Churchill and Anglo-French union
Colin Randall
www.francesalut.com">Salut!</a>, in response to a whimsical posting I
entitled The Fall of London, that WC's offer of full union between
Britain and France, made as the French government neared capitulation
to the Nazi in 1940, was fully documented in the thrid volume of his
Second World War.
Is is not also the case that he offered De Valera a united Ireland in
return for Allied access to Irish ports? I read this in a book on
Irish history some years ago but can no longer locate the reference. I
am sure there are many subscribers to this forum who will know the
answer immediately, and I apologise for my own ignorancewith regard to
the detail.
Keith Leonard
their ports during WWII?
Anthony Calabrese
Yes they did. The Irish government was afraid that were afraid that Britain would lose the war, and they did not want to assist the losing side. Also, given the depth of anti-British feeling in Ireland, it was possible that such a concession could have lead to civil disturbance in Ireland.
Ireland was officially neutral, and Eamon de Valera even sent condolences to the German embassy on Hitler's death. But there is neutral and there is "neutral" and Irish neutrality did give Germany some cause for complaint. During the Belfast Blitz, the Irish government sent emergency workers to help fight fires caused by Germany bombing of the Belfast docks. German airmen downed in Ireland were usually held while a surprising number of downed Allied airmen "escaped".
A large number of Irish military men went AWOL during the war and joined the Allied militaries, and many Irish civilians also joined the war effort. I understand that the Irish military faced a severe manpower shortage during the war for that reason. This also lead to often citied, but never seen, headline in an Irish newspaper stating that an Irish sailor killed when the Hood sank was "killed in a boating accident."
From: "Keith Leonard" <kthle...@cox.net>
Reply-To: Church...@googlegroups.com
To: <Church...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Churchill and Anglo-French union
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:58:51 -0400
Alex Calvo
Anthony Calabrese <amcal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today.
Colin Randall
this from Philip Howells, a contributor to my own site http://www.francesalut.com
Because there's no index to my edition of Churchill's Second World War
I regret
I cannot claim that this is the absolute sum of my research - however
it may
help.......................
In a message to Roosevelt on 8th December 1940, section 12.4 Churchill
refers to
the need for the USA to pressure the Irish in the US to allow the UK
access to
Irish ports and airports to avoid them being forcibly grabbed by the
Germans.
His second paragraph reads:
"His Majesty's Government would of course take the most effective
measures
beforehand to protect Ireland if Irish action exposed it to German
attack. It
is not possible for us to compel the people of Northern Ireland
against their
wishes to leave the United Kingdom and join Southern Ireland. But I
do not
doubt that if the Government of Eire would show its solidarity with
the
democracies of the English-speaking world at this crisis a Council for
Defence
of all Ireland could be set up out of which the unity of the island
would
probably in some form or other emerge after the war"
Although I can find no earlier reference to the matter it is clear
that someone
had suggested union of Ireland as a quid pro quo for the bases but it
doesn't
say whether it was us or the Irish. However, Churchill's phrasing
suggests that
the proposal wasn't his - hardly surprising given his earlier
history. You
might agree with me that the basis for his suggestion that unity my
emerge from
a Council for the Defence is somewhat optimistic, but I suppose given
the
situation worth a go.
On Jun 21, 6:45 pm, Alex Calvo <alex_calv...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I seem to remember having read, please correct me if I am wrong, that Ireland also allowed allied airplanes to fly over a portion of its territory adjoining Ulster so that they could save some time. I would say this referred to anti-submarine aircraft.
>
> Anthony Calabrese <amcalabr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes they did. The Irish government was afraid that were afraid that Britain would lose the war, and they did not want to assist the losing side. Also, given the depth of anti-British feeling in Ireland, it was possible that such a concession could have lead to civil disturbance in Ireland.
> Ireland was officially neutral, and Eamon de Valera even sent condolences to the German embassy on Hitler's death. But there is neutral and there is "neutral" and Irish neutrality did give Germany some cause for complaint. During the Belfast Blitz, the Irish government sent emergency workers to help fight fires caused by Germany bombing of the Belfast docks. German airmen downed in Ireland were usually held while a surprising number of downed Allied airmen "escaped".
> A large number of Irish military men went AWOL during the war and joined the Allied militaries, and many Irish civilians also joined the war effort. I understand that the Irish military faced a severe manpower shortage during the war for that reason. This also lead to often citied, but never seen, headline in an Irish newspaper stating that an Irish sailor killed when the Hood sank was "killed in a boating accident."
>
> ---------------------------------
> From: "Keith Leonard" <kthleon...@cox.net>
> Reply-To: Church...@googlegroups.com
> To: <Church...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [ChurchillChat] Re: Churchill and Anglo-French union
> Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:58:51 -0400
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >To anyone who can answer: Did Ireland, in fact refuse the British access to
> >their ports during WWII?
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Church...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Church...@googlegroups.com]
> >On Behalf Of Colin Randall
> >Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:07 AM
> >To: ChurchillChat
> >Subject: [ChurchillChat] Churchill and Anglo-French union
>
> >Someone pointed out today at my site <a href="http://
> >www.francesalut.com">Salut!</a>, in response to a whimsical posting I
> >entitled The Fall of London, that WC's offer of full union between
> >Britain and France, made as the French government neared capitulation
> >to the Nazi in 1940, was fully documented in the thrid volume of his
> >Second World War.
>
> >Is is not also the case that he offered De Valera a united Ireland in
> >return for Allied access to Irish ports? I read this in a book on
> >Irish history some years ago but can no longer locate the reference. I
> >am sure there are many subscribers to this forum who will know the
> >answer immediately, and I apologise for my own ignorancewith regard to
> >the detail.
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your freeaccount today.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -