Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket

[Phil Buell]

What is stopping us from building our own  government style leadership process? something that will be already set up to go into action when their world comes crashing down around them. Granted it would take some doing,but they really don't care enough about us to really pay enough attention to realize what's going on until it would/could be established.I mean isn't that kinda the idea of the occupation. Start our own party!!! Call it the "People's Freedom Party. And if you think about it there are enough of us(the99%) to fund our own party and hopefully enough people to vote our candidate into office. I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it our way. After all if that's what it takes to get one of our own in the presidency and to take over congress to make the necessary changes then why don't we concentrate on that?! Then we can concentrate on dissolving the FED and the Big banks and eventually do away with the monetary system completely. We could show the world why we are the greatest country in the world!!!! I myself am willing to give up myself to do whatever it takes to make the change needed to make this country and eventually the world a better place! Call stupid,dreamer or even Ghandi but if more people don't start thinking this way nothing is ever going to change!!!

[Jens]

I think they may have had that in some Zeitgeist newsletter I read,
though it was a bit dated, I think its still a viable option or
solution. I think it would be a great idea, especially to get heard
and to bring awareness of it. It would still need quite a bit of
funding and support though I think, If I can find the newsletter ill
try to post it, im not sure if they run a newsletter anymore.

[Nick Polimeni]

We've heard this before: 

I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it our way. (I think I could write some 50 + pages on why that's not an idea that can be won with.)

Is the idea still being sold in 12th grade Government class? 

Only a couple of times in US history did a 3rd party won, when those who belonged to the existing party took a different name, and moved over... 

It'd be a lot easier to work on building the RBE... 

Cheers, Nick

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Phil Buell <buel...@yahoo.com> wrote:

What is stopping us from building our own  government style leadership process? something that will be already set up to go into action when their world comes crashing down around them. Granted it would take some doing,but they really don't care enough about us to really pay enough attention to realize what's going on until it would/could be established.I mean isn't that kinda the idea of the occupation. Start our own party!!! Call it the "People's Freedom Party. And if you think about it there are enough of us(the99%) to fund our own party and hopefully enough people to vote our candidate into office. I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it our way. After all if that's what it takes to get one of our own in the presidency and to take over congress to make the necessary changes then why don't we concentrate on that?! Then we can concentrate on dissolving the FED and the Big banks and eventually do away with the monetary system completely. We could show the world why we are the greatest country in the world!!!! I myself am willing to give up myself to do whatever it takes to make the change needed to make this country and eventually the world a better place! Call stupid,dreamer or even Ghandi but if more people don't start thinking this way nothing is ever going to change!!!

--

[Nick Polimeni]

Resource Based Economy. In short, intelligent and sustainable management of world resources drive the economy, rather than money.

On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 8:45 PM, labordiger <labor...@gmail.com> wrote:

what is RBE... ?

On Jan 5, 11:04 am, Nick Polimeni <npolim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> We've heard this before:

> *
> *
> *I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it
> our way. *(I think I could write some 50 + pages on why that's not an idea

--
Nick

[Ai: Man]

.. I would put "instead of" where you write "rather than" .. ;) Nice short describtion you created, cool.  

"gram:MA of natur":3

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[Nick Polimeni]

Yeah, good point. It's better English. Nick

--
Nick

[labordiger]

To do away with the monetary system I think we need to be owners of
the work that we do. I for example have no way of getting off of the
pay check life style while I am in debt.

On Jan 5, 12:01 am, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Benjamin Goodman]

Yeah. Extrapolating from this, we need to be the owners of our art as well. The way to reject what would be SOPA and other legislation which I am sure will come up is to produce and distribute our own creative commons music, film and art ourselves. I believe the rejection of the system will begin with steps like these.

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Ben Goodman
(858) 692-5696
bgood...@gmail.com

[labordiger]

Yes. Could there be such a thing or have there been any small groups
of workers who use art as a learning tool? I would never make it as an
artist but I think workers learning to express thoughts is a good
start in learning to present ideas about other things too.

> bgoodma...@gmail.com

[Ai: Man]

Hi,
I actually do nothing but art promoting social change.. but it`s hard to break through the noise out there. If you want to support what I do, I can post some links for you. I won`t bother right now, if you`re not interested.

[Phil Buell]

Go back and watch the addendum movie. Noone is really in debt because it is all made up of nothing, money is air,fiction the only reason people think they're in debt is because they want us to think that. Think about it, if tomarrow everyone stopped paying their electric bill do you think that's going to stop our need for electricity? No, the only reason we pay for it is because they say it's worth something monetarily. We have finite resources on this planet and if they keep exploiting them and wasting them eventually we will run out of them. As long as there is someone saying that these things cost to have or produce then nothing is going to change for the better.

---

From: labordiger <labor...@gmail.com>
To: Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 PM
Subject: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket

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[Curtis White]

Well but there are costs associated with producing things. For example, to build a dam to produce electricity isn't free. It requires all the materials needed to produce that dam. Those materials also must come from somewhere. Unless people can or will work for free, there is no way to get those resources (like mining coal, etc.). The RBE works because everyone works for free and therefore there are no costs associated with producing things. But in a monetary system everything costs money to produce.

Curtis

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to zeitgeistmovemen...@googlegroups.com.

[Benjamin Goodman]

Magnetic generators. They exist, they WORK, and can be built from goods you can buy on Amazon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttY7yLXZSpo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlO8UDsc-Fc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFfhMR1uidg

We could have one in every home.

--
Ben Goodman
(858) 692-5696

bgood...@gmail.com

[Phil Buell]

I agree there will always be a demand for something. Once again watch the addendum movie and it will explain. It says eventually everything would be automated such as the car makers today, 2/3 of the labor is done by robots and computers. It way more involved than I want to get into right now. Just watch the second movie and it'll explain how that type of lifestyle will work.

---

From: Curtis White <soa...@gmail.com>
To: zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket

[Curtis White]

I've seen all the movies and understand how RBE works but right now we aren't there. Until we get there there will always be costs associated with anything. 

I hope to see us move to an RBE in my lifetime but I'm not so optimistic with the way people are. They are so set in their way it seems nearly impossible to get them to look beyond what they already know. Maybe after a couple generations die off their kids might be open minded enough to foster in such a big change.

[LMH]

We all know there is a huge gap between our society now and and RBE. Instead of being "not so optimistic"-- try finding ways to move in the right direction. Lead by example. Start a local money-free resource sharing co-op. Lead by example. Of course it's true that it might take the majority a long time to come around. But the more people who ARE in the know who actually DO something to move forward, the faster the change will happen. I find it much more liberating, knowing what i know, to focus on the possibilities this awareness brings, and I work toward that end with every day that passes.

 

Check out our local version of an RBE, Portland RBC (Resource Based Community) on Facebook. It's a developing community that tries to answer the question of "what's next? and how do we get there?" by sharing resources of all kinds collectively within a trusted group of people who understand and agree to the RBE concepts.

 

Whatever you do, find some inspiration somewhere!! And don't give up. :)

 

-LMH

[labordiger]

 art promoting social change. I would look for how I can use that to
do the talking for me. It does sound interesting. A few links would
help. I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[labordiger]

Could it be that people don't and won't work for free because we are
manipulated and trained over some thousands of years to think in terms
of personal gain. Could this be unnecessary? If so what is the
transition approach we are going to use? Convincing everybody to just
do it, or opt out of the existing systems may never happen if it is
true that the manipulation comes from people who successfully avoid
work by getting others to do the work. Is this a trick or a necessity
of moving product? What are the most basic requirements to get people
to want to move product? Do we have any experimentation to provide us
with information? I don't know of any experimentation or theory. It
seems we need to start it our selves

On Jan 31, 5:25 pm, Curtis White <soar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well but there are costs associated with producing things. For example, to
> build a dam to produce electricity isn't free. It requires all the
> materials needed to produce that dam. Those materials also must come from
> somewhere. Unless people can or will work for free, there is no way to get
> those resources (like mining coal, etc.). The RBE works because everyone
> works for free and therefore there are no costs associated with producing
> things. But in a monetary system everything costs money to produce.
>
> Curtis
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Go back and watch the addendum movie. Noone is really in debt because it
> > is all made up of nothing, money is air,fiction the only reason people
> > think they're in debt is because they want us to think that. Think about
> > it, if tomarrow everyone stopped paying their electric bill do you think
> > that's going to stop our need for electricity? No, the only reason we pay
> > for it is because they say it's worth something monetarily. We have finite
> > resources on this planet and if they keep exploiting them and wasting them
> > eventually we will run out of them. As long as there is someone saying that
> > these things cost to have or produce then nothing is going to change for
> > the better.

> >   ------------------------------
> > *From:* labordiger <labordi...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 PM
> > *Subject:* [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain

[labordiger]

The addendum movie doesn't explain how common people can transition
away from the monetary system that I can see. How do we do this? What
is my first move?

On Jan 31, 4:42 pm, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Go back and watch the addendum movie. Noone is really in debt because it is all made up of nothing, money is air,fiction the only reason people think they're in debt is because they want us to think that. Think about it, if tomarrow everyone stopped paying their electric bill do you think that's going to stop our need for electricity? No, the only reason we pay for it is because they say it's worth something monetarily. We have finite resources on this planet and if they keep exploiting them and wasting them eventually we will run out of them. As long as there is someone saying that these things cost to have or produce then nothing is going to change for the better.
>
> ________________________________

> From: labordiger <labordi...@gmail.com>

> To: Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 PM
> Subject: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket
>
> To do away with the monetary system I think we need to be owners of
> the work that we do. I for example have no way of getting off of the
> pay check life style while I am in debt.
>
> On Jan 5, 12:01 am, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > What is stopping us from building our own  government style leadership process? something that will be already set up to go into action when their world comes crashing down around them. Granted it would take some doing,but they really don't care enough about us to really pay enough attention to realize what's going on until it would/could be established.I mean isn't that kinda the idea of the occupation. Start our own party!!! Call it the "People's Freedom Party. And if you think about it there are enough of us(the99%) to fund our own party and hopefully enough people to vote our candidate into office. I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it our way. After all if that's what it takes to get one of our own in the presidency and to take over congress to make the necessary changes then why don't we concentrate on that?! Then we can concentrate on dissolving the FED and the Big banks and eventually do away with the
> >  monetary system completely. We could show the world why we are the greatest country in the world!!!! I myself am willing to give up myself to do whatever it takes to make the change needed to make this country and eventually the world a better place! Call stupid,dreamer or even Ghandi but if more people don't start thinking this way nothing is ever going to change!!!
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Zeitgeist Movement (PDX)" group.
> To post to this group, send email to zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com.

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to zeitgeistmovemen...@googlegroups.com.

[labordiger]

It isn't nearly impossible. As the conditions of corruption make life
harder for everybody the idea of transition to other ideologies are
more accessible. We have been past that for some time. Accessible does
not mean active. To be active we need to be working and discussing how
to access the potential. I call it mini-entrepreneurship or self-
guidance. This self-guidance is an information correction activity
that needs to be done on a regular basis. It involves small group
discussion and activity such as what ever activity entrepreneurs do on
a regular basis. The start up involves awareness of human potential
and capacity to learn, to interpret, describe and grow ideas, self-
education within a group, a small amount of experimenting in
comparison to education and work but each activity done on a regular
basis. It also involves investigating or interviewing other
entrepreneurs, business owners, citizens and government to look for
needs that are not being met as well as they could be. It is the
awareness/Consciousness I am after not participating in the existing
monetary systems. We need this awareness to understand our selves at
work, with relationships to people, with nurturing ideas and with
learning.

On Feb 2, 2:36 am, Curtis White <soar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen all the movies and understand how RBE works but right now we
> aren't there. Until we get there there will always be costs associated with
> anything.
>
> I hope to see us move to an RBE in my lifetime but I'm not so optimistic
> with the way people are. They are so set in their way it seems nearly
> impossible to get them to look beyond what they already know. Maybe after a
> couple generations die off their kids might be open minded enough to foster
> in such a big change.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > I agree there will always be a demand for something. Once again watch the
> > addendum movie and it will explain. It says eventually everything would be
> > automated such as the car makers today, 2/3 of the labor is done by robots
> > and computers. It way more involved than I want to get into right now. Just
> > watch the second movie and it'll explain how that type of lifestyle will
> > work.

> >   ------------------------------
> > *From:* Curtis White <soar...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:25 PM
> > *Subject:* Re: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the

> > brain bucket
>
> > Well but there are costs associated with producing things. For example, to
> > build a dam to produce electricity isn't free. It requires all the
> > materials needed to produce that dam. Those materials also must come from
> > somewhere. Unless people can or will work for free, there is no way to get
> > those resources (like mining coal, etc.). The RBE works because everyone
> > works for free and therefore there are no costs associated with producing
> > things. But in a monetary system everything costs money to produce.
>
> > Curtis
>

> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Go back and watch the addendum movie. Noone is really in debt because it
> > is all made up of nothing, money is air,fiction the only reason people
> > think they're in debt is because they want us to think that. Think about
> > it, if tomarrow everyone stopped paying their electric bill do you think
> > that's going to stop our need for electricity? No, the only reason we pay
> > for it is because they say it's worth something monetarily. We have finite
> > resources on this planet and if they keep exploiting them and wasting them
> > eventually we will run out of them. As long as there is someone saying that
> > these things cost to have or produce then nothing is going to change for
> > the better.

> >   ------------------------------
> > *From:* labordiger <labordi...@gmail.com>
> > *To:* Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>

> > *Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 PM
> > *Subject:* [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain

[labordiger]

These are good ideas but they are not powerful. The monetary system is
powerful but it spoils. Would you rather go to an RBE system spoiled
or not at all? The monetary system is fire in the heart. Sometimes you
have to fight fire with fire. To know your destructor is to know how
to handle yourself about it. To know your enemy is to know his
weakness. Embrace the monetary system. It seems that it is having
influence on you that you don't understand. It is thousands of years
in the making and very complex some of which is not seen. Does the
unseen come to bite us when we let go of it? Did we learn from such
results in the past helping to form our conduct of today?
Also check out my comment to: On Feb 2, 2:36 am, Curtis White

<soar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've seen all the movies and understand how RBE works but right now we
> aren't there. Until we get there there will always be costs associated with
> anything.

It helps explain things.

> > On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 5:57 PM, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I agree there will always be a demand for something. Once again watch the
> >> addendum movie and it will explain. It says eventually everything would be
> >> automated such as the car makers today, 2/3 of the labor is done by robots
> >> and computers. It way more involved than I want to get into right now. Just
> >> watch the second movie and it'll explain how that type of lifestyle will
> >> work.

> >>   ------------------------------
> >> *From:* Curtis White <soar...@gmail.com>
> >> *To:* zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com

> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:25 PM
> >> *Subject:* Re: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the

> >> brain bucket
>
> >> Well but there are costs associated with producing things. For example,
> >> to build a dam to produce electricity isn't free. It requires all the
> >> materials needed to produce that dam. Those materials also must come from
> >> somewhere. Unless people can or will work for free, there is no way to get
> >> those resources (like mining coal, etc.). The RBE works because everyone
> >> works for free and therefore there are no costs associated with producing
> >> things. But in a monetary system everything costs money to produce.
>
> >> Curtis
>

> >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Phil Buell <buellp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Go back and watch the addendum movie. Noone is really in debt because it
> >> is all made up of nothing, money is air,fiction the only reason people
> >> think they're in debt is because they want us to think that. Think about
> >> it, if tomarrow everyone stopped paying their electric bill do you think
> >> that's going to stop our need for electricity? No, the only reason we pay
> >> for it is because they say it's worth something monetarily. We have finite
> >> resources on this planet and if they keep exploiting them and wasting them
> >> eventually we will run out of them. As long as there is someone saying that
> >> these things cost to have or produce then nothing is going to change for
> >> the better.

> >>   ------------------------------
> >> *From:* labordiger <labordi...@gmail.com>
> >> *To:* Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>

> >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 29, 2012 7:33 PM
> >> *Subject:* [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain

[labordiger]

We are in a verbalization race. It is not all just people we are
running against. Some of it is conditions, ideologies, problems,
knowledge or the lack of it. It is a race to use better ideologies and
they are not so hard to come by. That’s why experimentation is needed.
When experimentation is performed words are used to describe intents
and hence skills are developed, knowledge is formed.
Experimentation needs to be done in multiple types of ideologies.
Permaculture is a good ideology, so is RBE, self-trained group
entrepreneurship, economics without profit base or profit irrelevance,
which could also be self-managed distribution of monetary gain used to
develop culture and community consistency that help protect a good
lifestyle for the worker. Experiments under self-guided conditions
with moving product would bring understanding of existing purpose and
design. If you don’t have a way of transition that we everybody will
want to do, then you need to open your mind to more options. Just
admit it, you are rejecting money because of the pains and waste it
causes under existing hierarchy arrangements. You seem to think that
it is the money that causes the hierarchy abuses and not the other way
around.  What came first money or hierarchy abuse?

On Jan 5, 11:04 am, Nick Polimeni <npolim...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We've heard this before:

> *
> *
> *I mean if we have to play the game to be part of the game why not play it
> our way. *(I think I could write some 50 + pages on why that's not an idea

[Barbara Nelson]

Local RBE is Supportland. Support Portland local businesses. Check it
out! Also be a change agent by
participating in the local Earth Institute for change.
The training is Free...open source.

Sent from my iPhone

[labordiger]

I watched the movie Addendum again to verify that I am not clear on
how to think about Zeitgeist and a RBE but found instead that
experimenting with moving product is a must. We must have clear
knowledge of what we are able to do and how we are going to do it
before we can move to a RBE. If we don’t have another way to do it we
need to ask ourselves some hard questions. Are we going to know what
to do if the monetary system collapses? I think we are going to be put
in prison after a major collapse if we show any sign that we may be an
unwanted influence to the still existing cooperative working public.

I am hoping to get some information as I am trying to move to move to
better ideologies than what I was taught. The movie shows that our
economic system was taken over by a small corrupt group. Each time
this attempt was made in history it has always been through government
that any chance of lasting success was possible. I don't understand
why so many people think it is money that is our poison. It is true
that the corruption is so often tied to money but no matter what
system or medium of exchange we use, if people avoid work there will
be corruption. Maybe we are just living ideologies of old world
conditioning and fail to update our selves because of the corruptions
and wars caused by the corrupt. On the other hand it may be true that
using a RBE system would eliminate the influence from human frailties
to avoid work. Even if we know it to be true we still need a method or
concept of transition.

If we try to drop the monetary system we need to acknowledge that we
are trying to do two things at once. 1) Stop using a system based on
money. 2) Over power a corrupt influence. Is it any harder or more
risky than doing one at a time?

On Feb 12, 2:37 pm, Barbara Nelson <barbaranelson...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Local RBE is Supportland.  Support Portland local businesses. Check it
> out! Also be a change agent by
> participating in the local Earth Institute for change.
> The training is Free...open source.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

> ...
>
> read more »

[waycooljr]

Labordiger,

You talk a lot about "avoiding labor", but you don't really define or qualify this term anywhere. It is quite ambiguous. I am not clear on the angles that you take in your analysis of what steps will happen, what steps need to happen, etc. I feel like you are somewhat disconnected from the discussions that we have in Portland around building resilient communities based on gift and resource sharing and how these can both be a first step and allow for solutions to emerge. Assuming that we are going to get a bunch of answers and not just information from a movie such as Addendum is going to be as problematic as looking to any historic source for verbatim solutions to situations now. Are you actually in Portland and connected with any of these ideas or groups? If so I hope to meet and speak with you at a future meeting or event and understand better where you are coming from.

-Thanks

[Phil Buell]

The trick to doing this RBE is to have everything in place when the old system collapses. There will always be the need for some work, but eventually the majority of the work will be done by technology ran by computers. Here is another point to thinkg of; the only reason people think things are worth any money value is because the 1% says so, but take away the money and we still need certain things to survive on this planet. As the addendum said the earth has finite resources that once they are gone they are gone, thus is why we need the RBE so we stop wasting what we don't need and find an infinite resource such as wind power,tidal power or the sun. They have found that the sun produces enough power in one hour to satisfy everyone with electricity for I beleive one year, but we haven't been able to figure out how to harness the power. Everything we have now will still be here when the money  system crashes. We will still need running water,electricity,clothes and even some oil products. As for labor, there will always be the need for physical labor, but as the good doctor said from the Venus Project, when the monetary system is gone think of all the spare time you'll have when you don't have to work for a living, YOU JUST LIVE. That's why I keep saying that it wouldn't be that difficult of a change over, we just have to have everyone on the planet on the same page.

---

From: labordiger <labor...@gmail.com>
To: Zeitgeist Movement (PDX) <zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 7:14 PM
Subject: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket

> >>>> zeitgeistmovementpdx+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

> >>>> For more options, visit this group at
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>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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[Phil Buell]

Please go back and watch all three movies without any interuptions, that way you get a better chance at retaining the information there. Beleive me it's all discussed in the movies. If your not getting the gist of the idea go online and type in The Venus Project and read up on these ideas. Granted not everything is going to fall into place right away because it's gonna take a little to clean up the mess left behind by the old system but eventually everything will fall into place as we evolve the RBE lifestyle. I will try to make ot to a gathering as soon as I can, I would like to listen and share my ideas and opinions with others other than on the computer.

---

From: waycooljr <jesse.g...@gmail.com>
To: zeitgeistm...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2012 8:29 PM
Subject: [Zeitgeist (PDX)] Re: Here's an idea to toss around the brain bucket

Labordiger,

You talk a lot about "avoiding labor", but you don't really define or qualify this term anywhere. It is quite ambiguous. I am not clear on the angles that you take in your analysis of what steps will happen, what steps need to happen, etc. I feel like you are somewhat disconnected from the discussions that we have in Portland around building resilient communities based on gift and resource sharing and how these can both be a first step and allow for solutions to emerge. Assuming that we are going to get a bunch of answers and not just information from a movie such as Addendum is going to be as problematic as looking to any historic source for verbatim solutions to situations now. Are you actually in Portland and connected with any of these ideas or groups? If so I hope to meet and speak with you at a future meeting or event and understand better where you are coming from.

-Thanks

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[Curtis White]

As you said we will need to find alternate energy sources. But things like wind really just provide energy at the expense of tearing up tons of land and killing thousands of wild birds. I expect power from the oceans would be similar. We would put tons of big ugly things in the ocean that would destroy our oceans and the life in them. We really need to find a way to harness energy so it is not at the expense of the planet. That is what we are doing now with oil. Wind farms just replace that with another energy source that tears up the planet, just in a different way. I really think ultimately the sun will be the energy source of the future but we really need to invest a lot more research into it than we are now.

The other thing that it seems nobody is really paying any attention to is finding a way to protect us in the case an asteroid comes from behind a planet and plows into earth. It has happened in the past and is almost certain to happen again. Right now we have no way to stop it, avoid it or protect people from it. If we don't protect ourselves from things like that it won't matter what kind of economy we have in the future.

Curtis