Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Which came first, consciousness or the brain? People Serge Patlavskiy Today at 12:17 PM To Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Message body - Rudy Tanzi on June 25, 2017 wrote: >Self-awareness is species specific and highly variable. . [S.P.] But what does the term "self-awareness" stand for? I assume that Self always exists as being dissociated into self-subject and self-object. When applying a system of AS-DIS-DEC models, the initial Whole{Self} -- the element of AS-model, dissociates with formation of a chain of wholes: the whole{self-subject} and the whole{self-object} -- the elements of the same DIS-model. (For details on the system of AS-DIS-DEC models see my post on June 22; in case you have missed it, I attach it below). In a chain, a self-subject is a complex system which has a lower value of its entropic characteristic. . So, self-awareness takes place when self-subject makes sense of the self-object, and its mechanism is universal for all the organisms. In so doing, the self-object is being considered by self-subject on a par with any other "external" objects. A man (as a self-subject) may even quarrel with oneself (as a self-object). The inner dialog (or, talking to oneself), which we all sometimes experience, takes place because of interaction between self-subject and self-object too.  . Sometimes, when holding the inner dialog, a man swops places, and by "self-subject" he considers the CEO of some company -- he tries to foresee which questions the CEO could ask him tomorrow when deciding on his possible appointment for a job in a company. In so doing, a man plays the role of a self-object. . [Rudy Tanzi] wrote: > A cat does not recognize itself in the mirror, but will recognize  >its own scent rubbed off onto the mirror frame. . [S.P.] This fact tells not about specificity of the mechanisms of self-awareness, but about different ways in which consciousness creates information (or, a model of the world) for the bearer of consciousness. So, consciousness can create new information  . 1) by processing exclusively the input of physical sensory signals -- in this case the constructed model of the outer world is mostly adequate; 2) by partly processing the input of physical sensory signals PLUS by filling up the shortage of input by processing the formerly memorized elements of experience -- in result we get what we call "an illusion"; 3) by processing exclusively the formerly memorized elements of experience -- in result we may get what we call "a hallucination". . Every distinct model that consciousness creates must be a whole complex system. (Any element of experience, any new concept, any new knowledge, any new information, any new feeling, etc., if they do take place, they must step out as whole complex systems.) That is why, in case of shortage of sufficient input of physical sensory signals, our consciousness tries to enable wholeness at any cost, even when the enabling of wholeness would require consciousness to do "tricks" in result of which we receive illusions and hallucinations.  . Also, as I assume, consciousness keeps under control all the physiological processes in the organism. So, in case one sense organ becomes impaired, the other sense organs become exacerbated. That is why the congenitally blind person has his other sense organs abnormally sensitive. Therefore, if some cat's sense organs are not good, its other sense organs are more evolved. In either case, whatever quality of sense organs the different (healthy) organisms may have, every given organism, to stay alive, must have the model of the world of required adequacy.  . [Rudy Tanzi] wrote: >Alzheimer's eventually robs one of self-awareness by removing > the ability to place sensory information in context with time and  >space, i.e. impaired integration. . [S.P.] Sorry, but there is nothing like "sensory information". The sense organs do not yield information themselves. It is consciousness that creates information for the organism in three ways (see above). So, the causes of Alzheimer disease are a bit different. The different causes require different ways of curing. . With respect, Serge Patlavskiy From: Rudy Tanzi To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:02 AM Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Which came first, consciousness or the brain? Self-awareness is species specific and highly variable. A cat does not recognize itself in the mirror, but will recognize its own scent rubbed off onto the mirror frame. Bacteria are attracted only to chemo-attractants that are like those released by itself. Alzheimer's eventually robs one of self-awareness by removing the ability to place sensory information in context with time and space, i.e. impaired integration.  So, self-awareness is varied in nature and fragile over time.  Sent from Rudy's iPhone  Вірусів немає. www.avast.com Sadhu_Sanga-post2_22-06-2017 .txt