any construction engineers around? Seriously.

[richard]

Problem:
Using an age old method of lifting, I need to know what is required for a
counterbalance.
The device is a simple "arm" made of wood. Probably 6x6 material. With a
reaching length of 40 feet. On one end, a one inch hole, or larger if
required, will be drilled to accomidate the steel pin on which the timber
will rotate. At perhaps 3 to 4 feet from the end.

Think of those barricade devices used at parking garages.

What do I need in the way of a counterbalance in order to lift up to 1,000
pounds?

Evan Platt shall not reply. Just keep his mouth shut for once.
But I know he will anyway.

[Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}]

richard, in <news:80o0f0929xal$.13fx0tqn...@40tude.net> did

F
|
|------------- T ------------|
|-------- X -------|--- L ---|
==============================
| /\
| / \
|-----| / \
| W | / \
|-----| /________\

Where:
T = Total length of beam
X = Length of beam from load to fulcrum
L = T - X
W = Weight of load to be lifted
F = Force required to lift load W

F = (W * X) / L

So, with your inputs:
F = (1000 * 432) / 48 = 9000 pounds of force required to lift a 1000
pound load.

So you would need a 9000 pound counterweight.
Might be easier to do this lift with a crane.

I might not have read your description right, and got the fulcrum
point reversed. If so, if you intend to put your fulcrum 48 inches
from the weight to be lifted, you'd need just under 112 pounds to
counterbalance the 1000 pound load. If this is the case, bolt a length
of all-thread vertically through the counterbalance end of the beam,
and stack weights from a weight-lifting bench onto the all-thread as a
counterbalance, so you can adjust the counterbalance weight easily.

--

/\ Properly known as Bill
\ /\ The Monster You Kooks Can't Handle
\ / \ THERE IS NO CABAL - LONG LIVE THE NEW CABAL
\/ The AUK coup is complete. The Old Cabal is no more.

Given that some butthurt kook keeps cancelling the roster posts, they
are now included in each of my posts.

Spin, kooky, spin! <snicker>

Here follows the official Nov 2012 alt.usenet.kooks voting roster:

[+] is an 'aye' vote.
[-] is a 'nay' vote.
[ ] (blank) is an abstention.
[X] is a FNVW decreed award.

Vote early, vote often!

---------------
Albatross
[ ]= Emmett Gulley Obsesso Award (k8tul4$5t1$1...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91uhk$m7d$9...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Tar & Feathers Award (juvg2h$en8$1...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com)
---------------
Bit Rot
[ ]= Boötes Void Paper Tiger Award (k86g98$okb$1...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= George Pickett Memorial Trophy (k8f2ju$rcu$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Kook of the Month
(ebd3c769-f031-4f4c...@f17g2000vbz.googlegroups.com)

[X]= Nutless Gutless Award (k8cg4a$ng$1...@newsfeed.x-privat.org)

[ ]= Office of Village Idiot (k7ugmq$1uk$1...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91u2g$m7d$7...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= The Latest Checkmate Wife Award
(jZmdneyA8bANHjTN...@giganews.com)

[ ]= Urinal Award (not Busted Urinal)
(5omdnXL3kZyY-SzN...@giganews.com)
---------------
bobandcarole
[ ]= 20th Century Fox 8-Track Mind Award (k8c766$96m$3...@dont-email.me)
---------------
BroilJAB
[ ]= Kook of the Month
(ccf87cd9-67ae-4823...@eo2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com)
---------------
Checkmate
[ ]= Clueless Newbie of the Month (k8nqeg$610$1...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= George Pickett Memorial Trophy (k7ehgb$j2e$3...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Lance Armstrong Trophy
(19450908-13f7-4eb3...@o30g2000vbu.googlegroups.com)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91shb$io4$2...@dont-email.me,
k91snk$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= The Dickie Dumped Award
(wfydnYRJG44gXQ_N...@giganews.com)
---------------
Constance Knoring
[ ]= Village Pump Award (k949fa$jtf$6...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Cujo DeSockpuppet
[ ]= George Pickett Memorial Trophy (k83nha$ave$2...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91uhk$m7d$9...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Ehmett bin Gulley
[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91ul5$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Fred Hall
[ ]= Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart
(k8189e$fqf$1...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Tinfoil Sombrero (k8qt42$9h3$1...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com)
---------------
Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}
[ ]= Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog-Whistle Award (trainer of K Wills)
(k89o0o$n2c$3...@speranza.aioe.org)
---------------
Gary L. Burnore
[ ]= Failed Vacation Award (k9bjtv$4ai$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Fred Hall "Trapped in the Petting Zoo" Award
(cadb3650-b1ca-4c97...@j18g2000yqf.googlegroups.com)

[ ]= George Pickett Memorial Trophy (k84bno$run$2...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Loony Maroon Award (k6t3dg$j03$5...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91u2g$m7d$7...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= 'What the heck it's Sunday so I'll make up another dozen awards"
Award (chine.bleu-5A877...@news.eternal-september.org)
---------------
Greg Hall
[ ]= Clueless Newbie of the Month Award (k91pm9$loj$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= The 20th Century Fox 8-Track Mind Award
(k8nqeg$610$1...@speranza.aioe.org)
---------------
Heinrich
[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91tvd$m7d$6...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Ï M Poster
[ ]= The Two Face Dick Award
(Nbadnd7H34i9lCnN...@giganews.com)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91ub2$m7d$8...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Irkin Invader Zim / cain...@windstream.net / Frank Drebbin
[ ]= George Pickett Memorial Trophy (k91kbl$1im$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91pup$loj$1...@dont-email.me,
k91uhk$m7d$9...@dont-email.me)
---------------
kensi
[ ]= Barbara Woodhouse Memorial Dog Whistle Award (trainer of
Checkmate and IM Poster) (k846un$run$1...@dont-email.me)
---------------
K Wills
[ ]= Flaming Pants Award
(38e9e2d2-eac1-489d...@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com)

[ ]= The Lance Armstrong Trophy (k8mh28$4da$3...@speranza.aioe.org)

[ ]= Loony Maroon Award (k8f44p$rcu$5...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k8oird$niq$1...@newsfeed.x-privat.org)

[ ]= Unabomber Surprise Award
(9bd98dbd-9bf2-44ff...@c20g2000vbz.googlegroups.com)
---------------
Lady Veteran
[ ]= Loony Maroon Award (k8f5c3$rcu$7...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= South Bass Island Lighthouse Keeper Award
(k8f912$pp8$1...@speranza.aioe.org)
---------------
Michael Ejercito
[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91tvd$m7d$6...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Murphy
[ ]= Chernobyl Award (k6vpnc$r96$3...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Coward of the Month (k6vpnc$r96$3...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Kook of the Month (k6vpnc$r96$3...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Loony Maroon Award (k6vpnc$r96$3...@dont-email.me)
---------------
NoSpamAtAll
[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91tvd$m7d$6...@dont-email.me)
---------------
Stewart
[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k91tnp$m7d$5...@dont-email.me)
---------------
The Revd
[ ]= Busted Urinal Award
(18fe8fbb-5406-490e...@n8g2000vbb.googlegroups.com)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award; Nominated by Nadegda
(k91tvd$m7d$6...@dont-email.me)
---------------
This account has been banned because it violated the Google Groups
Terms Of Use
[ ]= Bad Tacos Award (k81su7$nqg$2...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Busted Urinal Award (k921qe$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Drama Queen Award (k883o0$nb3$6...@newsfeed.x-privat.org)

[ ]= Emmett Gulley Obsesso Award (k921qe$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Golden Killfile Award
(91400d3d-edd6-4342...@m13g2000vbd.googlegroups.com)

[ ]= Loony Maroon Award (k81su7$nqg$2...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Rajesh KOOKrappali Premature Ejaculation Award
(k81su7$nqg$2...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Rubber Turkey Award (k921qe$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Sheldon Ko0ker Compulsive Behavior Award
(k921qe$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)

[ ]= Special Ops Cody Memorial Purple Heart
(k921qe$m7d$1...@dont-email.me)
---------------

[richard]

Thanks for the info.
But what is your beam made of?
Does that make a difference?

Think of a teeter totter. That certainly does not require 9x the lifting
force.
Take a 40ft teeter totter and place the holder at mid point.
place 100 pounds on both ends. The totter levels out.

Now let's move the holder to 4ft from one end with the same weights.
Obviously, the totter will not be level.
So what weight is required to balance the totter?
I think it will be a lot less than the 9x ratio you show.

[richard]

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/levers-d_1304.html

Using their formula, I get an answer of 111.11 pounds to act as a
counterbalance. Just to balance the board out.
To me though, that doesn't sound right for my needs either.

[Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}]

Time to spin up the kooks again. Melt, kooks, melt. <snicker>

richard, in <news:1d17pzae7o0ot.4w1t7l4hokn0$.d...@40tude.net> did

This is true. Let me do some calculations... assuming that you have
your fulcrum 48" from the load:

A 6" x 6" timber will weigh about 7.35 pounds per foot (according to
http://www.engineersedge.com/commercial_lumber_sizes.htm), so at 40
feet, you're looking at a total weight of about 292 pounds.

So, that comes out to about 29 pounds for the load end of the beam,
and about 263 pounds for the force end of the beam.

But because that weight isn't being applied all at one spot at the
force end of the beam, and the calculations to get it exactly right
are pretty intense, let's break it up into one-foot segments, assume
the applied force due to the weight of each one-foot segment of beam
*is* applied at the very end of that one foot segment, and do our
calculations, to arrive at a rough estimate of how much force the beam
itself would generate to counterbalance the load to be lifted.

We know the first four feet of the beam will counterbalance itself
because the fulcrum is 4 feet from the load end of the beam, so we'll
start with foot #5 of the force end of the beam, and work outwards:

Foot #5 of the force end of the beam will provide about 9 pounds of
force to counterbalance the load.

#6 = 11 pounds
#7 = 13 pounds
#8 = 15 pounds
#9 = 17 pounds
#10 = 18 pounds
#11 = 20 pounds
#12 = 22 pounds
#13 = 24 pounds
#14 = 26 pounds
#15 = 28 pounds
#16 = 29 pounds
#17 = 31 pounds
#18 = 33 pounds
#19 = 35 pounds
#20 = 37 pounds
#21 = 39 pounds
#22 = 40 pounds
#23 = 42 pounds
#24 = 44 pounds
#25 = 46 pounds
#26 = 48 pounds
#27 = 50 pounds
#28 = 51 pounds
#29 = 53 pounds
#30 = 55 pounds
#31 = 57 pounds
#32 = 59 pounds
#33 = 61 pounds
#34 = 62 pounds
#35 = 64 pounds
#36 = 66 pounds

Whew! So, adding all those up, we see that the weight of the beam
itself will counterweight approximately 1196 pounds of load, meaning
you'd have to lift *up* with a force of 196 pounds just to put your
load back down!

So you could move your fulcrum away from the load end of the beam by
about 4 more feet, and it'd very nearly balance out (the beam would
counterweight 943 pounds of the load, requiring that you only apply
approximately 57 pounds to lift your 1000 pound load).

Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}

[dadiOH]

You didn't ask the weight to balance, you asked for the counterweight
necessary to lift 1000 pounds. He told you. Now you ask for something
else.

I think you just like to see your name in print.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

[Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}]

Time to spin up the kooks again. Melt, kooks, melt. <snicker>

Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four}, in

Scratch that... forgot to do the lever calculations for this scenario.

It wouldn't be 196 pounds. You'd have to add an extra 196 pounds at
the load end to counterbalance, but at the force end, you'd have to
lift up with a much smaller amount of force.

Since we know that in the scenario above, not taking into account the
weight of the beam, it'd take 111.1 pounds of force to move the
weight, giving a mechanical advantage of approximately 9, we can
calculate that with the beam supplying 196 pounds of force too much,
it'd take 196 / 9 = approximately 22 pounds of force lifting up to
balance things out and set the load back down.

The rest of what I wrote should roughly apply, in regards to moving
your fulcrum 4 feet further away from the load end, though. You'd have
to redo all the calculations from foot #5 to #36 with the new load end
beam length to get it exact, but it should be pretty close.

[Aardvark]

If your fulcrum is 4 feet from one end (the lifting end) and the timber
is 40 feet long, it's simple to work this out. Nine-tenths of the length
is on the counterbalance end, one-tenth is on the weight end. The
counterbalance on the long end should be one ninth of the mass of the
weight you want to lift.

You don't need a fucking engineer to work that out. Maybe a fucking ten-
year-old. Ratios much, Bullis?



--
He is a wise man who does not grieve for the things which he has not, but
rejoices for those which he has.
- Epictetus AD 55 – AD 135

[Aardvark]

You also have to remember that for every foot of upward or downward
travel for your weight, the counterbalance will have to move downwards or
upwards nine feet.

[Aardvark]

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 07:01:28 +0000, Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler

Ooopsie! I ignored the mass of the beam in my calculation. Nicely spotted.

[Aardvark]

On Mon, 03 Dec 2012 06:32:29 -0800, Evan Platt wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Dec 2012 13:48:14 +0000 (UTC), Aardvark
> <aard...@aardvark.uk.tc> wrote:
>
>>You don't need a fucking engineer to work that out. Maybe a fucking ten-
>>year-old. Ratios much, Bullis?
>

> This is for his dome home that over 2 years ago he said would be done
> within a year. And since he hasn't provided any photos or any evidence
> whatsoever, one can only assume this is another of his many failures.
> I'd be willing to bet he hasn't even purchased the material to build the
> home yet.

I tend to agree with your assessment, Evan.

[§ñühwö£f]

Heh...we built a log house...livin in it now...I'd like to know exactly
WTF yer tryin to lift since theres easy & hard ways of doin stuff.
Sometimes its way cheaper in the long run to rent the proper equipment
than to try to rig something that fails and causes a shitload of damage.

Jus Sayin...

--
http://signon.org/sign/protect-americas-wolves
www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.savewolves.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\

[Whiskers]

<http://www.engineersedge.com/simple_levers_menu.shtml>

You haven't said which end of your lever is going to carry the load, and
which end will be used for lifting or lowering the load.

The usual requirement is to move a heavy load through a small vertical
distance, by applying a small force through a much larger distance - ie the
load goes on the short end and you pull the long end. If your beam is 40'
long, you'll probably need a rope fixed to the long end as it will be out
of reach when the short end is on the ground. Binoculars might be useful
too, to see what the load is doing while you're manipulating the far end of
the beam.

The bodger's approach is simply to put the load on the lever then start
adding weight to the other end until either the load moves or the beam
snaps.

Block and tackle, or a hydraulic jack, or a simple crane, might be more
suitable than a simple lever. Consider dividing the 1000lb load into
smaller parts, if possible; heavy weights can be very dangerous when they
move.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[soup]

Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler {One Of Four} wrote:

>
> But because that weight isn't being applied all at one spot at the
> force end of the beam, and the calculations to get it exactly right
> are pretty intense,

No they are not . No need for a finite element type analysis. Just
assume the weight of each part of the beam is acting at its CofG
( for uniform beams ob).



|-----------------|-----------------^| ^-----|-----|
| ↓ | ↓ |
Load | Effort
|<_______________l__________________>|<______e____>|

∑Clockwise moments = ∑Anticlockwise moments

(Load x l)+ (Mass of long sectionX l/2)=(Effort x e)+(mass of short
section x e/2