Heater Ride Risk

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Barry Stout

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Apr 9, 2026, 12:00:35 PMApr 9
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Yesterday's heater was fast and fun but dangerous. 
We are taking huge risks by blowing through stop signs at speed then accelerating to get off the front.  Stop signs are the issue - University and Snow Road at the beginning and again at the last turn onto Hwy 28.  Luckily that car slowed down on 28.
Stop signs used to be somewhat neutral, for safety, after Blickem almost got pasted years ago.
We need to get back to a safe route through all stop signs and not use it to "get off the front" to inflict damage. 
We could hire traffic cops at each turn so all of us can hammer the turns, go back to the frontage road with no stop signs (Tucson Shoot Out style) or just slow down at said stop signs for the up-tempo group ride that it is, through the much prettier and cooler valley.

Barry A Stout
Stout Hardwood Floor Co., Inc.
Since 1928

David Neal

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Apr 9, 2026, 1:24:44 PMApr 9
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All I have to say  remember the Kathy Cooke events……. I would hate to see any of you have to go through that much pain and possible loss of life….i realize I do not ride the heater  but … be careful please….. 

David Neal


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Shane Cunico

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:05:26 PMApr 9
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I’ll add attacking over the yellow into oncoming traffic as a sketchy move as well.  

We can all do better.

In that light, my attack into the Archer South corner was also a dumbass move. My apologies to anyone I may have affected.  


Shane C. 

On Apr 9, 2026, at 10:00, Barry Stout <bst...@stouthardwood.com> wrote:


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Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:09:03 PMApr 9
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Yes Shane, you better apologize.. jk

Gordon MacDonald

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:11:45 PMApr 9
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Running stop signs and people doing dangerous stuff on the regular is why I no longer show up for heater rides. I don't wanna witness someone get creamed by a car. I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

These risks far outweigh the supposed glory one might gain from "winning" the heater. Now operating on that point, can anybody recall from memory who "won" the heater on July 16, 2025? Stay safe out there, folks.

Gordon A. MacDonald, Ph.D

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Jerry Garcia

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:21:51 PMApr 9
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It’s not about winning the heater,  it’s about not letting Christian win the heater.


Tamatha Risner

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:24:00 PMApr 9
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True fact! 

Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:26:10 PMApr 9
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Well said Jerry, that’s all it matters! 

On Thu, Apr 9, 2026 at 1:21 PM Jerry Garcia <jgtr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shane Cunico

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Apr 9, 2026, 3:55:34 PMApr 9
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Hey, BTW Christian, I learned that you were the one chasing me after that attack.

Thanks buddy!!!!

S
From: zia...@googlegroups.com <zia...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Christian M. Dupret <christia...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2026 1:08 PM
To: zia...@googlegroups.com <zia...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Heater Ride Risk
 

Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 9, 2026, 4:06:50 PMApr 9
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Sorry to disappoint but I didn’t think you were “attacking”, and had like 10 other guys on your wheel lol. 

Shane Cunico

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Apr 9, 2026, 4:51:40 PMApr 9
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I knew the comment was coming.  I'll let others be the judge.
From: zia...@googlegroups.com <zia...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Christian M. Dupret <christia...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2026 2:06 PM

Tamatha Risner

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Apr 9, 2026, 5:13:14 PMApr 9
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bikemaster59

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Apr 10, 2026, 9:25:55 AMApr 10
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Agreed Barry.  I use the heater for my intervals knowing that I will not win anything.  I would appreciate a return to a start of high speed riding after crossing the highway on snow going out as well as at at the junction where we re-enter the highway. I also would not mind a pause where we turn onto the cross road that goes over the river into San Miguel as well.

Steve C.

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Patrick Steele

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Apr 10, 2026, 9:27:30 AMApr 10
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If Dale Earnhardt was alive to witness this conversation about going slow and not turning left (on stop signs) he'd be very disappointed in us

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ziavelo/CAPL0%3D4FKxAgEoP8CKjBx1kLZfSN6eyPUpucCeXPqUF3_2CxR2Q%40mail.gmail.com.

Jerry

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Apr 10, 2026, 9:33:28 AMApr 10
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It’s called wokeness

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 10, 2026, at 7:27 AM, Patrick Steele <patrick....@gmail.com> wrote:



David Neal

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Apr 10, 2026, 10:09:13 AMApr 10
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I do hope the Velo  group/heater ride will come to a realization that this group will be affecting EVERY cyclist in the Mesilla area IF indeed dangerous actions have been taking place. All it will take is a motorist or two calling in to the proper law enforcement agency to complain about cyclists being  dangerous.. that will trigger a crackdown on all cyclists not just this group… as I say I DO NOT know if this is actually happening and only responding to whst has been written.. have fun train hard and be safe … 

David Neal


Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 10, 2026, 10:56:54 AMApr 10
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🫠

Zia Velo

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Apr 10, 2026, 12:24:07 PMApr 10
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Barry,
thank you for bringing up this important reminder of safety. Even though it is not a 'race' it is easy to fall into a race mode without remembering the lack of safety we need to maintain. I know I have been guilty of messing up the safety expectations and will work to emphasize more clarity in participant safety.

We did a MUCH better job of warning each other with the traffic from behind and upfront this past heater. This improvement in safety with traffic proves we can do a better job at corners and stop signs.

Thanks for caring about each other.
David

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Barry Stout

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Apr 10, 2026, 1:31:21 PMApr 10
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I love you man.

Barry Stout
Stout Hardwood Floor Co., Inc
From: zia...@googlegroups.com <zia...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Zia Velo <zia...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2026 10:23:52 AM

To: zia...@googlegroups.com <zia...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Heater Ride Risk

Tom Custer

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:06:36 AMApr 11
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Barry, uncle Tom loves you too. The folks who run stop signs make all riders with a ZV jersey look like jerks. Not a good public image for the club.

Uncle Tom

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Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 11, 2026, 3:15:11 PMApr 11
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Stop sign are yied signs…. 

Shane Cunico

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:21:04 PMApr 11
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Just for clarity, the new, New Mexico law mimics the Idaho laws that allow cyclists to treat Stop signs as yielding signs, and stop lights as stop signs. 

Most motorists and many cyclists are not aware if these changes that took effect months ago.  Just be super careful. 


Shane C. 

On Apr 11, 2026, at 13:15, Christian M. Dupret <christia...@gmail.com> wrote:



David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:25:44 PMApr 11
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In the yielding to stop sign that is IF no ONE is coming . IF a car is there with you from the opposite direction. Then yes I would STOP .. 3,000 lbs versus 159-250 lbs the larger vehicle will do damage to you…

David Neal


Jerry Garcia

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:31:10 PMApr 11
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Pretty comical coming from someone who would constantly cross the yellow line in several instances even after being told not to by several riders including myself. 

Jerry

David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:36:33 PMApr 11
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Pretty funny you or anyone  never told me to my face … soooo… whatever…but I have seen plenty of zvers  going  out to airport and beyond cross to the opposite of the road on a regular basis… .. I’m not the one who has nearly been hit.. not  even close but according to these reports several ZVers have violated those rules on a regular basis… have a good one… 

David Neal


Jerry Garcia

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:39:25 PMApr 11
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Not only did I say it to your face, but I actually put my hand on your shoulder and explain nicely to you that I would hate to see you get hit by a car and that you were putting the rest of the group in danger. And this was coming down Picacho at high rate of speed. N even after I explained that to you, you still disobeyed the rules of the road and crossed the line.

David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:40:17 PMApr 11
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Uh huh … 

David Neal


fabian erives

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:41:37 PMApr 11
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chowder club anyone?!?!?

Tamatha Risner

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Apr 11, 2026, 6:47:36 PMApr 11
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Actually I’ve had to tell you on more than one occasion to NOT ride on the left lane of the double laned highway coming down from the airport and yes, it was to your face. A few others have also had to say something to you and yes cars were coming from behind at over 55mph. Regardless to cars coming from behind, NO ONE SHOULD EVER BE IN THE LEFT LANE OF A DOUBLE LANED ROAD OR HIGHWAY or riding in the middle of the road rather than shoulder when the shoulder allows. 

Point is, WE CAN ALL DO BETTER. We should ALWAYS yield to cars regardless to laws now allowing us to roll through stop signs. We should also always be calling out vehicles. The heater nor any other ride/race is worth someone getting hurt or killed. When you’ve seen what we’ve seen, you’d understand. 

David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:05:01 PMApr 11
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And of course i DO REMEMBER that  shouting match from you… ( one sided)thanks for refreshing my memory…but you were not at the incident point but viewing from a Distance from BEHIND and could not see I had to MISS  another cyclist who had darted to the left of the road for no reason and I had to make  a quick action to keep from hitting him.. That SAME CYCLIST also on another occasion slowed to 5 mph and made a U turn right in front of me and had to miss him. ( yes I know his name but am not classless enough to attempt to embarrass him)…your anger at me is DISPLACED. But again the same problem EXISTS NOW and you Do NOT have  me to blame… huh wonder why that is? oh yeah several other zvers are still the problem .. 

David Neal


Tamatha Risner

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:19:15 PMApr 11
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Not even worth arguing the matter anymore…

Again, WE CAN ALL DO BETTER! I own the bad decisions I’ve made on the bike, in which I’ve made plenty. And I’ve had to apologize for some of those bad decisions. WE’VE ALL MADE THEM! I pray every time I get on the bike to keep everyone safe and free from harm or having to witness anyone harmed and continue to do so even if you’re not my friend.

 


David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:33:12 PMApr 11
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And again I am sure you have not noticed but I HAVE NOT ridden with ZV for a very  long time now.. . Why ? Because of the  dangerous ACTIONS by some zvers … YES you are correct…I also pray that no one gets hurt and I will own up to my bad decisions when they  happen.. my intent is to see ALL CYCLISTS including zvers to BE SAFE … but what happens ? I get attacked  Just for  wanting to SEE ALL CYCLISTS safe.. these dangerous actions  done  reflects on ALL CYCLISTS  not just zvers… a motorist  does not  know or care from what cycling club we are from .. they just know oh it’s another cyclist doing dangerous things… ZV,B&C or anyone riding by themselves are AFFECTED..


David Neal


Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:45:36 PMApr 11
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Berry, see what you started! LOL

David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:51:42 PMApr 11
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I think it’s healthy to air things out … maybe Mr Garcia and ms risner will feel better now that they found their scape  goat ( baa baa baa)… LOL…. hmmm but the problem still EXISTS… better find a new scape goat  … LOL.. 

David Neal


fabian erives

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:54:24 PMApr 11
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Those are fighting words!! I’ll bring the gloves!! LOL 

David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:55:25 PMApr 11
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Set it up … lol..

David Neal


David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:56:17 PMApr 11
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David Neal

Jerry

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Apr 11, 2026, 7:59:17 PMApr 11
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No scapegoat David just calling out the obvious. No hard feelings on my part. Just want to see everyone safe. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 11, 2026, at 5:56 PM, David Neal <manfr...@gmail.com> wrote:



David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 8:02:01 PMApr 11
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ME TOO… as I say haven’t ridden with the group in a long time  .. ( still live in the area) BUT the problem still exists…something that is being ignored .. ask yourselves WHY? 

David Neal


David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:11:00 PMApr 11
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Here is another rider’s Comments who emailed me and refuses to ride with  ZV .. how about Laura Burkett? If memory serves me, she was hurt during a Heater  ride about 1-2 years ago.. why hasn’t she come back to the group ?…I say this to get ALL OF YOU to realize some serious correction in attitude is warranted .. I DO RESENT  being  screamed at from an ill tempered banshee  cursing and swearing at me from 15-30 feet away when she did not bother to gather any facts but assuming she is correct in what  she thought she saw and i explained in detail earlier what  happened .. I do remember frank Moreno tapping me on the shoulder and commenting but frankly i do not remember Mr. Garcia doing this at all….however just because Mr Garcia ms Eisner or frank thinks I did something wrong DOES NOT MAKE IT TRUE until ALLTHE FACTS have been explored .. 
But as usual it makes no difference..I am so afraid if you do not correct it someone  will get seriously hurt or worse .. I hope the group will heed the warnings…

Here is that email from  another rider:

On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at 6:37 PM Mark M. wrote:
David,

I raced in Dallas for 5 years beginning in the early 70's. What turned me off to the Zia group were the exalted egos. Most especially the head of the club. Found it a real turn off. 

David Neal




Ryan R

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:13:12 PMApr 11
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This guy seems fun. 


Jerry

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:19:10 PMApr 11
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Seriously David, to quote a previous ZV director that actually had the balls to say something, don’t cross the f’ing yellow line 
 
Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 11, 2026, at 7:13 PM, Ryan R <rjrfa...@gmail.com> wrote:



David Neal

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:23:58 PMApr 11
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Seriously Jerry you need to start reading what I said…. Sigh… have not ridden with ZV since end of  2025 and I had the  “ balls ” to actually back him up ( ZV director) but got attacked for something that happened nearly a week ago .. seriously you need better reading skills.. 

David Neal


fabian erives

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Apr 11, 2026, 9:27:24 PMApr 11
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Shot's fired!!

Jerry

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Apr 11, 2026, 10:14:11 PMApr 11
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I read things at face value 

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 11, 2026, at 7:27 PM, fabian erives <fabian...@gmail.com> wrote:



Barry Stout

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Apr 12, 2026, 8:56:23 AMApr 12
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Good morning, all.

We have had some really large groups in this year's heater, which looks and feels awesome to ride in.  This is a testament to its organizers/founders and current club(s) leadership. Everyone looks forward to Wednesday each week.
Since I am old with less and less filter, I would like to propose these heater ride safety improvements:

*Per Mr. Cunico, obey NM Law and approach stop signs with a much slower and safer roll. Snow and Hwy 28 is a positive example of this, most of the time.
 It is up to the front riders to be diligent - you are responsible for the rest of the group so treat that responsibility seriously.
 This should also include the first right off south Snow road and left over the river in Mesquite.  It gets a little hairy as we make these turns, if we are talking   about crossing over the yellow line.   

*Snow Road north is a medium pace until the potholes are fixed sometime this decade.

*Yellow line, yellow line.

*Continue to call out "car back, front" etc.  Thumbs up here.

*Everyone has the right to call out those who ignore these rules or point out an unsafe event that took place and club leadership will actively police. 

 *Treat the automobile public as our customer - let's keep them happy with zero complaints.

Thank you,
Barry Stout

Tom Custer

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Apr 12, 2026, 10:40:54 AMApr 12
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Thank you Barry…well done.

Tom

Christian M. Dupret

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Apr 12, 2026, 11:36:37 AMApr 12
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 I agree that we should never rely on unsafe tactics or use oncoming traffic to gain an advantage on the group. That said, the Heater’s course is clearly designed with technical turns, and it’s reasonable that riders at the front use their skill and momentum to navigate them efficiently. It doesn’t seem fair to expect the front of the group to hold back or alter their riding to accommodate less technical riders (not directed at anyone in particular). The front group is typically moving at a higher pace, and it’s difficult to gauge whether riders further back have the same opportunity to approach those sections in the same way. At the same time, I don’t believe anyone in this group would knowingly put others at risk—especially in a ride where there’s no prize or stake beyond the ride itself. The Heater has generally been a safe ride, but it’s also important to recognize that every time we get on the bike, there’s an inherent level of risk—that’s part of what makes it exciting.



Zia Velo

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Apr 12, 2026, 1:55:44 PMApr 12
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Dear ziavelo cyclists,

I know what I say next  going may bring calm or more frustration to this email thread. I will also admit that I do not have notifications on my email for my Gmail account for the club. So, when I get questions from a variety of club members about what's happening in the Google group conversation, as club director, I have to jump in.

For a little bit of background information. In December of 2004. I invited a group of cyclists in town to reconnect through the ziavelo cycling club, over 25 people were at that meeting and or signed that original list, fortunately, I still have that list. And, thank you to the support and the auspices of some of the original, 1985, club organizers and leaders I have been either the leader or co-leader of our group since that time.

A few years after the reorganization of the cycling club, the Google groups was created to allow communication across the state and the country. There are over 100 email addresses in the group from members new and old. And, in all the years I have been the owner of the group, despite challenges and disagreements, what I've seen unfold over the last 2 days is disheartening and  frustrating. 

I know my personality is more of a go along to get along type and doesn't always match what some people need in an organization's leader. And having said that, I'm not going along anymore.

I am not going to spend time presenting or debating what happened to whom, when. I do know that when I have been riding with ziavelo, since 2002, we recognize that each of us is responsible for each other.  And I, in an early attempt to minimize the vitriol in this email thread, admitted my own areas of improvement, as did many others. 

Additionally, I take umbrage at people criticizing anybody who's taken on the mantle of leadership, at any time, within the club. It is the manifestation of our passion for cycling that keeps us supporting our chosen activity. 

Ultimately, as the moderator of the Google groups, it is my responsibility to remind people of proper decorum and the potential to remove people when the dialogue is neither supportive nor conducive to building club ideals. And I will use that responsibility to minimize access to people on the list when necessary. 

Thank you, 
David Rutledge 











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David Neal

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Apr 12, 2026, 4:16:53 PMApr 12
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I tend to agree very much .. all anyone is asking is :HAVE FUN !  TRAIN  HARD ! and BE SAFE!!!!

David Neal


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