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fun things for non christians to do in a christian church

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Peter The Great

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Nov 11, 2002, 2:56:15 PM11/11/02
to
Pull aside an unruly child in a pre-school Sunday School class and say: "If
you're bad in here, you'll go to Hell."

Put stray dogs in coat closets.

Un-tune the piano.

Replace the pianist's sheet music with "Stairway to Heaven".

Going through all the hymnals, mark song 666.

Find an empty seat, and ask the person next to it: "Is this seat SAVED?"

Toss around a giant beach ball before service, like at Grateful Dead concerts.

Ten minutes before it starts, find a kid in the front rows, hand him a dollar,
and tell him to ask the preacher: "Would you rather be stoned or crucified?"

Hide copies of Hustler inside the pulpit. Point them out.

Start a wave.

Do cool things with the lighting.

When attendance is taken, sign on fake names like "Hugh G. Rection" and "Oliver
Klozoff".

Wear an ankh or a new-age crystal pendant.

When the choir sings, roll your eyes and grumble: "Oh, Christ! Are they gonna do
another SONG?"

Make up your own words to the songs.

Twenty minutes into the service, look at your watch, stand up, and say: "Oh
shit. This isn't the wedding!" Run out quickly.

Eat dry Cap'n Crunch through the entire service.

If there is a crying baby, go over and tell the mother: "IF YOU DON'T SHUT THAT
FUCKING THING UP SO HELP ME GOD I'LL KILL IT!!!"

Dress all in black, or in camo.

Pierce the body of a tiny animal with stainless-steel wire. Wear it in your ear
as jewellery. If you are male, wear two. Change sets for the evening service.

If it is an Easter service, wear a pastel jacket, tie, and matching shorts. If
you are male, wear a floral-print dress instead.

At a church dinner, scoop up a forkful of mashed potatoes. Announce that you can
see an image of Jesus.

Place blocks of dry ice near the air ducts. Take off your shoes and socks.

Hide near the baptismal pool with a block of sodium. At the first mention of
"fire and brimstone", throw it in.

Inflate balloons, then send them off.

Mark places in the Bible or hymnal with religious-themed Far Side cartoons.

Turn in the Bible to the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20: 3-17). Draw in asterisks
and write exceptions at the bottom of the page.

Make the sun reflect off your watch into the preacher's face.

Make calls to 900 numbers on the phone in the kitchen.

During the service, play with plastic dinosaurs. If someone asks what you're
doing, tell them: "These are dinosaurs. They ruled the earth over 65 million
years ago."

Discreetly position a number of bottle rockets on the floor. Discreetly light
them.

Snicker every time the preacher talks about someone being stoned,
especially Stephen.

Dip communion wafers in communion wine. Eat it and exaggerate on how good it is.

When they pass around the collection plate, drop in a piece of paper with Pat
Robertson's MasterCard number.

Turn to your neighbour, whisper: "This do in remembrance of me" and lick them.

Fart, and have a friend shout: "Hark! An angel has spoken!"

Blow bubbles.

Fake a possession.

Distribute condoms.

Speak in tongues.

Ask where the nearest ashtray is.

Drool in the collection plate.

Ask someone what they think about the Book of Peleponnesians. After they tell
you, inform them that there is no Book of Peleponnesians.

After a Catholic service, stand outside and tell Polish jokes. When someone
points out that Pope John Paul II came from Poland, act embarrassed.

Show unusual interest in any reference to the word "Ministry".

At a church supper, bring a casserole with a ring or piece of a wristwatch
embedded inside.

Overnight, have the stained-glass windows replaced with new ones depicting
comical, erotic, or death-related imagery. Send the bill to the pastor.

Write on the bathroom wall: "The eyes of the LORD are upon you!!!"

Spread the word that there'll be a rave party at the address of the church next
Saturday at midnight.


Kenneth C Stahl

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Nov 11, 2002, 5:53:18 PM11/11/02
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Take a cup and dip it into the holy water and pretend to drink it. Make a
noticable grimace and act like you are about to vomit and deliberately spill
the water on the floor.

When the priest comes around with the wafers, bump his hand so that all of the
wafer go flying.

When the chalice comes around grab it and if possible, drink the entire
contents and then belch loudly and exclaim that it was pretty good blood.
Vampire teeth would be an extra.

When the bell rings during the elevation (sorry, if you aren't Catholic you
won't know this one), start singing "My ding-a-ling"

Stand up and point at the crucifix and say loudly "He sure must have pissed
someone off".

As the minister walks by, wipe you nose on his stole.

Carry a Satanic Bible and sit down next to some old ladies and make sure the
book is clearly visible.

Draw large pentagrams on the back of your hand. Make sure that everyone around
you can see them.

Sneak into the sacristy and replace the incense with a very pungent (although
harmless) substitute.

Take a pair of drumsticks and loudly accompany the organ by striking the
drumsticks on the pew in front of you.

Wear a jacket with the head of a goat embroidered on the back. Sit up front.

Douglas D. Anderson

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Nov 11, 2002, 7:31:48 PM11/11/02
to

"Kenneth C Stahl" <kts...@yahoo.com> wrote

> Wear a jacket with the head of a goat embroidered on the back. Sit up front.

LOL


Spitfire

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Nov 11, 2002, 9:36:34 PM11/11/02
to
Kenneth C Stahl wrote:
>
> Draw large pentagrams on the back of your hand. Make sure that everyone around
> you can see them.

Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection _from_ "Evil".

.....superstitious idjits.....
--
Spitfire
You done yet?


Chremes

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Nov 13, 2002, 11:41:38 PM11/13/02
to

"Spitfire" <spitf...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:3DD0669F...@my-deja.com...

> Kenneth C Stahl wrote:
> >
> > Draw large pentagrams on the back of your hand. Make sure that everyone
around
> > you can see them.
>
> Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
_from_ "Evil".

I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five. hex
= 6, penta = 5


Spitfire

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Nov 14, 2002, 6:49:09 AM11/14/02
to

Obviously ya don't know any jews.

rafwit

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Nov 14, 2002, 9:40:46 AM11/14/02
to

> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
> _from_ "Evil".
>
> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
hex
> = 6, penta = 5
>
it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
whatever


Douglas D. Anderson

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Nov 14, 2002, 3:47:06 PM11/14/02
to

"rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> wrote

Right you are... and the 'proper English' word derived from the same
OHG root is 'hag'.


The Return of Mel

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Nov 14, 2002, 4:42:38 PM11/14/02
to
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> wrote in
message <3dd3b5e9$1...@news.uia.ac.be>:

ja broer... dit is een honderd persent korrek...

--
smash yer modem, reboot, kill yerself
------------------------------------------
did this question your answer? Y [ ] N [ ]
click here for more kiddie porn &
ferocious viruses which will tear your
screen apart by the pixels!
http://www.24ghz.co.za
------------------------------------------

David Simpson

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Nov 15, 2002, 10:48:44 PM11/15/02
to
On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
furiously:

Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.

Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.

--
David
Remove "farook" to reply
At the bottom of the application where it says
"sign here". I put "Sagittarius"

Douglas D. Anderson

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Nov 16, 2002, 5:40:24 AM11/16/02
to

"David Simpson" <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote

> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
> furiously:
>
> >
> >> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
> >> _from_ "Evil".
> >>
> >> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
> >hex
> >> = 6, penta = 5
> >>
> >it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> >whatever
> >
> Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
> has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.
>
> Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
> Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
> and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
> a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.
>

Considering Crowley died in 1947, that must have been the first thing
he did from the other side... and people say that little wimp didn't have
some strange powers.


Spitfire

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Nov 16, 2002, 7:36:50 AM11/16/02
to
David Simpson wrote:
>
> On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
> furiously:
>
> >
> >> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
> >> _from_ "Evil".
> >>
> >> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
> >hex
> >> = 6, penta = 5
> >>
> >it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> >whatever
> >
> Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
> has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.
>
> Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
> Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
> and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
> a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.

.....the sledge hammer helped...

Spitfire

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Nov 16, 2002, 8:19:06 AM11/16/02
to

....he met Lovecraft,...gotta go dig up his bones for profit...

Ærchie

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Nov 16, 2002, 8:37:42 AM11/16/02
to
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 13:19:06 GMT, Spitfire <spitf...@my-deja.com>
:

--
For fainting: rub the person's chest,
or if a lady, rub her arm above the hand instead.

The Return of Mel

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Nov 16, 2002, 12:08:45 PM11/16/02
to
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:40:24 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
<d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote in message
<sgpB9.48971$Em.17...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>:

if I recall correctly Crowley was addicted to morphine... even his vaunted
powers could not save him from that...

he died in poverty...

SkippyPB

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Nov 16, 2002, 12:35:10 PM11/16/02
to
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:18:44 +1030, David Simpson
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> enlightened us:

>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
>furiously:
>
>>
>>> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
>>> _from_ "Evil".
>>>
>>> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
>>hex
>>> = 6, penta = 5
>>>
>>it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
>>whatever
>>
>Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
>has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.
>
>Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
>Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
>and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
>a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.

I don't believe that is exactly true. I think the pentagram has been
around much longer than that. The pentacle is probably the most
important symbol in witchcraft. It is a five pointed star with a
single point facing upright. A written or drawn pentacle is a
pentagram. The pentagram is the witches symbol of power and
protection and used to control elemental forces. Pentagrams are also
used in meditation exercises where each point of the star is
associated with a specific quality, attribute, concept, emotion or
name of a pagan deity.

The magicians pentacle is also referred to as the pentacle of solomon.
It represents God or man and the four elements of nature, five senses,
five wounds of Jesus, and the five points of man.

The pentagram with five points of the star - one point up and two
down, enclosed in a circle has existed and been used for thousands
of years. The first records of it's use is dating back 5500 years,
and was used in the ancient Mesopotamia, where it was used by the
rulers, as a symbol of power and energy in the stasis of the four
corners of the world known by then.

Regards,


////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Real Signs:

In a Tokyo Bar:

SPECIAL COCKTAILS FOR THE LADIES WITH NUTS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Remove nospam to email me.

Steve

Spitfire

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Nov 16, 2002, 5:12:33 PM11/16/02
to

Earth, Air, Fire, Water, and the Goddess of Fertility.

Nyarlathotep, Hastur, Cthugha, Cthulhu, Shub Niggerath.

The ones that should really scare you are the Masons though,...they're real...



> The magicians pentacle is also referred to as the pentacle of solomon.
> It represents God or man and the four elements of nature, five senses,
> five wounds of Jesus, and the five points of man.
>
> The pentagram with five points of the star - one point up and two
> down, enclosed in a circle has existed and been used for thousands
> of years. The first records of it's use is dating back 5500 years,
> and was used in the ancient Mesopotamia, where it was used by the
> rulers, as a symbol of power and energy in the stasis of the four
> corners of the world known by then.

I take it math wasn't their biggest contribution...

Pix

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Nov 16, 2002, 9:28:49 PM11/16/02
to
The 'whatever' you missed was Afrikaans. A heks is a witch, did not even
know that it was heks in German too, thanks for educating me. ;o)

Bye

Pix


"Douglas D. Anderson" <d...@rr.rochester.com> wrote in message

news:eZTA9.118615$c51.35...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

Douglas D. Anderson

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Nov 16, 2002, 10:16:27 PM11/16/02
to

"Pix" <p...@mweb.co.za> wrote
news:3dd6f...@news1.mweb.co.za...

> The 'whatever' you missed was Afrikaans. A heks is a witch, did not even
> know that it was heks in German too, thanks for educating me. ;o)
>
> Bye
>
> Pix

You need to learn how to follow a thread... You responded to my post,
but the "whatever" was in the post to which I was responding. The logic
of who said what should be consistent in English, Afrikaans, German, or
any language. What I had added is that the English word of common
origin to 'hexe' and 'heks' is 'hag', an Old English word for 'witch', identical
in sense to the German 'hexe'.

Spitfire

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Nov 17, 2002, 12:04:23 AM11/17/02
to
"Douglas D. Anderson" wrote:
>
> "Pix" <p...@mweb.co.za> wrote
> news:3dd6f...@news1.mweb.co.za...
> > The 'whatever' you missed was Afrikaans. A heks is a witch, did not even
> > know that it was heks in German too, thanks for educating me. ;o)
> >
> > Bye
> >
> > Pix
>
> You need to learn how to follow a thread... You responded to my post,
> but the "whatever" was in the post to which I was responding. The logic
> of who said what should be consistent in English, Afrikaans, German, or
> any language. What I had added is that the English word of common
> origin to 'hexe' and 'heks' is 'hag', an Old English word for 'witch', identical
> in sense to the German 'hexe'.

.....give him a gold star.....

Spitfire

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Nov 17, 2002, 12:13:52 AM11/17/02
to
"Keith E." wrote:
>
> Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:18:44 +1030 was a day just like any other,

> until David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
> >furiously:
> >
> >>
> >>it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> >>whatever
> >>
> >Stop showing your ignorance.
>
> So other than the fucked up grammar, what part of "it's not hex
> to mean six" is incorrect?

He must be suffering from one of his spells.

David Simpson

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Nov 17, 2002, 8:21:02 AM11/17/02
to
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:40:24 GMT, "Douglas D. Anderson"
<d...@rr.rochester.com> typed furiously:

The word "circa" means around that time. So it was a little earlier in
the twentieth century. It's still a recent innovation and had nothing
to do with witchcraft before then.

If people would research their subjects before making outlandish
claims I wouldn't have so many laughs but it may make a more civil
place to hang out. The idiots^H^H^H^H^H^Hpeople who consider "Charmed"
to be a documentary amuse me greatly.

Ærchie

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Nov 17, 2002, 9:40:03 AM11/17/02
to
On Sun, 17 Nov 2002 23:51:02 +1030, David Simpson
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> :

The Concise Oxford Dictionary gives "pentagram" a birth in 1833 and
gives, as one meaning, "formerly a mystical symbol credited with
magical virtues." That source gives no mystical or even Jewish meaning
for the hexagram. And does not even list "Hex" - but I already knew
that from having tried to use it in a Scrabble game many years ago!
(Webster does, however)

I do not believe that the OD is always correct with its "earliest
uses" as, during my researches, I have found several words in
documents older than the date shown in the dictionary.

The people who believe Crowley had credibility amuse me as well.

Ærchie

Spitfire

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Nov 17, 2002, 9:36:28 PM11/17/02
to

....same goes for that "Touched By An Angel" crap.....

Spitfire

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Nov 17, 2002, 9:38:00 PM11/17/02
to
"Keith E." wrote:
>
> Sun, 17 Nov 2002 05:13:52 GMT was a day just like any other,
> Or showing off.

.....by trying to add an extra point.....

David Simpson

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Nov 18, 2002, 8:22:55 AM11/18/02
to
On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:36:57 -0500, Keith E. <i.m....@aol.com> typed
furiously:

>Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:18:44 +1030 was a day just like any other,
>until David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>

>>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
>>furiously:
>>
>>>

>>>it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
>>>whatever
>>>
>>Stop showing your ignorance.
>

>So other than the fucked up grammar, what part of "it's not hex
>to mean six" is incorrect?

Because in the word "hexagram" the prefix "hex" does mean six. A
"hexagram" is a geometrical figure with six points joined by drawn
lines. It has nothing to do with witches or heks. By heck I wish some
people would learn to read English.

Paul Hume

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Nov 18, 2002, 10:51:50 AM11/18/02
to
> >> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
> >> _from_ "Evil".
> >>
> >> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
> hex
> >> = 6, penta = 5
> >>
> >it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> >whatever
> >
> Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
> has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.
>
> Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
> Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
> and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
> a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.


You are displaying some pretty fierce ignorance yourself. Let's see
now...

- yuou are conflating the Greek word hex (six) with the German word
hexen, which is also in the Scndinavian languages as Haexen, that is,
with an umlaut on the a to form the ae dipthong. That means witch. The
English word hex, as in hexing someone or a hex sign, derives from the
German source, not the Greek, and thus has nothing to do with the
number 6 (whether you are a number or a free man).

- the goat head in the inverted pentagram thing was popularized by
Lavey in the late 60's. You will not find it in Crowley's literature
or Gardner's. You will find the inverted pentagram used in both
Crowley's system of magick and in Gardnerian Wicca, but not the
nitwitted Hollywood upside-down pentgram is the Debbil thing.

- Both symbols appear in grimoires dating back at least to the late
Renaissance, as well as some of the speculative works of occultists
like Agrippa.

- Crowley arguably did not assist Gardner directly in reviving or
creating Wicca. He initiated him into the OTO, to be sure, but was
himself busy with the Book of Thoth project, the book and working with
Frieda Harris on the cards, in the last years of his life, which is
when the two men met. He was quite ill (the asthma for which he was
prescribed morphine was doing a number on him), so only had time to
write a couple of major works in the mid-40's. We see no reference to
working with Gardner on a new initiatory system in his diaries, which
were usually detailed about magical work. Mind you, Gardner used a lot
of Crowley (and a lot of Mathers, and a lot of Leland, and a lot of
Agrippa, etc.) in his rituals, but this seems to have been from
published sources.

Paul

Niels Peter

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Nov 18, 2002, 11:43:37 AM11/18/02
to
"Paul Hume" <paul...@lan2wan.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:ab28278b.02111...@posting.google.com...


> > >it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> > >whatever

Just in case any of you are interested in linguistics: it's in Danish that the word for witch is "heks".

Niels Peter

Spitfire

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Nov 18, 2002, 2:35:40 PM11/18/02
to
David Simpson wrote:
>
> On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:36:57 -0500, Keith E. <i.m....@aol.com> typed
> furiously:
>
> >Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:18:44 +1030 was a day just like any other,
> >until David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
> >>furiously:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
> >>>whatever
> >>>
> >>Stop showing your ignorance.
> >
> >So other than the fucked up grammar, what part of "it's not hex
> >to mean six" is incorrect?
>
> Because in the word "hexagram" the prefix "hex" does mean six. A
> "hexagram" is a geometrical figure with six points joined by drawn
> lines. It has nothing to do with witches or heks. By heck I wish some
> people would learn to read English.

.....or watch the movie "Warlock".....

Spitfire

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Nov 18, 2002, 3:05:05 PM11/18/02
to
Niels Peter wrote:
>
> Just in case any of you are interested

Nope.

Spitfire

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Nov 18, 2002, 3:08:17 PM11/18/02
to
Paul Hume wrote:
>
> You are displaying some pretty fierce ignorance yourself. Let's see
> now...
>
> - yuou are conflating the Greek word hex

....the irony here sure isn't conflating.....

David Simpson

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Nov 19, 2002, 9:55:50 AM11/19/02
to
On 18 Nov 2002 07:51:50 -0800, paul...@lan2wan.com (Paul Hume) typed
furiously:

>> >> > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
>> >> _from_ "Evil".
>> >>
>> >> I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
>> hex
>> >> = 6, penta = 5
>> >>
>> >it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
>> >whatever
>> >
>> Stop showing your ignorance. A hexagram has six points and a pentagram
>> has five. The hexagram is also know as the Star of David.
>>
>> Witches and witchcraft had nothing to do with either sign until Gerald
>> Gardner and Aleister Crowley revived the Wicca religion, circa 1950,
>> and one of them decided that the pentagram could be made to look like
>> a goat's head if it was inverted and distorted slightly.
>
>
>You are displaying some pretty fierce ignorance yourself. Let's see
>now...
>
>- yuou are conflating the Greek word hex (six) with the German word
>hexen, which is also in the Scndinavian languages as Haexen, that is,
>with an umlaut on the a to form the ae dipthong. That means witch. The
>English word hex, as in hexing someone or a hex sign, derives from the
>German source, not the Greek, and thus has nothing to do with the
>number 6 (whether you are a number or a free man).
>

I agree with the fact that "hex" or "hexen" is a derivation from
German/Scandinavian. However the word "hexagram" has nothing to do
with hexing. Its derivation is from the Greek "hex" for the number
six.

>- the goat head in the inverted pentagram thing was popularized by
>Lavey in the late 60's. You will not find it in Crowley's literature
>or Gardner's. You will find the inverted pentagram used in both
>Crowley's system of magick and in Gardnerian Wicca, but not the
>nitwitted Hollywood upside-down pentgram is the Debbil thing.
>
>- Both symbols appear in grimoires dating back at least to the late
>Renaissance, as well as some of the speculative works of occultists
>like Agrippa.
>
>- Crowley arguably did not assist Gardner directly in reviving or
>creating Wicca. He initiated him into the OTO, to be sure, but was
>himself busy with the Book of Thoth project, the book and working with
>Frieda Harris on the cards, in the last years of his life, which is
>when the two men met. He was quite ill (the asthma for which he was
>prescribed morphine was doing a number on him), so only had time to
>write a couple of major works in the mid-40's. We see no reference to
>working with Gardner on a new initiatory system in his diaries, which
>were usually detailed about magical work. Mind you, Gardner used a lot
>of Crowley (and a lot of Mathers, and a lot of Leland, and a lot of
>Agrippa, etc.) in his rituals, but this seems to have been from
>published sources.
>

I will bow to your, obviously more familiar, erudition on this topic.
I was not referring to the source of anything except the word
"hexagram" which is derived from the greek "hex" meaning six. The root
of that word has no relation to any other similar sounding sources or
derivations. The uses to which the symbol may be put bear no relation
to the derivation of the word.

SkippyPB

unread,
Nov 19, 2002, 1:41:03 PM11/19/02
to
On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 15:33:56 -0500, Keith E. <i.m....@aol.com>
enlightened us:

>Mon, 18 Nov 2002 23:52:55 +1030 was a day just like any other,


>until David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 16 Nov 2002 21:36:57 -0500, Keith E. <i.m....@aol.com> typed
>>furiously:
>>
>>>Sat, 16 Nov 2002 14:18:44 +1030 was a day just like any other,
>>>until David Simpson <faro...@picknowl.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 14 Nov 2002 15:40:46 +0100, "rafwit" <r...@dom204.be> typed
>>>>furiously:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
>>>>>whatever
>>>>>
>>>>Stop showing your ignorance.
>>>
>>>So other than the fucked up grammar, what part of "it's not hex
>>>to mean six" is incorrect?
>>
>>Because in the word "hexagram" the prefix "hex" does mean six. A
>>"hexagram" is a geometrical figure with six points joined by drawn
>>lines. It has nothing to do with witches or heks. By heck I wish some
>>people would learn to read English.
>

>ARGH!!! Here's the post. Find the hexagram. Good luck, you
>have 24 hours, starting... <cue cheesy game show music> NOW!
>
>>" Message-ID: <3dd3b5e9$1...@news.uia.ac.be>


>>"
>>" > > Actually a "Pentagram" aka a "Hex Mark", and was used as a protection
>>" > _from_ "Evil".
>>" >
>>" > I thought that the hex mark had six points but the pentagram only five.
>>" hex
>>" > = 6, penta = 5
>>" >

>>" it's not hex to mean six, but "heks" meaning "witch" in german or dutch or
>>" whatever
>>"

Here's the problem. Hex, as a word by itself, indeed means curse with
an origin of Pennsylvania Dutch from German hexen to hex from Hexe
witch from Middle High German hecse from Old High German hagzissa.

Hexa- or hex- as a prefix or hex. as an abbreviation means six. But
hex by itself means curse. So, as in the above example, Hex Mark
means a mark of a curse or spell.

Regards,

////
(o o)
-oOO--(_)--OOo-

Real Signs:

Hotel in Zurich:

BECAUSE OF THE IMPROPRIETY OF ENTERTAINING
GUESTS OF THE OPPOSITE SEX IN THE BEDROOM,
IT IS SUGGESTED THAT THE LOBBY BE USED FOR THIS PURPOSE

Paul Hume

unread,
Nov 20, 2002, 10:16:00 AM11/20/02
to
David -

> >- yuou are conflating the Greek word hex (six) with the German word
> >hexen, which is also in the Scndinavian languages as Haexen, that is,
> >with an umlaut on the a to form the ae dipthong. That means witch. The
> >English word hex, as in hexing someone or a hex sign, derives from the
> >German source, not the Greek, and thus has nothing to do with the
> >number 6 (whether you are a number or a free man).
> >
> I agree with the fact that "hex" or "hexen" is a derivation from
> German/Scandinavian. However the word "hexagram" has nothing to do
> with hexing. Its derivation is from the Greek "hex" for the number
> six.

Oh, nbo question there. Hexagram is derived from Greek. However, I
thought (and may have missed a transition in the maze-like delights of
following usenet threads) that you were criticizing the term "hex
mark" when referring to a pentagram - which is a kind of obscure
usage, I would agree, but derived from the German usage, and found in
cultures like Ozark and Pennsy Dutch.

If somewhere up-thread someone equated hexagram and hexes, my
apologies for misreading the thread and taking off after you in error.

Paul

SkippyPB

unread,
Nov 20, 2002, 12:32:45 PM11/20/02
to
On Wed, 20 Nov 2002 01:25:50 +1030, David Simpson
<faro...@picknowl.com.au> enlightened us:

>On 18 Nov 2002 07:51:50 -0800, paul...@lan2wan.com (Paul Hume) typed

Main Entry: hexa-
Variant(s): or hex-
Function: combining form
Etymology: Greek, from hex six -- more at SIX
1 : six <hexaploid>
2 : containing six atoms, groups, or equivalents <hexane>

Regards,

Douglas D. Anderson

unread,
Nov 20, 2002, 3:16:39 PM11/20/02
to

"Paul Hume" <paul...@lan2wan.com> wrote

We'll get Twylight to scrub this thread after it's complete...she's sure
to have some old SOS pads laying around.


David Simpson

unread,
Nov 21, 2002, 5:30:08 AM11/21/02
to
On 20 Nov 2002 07:16:00 -0800, paul...@lan2wan.com (Paul Hume) typed
furiously:

>David -

Thanks Paul, apology accepted with grace. I suppose I started it to a
certain extent when I flamed someone who suggested that a hexagram and
a pentagram were the same geometric figure and that the hex part came
from witchcraft. I, perhaps, did not make my position clear enough in
the preceding posts.

Spitfire

unread,
Nov 21, 2002, 9:39:24 PM11/21/02
to

Now you have,....yer bending over....

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