BM's vision of casteless society
Abhijit K
- abhijit
On 3/24/07, Gopal Krishna <gopalkrishna.miss...@gmail.com> wrote:
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
> Dear all,
> since very beginning, we have put forward ideal of casteless society on
> our site. 1.5 months ago, casteist titles were put on website and despite
> repeated requests they were not removed : for more than 1.5 months, appeal
> of "we request all Indians to drop casteist titles" and casteist titles were
> present together on our site, making a mockery of the cause, but appearing
> as nothing to insensitive members of website team.
> ref: http://www.bharatudaymission.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&ta...
> http://www.bharatudaymission.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&ta...
> & http://www.bharatudaymission.org/site/index.php?option=com_content&ta...
> so many casteist titles have been put up and website team removed those
> ideology on casteless society, where we asked for removing casteist titles
> and not doing marriage on basis of caste: it is work by website team alone
> without consultation with const. team or national council/executive: it is a
> glaring instance of present website team's lack of accountability vis-a-vis
> casteless vision, which is part of core ideology.
> my support to BM is not unconditional and blind; it will be there till BM
> does follow the path of truth. So, please first resolve this issue of
> casteless vision on const. team or national council/executive and whether we
> should allow casteist titles in names/emails in official comm. channels.
> Only after that the question of monetary support or even continuance in the
> organization can arise: on my part, I will never be part of any political
> party or NGO, which is not totally committed to a casteless vision: this is
> personal, unchangeable convictions based on 3000-old history of caste-system
> and its legacy of untouchability, backwardness and social disintegration of
> millenia. And I feel ashamed to see such ridicule of casteless society
> vision in such an early phase of BM.
> A glorious defeat on path of ideals is infinitely better than inglorious
> compromise with ideals. So, no compromise on this issue: either destroy this
> vision of casteless society completely or make an official policy to
> disallow casteist titles in names/email-ids and not accepting caste-system
> in any form, but please don't make a joke of the cause by saying something
> else and doing something else: let this issue be resolved democratically on
> appropriate forum be it constitution group/national council/executive. Till
> this issue is resolved, I absolve myself from any financial and other
> commitments (joining fulltime in 2008, time etc.) to BM and will recommit to
> this cause only after the original, casteless vision is respected totally. I
> am sending this to future fulltime group also because, honestly speaking, my
> commitment to joining fulltime in 2008 depends on this question and I want
> to maintain honesty with other comrades in future fulltime group: and yes,
> this has been done by me after last 2 months of repeated mails to website
> team and other members: so I have been forced to put this question in
> wide-open whether BM's original commitment to casteless vision has been
> changed now. Also, by seeing how casteist titles have been used by almost
> all senior members in their names and email-ids in BM, it is a grave
> question now whether we really aim for a casteless society: i accept my
> political defeat for not training members in such ideals despite being the
> leader of this cause since beginning, but it is not moral defeat, because I
> can always walk alone for sake of ideals, always!
> love and regards,
> Gopal
> ps: I have no problem even if I am left alone on this issue in entire BM:
> conscience will give strength to march alone.
Abhijit K
From: Rishikesh <rishikesh.miss...@gmail.com>
Date: Mar 24, 2007 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [BM_futurefulltime] Re: NetGeometry status
To: BM_futurefullt...@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Abhijit K <abhiji...@gmail.com>, Ram Ji Tripathi <
ramji.miss...@gmail.com>, Amit Pandey <pandey.miss...@gmail.com>,
Saurabh
Bharat <saurabh.miss...@gmail.com>
I support Gopal's view that BM should always be 100% commited to
casteless
society. In fact this philosophy should and is extended to all kinds
of
differentiation among human beings. We should not accpet any society
which
differentiates people and then based on differentiation do the
injustices
with some or more people. This philosophy extends to question of
class,
gender and religion and any other such parameter. I also endorse the
view
that 'be the change you want to see'.
But till such society does not realize, let us strive. By separating
from
existing society how can one create new society. We have to work in
this
society only for any transformation we vision. I believe all people
who
joined BM have good intentions, may be their commitments are
different. So
distancing from such crowd does not make sense to me at least.
Also a question for Gopal: Whether your 2008 commiment is for society
or BM?
Love and Regards,
Rishikesh
Abhijit K
Abhijit K
BM. The
views expressed should not be seen in the context of any of my current
responsibilities. I'll put my views to NC/NE and BM_Constitution in an
appropriate manner. I'm writing this mail in my capacity as a BM
volunteer
to all other BM volunteers).
Dear Brother Gopal,
I can understand your rage at the instance. As you know, I had joined
BM
primarily because the vision of casteless society was something that
I also
always dreamed of. I can't forget your valuable contributions while
making
the policy on Casteism on BM_PolicyResearch and as you know, those
were
perhaps the one of the most memorable discussions we ever had.
I gave up my surname and my caste quite long time ago; and I feel
happy that
people in BM atleast don't know me at all by my surname.
Nevertheless: I must try to tell you that that "force" is not going to
be
the right way, neither your or me disassociating with the organization
is
going to help us or the organization.
The reality in BM is a reflection of the reality of the society,
nothing
else. People have different views on different issues -- people in BM
have
come together on one or the other issue which they found appealing.
Not
necessarily everyone joined on the Casteism issue. What I see is
common to
all of us is the will to do something good for our country.
The controversy on Reservations and the stand that most of the people
took
tells me only one thing: Members in BM are mostly ignorant or unaware
of the
realities of life on the other side of the fence -- and this side of
the
fence, i.e. what BM is composed of today -- is a so-called-high-caste
bastion !!
I am sure that if people are not following our vision of a casteless
society, it is not because they strongly believe in it, but because
they
have not realised the immense harm that it has done to our social
fabric.
The solution to this problem does not lie in you giving up your
commitments,
or not supporting BM but we taking up the cause together and trying to
convince people of our vision. Believe me, if we can't do it inside BM
first, we can't do it anywhere!
Some people have already changed their minds. Saurabh writes his name
as
"Saurabh Bharat", Ravikant ji does not mention his surname anymore and
there
are quite a lot of examples. Yes, there are lot of members who don't
follow
it, in fact there are members whose "orkut profiles" if you scan,
you'll
find that they do belong to "casteist communities". However that does
not
mean that such people are not honest about their intentions of doing
good. I
believe it is just that they have not understood the EVIL that the
caste
system has been.
Lets fight brother, lets fight. That is the only way. Lets change
people's
minds. I resolve that i'll not quite BM but keep fighting inside to
change
people's view!
Jai Hind.
Abhijit K
Abhijit K
National Executive.
Being responsible for administration, I'm also responsible for the
functioning of the Website team.
I'd like to inform everyone, that the views of Gopal ji were always
listened to and conveyed to website team members.
Since BM does not have a "defined policy" or a "constitutional rule"
which will mandate anyone to take the same stance w.r.t. the casteist-
titles, it is not "mandatory by rule" to act according to what Gopal
ji has said.
Neverthless, website team members have at times shown their commitment
towards BM's vision of a casteless society. They also have been
working hard to implement numerous suggestions that they receive from
all over. If anything has not happened within expected time, I, as JS-
admin, should be held responsible for the work and not them.
BM's constitution has also recognised the vision of a casteless
society, as part of Core ideology and it is unchangeable in nature.
However the implementation of that provision, is something in the
realm of Policy Making and Executive's responsibility. Hence it will
be discussed in the appropriate forums (i.e. BM_constitution or NC/NE)
and a decision will be taken.
- Abhijit K, National Executive member.
Till then (writing as a BM volunteer) I'd request Gopal ji to please
continue educating members about the evil that the caste system is,
why casteist-surnames have to be given up, and why eradication of the
caste-system is the only way for true social equality; and I'll also
continue doing so as a BM volunteer !
Regards,
Abhijit K
Pune chapter member.
Abhijit K
http://gopalkrishna.mission.googlepages.com/BharatUdayMissionCasteismPolicy.doc
(This one was prepared by the BM_PolicyResearch group, with major contributions by myself and Gopal ji).
http://gopalkrishna-mission.blogspot.com/2007/03/join-glorious-march-to-caste-free-india.html
(This one is from Gopal ji's blog)
Regards,
Abhijit K
rishi
First of all, I want to make it clear that I am not supporting
casteism.
I have gone through some of Mr.Gopal's email in the past and I have
a high regard for him. I would like to convey the following message
to him and request him not to move away from BM.
The moment ideal is enforced, the ideality is lost however high the
ideal may be.
Let us work with commonalities, and keep aside the differences.
There are less number of people in castes than in religions.
So, the problem due to religion clash is more than due to caste.
So, can anyone ask to convert all religious names into a neutral one?
Let there be a room for people to change.
I guess some of the surnames identify that they are brothers and
sisters and might be used for not marrying a person with the same
surname
for health related reasons.
I have not had a chance to go through all BM postings. Please correct
me if I am wrong.
Regards,
Rishi.
vikram Bhat
Vandemaatram,
I am really proud that brothers Gopal and Abhijit have
taken initiative to make our country cast free
society.
From today I join this new thinking and request all
friends from today call me Vikram Bharat, on web page
my name should be changed ASAP. I will change my name
officially at ASAP.
Dear friends "let us drop cast and build nation"
Jai Hind
With Love and Care
Vikram Bharat
> --
> Abhijit A. Meenakshi
> About my name:
> www.geocities.com/abhijit1303/aboutname.txt
> www.bharatudaymission.org
>
>
>
>
'Those who condemn politics to be the last resort of a scoundrel are bound
to be ruled by scoundrels' - Plato
"We have only one passion,
The rise of a Great Nation."
http://2ndfreedomstruggle.blogspot.com
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p
I am always fond of the title "Pillai", it means the son; the famous
Tamil movie "Engal Veetu Pillai", "Our Son" who serves the nation,
country, village etc... in that sens I am fond of this title
Pillai does not caste any aspiration on castesim as I have understood;
even our caste name, easily helped me to identify where from we came
from and when I was in Nashi, I used to say we were tribes here once
upon a time; my mothers name is anjalai which goes very close to
anjani, the mother of anuman..
I understand castesim is nothing diffrent from groupsim; even the way
we form groups engineers, doctors, or even mechanical and electrial
engineers have such use to that extend in identifying; perhaps, the
problems by over doing or mis-using is condemnable
while at school, our school has facility for anyone to become a
brahman; our teachers advised me not to go for as I would lose the
education benefits available to me; this is the problem; caste has
been a tool for easy identification so far the backward people; have
we done the uplifting all the basckward and most backward and the lot,
both in terms of social and economical; once a up-rising socity is
built up, the cast system on its own will die out, a new system of
groupisDear All,
I am always fond of the title "Pillai", it means the son; the famous
Tamil moveie "Engal Veetu Pillai", "Our Son" who serves the nation,
country, village etc...
Pillai does not case any aspiration on castesim as I have understood;
even our caste name, easily helped me to identify where from we came
from and when I was in Nashi, I used to say we were tribes here..
I understand castesim is nothing diffrent from groupsim; even the way
we form groups engineers, doctors, or even mechanical and electrial
engineers have such use to that extend in identifying; perhaps, the
problems by over doing or mis-using is condemnable
while at school, our school has facility for anyone to become a
brahman; our teachers advised me not to go for as I would lose the
education benefits available to me; this is the problem; caste has
been a tool for easy identification so far the backward people; have
we done the uplifting all the basckward and most backward and the lot,
both in terms of social and economicalm will become an order of the
day
my suggestion is that we eradicate the evils of groupism and casteism;
then our efforts will result in better outcomes.
A Gandhian asked me why do I still have a caste indicator, although a
title name , attached to me email, it was interesting that the sign-up
facilitates such names based on second and third names..
Apart from the above, the other possibility is inter caste marriages
in a very large scale should take place , even across States
It was bit strange that yesterday I had been to tribes habitations
very close to Chennai. I happened to ask them how do they identify
that a person is from their tribe; they are almost lost in identifying
them that any new person can creep in to take advantage of the Tribe
concessions; may be for this reason, officers are not easily declaring
a person as a Tribe
As I hailed from a rural place, I know that people can migrate from
one community to other, we have pro-verbs also to indicate.
Now, BM, will it become another community of people or caste of people
or group of people will depend how you freely network other people
outside BM; I find already BM has creted some barriers in the name of
organizational set-up; it will be a struggle for members of the group
to stay away from groupism or casteism; by the by, how many female
members are there in BM group; we should try to have atleast 40%
FEMALES, to make any difference; we should also have appreciable youth
in the group, in fact, I think so , except for few like me
With warm regards,
Puru
Abhijit K
I would like to comment on some of the issues that you have raised.
On 3/28/07, p <purushotha...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
> I am always fond of the title "Pillai", it means the son; the famous
> Tamil movie "Engal Veetu Pillai", "Our Son" who serves the nation,
> country, village etc... in that sens I am fond of this title
Thats good.
>
> Pillai does not caste any aspiration on castesim as I have understood;
> even our caste name, easily helped me to identify where from we came
> from and when I was in Nashi, I used to say we were tribes here once
> upon a time; my mothers name is anjalai which goes very close to
> anjani, the mother of anuman..
>
I have no idea about the origin and meaning of "pillai" since I am
from maharashtra, may be some other people from southern states can
throw more light on that.
> I understand castesim is nothing diffrent from groupsim; even the way
> we form groups engineers, doctors, or even mechanical and electrial
> engineers have such use to that extend in identifying; perhaps, the
> problems by over doing or mis-using is condemnable
>
That is where I disagree.
Caste system is a "social hierarchy" based on "BIRTH" !!!. Somebody is
labeled a caste, by birth.. and unlike religion which can be changed..
caste is forever.. because it is not about "way of life" ... but a
person's place in the societal hierarchy !!
I don't see any rational argument that can refute the above said
thing. Anything that discriminates persons as "lower and higher" by
birth is inhuman.
Other types of groupism are created by people by their own deeds. So
casteism is a different issue.
> while at school, our school has facility for anyone to become a
> brahman; our teachers advised me not to go for as I would lose the
> education benefits available to me; this is the problem; caste has
> been a tool for easy identification so far the backward people; have
I dont understand you. Do u mean that only backward castes use the
caste. You are SO WRONG. Perhaps you were born in a
so-called-high-caste .. so no so-called-upper-caste person ever
bothered to pain you on that ! ...
Dear brother, the country is full of people taking PRIDE in the caste
and KILLING people in the name of caste.
Caste is an evil that has haunted this country for ages.
We are set to fight this evil !
> we done the uplifting all the basckward and most backward and the lot,
> both in terms of social and economical; once a up-rising socity is
> built up, the cast system on its own will die out, a new system of
> groupis
I dont agree here either.
Yes, profession based division of society will exist.. but that will
be by choice.. people can choose their professions in an equal
opportuniteis society... but CASTE, by definition is "by birth".
The word "caste" comes from portuguese word "casta" which means lineage !!
>
> my suggestion is that we eradicate the evils of groupism and casteism;
> then our efforts will result in better outcomes.
well taken. Lets start with the birth based casteism first.
> A Gandhian asked me why do I still have a caste indicator, although a
> title name , attached to me email, it was interesting that the sign-up
> facilitates such names based on second and third names..
Apart from the above, the other possibility is inter caste marriages
> in a very large scale should take place , even across States
YES.
BUt they should not be called "inter-caste" marriages. They should be
called "casteless" marriages !
"inter-caste" indicates "acceptance" of caste. We, in BM must not
accept caste, as it is against our core ideology and against humanity.
> It was bit strange that yesterday I had been to tribes habitations
> very close to Chennai. I happened to ask them how do they identify
> that a person is from their tribe; they are almost lost in identifying
> them that any new person can creep in to take advantage of the Tribe
> concessions; may be for this reason, officers are not easily declaring
> a person as a Tribe
> As I hailed from a rural place, I know that people can migrate from
> one community to other, we have pro-verbs also to indicate.
> Now, BM, will it become another community of people or caste of people
> or group of people will depend how you freely network other people
> outside BM; I find already BM has creted some barriers in the name of
> organizational set-up; it will be a struggle for members of the group
> to stay away from groupism or casteism; by the by, how many female
I'm sorry, I do not understand you here. May be you can explain it better.
> members are there in BM group; we should try to have atleast 40%
> FEMALES, to make any difference; we should also have appreciable youth
> in the group, in fact, I think so , except for few like me
Hmm... Lets not differentiate. Lets welcome all people in BM.. and
ideally we will have % of women proportional to india's sex ratio
(atleast !) ..
regards,
abhijit k
pune.
p
take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and seeks brahamam,
it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if you think one gets
by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the initiation naturally
if his/her parents have inquested
I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as nothing but
aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the outset, I do not go
for caste based ills
To be very frank, at school, in gurukul, we even do not know much
about others caste; we did not have the perils of outside world
What helped me most is the atman concept; this is much more superior
concept than what is generally understood of brahaman; it is the end
of a search of a saint's saying
Abijit, we may not differ, although we use different words/styles
Ps:
there was a senior friend whose name was maitra from Bengal, I think
maitra means son or the like; his face was so familiar to me(including
mannerism), I thought, their ancestors would have migrated towards
north-east and ours towards south-east
Only recently, one of my theories got defeated: I have been think that
we giggle if someone touches the sides of our abdomen, because we know
we are no longer monekys; only monkey babies hold that part to stick
to its mothers while walking and jumping! So, next time, if somebody
says his caste, may be we will laugh ( I saw few weeks back a chimp
giggling when another chimp was tickling the sides of its abdomen)!
On Apr 4, 12:04 am, "Abhijit K" <abhiji...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Puru,
>
> I would like to comment on some of the issues that you have raised.
>
Milind Kotwal
Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2.
Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are
actions can just be symbolic.
Milind
Vinay Yadav
> Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2.
> Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are
> actions can just be symbolic.
I am Vinay Yadav, and i come under OBC, and have been classified as EBC
(Econimical Backward Class) - though my father is a senior scientist in
IIT, and i run my own software business.
The backward classes has been fed with hatred against upper cast people
over these years. Dr Ambedkar fought for their rights - but present day
leaders are distorting his views/thoughts and presenting in a very
negative manner.
The most educated backward class people are more negative minded than
the uneducated backwards.
The foolish reason given " You, Brahmin tortured us for 4000 years, now
its our turn" - Recently when SC stayed OBC quota case, on a program in
Aaj Tak, some backward leader uttered this same. A brahmin from poor
family asked a question "Being from Brahmin family, my father is a poor
farmer, how do i progress" - the answer was "You brahmin destroyed us
for 4000 years, this is results of that"
I did not know this caste system till i was in 10th. While filling the
form for board exam - i was asked what caste i belong - SC/SC/general. I
was not aware of this - i went home asked dad as what was that and how
this is going to matter in my education. It was tough for me digest
this. but i had to.
If we need to root out this, these steps should be taken:
1) Free education till 12th (at tax payer's expense)
2) Remove the option for Caste/Religion from education forms/bank
forms/company forms/eveywhere
Saying is always easiest option, than doing - i have been thinking as
how can this be achieved - but for it seems impossible task.
Any thoughts?
--
Regards
Vinay
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BhanuPrakash Singh
Caste system is perpetuated by various laws of the
country such as caste based reservation, religion
based special laws ect.. The leadership enforces the
divisios for votes and to rule the country. There is
crying need to have uniform law for all citizens
irrespective of caste, religion, economic status.
Bhanuprakash singh
Bhanuprakash Singh, B.E.(Hons.),FIE(India)
Chief Mechanical Engineer(Retd.)
Indian Railways,
H 243,Bagmugalia Extension,Laharpur
Bhopal M.P.
Phone 0091755 2480886
mob 0091 9425600275
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satya
gopalkrish...@gmail.com
Caste-free vision is core ideology of the Mission. SInce many members
interpret it differently than what we expect, so a proposal to put
following clause in "Core Ideology" has been forwarded and is getting
discussed presently in const. group. The clause is :
1. We are committed to the vision of caste-free India, an India where
the very word caste will cease to exist. To accomplish this, we stand
for effacing all caste-based identity in any form including caste-
based surnames, caste-based colony names, caste-based organizations
and caste-based reservation through every possible non-violent, moral
means.
So, we need to remove every caste-based identity externally and bring
internal change in mindset that our only caste is humanity. Why is
removing caste-based titles more than a symbol ? Because, the society
has thrust caste-based titles upon us and our caste is recognised by
society through these titles irrespective of our negation of caste .
So, dropping caste-titles from name is a very crucial way to deal with
the conditioning of society, which identitifes a caste through a
particular surname.
please see more reflection on dropping casteist surnames here:
http://gopalkrishna-mission.blogspot.com/2007/03/join-glorious-march-to-caste-free-india.html
Lastly, I would quote Swami Vivekananda: I believe that the Satya Yuga
(Golden Age) will come when there will be one caste, one Veda, and
peace and harmony. This idea of Satya Yuga is what would revivify
India. Believe it. - Swami Vivekananda.
What would be that one caste in Golden India? Of course, the caste of
humanity.
Let us drop all caste-based titles in our names, never give such
titles to our offsprings and proclaim boldly to one and all that our
only caste is the caste of humanity.
Jai Hind
Gopal
ps: for more detailed thoughts, plz read:
http://gopalkrishna.mission.googlepages.com/BharatUdayMissionCasteismPolicy.doc
On Apr 13, 1:28 am, satya <saty...@gmail.com> wrote:
> very true... totally agree ... but would to add onthing more... 3. mind set
> of people
>
> On 4/13/07, Milind Kotwal <milind.kot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dear friends,
>
> > Caste system can only be broken by 1. Inter-caste marriages, and 2.
> > Improvement in living standard across the social spectrum. All other are
> > actions can just be symbolic.
>
> > Milind
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BM_dis...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> > BM_dis...@googlegroups.com]
> > On Behalf Of p
> > Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 7:52 PM
> > To: BM_discussion
> > Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM's vision of casteless society
>
> > Some additional thoughts
> > take it from me, a brahman is the one who thinks and seeks brahamam,
> > it is obtained by initiation and not by birth; if you think one gets
> > by brith it is not so, but by birth one gets the initiation naturally
> > if his/her parents have inquested
> > I see in abstract sense the meaning to caste as nothing but
> > aspirations of group-ism and its protocols; on the outset, I do not go
> > for caste based ills
>
> --
> "|| bRaHmAiVa sAtYaM ||"
Milind Kotwal
Dear Friends,
I am really worried about future of our country. If anybody says we are going to be super power it is nothing more than just wishful thinking.
Just take a overview of our situation at a broad level
1. We can not be super power with corrupt and inefficient government administration. Quality and effectiveness of administration is continuously on decline. Corruption and ineffectiveness are the only words that we can use to describe the government administration.
2. Just see quality of discussion and interactions in our legislative bodies across the country, incompetence of our representatives across all the bodies is what is clearly evident at gross level. We can not become super power with such poor quality of our representative bodies.
3. Barring a few respectable exceptions, judiciary can be managed. Go to any court of law barring a few, an insider will tell you about the people who have established contacts with the decision makers, how and at what price things can be managed.
4. Print and audio-visual media is already being controlled by business houses with their own vested interests in manipulating public opinion.
5. Our education system, including quality of teaching and administrative staff is deteriorating... This will result in deterioration of quality of manpower at a gross level.
6. Most of the business houses are managing ruling politicians, administrative officers, media with their money and manipulative power. They have little or no respect for law. With deterioration in law and order situation some of these houses are likely to become unconstitutional law makers themselves.
7. Regional forces are becoming more powerful in the absences of competent national leadership.
8. Naxalites and other groups aided by our adversaries across the border are becoming powerful and also forming alliances
9. Current leadership in all the political and social organizations appears to be totally unaware of developing scenario and are involved in totally unrelated activities…
Just there is no hope except for total overhaul and that at great price, situation has deteriorated beyond simple and straight forward solutions.
Let us not apply tincture iodine when the injury demands for life saving operation..
Think about it and let me know your views..
Milind Kotwal
-----Original Message-----
From: BM_dis...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:BM_dis...@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Vinay Yadav
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 12:00 PM
To: BM_dis...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [BM_discussion] Re: BM's vision of casteless society
Hi Milind,
Vignesh S K
even though the article is a bit outdate, the basic principles still are valid
p
One of an action approach is start from where you are aiming at our
goals. What is possible now. Say, I can not change my name, I can
alter my name by legal means; I can go for desirable names for offf-
springs, new borns.
Inspite of teh names, we can change our mind set. How to get over the
perils of such a bad system. One thing is policy and another thing is
practicing it.
We can also look into what benefit people derive keeping or in the
name of castes, starting from voter-bank... then provide alternatives
to them or restrict them if not viable.
BM can promote intercaste inter religious marriages all ending into
caste-less system; we can bring/force amendments in INDIAN
Constitution by suitable approaches; we may have to solve the issues
of concessions government give on caste baseed systems. One possible
solution is now to identify all the beneficiary families and group
them into categories based on social and economical status and remove
teh caste based identities for ever. The advantage of the above
grouping is that it can allow families ti migrate from one group into
another, which is not possible now. Ah, good idea! Say for example, I
can be fixed at social( health & education) 5: economical(assets) 6 in
a 10 point scale system of grouping. The tribes where I am working can
be booked as an average social 2; economical 0
then governments can only look into these ratings or groupings, then
caste names and ssytems would become useless
p
Abhijit K
I find that the solutions that you are proposing are
* meant for the educated and mainly urban population
* based on not having experienced any caste-based discrimination and humiliation yourself
* based on the assumption that "things will change on their own, without me doing anything".
Please read ahead.
Dear Friends,
One of an action approach is start from where you are aiming at our
goals. What is possible now. Say, I can not change my name, I can
alter my name by legal means; I can go for desirable names for offf-
springs, new borns.
That is a misconception. I have changed my name. Yes, people who knew me 4 years back know me by my surname (which is a casteist title) but people who knew me after that (including all bm members) do not know me at all by my surname. I can't help those earlier people, but slowly many among them have stopped calling me by my surname.
You can definitely change your name, notionally and legally too.
Ofcourse, one must not give their offsprings any casteist titles.... that is one of the fundamental principles of bm's core ideology.
Inspite of teh names, we can change our mind set. How to get over the
perils of such a bad system. One thing is policy and another thing is
practicing it.
mind-set and the practises can't be separated. They influence each other. Surnames are there everywhere in the world, but in India, they are a result of caste. It is only in India where we have casteist surname (and the root is in Manusmriti.. which asks people to bear their caste in their name.... brother.. what does Pillai indicate, please tell me.... it is not your family's name.. but your caste's )..
So when one has completely disowned the concept of caste, it must come with disowing all the things that come with the caste! ..
We can also look into what benefit people derive keeping or in the
name of castes, starting from voter-bank... then provide alternatives
to them or restrict them if not viable.
BM can promote intercaste inter religious marriages all ending into
caste-less system; we can bring/force amendments in INDIAN
The law recognises that even if it is an inter caste marriage, the offspring gets the caste of the father. Thus the caste and all social/legal benefits/disadvantages that come with it stay.
So inter-caste is not the right way, "caste-free" is the right way. Marriages should be done without consideration of caste, hence they must be "caste-free" and the result of the marriage should not lead to existence of caste in any respect.
Constitution by suitable approaches; we may have to solve the issues
of concessions government give on caste baseed systems. One possible
solution is now to identify all the beneficiary families and group
them into categories based on social and economical status and remove
teh caste based identities for ever. The advantage of the above
I dont understand how can we remove caste based identities without removing caste itself.
Please understand... Caste is, by definition, inequality by birth. Unless we do away with the notion of caste itself, we can't do away with the inequalities.
No reservations, perks can eliminate the social inequalities that caste creates. Hence we must aim at the root of the problem.
grouping is that it can allow families ti migrate from one group into
another, which is not possible now. Ah, good idea! Say for example, I
can be fixed at social( health & education) 5: economical(assets) 6 in
a 10 point scale system of grouping. The tribes where I am working can
be booked as an average social 2; economical 0
then governments can only look into these ratings or groupings, then
caste names and ssytems would become useless
Disagree. once again you are trying to eliminate it by indirect means... which can't be guaranteed... Selfish politicians will always keep burning the fire of social inequality ... we must attack at the root cause.. all those superficial numbers will not change the fact that some people consider themselves superior by birth ... and this fact will always be exploited by the selfish ... and always leave scope for the downtrodden to claim inequality...
The true equality can come only when we eliminate the caste system from all spheres of life..
- abhijit k
--
Abhijit Meenakshi
Abhijit K
Posting a policy-document on Casteism that was accepted by BM_PolicyResearch yahoogroup. It is the same document that Gopal ji has referred to.
Both documents have also been attached to this email.
References:
1. Rigveda http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10090.htm
2. Rigveda http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv09112.htm
3. A History of India – Vol I, Romila Thaper, Penguin Books
4. A History of India – Vol II, Percival Spear, Penguin Books
5. The Wonder that was India, A.L. Basham, Macmillan/Rupa & Company
6. Indian History, V.K. Agnihotri, Allied Publishers Limited
7. NCERT History textbooks, class XI and XII.
8. Material Culture and Social Formations in Ancient India, R.S. Sharma, Macmillan
9. Medieval India: Society, the Jagirdari Crisis and the Village, Satish Chandra, Macmillan
10. Self Respect Movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-respect_movement
11. Manusmruti http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm
12. http://www.hindubooks.org/sudheer_birodkar/hindu_history/castevedic.html
13. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste
14. Ramayana http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rama/index.htm
15. Mahabharata http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/maha/index.htm
16. Bhagvadgita http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/sbe08/index.htm
17. Stephen Knapp's Essay http://www.stephen-knapp.com/casteism.htm
18.Ambedkar.orgEssays http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/23.%20Essay%20on%20Untouchables%20and%20Untouchability_Social.htm#c05
19. Mahatma Phule http://www.unipune.ernet.in/chairs/mahatmaphule/lifework.htm
20. SNDP http://www.sndp.org/index.html
21. The Constitution of India, P. M. Bakshi, Universal Law Publishing
22. History of Reservations www.ambedkar.org/research/Bhagwandas.pdf
23. Mandal Commission http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandal_Commission
24. Indira Sawhney case http://ncbc.nic.in/OfficeMemorandum.pdf
25 Who is a Hindu?.http://hindu.org/
26. Constitution of India, Ministry of Law http://lawmin.nic.in/coi.htm
27. India 2006, Government of India Publication division
1. Perspective
Nature and Scope of this document
This document is part of the draft on casteism made for Bharat Uday Mission. The scope of this document is to give a historical and rational perspective on the evolution of caste system in India.
Casteism Today
Undoubtedly, the India of today stand divided into thousands of castes that proliferate across all the strata of society. Casteism, a system which assigns a social status to a person on the basis of birth carries with it history of humiliation, atrocities and divisions over divisions, of thousands of years.
The Caste System that exists, predominantly in the Hindu society, lays down a social hierarchical order wherein a person is categorized into a caste by birth, no matter whether she exhibits the characteristics that are expected, according to the Dharma-sutras, from a person of that caste. By definition [11] the caste system prohibits inter-dining and inter-caste marriages. The proliferation of the system is found less severely in city environments, where owing to the higher educational standards, economic compulsions arising out of basic needs and mixing of heterogeneous cultures has weakened the caste barriers. However in most of the villages of India, the system still holds strong and the society is almost fully divided into thousands of castes and sub-castes disallowing inter-caste marriages and inter-dining. Oppression of so-called lower castes by so-called upper castes is a routine phenomenon and instances of casteist violence, humiliation, abuse and social discrimination are being reported even today, from all over the country.
Jati Sabha, which are assemblies of people belonging to a particular caste, are found all over India and almost every caste has its own assembly. They publicly enjoin in efforts for upliftment of the particular caste and enjoy legal status.
Reservation policies of government, aimed at reducing the social inequalities have turned into bone of contention between castes, the so-called lower castes taking it for their right due to humiliation of thousands of years and the so-called upper castes feeling denial of equal opportunities. The story has other sides too. Some so-called lower castes, even after becoming educationally and economically far advanced are still taking advantages of safeguards meant to be for the backwards. However it is also true that the social discrimination that the so-called lower castes faced in the past, is nowhere nearer to being extinct. Nepotism and favoritism for one's caste are practiced by all the groups of the caste-system. The end result is nothing but growing hatred and divisions in the society.
Denial of equal social status and opportunities resulted in a large section of the so-called lower castes, under leadership of Dr Ambedkar getting converted to Buddhism. Conversions to other religions keep taking place even today and particularly in case of tribal people who belong to the lowest levels of the caste system. These conversions have caused tensions among different religious communities. Reports of forceful or deceitful conversions keep adding to the discontent.
Though, largely a feature of Hindu religion in India, casteism in various forms exists in other religions and in other countries also [12, 13].
Historical perspective
Note: The purpose of this section, is just to introduce the reader to some historical developments. History, being written by humans, is open to doubts and consensus on historical facts is difficult to achieve.
Rigveda is unanimously accepted to be the oldest treatise on Hindu religion. The "Purusa-sukta" hymn of Rigveda (10th mandala) mentions about the four "varnas" being born out of the mouth, arms, thighs and feet of the God [1]. However some historians have doubts over the 10th mandala itself and opine that the 1st and 10th mandala of Rigveda were added later and were not originally present [6].
Various other Hindu treatises like the Manu-smruti [11] and other Dharma-sutras describe the caste system and the responsibilities of each caste. Almost every ancient text mentions the caste system in some or the other context. The system has undergone various transformations with time and has evolved from being a profession-by-choice based system to a birth based system. The Rigveda itself contains hymns indicating the caste system not being birth based and profession being voluntary [2]. The Chaturya-Varna system as mentioned in the Rigveda can be taken similar to a Class based system that is claimed to have existed in all civilizations. With passage of time, the dominance of particular groups of society, inter-varna marriages leading to varna-sankar, assimilation of people from foreign groups created more divisions and gave rise to numerous castes and sub-casts. Ramayana [14] and particularly Mahabharata [15] contain numerous references to castes and the primacy of Brahmins in the system. The Mahabharata also has references to the fact of varna-sankara. Bhagvadgita [16] too contains references to caste system, however the various interpretations that [17] it leaves scope for might have helped the system assume its current form.
There is one more view about four varnas: Brahmin,
Vaishya, Kshatriya and Sudra. This view says that the varna system
was not a social system, it was a classification of human action
(Karma), but it degenerated in social system due to ignorance and due
to priestly class's manipulation of Vedas and other scriptures. As
per this interpretation, our sages divided all Karma (human action)
into 4 categories:
1)Kama: action on the plane of sense
pleasures
2)Artha: action on the plane of money/power
3)Dharma:
action on the plane of righteousness
4)Moksha: action on the plane
of Self-Realization or spirituality
Our sages said that all
our actions belong to these four categories and a same person belongs
to one such category at one time and in some other category in some
other time. When a person indulges in sense-pleasure (Kama), he is a
Sudra, when he work for power/money (Artha), he is a Vaishya , when
he work for righteousness (Dharma), like he opposes injustice, he is
a Kshatriya and when he works for Self-Realization or spiritual
purification, like when we do meditation or worship, we are Brahmin.
They further said that "Goal of human life to move towards
Kshatriya and Brahmin categories of action from Sudra and Vaishya
categories and finally to become 100% Brahmin". Many modern
saints and spiritual gurus of India subscribe to this view. With
time, however, the doctrine of deeds in one birth affecting the varna
in next birth and determination of varna by birth paved way for the
caste system. All these spiritual ideas were manipulated by crooked
priestly class into caste-system by profession and then further into
caste-system by birth.
With the advent of British rule and introduction to ideas of equality, the struggle for the upliftment of the so-called lower castes began in India and still continues today. A separate section on this topic gives the details. However a common feature of most of these struggles is that they ended up becoming anti-Brahmin struggles and not anti-casteism struggles.
That, the number of castes kept changing, itself is a proof that the system was never rigidly defined. Each of the four Varnas, including so-called Brahmins [18] kept undergoing divisions and still continues. Again, most of the ancient texts were passed down to generations as "shruti" and "smriti". This itself leaves space for raising doubts over their authenticity. Add to this the fact that these texts were written by the so-called upper caste people, claiming social superiority for themselves. Uncertainty over historical facts and given the ill effects it has on the society today, the issue of casteism is left to one's conscious and rational thinking to decide upon.
History of major struggles for upliftment of the downtrodden
Satya Shodhak Samaj [19], Maharashtra by Jyotiba Phule, 1873
Opposed to untouchability and Brahmin domination. Tried to uplift the so-called lower castes by educating them. Beliefs: Humans are great by their qualities. Incantations, penance, rituals, rebirth- do not have any reality. Bhat (Brahmins) or middlemen are not at all necessary for the worship of the Almighty.
Aravippuram Movement, Kerala and Shri Narayan Dharma Pratipalana Yogam (SNDP) [20] Movement by Shri Narayan Guru, 1888
Attacked Brahmin domination and promoted education for dalits. Demanded free entry of the people of lower castes to temples
Justice Party Movement, Tamilnadu by C.N Mudaliar, T.M. Nair and P Tyagaraja Chetti, 1915
Movement of intermediate castes, opposed to Brahmins
Depressed Classes welfare Institute, Bombay by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, 1924
Demanded constitutional safeguards for depressed.
Self-Respect Movement [10], Tamilnadu by E.V. Ramaswami Naicker, 1925
Anti-Brahmin and anti Hindu orthodoxy movement. Weddings without priests, forcible temple entry, total defiance of Hindu social laws. Criticized for creating communal disharmony to some extent.
Harijan Sevak Sangh, Pune by Mahatma Gandhi, 1932
Removal of untouchability and all social discriminations. Provided medical, educational facilities to untouchables.
Reservations - historical perspective [22]
The Poona-Pact signed between Gandhi and Ambedkar in 1932 resulted in constituencies being reserved, instead of having separate electorates, for dalits. Realizing the need for special safeguards for the upliftment of the oppressed classes, the constituent assembly made special provisions for them in the constitution itself. Untouchablity was abolished (Art 18) [21, 26]. By the Protection of Civil Rights Act of 1955, insulting, preaching and justifying untouchability was made a punishable offence. Reservation of Seats in the legislature for S.C. and S.Ts was provided by the constituent assembly itself (Art 330,332), though for a limited period. The period has been kept increasing by subsequent amendments. The constitution also enables the government to make special provisions for the socially backward classes and as a result, reservations for S.C and S.T.s have been secured for various opportunities.
The Mandal commission report [23] on reservations for backward classes affirmed the practice of reservations for OBCs and sparked a huge debate and protests. However its one of the major recommendations of neglecting the "creamy layer" was stuck down by the supreme court later in the Indira Sawhney case [24].
2. Policy
Nature and Scope of this document
This document is part of the draft on casteism made for Bharat Uday Mission. The scope of this document is to describe BM's vision on casteism and to draw policies for implementing our vision.
The Mission's vision and policy
BM is against any discrimination among human beings on basis of race, religion, caste, sex, and profession. Casteism is a system that assigns a relative upper/lower status to people on the basis of their birth to which they are associated forever, without a choice. Hence we stand opposed to casteism
BM cherishes the dream of a caste-free society where the word caste itself would have no meaning. We stand for renouncing castes and an equal opportunity based society that treats all humans equally. This forms a core part of BM's ideology and is not changeable in nature.
Action Plan
The Mission believes in making conscious efforts towards eradication of casteism and calls upon all its members to step forward and make their contribution towards the cause. BM will propagate and realize its vision only through non violent (both mental and physical) ways and persuasion.
The Mission urges all Indians to drop all titles that are indicative of their castes from their names and never to use them in the first place itself, in naming their offsprings. This will be the greatest victory against our psychological war against the evil of caste-system.
We expect all members of BM and in fact every Indian to honour BM's vision of casteless India We must use "so-called lower caste", "so-called upper castes", "so-called brahmins", "so-called dalits" and caste-free or casteless marriage instead of lower caste, upper caste, Brahmin, dalits and inter-caste marriages in all our speech and writings to emphasize that we negate the very concept of caste. In our vision of universal brotherhood, caste and caste-system have no place at all.
We also call upon everyone not to associate himself or herself with any Jati Sabha (caste-based organization) and also pursue people to abolish all such assemblies. After generating sufficient mass awareness and mass support for our vision of casteless India, BM will enact laws to abolish all casteist titles, caste-based colonies and caste-based assemblies (Jati Sabha)
In marriages, if caste is neglected, it will be a good step towards eradication of caste-system. Such marriages are not inter-caste marriages (as we negate the very concept of caste), but caste-free marriage.
We will spread awareness among the people about BM's vision of caste-free India in our public meetings, personal talks, through various media, motivating them to work for caste-free India, by abolishing casteist surnames, renaming colonies in non-casteist manner, by launching awareness campaign against caste-assemblies. We will follow truth and non-violence in our "Caste-free India" movements.
BM will focus on creating awareness among people about our vision through peaceful means, our social service and persuasion. We will try to arise the public opinion for abolishing caste system from all walks of life. After generating popular support, the way untouchablity was abolished, we will also enjoin ourselves to make efforts for enacting legal ways of abolishing casteism, necessity of using titles, disallowing caste-based colonies and renaming all caste-based colonies into "sectors and other non-casteist colonies" and abolishing caste-assemblies (Jati Sabha).
Considerations of caste and economic status are related to a sufficient extent. Our efforts at reducing the economic inequalities in the society will also be related to our efforts at establishing a true social equality.
Since we are against caste-system, we are against the current policy of reservations, which accepts the moral and social validity of caste and caste-system. Since we are against all casteist institutions, we are also against caste-based reservations. While keeping in mind our aim of casteless society, we will make a reservation policy based on economic and non-caste social parameters of backwardness which would certainly ensure that the benefits would reach not only the majority "so-called lower caste" people of today, but all the needy people. Thus we will try to ensure that the benefits reach not the affluent sections of the society, but the real poor and needy sections. A panel of experts will set up these parameters for reservation, when BM will come to power. But in long run, we aim to elevate our economically backward sections of the society in such a time-bound manner, that we finally do away with "reservation policy based on economic backwardness" also and the day, it will become possible to do so, will be one of the greatest day for our Mission, for our country and humanity.
We call upon all our
members and rather all Indians to bravely pronounce the renunciation
of their castes, surnames and declare openly and boldly "I
believe in casteless society and hence am free from the taint of
caste; I believe in innate oneness of humanity and hence, and do not
accept the concept of caste" and lead the society towards a
caste-free place through unflinching determination.
Vision of Casteless Society – A Dialogue
Q: What is the meaning
and importance of casteless society, as envisioned by the Mission?
A:
Meaning of casteless society:
The meaning of casteless society, as envisioned by Bharat Uday
Mission, is total absence of caste-identity in thoughts, words and
deeds. In such a society, there will be no inter-caste marriage
(because for that also, caste-identity should exist. Inter-caste
marriage means marriage between persons belonging to two different
castes), but casteless marriage. In such a society, there will be no
miscalled low or high, backward or forward castes, there will be no
casteist identification, like casteist surnames, caste-based
colonies, caste-based organizations in any part of India,
caste-certificate, caste-column in government forms or caste-based
reservation policy. A person born in such a society will be
absolutely free from caste-identity in thoughts, words and deeds.
Importance of casteless society:
It will destroy the very basis of caste-pride and caste-antagonism. It will destroy all chances of feelings of antagonism in a person born in miscalled low caste, as belonging to that part of society, which has been historically brutalized and oppressed by inhuman, psychopathic custom of untouchability for more than 2500 years.
In absence of caste, there will be great harmony, unity and spiritual development of our society, which will help us in becoming a happy, prosperous nation.
As per discovery of modern biological sciences, due to great variety of gene pool (which is not possible, if marriages are based on miscalled caste), the children born in such society will have much greater qualities of intelligence, physical and mental health.
Our political and priestly class will be bereft of the tool of caste-system in perpetuating their barbaric corruption and immorality. "Divide and rule" has always been the tool of every self-seeking, morally bankrupt politician. By producing an integration of society by dismantling caste-system, we will weaken possibilities of divisive, oppressive agenda by our political and priestly class and thus, render a great service to humanity.
Q: Why should I drop my
casteist surname to help the cause of casteless India?
A:
Casteist surnames are hindrance for our vision of casteless society.
As long as surnames, say, so-called yadav, paswan, pandey, agrawal,
kulkarni, patil, kamble, iyer and so on exists, how can we erase the
system of caste, as these titles are surely used by people belong to
one so-called caste and hence, even if the individual using name
might not be caste-conscious, for the society at large, his surname
surely manifests casteism and caste-identity. So, dropping casteist
surname is a must for realizing the vision of casteless society.
Q:
What is the meaning of dropping casteist surnames?
A: The
most committed of our patriots should drop their surnames and caste,
and not give a casteist surname and caste to their offsprings.
Following steps describe the procedure for changing name (procedures
may be slightly different in different states, but are mostly the
same)
|
1. |
Go to the State Government Press in the Capital City of your state. |
|
2. |
Ask them for the form for change of name and obtain it. |
|
3. |
Fill up the form and submit it (preferably then and there). |
|
4. |
Pay the requisite Fees in cash. (Rs. 120/- in Maharashtra for routine (6-8 weeks for publication) and Rs. 620/- for urgent (2-3 weeks) |
|
5. |
The Press would publish the details of the change of your name (or father's name, or surname as be your case) and post you two copies of the Government Gazette or ask you to collect the same. The press would also let you know when they would publish the same. |
|
6. |
Thereafter wherever you wish to submit your change of Name / Father's Name / Surname Proof, you can submit true copies of the relevant pages of the Gazette. |
The
procedure is adopted for the change in the date of birth and age and
even for a change of religion. Also, for members willing to avoid the
bureaucratic hassles, we appeal to them on moral basis to drop using
their casteist surnames (if any) in all their conversation and
written communication as far as legally possible. We request all
members and all Indians, who aim to establish a casteless India to
follow above 6 steps and drop their casteist surnames for ever and
never use them in naming their children. We appeal to all our members
to renounce caste from their hearts and minds and boldly proclaim, "I
believe in casteless society and hence am free from the taint of
caste; I believe in innate oneness of humanity and hence, and do not
accept the concept of caste" and thus lead the society towards a
caste-free place through unflinching determination.
Q:
Would dropping casteist surname not produce the problem of
"name-clash"?
A: The
problem of name-clash is meaningful only in written form, as in
face-to-face interaction, we always identify a person by face. By
removing casteist surnames, there may be problem of name-clash, but
there are always ways and means to distinguish a person of same name.
Some people may use First-name + Mother's name or Father's Name or
both, or just the initials. People may also use names of
villages/native places as part of the names. Success always comes at
a price: no vision is ever realized without some discomfort and
struggle. To develop a casteless society, we need to pay some price
also and slight discomfort of occasional name-clash is too less a
price for realizing the great vision of casteless India.
Q: Why not have profession-based castes instead of birth based castes? A: From a practical point of view, the complexity and variety of professions in the modern society makes it hard to divide it based on professions. Today people enjoy multi-disciplinary skills. The freedom and opportunities of learning more skills has also made it possible for people to change professions. The argument of replacing the birth based caste system by a profession based caste system is just too impractical and meaningless in the sense that the word "caste" literally implies "lineage" (The word caste is derived from the Portuguese word casta, meaning "lineage", the corresponding Sanskrit word is jati meaning a birth-based classification.). A class-based division of society, by virtue of professions being different, has always existed and it is un-necessary to label it.
Q: Why abolish and not ignore it?
A: We are leading into a vicious cycle of mutual hatred as a result of casteism. The trust among people is vanishing and unrest growing due to the casteist aspirations. In the process of appeasing one group, the politicians of our country are offending the other groups and adding to the unrest. The scenario described in the "casteism today" section would prevail as long as people keep getting segregated from the larger Indian community. Hence we aim to strike at the root cause of the hatred, the very basis of the social division i.e. the concept of caste itself. By way of giving up caste itself, one is truly expressing her vision of social equality for all, denying being a part of the social hierarchy based on birth and helping create an atmosphere where people would trust each other and unite.
Some advocate ignoring casteism and claim that it will die its natural death. Unfortunately given the way Indian politics and social circumstances are going, we are leading towards a more and more divided society. Hence the solution lies not in passivity but in actively leading the country to a better order.
Q: Present caste-system
based on birth is all right if there is no discrimination on the
basis of caste.
A:
There are more than 4000
so-called castes in India. And caste-system is inherently
discriminatory in nature. Some arguments in favor of this are below:
Suppose, a man of so-called caste X marries a woman of so-called caste Y. They beget a child. What will be the caste of that child? It should be neither the caste of his/her father (because in that case, we are promoting gender discrimination - putting man as socially superior to woman in an institutionalized manner. Same logic applies if we give the child the caste of the mother). Why do we not give a child the freedom to choose his/her caste? Given such a choice, it is possible that the child may desire to adopt some other caste (other than that of his/her parents) ? But, what moral or social gain is there in a caste-identity that a child must choose or must be given a caste-identity? Though birth-based identity is present in case of religion or nationality, there is always freedom to change one's religion and even nationality, unlike caste-system, whose label is till our death, unless and until we negate the very notion of caste.
Due to brutal, inhuman practice of untouchability in Indian society over more than 2500 years, a person born is so-called low caste, in general, feels himself/herself to be that part of society, which has been historically victimized for millennia and this fact produces its own negative impact on his/her mind. Similarly a person born in so-called upper caste, may feel caste-pride by misinterpreting Varna system based on qualities/profession as present birth-based caste system. Miscalled Brahmins and other miscalled high caste-people may misinterpret eulogy for qualities-based Varna system in scriptures like Vedas, Geeta and Bhagwat as a proof of their superiority. So, caste-system is a double-edged sword: it may produce superiority complex in miscalled high-caste people and inferiority complex in miscalled low-caste people. This is not a hypothesis, but the social reality in most of rural India and party in urban areas.
Q: If caste-system
is perceived as a wall dividing the humanity and hence, BM aims to
dismantle it, does the same logic not apply to religion, tribe,
nationality, culture,
language and race also?
A: If
a identity has a functional value for the society and does not
produce discrimination or antagonism, then it should not be
considered as a man-made wall diving the humanity. Answer to the
question Q.2. shows how the caste-system is inherently discriminatory
in nature and a breeding ground for antagonism and social division.
The following logic shows that BM's vision doesn't allow antagonism
and social division in case of religion, tribe, nationality, culture,
language and race.
Religion : If religion is freed from elements of superstition, orthodoxy and fanaticism and is used as a means for personal purification and evolution of broad, moral outlook of life, it is a great positive force for the individuals and the society. We believe in secularism (no discrimination by the state based on one's religion). We believe that all religions are various paths towards the same goal of spiritual perfection and all religions teach tolerance and universal brotherhood. If due to social, economic and political factors, any religious community in any part of our society becomes infected with the deadly germs of superstition, orthodoxy and fanaticism, through truth and non-violence, Bharat Uday Mission will help them in developing tolerance, rationality, universal brotherhood and respect for other religions.
Tribe: If tribe is understood as a cultural unit and its concept is free from any antagonism and hostility to other sections of the society, it is means for enrichment of our cultural diversity through various customs, language and other non-divisive, rational aspects associated with a tribe. BM aims to follow this philosophy.
Nationality: BM's vision of nationalism is illustrated in one of our 8 ideals (Ref: http://bharatudaymission.org/htm/CoreIdeology.htm ) : 7. My country is the centre of my love, and not the boundary of my love. My nationalism will be solely guided by universal love. At the same time, I will protect the territorial integrity of my nation against any external aggression with full devotion. Our ideal integrates the concept of nationalism with humanism, without compromising with the territorial integrity and freedom of our nation. A nation is a functional administrative unit, born out of historical, cultural and geographical factors and as long as it is not made a basis for war, hatred and exploitation of one nation by another nation and is based on universal love (unconditional love for entire mankind), it doesn't divide the humanity.
Culture, language and race: BM stands against association of any superiority complex, antagonism and discrimination with any culture, language and race. There is no historical or social factor necessitating division of hearts and minds due to language or culture. Just like a garden's beauty is enhanced by presence of diverse varieties of flowers, a society's cultural evolution is enhanced by the presence of a variety of culture and languages. As long as race is not the basis of oppression, violence and egoism and is seen purely as a cultural identify without any tinge of superior-inferior notion, it does not divide the humanity. People with different culture, language and race can still make the same achievements, through their talent, hard work and conviction. The same does not apply to caste though, as by definition caste implies a birth-based social hierarchy, irrespective of the achievements of a person.
Q: Explain BM' stand on Reservations.
A: The aim of securing reservations for backward castes was to provide safeguards for the people who were denied equal opportunities in the past: opportunities of education, profession, practicing religion and better life in general. Looking at the population statistics, living standards and human development parameters of the different divisions of Indian society, it can be seen that a major portion of the economically and educationally backwards is still constituted by the so-called lower castes.
The intentions behind providing the safeguards were undoubtedly good and aimed to reduce social inequalities. However the way they are being implemented has aggravated the problem. Reservations are given to people belonging to particular castes, hence they are a right ensured by birth. Many people (though not a lot) have been able to elevate their social and economic status using the reservation safeguards, however they and their lineage still keep reaping the benefits. More and more castes are claiming backwardness to get the benefits of reservations. Nowhere in the world, perhaps would we see people fighting for a claim to be called backwards. What makes it worse is that, the fight for status is again based on birth and not on the actual social or economic status of the person. The other side of the story is also true. The implementation of the safeguards, in many cases, is avoided by the so-called upper castes taking advantage of intricacies of law and procedures. With both sides trying to ensure their own interests, the realization of need for social equality and the concern for the country can't be seen anywhere in picture. The policy has resulted in a bitter world of mutual hatred and hatred can't be a solution to any problem.
We would like to create a world where everyone gets equal opportunities and right to means of livelihood. Hence BM recognizes the need of special measures for welfare of the educationally and economically backward sections of the society. However our vision of denial of birth based discrimination makes us oppose the current policy of reservations. While keeping in mind our aim of casteless society, a policy based on educational and economic parameters of backwardness would certainly ensure that the benefits would reach not only the majority "so-called lower caste" people of today, but all the needy people.
Q: Isn't it that Caste system is an Integral part of Hindu religion ?
A: The question of whether a Hindu can possibly exist without a caste, is an obvious one in this context. In answer to "Who is a Hindu?" - "Acceptance of the Vedas with reverence; recognition of the fact that the means or ways to salvation are diverse; and the realization of the truth that the number of gods to be worshiped is large, that indeed is the distinguishing feature of the Hindu religion." B.G. Tilak's definition of what makes one a basic Hindu, as quoted by India's Supreme Court. On July 2, 1995, the Court referred to it as an "adequate and satisfactory formula." [25].
The Varna system as envisioned in the Rigveda was based on one's profession by choice. Hindu religion claims descent from the Vedic religion and allows for many heterogeneous sects to coexist. In the course of history Varna system gave way to Caste system. The conflicting provisions in different religious texts make it difficult to find a convincing proof that castes are an integral part of the Hindu religion. Castes are man made and man can do away with them.
Hinduism is a great religion that teaches tolerance and assimilation. It is that religion that has space even for a Nastik, it definitely allows caste-less followers.
Q: Caste system as an Internal issue of Hindu religion.
A: One of BM's ideals is that of a secular nation and secularity implies neutrality to all religions. While dealing with the issue of casteism, we might be accused of trying to interfere in internal matters of a religion. However the fact that castes proliferate not only in Hindu but most of the other religions in India, shows that its existence is not based on the religion but historical and social circumstances. In our quest for equality to all, we are opposed to casteism as an evil against humanity and not against a particular religion.
Q: Having titles/caste is a personal issue.
A: Such logic is inherently flawed, as same surname is used by all people of a caste and not just only by someone's family members. The origin of surnames can be traced back to Manusmruti [11] that is often termed as the biggest culprit in the evolution of casteism. Vedas don't speak of surnames while the later texts talk of them shows the use and significance of surnames in the establishment of the world of casteism. We can't have surname as just a family name, it is purely caste and casteist mentality parading in name of flawed logic of family pride, so in guise of pride about the family, it is vanity about one's caste only.
Q: I agree in principle, but in practice it is very difficult to implement it
A: Similar arguments were held when our visionary leaders in the 19th century started the process of social awakening and tried to do away with many evil social customs that haunted our society. We are aware that we will meet stiff resistance from the conservatives and those whose interests would get hurt by our policies. Nevertheless, we stand and appeal to all to become brave and stand for the values that they cherish. It will take time, we are aware, but we will not stop and not falter in our mission.
Q: Different castes have different cultures and hence homogenization of castes is practically not possible.
A: The differences are a result of history and the discrimination of thousands of years. They are also a result of economic inequalities that are largely a result of the social inequality. Again, even in today's situations, at least in urban areas, one can easily notice the similarities in family cultures of people from different castes but with same economic status and differences in the family cultures of people from same castes. "Inter-caste" marriages certainly have shown that the dissemination of castes and cultures is possible. The differences that arise are not a result of caste, but human tendencies that are the same across all divisions of society.
Q: We need to uproot the divisive mindset (like discrimination on any other basis like place of birth, place of study, mother tongue) and not the caste system.
A: Very much agreed upon. However as long as the system stays, the mindset will stay. Also, for an issue like caste, which is hereditary (unlike other issues) doing away with the lineage itself implies both uprooting the mindset and simultaneously uprooting the system. While for other issues, the mindset is difficult to change compared to the system, for caste system they are very much connected. Once the lineage factor is gone, the mindset will also change. When we say that we should abolish the caste system, it is indeed not only from physical existence but from the mindsets also. It is simple enough to understand though, that abolishing the physical existence is a necessity for doing away with the mindset.
Q: Doing away with caste, implies taking people away from their roots, their heritage.
A: Unfortunately, the heritage associated with castes is not something that we would like to be proud of. Caste to us is nothing but the history of oppression, torture, denial of opportunities, discrimination and that is not something any human being believing in equality would like to be proud of.
Gopal Krishna
ref: [[[ From: "Vignesh S K"
This article is a good reading, for those who feel that caste system is an
evil, well It doesnt say that the present system is right, but throws some
insight into the problem and tries to find solutions.
http://www.dlshq.org/messages/caste.htm
even though the article is a bit outdate, the basic principles still are
plz read these quotes of Swami Ji:
[[[ Caste is a very good thing. Caste is the plan we want to follow. What caste really is, not one in a million understands. There is no country in the world without caste. Caste is based throughout on that principle. The plan in India is to make everybody Brahmana, the Brahmana being the ideal of humanity.
Our ideal is the Brahmana of spiritual culture and renunciation. By the Brahmana ideal what do I mean? I mean the ideal Brahmana-ness in which worldliness is altogether absent and true wisdom is abundantly present. That is the ideal of the Hindu race. ]]]
though he is using the word caste, but his meaning is altogether different: he is saying, I mean the ideal Brahmana-ness in which worldliness is altogether absent and true wisdom is abundantly present. - this means , he meant Self-Realised souls by word brahmin.
For the time being, let us accept the myth spread by mentally retarded, morally blind and spiritually dull priest class that Gita, Upanishads, Vedas, Puranas and saints like Swami Vivekanada used word brahmin for those who do puja-path (rituals, worships) : now, consider these quotes of Swami Ji.
Swami Ji said: I believe that the Satya Yuga (Golden Age) will come when there will be one caste, one Veda, and peace and harmony. This idea of Satya Yuga is what would revivify India. Believe it. - Swami Vivekananda.
Vedas, Puranas also say that: In Satya Yuga (Golden Age), there were only Brahmins. Gita, Upanishads say ," Brahmin is a man of wisdom."
so, as per interpretation of mentally retarded, morally blind and spiritually dull priest class, Swami Ji and authors of Vedas/Gita/Puranas/ are saying that in Satya Yuga, everyone does only puja-path (ritual/worship) and that Satya Yuga will come again in India when everyone will do puja-path (worship, rituals) : but, then from where food will come ? how will houses be built ? how will we get hair-cut ? who will do technical innovation/research ?
so, this means only one thing: mentally retarded, morally blind and spiritually dull priest class are completely wrong . Swami Ji and authors of Vedas/Gita/Puranas/ used words Brahmin, Shudra, Vaishya and Kshatriya in a completely different context: the real meaning is below -
there r purushartha (types of action): Dharma (Righteousness), Artha (Money and other personal gains), Kama (Pleasure), Moksha (Salvation) : one who lives on plane of Dharma is Khastriya, Artha is Vaishya, Kama is Shudra and Moksha is Brahmin. So, Brahmin, Vaishya, Shudra, Khsatriya r states of human consciousness rather than social categories .
Gita, Upanishads have eulogized Brahmins a lot, but the meaning of Brahmin is a person who is Self-Realised (i.e. has attained the highest stage of consciousness - Universal Consciousness or Brahma) - people like Buddha, Krishna, Ramakrishna Paramahansa are brahmins as per Gita and Upanishads . rest people r mostly a mixture of 4 state of consciousness namely, Brahmin, Vaishya, Shudra, Kshatriya - when we worship God or are in state of meditation (thought-free consciousness), we are in Brahmin state, when we want to remove some wrongs in society, we r in Kshatriya state, when we want to earn money or other personal gains , we r in Vaishya state ,when we want to enjoy sense-pleasures we r in Shudra state. The same person is in the 4 states hundreds of times in one single day.
no one should degrade the meaning of word Brahmin by calling him/herself brahmin without becoming Self-Realised like Buddha. but, the mentally and spiritually retarded priestly class has degraded these spiritual concepts beyond recognition in last few thousand years and has led birth to the cancer of thousands of emotionally disconnected socia categories, called castes. our goal is now to bring light of wisdom and make India free from disease of caste for ever . Also, we will destroy priesthood completely by spreading yoga (asana, pranayam and meditation) in each nook and corner of India and educating people that by God Vedas, Upanishads, Gita mean Universal Consciousness and not stone-idols and that during meditation (thought-free consciousness) or state of high mental calmness, one is closer to Universal Consciousness or God.
Priest class has done enormous damage to "real spirituality" and our nation - they r tamasic people, full of greed, deceit and conceit. Just like, Ravana (and parrots), they have crammed verses of Gita, Upanishads but don't understand even ABC of spirituality - leave aside, Samadhi/Universal Consciousness, these foolish priests don't have even experience of meditation (thought-free consciousness) and yet, dare to pose as custodians of Hindu Religion. by spreading real religion of Yoga, priesthood will be destroyed in toto from Hindu society: we will do it in coming decades. And our deluded pious people, who r willing to donate lakhs and crores to build temples for their so-called piety and religious nature, when our society need hospitals, yoga-centres, schools , will be trained in humanity and compassion through proper education that the light of Universal Consciousness/God/Brahma is present in human beings the most , so instead of serving stone-idols, we would be closer to God/Universal Consciousness by serving our suffering brethren. Instead of donating money to build temples, we will be closer to God/Univeral Consciousness if we donate to build schools, hoispitals, yoga-centres to serve our suffering brethren.
So, BM's caste-free vision is in full harmony with not only rationality, but also with true spirituality eulogised in Gita, Upanishads, Yoga phislosophy . let us will destroy the ridiculous perversion that caste is supported by Hindu scriptures and spirituality. whenever we read any great man like Vivekananda or Gita praising Brahmin so much, we must never fall in the delusion that they r praising so-called Brahmin-caste people. Brahmin caste and every other caste is just a disease - the sooner we rid the society of these labels the better we will be. as per Hindu scriptures, Brahmin-state of consciousness is the final state of evolution of consciousness and every person is supposed to strive to attain it.
let us understand true import of Gita , Upanishads etc. and work for caste-free vision whole-heartedly . Dropping caste-based surname is small, but crucial part of this march towards caste-free India. So, apart from removing caste from our hearts and minds, let us remove caste-identity in social forms like caste-surnames, caste-based reservation, caste-based colony names also.
please reflect upon this mail seriously: and during vacation, visit 5-10 villages and educate people about caste-free vision: caste will go - this is guaranteed - neither on plane of morality nor rationality nor humanity nor spirituality, caste has any support - its support is only egoism and backwardness and that support, we will destroy in next few decades - we give absolute guarantee for this!
best regards,
Gopal
--
Gopal Krishna
B. Tech Computer Science, IIT Kanpur
Homepage: http://gopalkrishna.mission.googlepages.com
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Puru