Re: KSRAO, RE: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: Consciousness People Serge Patlavskiy Today at 2:52 PM To Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Message body - Siegfried Bleher on June 25, 2017 wrote: > Would you please explain: > >1. how are you deciding on degree of complexity—i.e. do you  >consider the H-atom ‘complex’ even though it is integrable? . [S.P.] First. The term "complex system" stands for a single concept. It is not "a system" that is "complex". It is just a name. For example, if there is a person named John Longnose, it is just a name -- it does not mean that it is John who has got a long nose.  . Second. My explanatory framework has a level-by-level or floor-by-floor structure (I have mentioned about this fact many times; for details, see the attached html documents). I mean, that on a first floor I talk about "whole", "complex system", and so on. But when I reach the fourth floor, I introduce the integrated information system (or IIS for short), and instead of "whole{object of study}" or "system{object of study}" I use the notation "the IIS{object of study}" with all that such a notation implies. And only then I will be able to talk about the degrees of complexity of integrated information systems (for details, see http://generaltheory.webs.com/ElaborNewParadigm.pdf  Figure 12). . So, a "complex system" -- it is like "some man" who can only be said to be existent, but the IIS -- it is like a concrete man who has got a name, a passport, a set of rights and obligations, a medical insurance, a credit card, and other concrete features and attributes. . But, being on the lower floors, I may consider, what I call, existential condition. So, I hold that any entity, if it exists, it must be formalizable as a complex system which describes necessarily and simultaneously by 1-st, 2-nd, and 3-rd characteristics which pertain to activity of informational, material and energetic factors correspondingly. In this sense, any existent entity (the H-atom including) is irreducibly complex. Here, by "irreducible complexity" I mean a minimally required complexity necessary for existence of this entity -- namely, I mean describability by three characteristics simultaneously. . So, the H-atom, in fact, is not just a material object. First of all, it is an existent entity, and, in virtue of being existent, it must be formalizable as a system{H-atom} which also describes by the mentioned above three characteristics. However, in Physics/Chemistry we may safely ignore the activity of informational factor and consider the H-atom just as a material object. But, we cannot ignore the activity of informational factor in case we consider the system{living organism}. . [Siegfried Bleher] wrote: > 2. Are you using a different method of evaluating complexity  >than one of the many kinds of existent measures such as  >thermodynamic entropy, or Kolmogorov (dynamical) entropy? . [S.P.] I use my own concept of "entropy" which differs from the Boltzmann one. My entropy is always subject-dependent. I dwell on this subject in details in my post on May 1, 2017 (in case you have missed it, I attach it below). . Kindly, Serge Patlavskiy . PS. I would much like to know your opinion concerning my post on June 11 -- it is a reply to your post. In case you have missed it, I attach it below as well for your convenience. From: Siegfried Bleher To: "Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com" Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 2:28 AM Subject: RE: KSRAO, RE: [Sadhu Sanga] RE: Consciousness Dear Serge,   You have stated:   “The case is that the overall (or entropic) state of a complex system (like an atom) depends equally on the activity of three factors simultaneously: on informational factor, on material factor, and on energetic factor. If the overall (or entropic) state of a complex system would depend ONLY on the activity of energetic factor, the complex system would absorb/release energy in a continuous manner.”   Would you please explain:   how are you deciding on degree of complexity—i.e. do you consider the H-atom ‘complex’ even though it is integrable? Are you using a different method of evaluating complexity than one of the many kinds of existent measures such as thermodynamic entropy, or Kolmogorov (dynamical) entropy?   Best wishes,   Siegfried Вірусів немає. www.avast.com 4 AttachmentsView allDownload all jcs-online-post_15600 .html jcs-online-post_15621 .html Sadhu_Sanga-post2_1-05-2017 .txt Sadhu_Sanga-post4_11-06-2017 .txt