Zeta Alpha - Initial Thoughts?
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Ob1
Oct 18, 2009, 10:03:13 PM10/18/09
to ZetaType
Hi people. Please could you give us your initial thoughts in this
thread. I will be copying in some of the feedback I got from people
via email but going forward we feel that a group thread would be more
efficient.
thread. I will be copying in some of the feedback I got from people
via email but going forward we feel that a group thread would be more
efficient.
Ob1
Oct 18, 2009, 10:04:38 PM10/18/09
to ZetaType
FROM PAUL
OK here is my initial feedback:
Environment:
Did not read any instructions – installed as per below and set as
default keyboard. (I didn’t read the instructions as i don’t believe
you should need instructions for a keyboard).
Installation:
No problems, followed below.
Look:
Good on both horizontal and vertical
Pros:
Almost 100% success on accuracy as opposed to around 70-80 on
traditional qwerty
Speed – slow at first but given the accuracy same as qwerty
Areas for improvement/suggestions:
Delete and space button need to be swapped around – my left thumb
wants to be used as the space option (as it is on a full keyboard)
Unable to get into extra menus at all (managed once but cannot
replicate)
Unable to get the number screen up either (without instructions – a
new keyboard needs to be intuitive)
Gaps between the 3 boxes give you a letter - is it possible for no
input in these spaces?
Suggest have 2 extras (possibly by making the delete smaller) - 1 for
numbers and another (possibly a *) for the character input to allow u
to get into the areas
Cheers
Paul
OK here is my initial feedback:
Environment:
Did not read any instructions – installed as per below and set as
default keyboard. (I didn’t read the instructions as i don’t believe
you should need instructions for a keyboard).
Installation:
No problems, followed below.
Look:
Good on both horizontal and vertical
Pros:
Almost 100% success on accuracy as opposed to around 70-80 on
traditional qwerty
Speed – slow at first but given the accuracy same as qwerty
Areas for improvement/suggestions:
Delete and space button need to be swapped around – my left thumb
wants to be used as the space option (as it is on a full keyboard)
Unable to get into extra menus at all (managed once but cannot
replicate)
Unable to get the number screen up either (without instructions – a
new keyboard needs to be intuitive)
Gaps between the 3 boxes give you a letter - is it possible for no
input in these spaces?
Suggest have 2 extras (possibly by making the delete smaller) - 1 for
numbers and another (possibly a *) for the character input to allow u
to get into the areas
Cheers
Paul
Ob1
Oct 18, 2009, 10:06:09 PM10/18/09
to ZetaType
FROM EVAN
Hi, Obi.
An update after a few days:
1) I really like it! The keyboard is attractive, which goes a long way
in getting people to adopt it.
2) It provides its own visual cues, which is good. You can look
forward to a very thin manual.
Some comments:
1) I'm not at the stage yet where I can stop using my slide-out
keyboard right away, at least for time-sensitive tasks. I'm not sure
whether that's a features issue, or simply that I'm a coward. I'll try
and force myself more.
2) For switching keyboards, perhaps there should be an alternate
scheme, such as a fourth column with up/down arrows, or another button
on the bottom to go with space and delete. As I understand it,
switching keyboards is now a big swipe. I always seem to type
something when trying to switch. Also, the symbols seem more difficult
to find than the caps.
3) Touch typing is far more difficult (at least for now) than looking.
I've been trying to do it with 3 fingers (one for each row) and with
one finger. Can you give me some hints?
3.5) If in fact there's a big disparity between touch-typing and
looking, perhaps an alternative to the qwerty keyboard would make
touch-typing easier.
4) I've just encountered an error after re-booting the phone:
The application ZetaType (process com.zetatype.zetatype) has
stopped unexpectedly. Please Try again.
Force close
It came up twice, but the keyboard is still there. I can't give you
any advice on how to duplicate it, but will keep an eye out to see
whether it happens again.
Anyway, my little bit to keep you on your toes. Thanks for letting me
try it out!
Best,
Evan
Hi, Obi.
An update after a few days:
1) I really like it! The keyboard is attractive, which goes a long way
in getting people to adopt it.
2) It provides its own visual cues, which is good. You can look
forward to a very thin manual.
Some comments:
1) I'm not at the stage yet where I can stop using my slide-out
keyboard right away, at least for time-sensitive tasks. I'm not sure
whether that's a features issue, or simply that I'm a coward. I'll try
and force myself more.
2) For switching keyboards, perhaps there should be an alternate
scheme, such as a fourth column with up/down arrows, or another button
on the bottom to go with space and delete. As I understand it,
switching keyboards is now a big swipe. I always seem to type
something when trying to switch. Also, the symbols seem more difficult
to find than the caps.
3) Touch typing is far more difficult (at least for now) than looking.
I've been trying to do it with 3 fingers (one for each row) and with
one finger. Can you give me some hints?
3.5) If in fact there's a big disparity between touch-typing and
looking, perhaps an alternative to the qwerty keyboard would make
touch-typing easier.
4) I've just encountered an error after re-booting the phone:
The application ZetaType (process com.zetatype.zetatype) has
stopped unexpectedly. Please Try again.
Force close
It came up twice, but the keyboard is still there. I can't give you
any advice on how to duplicate it, but will keep an eye out to see
whether it happens again.
Anyway, my little bit to keep you on your toes. Thanks for letting me
try it out!
Best,
Evan
Ob1
Oct 18, 2009, 10:08:24 PM10/18/09
to ZetaType
Thank you Paul. We are planning to put in a number of visual aids to
help reduce the need for explanation as to how to use the Keyboard.
The final design of the keyboard beyond the 3 main buttons is still in
flux so we may experiment with some of the button configurations you
mentioned.
-O
help reduce the need for explanation as to how to use the Keyboard.
The final design of the keyboard beyond the 3 main buttons is still in
flux so we may experiment with some of the button configurations you
mentioned.
-O
Ob1
Oct 18, 2009, 10:18:20 PM10/18/09
to ZetaType
Thank you Evan. We are maintaining a bug list and are currently
working on a major version change taking in the feedback from the
Alpha so far plus a ton of internal product roadmap enhancements.
One of the major enhancements is more detailed and automated
analytics. This will allow us to open out the test to a larger group
more efficiently.
But of course we want to reduce the bug count as much as possible
before we do this. There will be some significant functionality
goodies as well.
It is important to stress again that any feedback from you guys will
help us mold the product. So if you want to help sculpt your ideal
keyboard for Android please keep those comments coming!
:-)
With regards to switching keys we are still trying different options
and in later stages this will be an area of experimentation. So
please stay tuned. We are by no means settled on exactly how that
will work.
With respect to touch typing accuracy - this is an important issue.
Any suggestions you all may have are welcome. We have an early
version of the code with a learning algorithm that tries to increase
sliding prediction accuracy via learning from user errors. Another
idea that we are considering is some form of tactile or audible (if
turned on) feedback upon pressing a key to help a user confirm that
they have pressed the correct key.
Alternative Key layouts are on the roadmap! :-) We are focussed on
the sliding accuracy at the moment but it is interesting that you
think that accuracy could be improved by simply changing the layout.
This is something we will have to think about internal.
working on a major version change taking in the feedback from the
Alpha so far plus a ton of internal product roadmap enhancements.
One of the major enhancements is more detailed and automated
analytics. This will allow us to open out the test to a larger group
more efficiently.
But of course we want to reduce the bug count as much as possible
before we do this. There will be some significant functionality
goodies as well.
It is important to stress again that any feedback from you guys will
help us mold the product. So if you want to help sculpt your ideal
keyboard for Android please keep those comments coming!
:-)
With regards to switching keys we are still trying different options
and in later stages this will be an area of experimentation. So
please stay tuned. We are by no means settled on exactly how that
will work.
With respect to touch typing accuracy - this is an important issue.
Any suggestions you all may have are welcome. We have an early
version of the code with a learning algorithm that tries to increase
sliding prediction accuracy via learning from user errors. Another
idea that we are considering is some form of tactile or audible (if
turned on) feedback upon pressing a key to help a user confirm that
they have pressed the correct key.
Alternative Key layouts are on the roadmap! :-) We are focussed on
the sliding accuracy at the moment but it is interesting that you
think that accuracy could be improved by simply changing the layout.
This is something we will have to think about internal.
CS from Cinci
Oct 19, 2009, 10:26:33 AM10/19/09
to ZetaType
Good morning Obi! Here are my thoughts so far:
- The interface is very visually pleasing, and the three main buttons
are very easy to use.
- I have been using the slide left / slide right as opposed to the
delete and space keys, but even using this method, the two buttons
below are necessary. Perhaps this is a bit redundant?
- I find that I get to the end of a long word and I've misspelled one
letter towar the beginning. Currently, the only way to fix this is to
delete every letter all the way back to the mistake and retype it. I
know you are working on error correction, and that feature will
probably solve this problem.
- It definitely has a learning curve, but I've gotten much more
accurate after the first few days' use.
- Chris S.
- The interface is very visually pleasing, and the three main buttons
are very easy to use.
- I have been using the slide left / slide right as opposed to the
delete and space keys, but even using this method, the two buttons
below are necessary. Perhaps this is a bit redundant?
- I find that I get to the end of a long word and I've misspelled one
letter towar the beginning. Currently, the only way to fix this is to
delete every letter all the way back to the mistake and retype it. I
know you are working on error correction, and that feature will
probably solve this problem.
- It definitely has a learning curve, but I've gotten much more
accurate after the first few days' use.
- Chris S.
Ob1
Oct 19, 2009, 10:48:09 AM10/19/09
to ZetaType
Thanks Chris. Thanks for the feedback.
We have the same concern about the redundancy of the space or delete
but we are not sure which is the better option to go for. We put both
live with a view to seeing which approach people prefer. Out of
interest, which do you prefer?
You are the second person to mention the need for a quick way to
navigate around the text without deleting. This is very interesting
for us. One possibility is to potentially take the buttons at the
bottom and change them so that they no longer perform a delete and
space but instead move you backwards and forwards one character.
Maybe a long press will cause them to fast scroll backwards or
forwards. Another alternative would be to make a slide to the left
and the left bottom button or a slide to the right on the right bottom
button perform these text navigation actions.
Would love thoughts on this.
As to the learning curve, there definitely is one. Our job is to try
and minimise this (although it will never get to zero) and maximise
the benefit over alternative keyboards.
-O
We have the same concern about the redundancy of the space or delete
but we are not sure which is the better option to go for. We put both
live with a view to seeing which approach people prefer. Out of
interest, which do you prefer?
You are the second person to mention the need for a quick way to
navigate around the text without deleting. This is very interesting
for us. One possibility is to potentially take the buttons at the
bottom and change them so that they no longer perform a delete and
space but instead move you backwards and forwards one character.
Maybe a long press will cause them to fast scroll backwards or
forwards. Another alternative would be to make a slide to the left
and the left bottom button or a slide to the right on the right bottom
button perform these text navigation actions.
Would love thoughts on this.
As to the learning curve, there definitely is one. Our job is to try
and minimise this (although it will never get to zero) and maximise
the benefit over alternative keyboards.
-O
Ob1
Nov 10, 2009, 8:25:40 AM11/10/09
to ZetaType
Feedback to in...@zetatype.com from Roy.
Dear zeta,
I have been anxiously awaiting zeta type, but I have say that I am
quite disappointed in some regards. Although I still like the 3 button
configuration, I can't say the same for the added 2 buttons (space
etc). As a G1 user I don't care about the space, because I only use
virtual keyboard for short input. The added two buttons go against the
added suggestions/predictive feedback that I had suggested. I hope you
will alow these buttons to be opt-out of. Also, I liked it better when
the 3 buttons clicked to eachother and filled the screen in portrait
(or filled the sides)
Also, for landscape typing, it might be a good idea to show one or two
more 9 button buttons. Maybe numbers and punctuation.
I hope these suggestions are useful. I shall keep zeta on my phone
incase it gets better.
Kind regards,
Roy
Dear zeta,
I have been anxiously awaiting zeta type, but I have say that I am
quite disappointed in some regards. Although I still like the 3 button
configuration, I can't say the same for the added 2 buttons (space
etc). As a G1 user I don't care about the space, because I only use
virtual keyboard for short input. The added two buttons go against the
added suggestions/predictive feedback that I had suggested. I hope you
will alow these buttons to be opt-out of. Also, I liked it better when
the 3 buttons clicked to eachother and filled the screen in portrait
(or filled the sides)
Also, for landscape typing, it might be a good idea to show one or two
more 9 button buttons. Maybe numbers and punctuation.
I hope these suggestions are useful. I shall keep zeta on my phone
incase it gets better.
Kind regards,
Roy
Ob1
Nov 10, 2009, 8:34:05 AM11/10/09
to ZetaType
Hello Roy. Thanks for the feedback!
We will definitely consider this. We have been working hard on many
alternatives but in the end we decided to get this out to the Android
Market and start getting more feedback good or bad.
It has definitely been discussed to remove the bottom space and
delete. In this case we have a number of other things to consider.
1. Do you like the way that you shift by sliding from the bottom of
the screen? If so, an alternative design we could try would be to
remove the space and delete buttons but but keep a very small (2 - 3
pixels) gap at the bottom so people can slide up from off the screen
on to the screen (a bit like you can on the Palm Pre to get certain
options). The alternative would be to reintroduce the long press
functionality as per the original version in the video.
2. In terms of the keyboard layout we could look at offering two
screen layouts. Both with spaces and without. This should not be too
challenging.
3. We have previously resisted adding new buttons as we were
concerned about the learning cycle when using it. But we will look in
to how we can do this. This is a little more involved for us to
deliver but we can get back to you.
If you want to see other feedback and continue to give us input could
I suggest that you join our ZetaType google group :
http://groups.google.com/group/zetatype
Thank again!
On Nov 10, 1:25 pm, Ob1 <obinw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Feedback to i...@zetatype.com from Roy.
We will definitely consider this. We have been working hard on many
alternatives but in the end we decided to get this out to the Android
Market and start getting more feedback good or bad.
It has definitely been discussed to remove the bottom space and
delete. In this case we have a number of other things to consider.
1. Do you like the way that you shift by sliding from the bottom of
the screen? If so, an alternative design we could try would be to
remove the space and delete buttons but but keep a very small (2 - 3
pixels) gap at the bottom so people can slide up from off the screen
on to the screen (a bit like you can on the Palm Pre to get certain
options). The alternative would be to reintroduce the long press
functionality as per the original version in the video.
2. In terms of the keyboard layout we could look at offering two
screen layouts. Both with spaces and without. This should not be too
challenging.
3. We have previously resisted adding new buttons as we were
concerned about the learning cycle when using it. But we will look in
to how we can do this. This is a little more involved for us to
deliver but we can get back to you.
If you want to see other feedback and continue to give us input could
I suggest that you join our ZetaType google group :
http://groups.google.com/group/zetatype
Thank again!
On Nov 10, 1:25 pm, Ob1 <obinw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Feedback to i...@zetatype.com from Roy.
Ob1
Nov 10, 2009, 10:09:31 AM11/10/09
to ZetaType
Dear Zeta,
from my use of the zeta keyboard (portrait mode only and only for
short inputs), I do not consider this shifting to be very relevant. I
am not sure how other people will use Zeta, but this is my experience.
The sliding itself seems like a good way to shift to the other button
layouts, but I would make it like the notification bar (so you can
slide it open, but tapping doesnt do anything). I still consider this
sliding to oppose your philosophy of blind typing on a screen so I
hope you will include the option to disable it (maybe have three
options, 2 buttons, slider like the notifcation bar and just the three
buttons option, but with the longpress to activate the other buttons).
I like yourback on the second point about the keyboard layout. I
realise that this is a manner of preference. I like buttons connecting
eachother, others like the iphone look.
On the third point; you might also have the seperate space and delete
buttons in that menu, but then next to the three buttons instead of
below it. That gives additional typing comfort without taking away the
space for suggestions/predictive feedback.
Thanks for your response!
Roy
from my use of the zeta keyboard (portrait mode only and only for
short inputs), I do not consider this shifting to be very relevant. I
am not sure how other people will use Zeta, but this is my experience.
The sliding itself seems like a good way to shift to the other button
layouts, but I would make it like the notification bar (so you can
slide it open, but tapping doesnt do anything). I still consider this
sliding to oppose your philosophy of blind typing on a screen so I
hope you will include the option to disable it (maybe have three
options, 2 buttons, slider like the notifcation bar and just the three
buttons option, but with the longpress to activate the other buttons).
I like yourback on the second point about the keyboard layout. I
realise that this is a manner of preference. I like buttons connecting
eachother, others like the iphone look.
On the third point; you might also have the seperate space and delete
buttons in that menu, but then next to the three buttons instead of
below it. That gives additional typing comfort without taking away the
space for suggestions/predictive feedback.
Thanks for your response!
Roy
Ob1
Nov 10, 2009, 10:09:53 AM11/10/09
to ZetaType
Thanks. Adding this feedback to our Google group as well. All of
your feedback is reasoned and sensible. It is much appreciated.
your feedback is reasoned and sensible. It is much appreciated.
Cillit Bang
Nov 11, 2009, 6:17:49 AM11/11/09
to ZetaType
I have just been testing ZetaTYPE on my HTC Hero.
First up: I like the concept and the execution.
Just a few observations:
- The process seems to crash when my phone goes to sleep (i.e. screen
dims, screen lock comes on) when the keyboard is open. This happened
to me twice as I was reading the web site on my laptop to figure some
stuff out whilst testing. It's still usable after unlocking the screen
again, so whether it resurrects itself or the error message is not
right I cannot say.
- It took me a while to figure out how to reach the capitals and the
numbers. I know now it's on your blog, but I could not find it on the
product pages (I was stumped, as the movie tells me to hold the
keyboard, but that doesn't seem to do anything. This could be Hero-
related, which seems to be different from stock Android in handling
'long clicks').
- As to the navigating around the text without deleting: this is not a
problem for me, as on my Hero I can just tap inside the text to place
the cursor, then use the trackball to move to the precise character I
want to change or delete. Again, this could be different from other
Android phones.
All in all a nice addition to the soft keyboard arena. Thanks.
Cillit
First up: I like the concept and the execution.
Just a few observations:
- The process seems to crash when my phone goes to sleep (i.e. screen
dims, screen lock comes on) when the keyboard is open. This happened
to me twice as I was reading the web site on my laptop to figure some
stuff out whilst testing. It's still usable after unlocking the screen
again, so whether it resurrects itself or the error message is not
right I cannot say.
- It took me a while to figure out how to reach the capitals and the
numbers. I know now it's on your blog, but I could not find it on the
product pages (I was stumped, as the movie tells me to hold the
keyboard, but that doesn't seem to do anything. This could be Hero-
related, which seems to be different from stock Android in handling
'long clicks').
- As to the navigating around the text without deleting: this is not a
problem for me, as on my Hero I can just tap inside the text to place
the cursor, then use the trackball to move to the precise character I
want to change or delete. Again, this could be different from other
Android phones.
All in all a nice addition to the soft keyboard arena. Thanks.
Cillit
Ob1
Nov 11, 2009, 1:41:27 PM11/11/09
to ZetaType
Thanks Cillit for your feedback. We're glad to hear that overall, you
are enjoying the use of the keyboard!
On your feedback:
1. The crashes are a great concern to us. The code is written such
that it should auto-recover but crashes shouldn't happen. With your
permission I would like to contact you to get more details on this.
Is this ok?
2. The long press feature is not currently enabled. We are planning to
re-activate this soon. To see upcoming features please visit
blog.zetatype.com. On the right panel is a list of upcoming features.
Once again thanks for using Zeta!
are enjoying the use of the keyboard!
On your feedback:
1. The crashes are a great concern to us. The code is written such
that it should auto-recover but crashes shouldn't happen. With your
permission I would like to contact you to get more details on this.
Is this ok?
2. The long press feature is not currently enabled. We are planning to
re-activate this soon. To see upcoming features please visit
blog.zetatype.com. On the right panel is a list of upcoming features.
Once again thanks for using Zeta!
Alexander Han
Nov 15, 2009, 10:20:14 AM11/15/09
to ZetaType
First thing I noticed on my Motorola Droid was that in portrait mode,
it only showed the first two buttons. The third button ran off the
screen. It looks ok in landscape, but I don't want to have to keep
rotating the phone to use the keyboard.
it only showed the first two buttons. The third button ran off the
screen. It looks ok in landscape, but I don't want to have to keep
rotating the phone to use the keyboard.
Ob1
Nov 16, 2009, 12:18:35 PM11/16/09
to ZetaType
Hi Alexander. The Droid is an issue. The initial version was not
designed for the increased resolution. This is also on our todo list
to resolve. It is not currently scheduled for the next release (due
out very soon) but if we can fit it in easily we will otherwise it
will be a subsequent release.
Thanks for the feedback!
-O
designed for the increased resolution. This is also on our todo list
to resolve. It is not currently scheduled for the next release (due
out very soon) but if we can fit it in easily we will otherwise it
will be a subsequent release.
Thanks for the feedback!
-O
xxjmoxx
Dec 1, 2009, 11:11:25 PM12/1/09
to ZetaType
Can you make it so you can hold down the delete button, so we wouldn't
have to delete one letter with one tap?
Thanks, Jon
have to delete one letter with one tap?
Thanks, Jon
Obi Nwosu
Dec 3, 2009, 8:17:20 PM12/3/09
to zeta...@googlegroups.com
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I forwarded this to one of our developers and we discussed internally. We can do this but it will likely be going in a major release. We are really close to a release with Droid support, the ability to turn off and on Vibrate mode, better button detection and a host of bugs fixes and other stuff. We want to get this out of the door then start working on the next set of changes.
We are also restarting the process of including proper text prediction. However we will likely want to add a long press for delete feature in sooner then that.
Hope that helps!
-O
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