Social Services
David Wynne-Griffiths
the Social Services in Norfolk to take the appropriate steps to
protect the little girl despite there being ample evidence of abuse.
The same thing happens time and time again and the Social Services
are always at fault. The Social Services are obviously hard pressed
to deal with their case load, but why do they always seem to make
exactly the same mistakes? Is it the quality of the people who work
in Social Services or is there some other basic fault in the system?
--
~~~~~~~~~~
David W-G
~~~~~~~~~~
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:dav...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
In view of the highly confidential nature of such cases it is highly
unlikely that the media have access to the full case history.
Gaining access to premises and acquiring hard facts is covered by
complex legislation and the Social Services (along with the Police and
Health Authorities - who do not get the flak but also have resposibilities)
face considerable difficulties.
They also get slated when they remove a child to a 'place of safety'.
--
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Marion Pearcey
from David Wynne-Griffiths <dav...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Another child was murdered, and the enquiry has shown a failure by
> the Social Services in Norfolk to take the appropriate steps to
> protect the little girl despite there being ample evidence of abuse.
> The same thing happens time and time again and the Social Services
> are always at fault. The Social Services are obviously hard pressed
> to deal with their case load, but why do they always seem to make
> exactly the same mistakes? Is it the quality of the people who work
> in Social Services or is there some other basic fault in the system?
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> David W
> ~~~~~~~~~~
My daughter Fran(ces) was a police cadet in the early 70's and as
young as she was had to help deal with an horrendous murder of a
little girl named Maria Caldwell in Brighton. This case caused for
national condemnation and it was said then that this must never
happen again. How many children have been murdered since? And every
time we have the same old excuses!!
--
Marion
do...@zetnet.co.uk
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Gaining access to premises and acquiring hard facts is covered by
> complex legislation and the Social Services (along with the Police and
> Health Authorities - who do not get the flak but also have resposibilities)
> face considerable difficulties.
In this case the head of social services in Norfolk was on TV openly
admitting that his department had made nearly every mistake in the
book, as had the police. The point I was making is that almost
exactly the same situation has occurred so many times going back, as
Marion reminds us to Maria Caldwell and even before that. Why is the
social service department always found by the subsequent official
enquiry to have totally failed to do their duty whenever such a
murder of a child occurs?
Frances Patricia Amas
from Marion Pearcey <do...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> My daughter Fran(ces) was a police cadet in the early 70's and as
> young as she was had to help deal with an horrendous murder of a
> little girl named Maria Caldwell in Brighton. This case caused for
> national condemnation and it was said then that this must never
> happen again. How many children have been murdered since? And every
> time we have the same old excuses!!
> --
> Marion
You always will until someone puts the needs of the child ahead of
maintaining a "family unit". Frankly placing children on the At Risk
Register will not save them either. Concerned neighbours are often
viewed as busybodies. It's even more difficult now to have a child
removed from home than it used to be.
--
Fran
ja...@zetnet.co.uk
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:dav...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> Why is the
> social service department always found by the subsequent official
> enquiry to have totally failed to do their duty whenever such a
> murder of a child occurs?
Heavy caseloads, high stress levels, high staff turnover.
The converse side of the coin is that none of the successes of Child
Care Social Workers are publicised.
It would be interesting to know the success:failure ratio.
Stop knocking the Social Services.
Why don't the Police solve every murder case?
Why don't doctors cure all ills?
Why don't barristers win every case?
Who has 100% success rate?
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:ja...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> You always will until someone puts the needs of the child ahead of
> maintaining a "family unit".
"The needs of the child are paramount" - I cannot remember which Act,
but certainly early 90s.
> Frankly placing children on the At Risk
> Register will not save them either. Concerned neighbours are often
> viewed as busybodies. It's even more difficult now to have a child
> removed from home than it used to be.
Working in the Child Care team is like walking through a minefield.
In some areas it's difficult to fill vacant posts - especially Team
Leader.
Of course there are always those who know what the social workers
should have done (retrospectively)!
Pam Massey
The message <ant13005...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk>
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Heavy caseloads, high stress levels, high staff turnover.
That can be he same in almost every profession.
> The converse side of the coin is that none of the successes of Child
> Care Social Workers are publicised.
True, the media will only ever pick up on the failures. There must be
hundreds of children on every Social Services Dept. books and 'at
risk' register. The fact that one child is 'murdered' by the parent
every so often, however tragic it may be, that child thankfully is
one in a million or more.
> It would be interesting to know the success:failure ratio.
'twould, I suspect the failure rates are very low in comparison.
> Stop knocking the Social Services.
They have a hard job. I have seen the benefits reaped in some of the
rougher areas I have worked in. On the other hand they can stick
their noses in where they are not wanted or needed giving them a bad
name, another thing the media pick up on.
Pam
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> It would be interesting to know the success:failure ratio.
It would indeed!
> Stop knocking the Social Services.
I am sure that there must be many well run social services
departments around the country which serve their clients well. We
only tend to hear about those social security departments which have
failed one of the children in their care. Following each murder
conviction there is a mea culpa from the head of the department
blaming himself and his department for every mistake in the book. No
one seems to be sacked or reprimanded and the same mistakes are made
time and time again. The reports of the official enquiries following
each of the children's deaths always find that the social services
department was badly run and the staff ill qualified and inadequate.
> Why don't the Police solve every murder case?
They try.
> Why don't doctors cure all ills?
Many are incurable, and while doctors like the police try hard they
cannot always succeed.
> Why don't barristers win every case?
Given that there are two sides in every case it is very rarely
possible for both of them to win!
> Who has 100% success rate?
I doubt anyone has!
Aonghas P MacKenzie
from David Wynne-Griffiths <dav...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
/snip/
> > Who has 100% success rate?
> I doubt anyone has!
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> David W-G
God?
APM
Guy King
from Marion Pearcey <do...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> How many children have been murdered since?
Then again, how many children have /not/ been murdered because social
services have done their jobs well. It would be almost impossible to
tell I would think.
--
| |\_/|
Guy King |~~(o o) My mother warned me about
Hounslow, Middlesex | /=(Y)= loose cars and fast women.
guy....@zetnet.co.uk |(
www.users.zetnet.co.uk/gking/ | \
Ag@whd
penned these words:
>The message <199812121...@zetnet.co.uk>
> from Marion Pearcey <do...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
>
>> How many children have been murdered since?
>
>Then again, how many children have /not/ been murdered because social
>services have done their jobs well. It would be almost impossible to
>tell I would think.
I wonder how many of them have become social workers myself ... :-)
Adrian
WWW WWW Adrian Gothard
WWW ww WWW White Horse Design
WWWWWWWWWW
WWWW WWWW w...@zetnet.co.uk, http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/whd
---
Designers of video capture/filter/processing systems for aircraft
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Aonghas P MacKenzie <an.b...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> God?
Curious you should say that! Does anyone know of anything he has
done recently? The chap in the Old Testament was pretty nifty at
protecting the interests of his chosen people, but he seems to have
deserted them for at least the last two millennia and not bothered
much about any one else.
Carey Harmer
> the Social Services in Norfolk to take the appropriate steps to
> protect the little girl despite there being ample evidence of abuse.
> The same thing happens time and time again and the Social Services
> are always at fault. The Social Services are obviously hard pressed
> to deal with their case load, but why do they always seem to make
> exactly the same mistakes? Is it the quality of the people who work
> in Social Services or is there some other basic fault in the system?
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> David W-G
> ~~~~~~~~~~
There is a common feature common to all these cases, and also to the
incompetent Crown Prosecution Service, the Child Support Agency, MAFF
(the BSE chaos), and the Prison Service (allows prisoners to operate
rackets, escape, take drugs) -
they are all run by, or were set up by, the CIVIL SERVICE.
Carey
Nicholas Besley
The message <199812132...@zetnet.co.uk>
from David Wynne-Griffiths <dav...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> > God?
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> David W-G
> ~~~~~~~~~~
Well, yes, as it happens. I know of one miracle which took place in
Stepney Green, and I can report a successful exorcism which I
conducted in my own house.
I haven't time to relate it all now, but as soon as I have time I will do so.
Tony
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Carey Harmer <cf...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> There is a common feature common to all these cases, and also to the
> incompetent Crown Prosecution Service, the Child Support Agency, MAFF
> (the BSE chaos), and the Prison Service (allows prisoners to operate
> rackets, escape, take drugs) - they are all run by, or were set up by, the CIVIL SERVICE.
I think that the social services departments are all part of local
rather than central government, and thus the civil service do not
have anything to do with them. However, the bureaucracy of local
government is worse and in general the quality of people working for
local government is lower.
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Nicholas Besley <empo...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Well, yes, as it happens. I know of one miracle which took place in
> Stepney Green, and I can report a successful exorcism which I
> conducted in my own house.
> I haven't time to relate it all now, but as soon as I have time I will do so.
I look forward to that. I trust that you are using miracle in the
strict sense of "a marvellous event not ascribable to human or
natural agency, and therefore attributed to the intervention of a
supernatural agent" I have seen an exorcism carried out, and what
a wonderfully archaic ceremony it was with echoes right back to the
dark ages of primitive beliefs.
Rick Hayward
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Heavy caseloads, high stress levels, high staff turnover.
> The converse side of the coin is that none of the successes of Child
> Care Social Workers are publicised.
> It would be interesting to know the success:failure ratio.
> Stop knocking the Social Services.
> Why don't the Police solve every murder case?
> Why don't doctors cure all ills?
> Why don't barristers win every case?
> Who has 100% success rate?
That's a sane appraisal. In the past, I've worked closely with Social
Services and, as with most organizations, qualities of staff vary,
and sometimes pretty dim mistakes are made. The answers are, however
usually systemic rather than anything to do with the essential
quality of the people involved.
This country does get public services largely on the cheap, and then
is surprised that they aren't perfect. The whinge culture.
Governments tend to do run from the real systemic problems by
promoting cheap mickey-mouse initiatives such as target-setting. It
costs less, has the appearance of action and fulfils the 'it ain't my
fault, guv' function, although anyone with half a brain knows that
measuring something and wishing doesn't, per se, make it better.
As has been said - how many remember the thousands of small
successes, or the times when our constantly 'outraged' press has
taken the contrary position, and feigned concern at a child being
removed from parents?
If anyone thinks social services have a particularly poor performance
record, just put it into context by considering the massive
incompetence within the well-financed IT industry. Constant failures
of product reliability and performance, and the outrageous,massive
and forseeable error of the Y2000 problem. Little can approach that
degree of incompetence - but it is rarely discussed in the same terms.
--
RH
Rick Hayward, Wakefield, West Yorkshire
rick.h...@zetnet.co.uk
Helen Deborah Vecht
believe the child died.
Because this child had been seen in Accident & Emergency, the powers
that be decided that *all* children under 5 years of age, presenting
to A&E with *any* sort of problem had to be fully stripped.
I do not think this is a good way of using staff time. I also think
that stipping kids down when they present with trivial illness and
injury represents an unwarranted assault.
There are no clearly correct ways to manage potential child abuse. If
you don't over-react, some kids will end up dead at the hands of
their abusers. If you do over-react, some children will be forcibly
be parted from their parents without good reason.
--
Helen D. Vecht
helen...@zetnet.co.uk
Salisbury, Wiltshire,
Great Britain
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:dav...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I think that the social services departments are all part of local
> rather than central government, and thus the civil service do not
> have anything to do with them.
Yes, Social Services are part of Local Government.
> However, the bureaucracy of local
> government is worse
I don't know about 'worse' - bureaucracy anywhere can be difficult to
work with.
> and in general the quality of people working for
> local government is lower.
Expand on this please David - there are highly qualified and highly
trained personnel in Local Government.
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:helen...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> There are no clearly correct ways to manage potential child abuse. If
> you don't over-react, some kids will end up dead at the hands of
> their abusers. If you do over-react, some children will be forcibly
> be parted from their parents without good reason.
Cleveland.
Elaine Jones
<URL:mailto:rick.h...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> If anyone thinks social services have a particularly poor performance
> record, just put it into context by considering the massive
> incompetence within the well-financed IT industry.
Nice comparison Rick.
> Constant failures
> of product reliability and performance, and the outrageous,massive
> and forseeable error of the Y2000 problem. Little can approach that
> degree of incompetence - but it is rarely discussed in the same terms.
Why people persist in calling it a 'bug' I've no idea. I understand that
initially it was something to do with the amount of memory require to
process the date, and therefore a deliberate decision.
Particularly as there are other platforms (see below) which will not have
the problem.
Helen Deborah Vecht
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> In article <199812141...@zetnet.co.uk>, Helen Deborah Vecht
> <URL:mailto:helen...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > There are no clearly correct ways to manage potential child abuse. If
> > you don't over-react, some kids will end up dead at the hands of
> > their abusers. If you do over-react, some children will be forcibly
> > be parted from their parents without good reason.
> Cleveland.
Orkney
The thing is, I believe, despite there having been some over reaction
in both these cases, some of the accusations were justified.
There is a parents' pressure group called PAIN (Parents Against
Injustice) for accused parents.
Sometimes it's very difficult to believe a child *is* abused, so one
tends to ignore the evidence in front of one's face.
Where human beings make decisions about these matters, there will be
c*ck-ups. Despite the best intentions and deeds of legislation, local
government and risk managers, THAT IS LIFE!!!
Helen
Gerald L R Stubbs
from David Wynne-Griffiths <dav...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Another child was murdered, and the enquiry has shown a failure by
> the Social Services in Norfolk to take the appropriate steps to
> protect the little girl despite there being ample evidence of abuse.
> The same thing happens time and time again and the Social Services
> are always at fault. The Social Services are obviously hard pressed
> to deal with their case load, but why do they always seem to make
> exactly the same mistakes? Is it the quality of the people who work
> in Social Services or is there some other basic fault in the system?
> David W-G
Having read up to posting 20 in this string, I
only want to make one reply, so will not quote.
There seems to be an expectation that life should
be risk free, and that we should all be immortal.
If anything befalls us or we die, then it seems to
be deemed that it is someone else's fault.
On the news tonight I heard that the parents of a
child, born healthy by section, but deprived of
oxygen in IT and thus brain damaged, are suing the
health authority for millions. Whilst I and everyone
else of right mind must have every sympathy for
the parents, who are saddled with a moron for the
extent of his life, and will have to deal with the
mistake made in the hospital every day as the child
grows up, is it not a fact that human beings will
make mistakes as it is the nature of the beast?
Fifty years ago, the premature child that is the
subject of the action would not have lived. Neither
might the mother.
Everyone does their best, by and large, within the
sphere in which they work. Humans still have limitat-
ions and will always make mistakes, it is part of
life.
Our expectations are too high, we are easily diss-
appointed.
I am with Elaine J on this one.
Stubbsy stu...@zetnet.co.uk
<:)(((((><<
David Wynne-Griffiths
from David DCLXVI/M <DA...@zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> I dunno about that. He seems to have done pretty well by them since
> 1948.
Probably remorse at allowing Hitler to nearly eliminate the European Jews <vbg>
David Wynne-Griffiths
from Elaine Jones <ela...@cae-coed.zetnet.co.uk> contains these words:
> Expand on this please David - there are highly qualified and highly
> trained personnel in Local Government.
And there are even more highly qualified and even better trained
personnel in Central Government.