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Dear Zaneta , Kain , others shaad zivid
The following is my understanding from Gatha and Avesta
In Avesta we read that each human being has got (1-Tan i.e. Body , 2- Jaan i,e. moving state of Body , 3- Baoozah i.e. Mind and Brain's Senses , thinking power , 4- Urvaan or Rvaan which means always is running and incorrectly is known as Spirit or Soul ,.. and 5- Fravahr which is the prescription of Ahooramazda as a gift to the Body for guidance toward Asha).
Jaan is the motor of Tan which fuels it and order the Body to move according to the Mind's order .
Mind is the manager , reads the prescription of Fravahr , along with the experiences so far has learned ,thinks and make the decision and gives order .
Urvaan is the perspective and the product of what ever the body has done , it is the reprensentative of the Body such as Thoughts , Words , Writings and Deeds ,.. . it could be resembled to a River which is running and all other small rivers joining it , its water has the characteristic of the water of all other small rivers i.e. it is salty or bitter or … according to the area which water has passed over . in short this river is a "Tell Tale " of the water of area which the big river is composed of .
Finally when , for some reasons , the Jaan turns off , the Tan and Baoozah dies out , Fravahr returns to its origin and the only thing remains is the Urvaan which is the autobiography or memoraials , "Tell Tale " of the Dead Man .I think the science will agree up to now but what will happen next in the other world God knows ! ! .
As soon as some body mention the name of the Cyrus the Great immediately its Urvaan or its " Tell Tale " is in your front and easily you know and judge Him .
M.Khosraviani
--- On Fri, 10/10/08, Special Kain <specia...@yahoo.de> wrote:
From: Special Kain <specia...@yahoo.de>
Subject: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto
To: Us...@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 10, 2008, 8:01 AM
Dear Zaneta,
Alexander has stressed so many times that it is totally in accordance with Zarathushtra' s message that Zoroastrianism encompasses so many different opinions, views, conclusions and contradictions. I guess that Zarathushtra was, first and foremost, fascinated by our capacity to think and to philosophize. He would have defended the discoveries of modern science and new technology against religious fascism and outdated faith.
On the other hand, we mostly live in a cloud of things we believe in, because we can't prove them nor have they been proven by science yet. This is totally in tune with Peircean pragmatism, which happens to be one of the major inspirations for Popper's critical rationalism (the main paradigm of science). We should be open to new scientific discoveries, examine them critically, draw our conclusions and apply it to our lives. Then there's a massive amount of things we can only believe in.
But
this is where Zoroastrianism is utterly optimistic: time will tell. :-)
Kind regards, Dino
--- Zaneta Garratt <zgarratt@hotmail. com> schrieb am Fr, 10.10.2008:
Von: Zaneta Garratt <zgarratt@hotmail. com>
Betreff: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto
An: ushta@yahoogroups. com
Datum: Freitag, 10. Oktober 2008, 13:21
Hi Parviz,
Thank you for writing back to me-I know that what I believe in-"The existence of a soul as a separate entity from the body " cannot be proved by science-I guess this is a case where science and faith must go their seperate ways- but I do not see why folk should wish to throw you out of your " Ashavand version of Zoroastrianism. " I enjoy reading your letters, and Alexander's letters also, even though both of you would not agree with what I believe in -"The existence of a soul as a separate entity from the body
" -We cannot all believe in the same thing exactly, that is where variation comes into the picture which makes the whole thing more interesting, at least I think so. But thanks for your kind letter, Every blessing from Zaneta
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: solvolant@yahoo. com
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 03:48:53 -0700
Subject: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto
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Dear Zaneta,
Religion has fought science for ages, but as far as intelligent humans are concerned, science has always won. The existence of a soul as a separate entity from the body is not scientific. I do not care how many religions BELIVE in it, science can not believe in anything that is not scientific. Laws of science are called Asha and laws made up by old wives and not in accord with Asha are called Drug (Lies). I am supposed to be an Ashavand and not a Dorvand. Some suggest that I have to be a Dorvand in order to be able to call myself a Zartoshti, or else I should go find myself another name. I tell them that I am an Ashavand Zartoshti and I am here to stay. Shame should not go to me but to those who wish to throw me out of my Ashavand version of Zoroastrianism.
Ushta Ve,
Parviz.
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Zaneta Garratt <zgarratt@hotmail. com> wrote:
From: Zaneta Garratt <zgarratt@hotmail. com>
Subject: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto
To: mehran_gheibi@ yahoo.com, ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 1:26 AM
Hi Mehran,
your views are the same as mine-you write- "that soul is the king over the body and uses it for perfection as a tool." I totally agree. I know that Parviz, even though he is far more intelligent than I am, does not believe in an afterlife, well I do and so do you-I see however that it is most important for each person to reach Haurvatat in this life, because it is a vital part in the journey of the soul-and by reaching Haurvatat in this life each person will do many good acts which will help many more people-but the final purpose of the soul is eventually to reach Ameratat in the next life-and join God/Ahura Mazda--and this has been the view of most people in mankind's history until the 20th
century-My mother was not religious but she always said that - "death is but a bend in the road of life"-and this is a good way to put what I think too-Well my regards to you all and good progress to the Mazdaen Manifesto, Every blessing from Zaneta
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 01:05:10 -0700 From: mehran_gheibi@ yahoo.comSubject: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com CC: special_kain@ yahoo.de; zgarratt@hotmail. com
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Dear Dino and Parviz
dorood
I should say once again that your beliefe is one thing and the teachings of Mazdeyasna, Mazdain Zartoshti or every other name that try to play with, are another. You are not allowed to put your words in the mouth of others. No at all, dear Parviz. You are not true. In all documents, it is clearly taught, that soul is the king over the body and uses it for perfection as a tool. Dera Parviz you should find another name for your new cult.
Nik-o shAd bAshid
KhodA negahdAr,
MoobedyAr MehrAn Gheibi.
Kerman_Iran
--- On Thu, 10/9/08, Parviz Varjavand <solvolant@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Parviz Varjavand <solvolant@yahoo. com>
Subject: RE: [Ushta] Mazdean Manifesto
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 9, 2008, 8:11 AM
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Dear Dino,
Dividing Body and Soul and then constructing an imaginary life for the soul after the death of the body is not a good thing to do and totally Dey-Jashni. But you realize that if you take that away from most of the world religions,( Including Sassanian Zoroastrianism) they would collapse because they have nothing more to offer. M.Z. (Mazdean Zoroastrianism) should be different and be totally pro-life. Alex is right when he suggests that Horvatat in this life is a most important goal for us rather than Ameratat after death. ( I have a long winded thing to say why Ameratat in this life is important and why it does belong in this world rather than the next).
Alex is to the point about his clear vision in most things religious. I remember a conversation with him some ten years back in which he lectured me about not separating body issues from soul issues. He was correct, but I was not talking about the separation of body and soul, I was talking about the separation between Gaytik (Physical realities) and Minoo (Mentally constructed realities). To separate those two is important. The virtual world that the mind can construct (Like the world of after-life) and the hard realities of the physical world are very different and religion should not be an excuse to mix the two and live in a religious pipe-dream.
Ushta Ve,
Parviz
--- On , /
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