CP/M dumps

[Carsten Jensen]

I've received a handful of C128 disks, while some were double sided
some were unreadable for me.
I'm guessing these unreadable disks are CP/M disks as they have
labels/something written on their respective sleves.
Do we have any tools (ZoomFloppy/XUM1541) for dumping these or am I
using d64copy wrongly?

cheers
Tomse

[rcade]

I don't believe that Commodore-compatible CP/M disks are special. They are normal CBM format...

I believe with the 1571 you could use tools to convert files from MFM disks, but it was not native to the system.

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[Tregare]

commodore cp/m disks are not normal cbm format

heres a link to a page with info on copying cp/m disks   http://www.herne.com/cpm.htm

[rcade]

That's very strange since they work from D64 which only stores CBM sectors...

[Spiro Trikaliotis]

Hello,

* On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 01:28:25PM -0700 Tregare wrote:
> commodore cp/m disks are not normal cbm format
>
> heres a link to a page with info on copying cp/m disks   http://www.herne.com/
> cpm.htm

* On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 09:48:14PM -0400 rcade wrote:
> That's very strange since they work from D64 which only stores CBM sectors...

Both of you are right.

First, as far as I know, all CP/M disks that Commodore manufactured and
delivered were in the so-called GCR format. That is, they share the same
way to physically write bits to the disk that the 1541 and 1571
(non-CP/M) use.

That's why these can be read into and written from D64 or D71 files.

Moreover, single-sided disks can be read with a 1541, a 1570 or a 1571
drive.

Note, however, that the "logical" format differs! That is, they use the
CP/M format, starting with the important data (disk layout, directory,
and so on) on track 1, not on track 18 like "normal" CBM disks use.


Additionally, the 1570 and 1571 can read and write MFM formatted disks
(instead of GCR). These disks cannot be read or written with 1541, and
they cannot be converted to a D64 or D71 disk. (To be more precise: I
have not checked if the logical format is the same as with GCR formatted
disks, in which case, this would be possible, theoretically. However, at
least OpenCBM and thus the ZoomFloppy do not support this at the moment,
even if it would be possibl).

Having said this, MFM formatted disks for the C128 seem to be very rare.


Regards,
Spiro.

--
Spiro R. Trikaliotis
http://www.trikaliotis.net/

[geneb]

On Tue, 1 Aug 2017, Spiro Trikaliotis wrote:

> Additionally, the 1570 and 1571 can read and write MFM formatted disks
> (instead of GCR). These disks cannot be read or written with 1541, and
> they cannot be converted to a D64 or D71 disk. (To be more precise: I
> have not checked if the logical format is the same as with GCR formatted
> disks, in which case, this would be possible, theoretically. However, at
> least OpenCBM and thus the ZoomFloppy do not support this at the moment,
> even if it would be possibl).
>

Also, if you've got JiffyDOS installed in a 1571, you won't be able to
read or write MFM media - apparently the JiffyDOS code needed the space
the MFM routines occupied.

g.

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[Carsten Jensen]

Thanks for explaining.

I tried dumping with kryoflux MFM with a pc drive and it was possible to
read on side 0, but side 1 had bad tracks all over.

I guess the disks are either single sided or difference of tracks from
1571 <--> PC drive.

so it seems the disks I have here are MFM

I'll try and make some live tests with these disks to see if they're
single/double sided and/or use both sides.


cheers

Tomse

[David L. Haynes]

Abacus 1571 Internals - Page 106

"The BIOS of the C-128 CP/M+ operating system can process a total of 12 different diskette formats. In addition to the three Commodore formats (C-64, C-128 single-sided, C-128 double-sided), 8 different IBM-34 formats are recognized."

David

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[Spiro Trikaliotis]

Hello Gene,

* On Tue, Aug 01, 2017 at 01:23:58PM -0700 geneb wrote:

> Also, if you've got JiffyDOS installed in a 1571, you won't be able to read
> or write MFM media - apparently the JiffyDOS code needed the space the MFM
> routines occupied.

I cannot believe this! The 1571 ROM is empty from $AA3F to $BF00. They
could pack Jiffy into the 1541 ROM which used $C000-$FFFF only (with not
so many space in there), but could not pack it into the big area?

Where do you have this info from?

[Carsten Jensen]

On 01-08-2017 22:18, Spiro Trikaliotis wrote:

I just got a set of CPM originals for the C128.

these can indeed be dumped as D64 with kryoflux, but they split up side
1 and 0 into 2 files

rather than into a d71 file. This is evident from the dir listing that
files are missing.

unfortunately neither OpenCBM nor nibread can handle this format,
atleast not from

I can see when trying to dump using nibread and d64copy (report of read
error).

if anyone has some pointer on how to solve my problem i'd appreciate it
very much,

for now I'll keep the split d64 files and kryoflux stream, which must
also be converted

where software hasn't been written yet.


cheers

Tomse

[Spiro Trikaliotis]

Hello Carsten,

* On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 01:15:38PM +0200 Carsten Jensen wrote:
> On 01-08-2017 22:18, Spiro Trikaliotis wrote:

> I just got a set of CPM originals for the C128.
>
> these can indeed be dumped as D64 with kryoflux, but they split up side
> 1 and 0 into 2 files
>
> rather than into a d71 file. This is evident from the dir listing that
> files are missing.

How did you list the dir? By using "normal" CBM routines? They use the
track 18 directory, which is not necessarily identical to the CP/M
directory (which starts at track 1)!

CP/M disks for CBM machines can be tricky...

Do you mind sending me the 2 files (directly, not via the ML), so I can
have a look myself what you got?

> unfortunately neither OpenCBM nor nibread can handle this format,
> atleast not from

Have you tried d64copy? It should be able to handle at least one side.

> I can see when trying to dump using nibread and d64copy (report of read
> error).

What exactly does d64copy report? Can you copy and paste the output?

[Pontus Berg]

Sorry for being late and my remark is evident/not relevant, but please mind that for data written on a 1571, the lower side is "reverse direction". The disk spins in a direction and the head on the upper side uses that. The head on the lower side sees  a disk that spins in the opposite direction. From what I know, Kryoflux can mirror the data but as I recall you need to enter a parameter to make that happen.

/Pontus

/Pontus Berg
 Mobile: +46 735 082860

 Skype: BacchusBerg

[Carsten Jensen]

this is embarrassing.

I was focusing too much on the possibility of OpenCBM couldn't handle
CP/M disks
and I had no problems with my other disks (single sided).

the problem came down to the most simple and most common fact..
dirty drive header (only the top one).

thanks guys :-)

cheers
Tomse

[rcade]

Ah, good news. Lucky it was just dirty. I have a couple drives where the tiny wires to the top head have come loose.

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:58 PM, rcade <ritt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ah, good news. Lucky it was just dirty. I have a couple drives where the
> tiny wires to the top head have come loose.

I have a 1541 that's become a parts donor because the read head is
open circuit. :-/

-ethan