UDW under seige - 5 student shot !
Hussein Suleman
PLEASE IGNORE THIS POSTING !!!
My news reader is at fault.
The incident is in the distant past by now and the site is long
closed.
sorry about the inconvenience ...
hsul...@pixie.udw.ac.za (Hussein Suleman) wrote:
>UDW is under seige
>
>A private military-style security company is preventing people
>from entering or leaving our university.
>
>Five students were shot yesterday by the police.
>
>Read all about what we are fighting for at our underground web site.
>
>http://elf.udw.ac.za/dislodge/
>
>
ttfn
hussein
Jean-Luc Bompard
Hussein Suleman wrote:
>
> UDW is under seige
>
> A private military-style security company is preventing people
> from entering or leaving our university.
>
> Five students were shot yesterday by the police.
>
> Read all about what we are fighting for at our underground web site.
>
> http://elf.udw.ac.za/dislodge/
You call yourselves students! I call you parasites and its a pity they
did not kill 500, there would then be room for genuine students who are
there to become useful people and not shitholes like you. Do the world a
favor noone wants to hear what you are fighting for, go f---ck
yourselves.
Japie Mare
tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu (Elmar Thomas) wrote:
>In article <323DDE...@iafrica.com>,
>I take it 'useful' people are those that post abuse at others on the
>net and propose killing political demonstrators.
>Never forget that it was students (among many others) that advanced
>the struggle for liberation in our country. If you're uncomfortable
>with the fact that SA is changing, say so. Don't shout about things
>you don't know about.
>FYI, the battle at UDW and UND is a reaction against deeply ingrained
>racism and discrimination against students. Read the netsite. Inform
>yourself.
>Tom
>--
>=======================================================
>E. Tom Thomas a luta continua
> Anthropology and Public Health, UC Berkeley
>=======================================================
AGGG BULLLLLL
Elmar Thomas
Mike Brown
Japie Mare wrote:
And the URL is a little broken at the same time!
Elmar Thomas
In article <51lfpb$e...@igw01.kidd.co.za>, Japie Mare <ma...@kidd.co.za> wrote:
>tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu (Elmar Thomas) wrote:
>>I take it 'useful' people are those that post abuse at others on the
>>net and propose killing political demonstrators.
>
>>Never forget that it was students (among many others) that advanced
>>the struggle for liberation in our country. If you're uncomfortable
>>with the fact that SA is changing, say so. Don't shout about things
>>you don't know about.
>
>>FYI, the battle at UDW and UND is a reaction against deeply ingrained
>>racism and discrimination against students. Read the netsite. Inform
>>yourself.
>
>>Tom
>
>
>
>AGGG BULLLLLL
>
A reply clearly based on hours of reflection and great intellectual
exertion.
T
Elmar Thomas
In article <3240EE...@iafrica.com>,
Jean-Luc Bompard <info...@iafrica.com> wrote:
>Really few words are necessary to comment on the philosophising of the
>US ignoramus.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Someone gonna tell him?
Jean-Luc Bompard
Elmar Thomas wrote:
>
> In article <323DDE...@iafrica.com>,
> Jean-Luc Bompard <info...@iafrica.com> wrote:
> >Hussein Suleman wrote:
> >>
> >> UDW is under seige
> >>
> >> A private military-style security company is preventing people
> >> from entering or leaving our university.
> >>
> >> Five students were shot yesterday by the police.
> >>
> >> Read all about what we are fighting for at our underground web site.
> >>
> >> http://elf.udw.ac.za/dislodge/
> >
> >You call yourselves students! I call you parasites and its a pity they
> >did not kill 500, there would then be room for genuine students who are
> >there to become useful people and not shitholes like you. Do the world a
> >favor noone wants to hear what you are fighting for, go f---ck
> >yourselves.
>
> net and propose killing political demonstrators.
>
> Never forget that it was students (among many others) that advanced
> the struggle for liberation in our country. If you're uncomfortable
> with the fact that SA is changing, say so. Don't shout about things
> you don't know about.
>
> FYI, the battle at UDW and UND is a reaction against deeply ingrained
> racism and discrimination against students. Read the netsite. Inform
> yourself.
>
> Tom
>
> =======================================================
> E. Tom Thomas a luta continua
> Anthropology and Public Health, UC Berkeley
> =======================================================
It seems to me that being a student did not teach you anything. Perhaps
it made you blind. If liberation means the right to destroy property,
destroy the environment, destroy the economy, make rich people poor and
poor people poorer, put in place a government of incompetent persons,
and give the illiterates, the criminals, the underage the vote, then the
students have succeeded. Yes the country is changing, not for the
better, but to join the mass of the liberated African countries, which
are today able to vote, but are nothing more than a morass of starving
humanity with a few despotic leaders at their helm.
Enjoy your liberation you moron.
Jean-Luc Bompard
Elmar Thomas wrote:
>
> In article <51lfpb$e...@igw01.kidd.co.za>, Japie Mare <ma...@kidd.co.za> wrote:
> >tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu (Elmar Thomas) wrote:
>
> >>net and propose killing political demonstrators.
> >
> >>Never forget that it was students (among many others) that advanced
> >>the struggle for liberation in our country. If you're uncomfortable
> >>with the fact that SA is changing, say so. Don't shout about things
> >>you don't know about.
> >
> >>FYI, the battle at UDW and UND is a reaction against deeply ingrained
> >>racism and discrimination against students. Read the netsite. Inform
> >>yourself.
> >
> >>Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> A reply clearly based on hours of reflection and great intellectual
> exertion.
>
> T
>
> =======================================================
> E. Tom Thomas a luta continua
> Anthropology and Public Health, UC Berkeley
> =======================================================
Elmar Thomas
In article <3240ED...@iafrica.com>,
Jean-Luc wrote:
>> Anthropology and Public Health, UC Berkeley
>> =======================================================
>
>It seems to me that being a student did not teach you anything. Perhaps
>it made you blind. If liberation means the right to destroy property,
>destroy the environment, destroy the economy, make rich people poor and
>poor people poorer, put in place a government of incompetent persons,
>and give the illiterates, the criminals, the underage the vote, then the
>students have succeeded. Yes the country is changing, not for the
>better, but to join the mass of the liberated African countries, which
>are today able to vote, but are nothing more than a morass of starving
>humanity with a few despotic leaders at their helm.
>Enjoy your liberation you moron.
Do I detect just a note of bitterness here? Vive le ressentiment!
Having been (and being) students has taught most of us that the only
people who have argued against giving votes to illiterate people are
those that feared being voted out of office by them. That those who
bewail destruction of property and the economy are those that owned
80% of what a country produced, and controlled the latter. That those
who oppose social change are the same ones that pull the 'give them
cake' card.
I'm glad you think me a moron. Wouldn't want to be in your good
books for anything in the world. And I will enjoy my liberation. Will
you?
Tom
Jean-Luc Bompard
better judgement, because like talking religion to religious fanatics,
it is wasting one's breath talking to social fanatics. But because it is
a public forum, what I say may make some sense to some of the more
intelligent people out there.
I was born in France and at the tender age of 10 was transplanted in
Black Africa. It was there that I grew up and saw what the white man
did. They were busy stuffing it up, but they were few in numbers, and
the damage was not so great. The African population was still small and
food was plentiful and there for the taking. In the space of 10 years so
called independence came and the few good things that white occupation
brought were destroyed and the bad things multiplied. The result is that
30 years later during which there was no white occupation these
countries are overpopulated with starving people, no industry, no
infrastructure, no education, and most of all no prospect of it getting
better.
At the age of 18, I arrived in South Africa, where so called "apartheid"
was in force. Sure there were bad things taking place, like white
schools were for white people, and white hospitals were for white people
and white beaches were for white people etc.. The white schools had
windows and furnitures, the grounds were clean and tidy. The hospitals
gave you treatment and were clean and healthy, the beaches were full of
tanned bodies and they were clean. Today thirty years later, there are
no more white schools. What we have instead are a whole lot of building
with windows and furnitures continuously broken if the teacher does not
listen to the "students". The grounds are filthy, covered in litter, the
grass is a meter high. The hospitals are place you go to if you want to
get sick. The cockroaches are the masters. The beaches are covered in
black bodies, and when they live what is left is a mound of empty
bottles, paper, used condoms and lost kids.
Do I sound bitter? You bet I do. 25 million black people did not have
the guts nor the brains to make it by themselves, they hijacked with the
help of the US what was built by a few white people and are proceeding
with the help of morons like you to destroy it. They call the RDP, the
Rapid Destruction Program. In Black language, it translates
as:Reconstruction and Development Program.
Last year I too was a student, and permit me to tell you that the world
needs people like you like the HIV virus.
Continue la "luta" and with a bit of luck you may end up like the five
dead students. Pity it was only five!
Cheer up, when you grow up read this letter again.
J.L.B.
Elmar Thomas
In article <325579...@iafrica.com>,
Jean-Luc Bompard <info...@iafrica.com> wrote:
As I said the first time - ressentiment is alive and well.
I'm not sure what feeling is more appropriate towards people like
you - anger or pity. I s'pose the latter. To think that you are
living in my country, surrounded by people you regard as inferior,
as stupid, as dirty, and as destructive does make me wonder, though,
why you are there.
Some of us _have_ grown up, Jean-Luc, and, it seems, have done so
long before you. If your text above is anything to go by, you have
a long way to go yet. We had to face the guns of a dying regime -
a regime you applaud and whose virtues (that served you admirably)
you selfishly extol. We were forced to leave the country we love, and
had to spend important and formative years in exile, while the likes
of you sucked dry the potential, wealth and beauty of our land. We
battled for change - even partial change - and are left with bitter
white men like you who have no more roots in our earth than the
highveld thunderstorms that sweep over Gauteng, and continue to pursue
their supremacist wet dreams.
I am sickened by this newsgroup; but, yes, the struggle continues.
Gys Dubbeld
In article <536qjt$4...@agate.berkeley.edu> tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu (Elmar Thomas) writes:
>From: tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu (Elmar Thomas)
>Subject: Re: UDW under seige - 5 student shot !
>Date: 5 Oct 1996 23:22:37 GMT
The problem with this thread is the assumptions that are made ... Maybe
one should look more closely at what exactly is being said:
>In article <325579...@iafrica.com>,
>Jean-Luc Bompard <info...@iafrica.com> wrote:
>>Against my better judgement, ..... bitterness cut...
>>I was born in France and at the tender age of 10 was transplanted in
>>Black Africa.
Why were you "transplanted into Africa"? When you were "transplanted were
those who had been living there originally in any way considered? Did
whoever "transplanted" you ask the local people if it was OK? Did the locals
agree that it was good and right that you should be "transplanted to
Africa?" after all no matter how they lived they were there first, so they
shoukd at least have been asked.
.....It was there that I grew up and saw what the white man
>>did. They were busy stuffing it up, but they were few in numbers, and
>>the damage was not so great.
Maybe the physical damage was "not so great", but the balance and
equilibrium of those societies had been seriously disturbed. The
indigenous societies were not perfect (no human society is) but there was
a certain balance between what the limited resources of the land could
produce and what the people could consume: by replacing subsistence farming
with cash crops and wage labour this balance was destroyed forever...
>>food was plentiful and there for the taking. In the space of 10 years so
>>called independence came and the few good things that white occupation
>>brought were destroyed and the bad things multiplied. The result is that
>>30 years later during which there was no white occupation these
>>countries are overpopulated with starving people, no industry, no
>>infrastructure, no education, and most of all no prospect of it getting
>>better.
Indeed, colonial powers simply moved out when they saw that the system was
unsustainable - colonialism, and your "transplantation" into Africa were the
result of colonial myths about "instant wealth" and "fabulous riches" .
When the colonial powers realised that, in fact, Africa was a relatively
poor continent that could not sustain exploitation for extended period of
time they withdrew. having in the meantime replaced the indigenous value
systems and leaving the local population little but an infrastructure
geared only to the comfort of the colonist and the lesson that exploiting
the land and their fellow Africans in the same way will somehow
deliver the African population the same, unsustainable, lifestyle than that
enjoyed by the former colonists.
>>At the age of 18, I arrived in South Africa, where so called "
apartheid"
>>was in force. Sure there were bad things taking place, like white
>>schools were for white people, and white hospitals were for white people
>>and white beaches were for white people etc.. The white schools had
>>windows and furnitures, the grounds were clean and tidy. The hospitals
>>gave you treatment and were clean and healthy, the beaches were full of
>>tanned bodies and they were clean.
Indeed, a lifestyle equal to the best that the wealthiest countries in
the world can offer - in a country with constant droughts and disastrous
floods, an infertile soil, no real competitive industry and a mining
industry that could only make a profit if the majority of workers were
paid starvation wages... the beautiful clean sophisticated schools,
hospitals, beaches etc could only be sustained through a process of
denying even the most basic of those things to the majority - if, in a
relatively poor country some people live like kings it is because others
are deprived of even the most basic things...
Today thirty years later, there are
>>no more white schools. What we have instead are a whole lot of building
>>with windows and furnitures continuously broken if the teacher does not
>>listen to the "students". The grounds are filthy, covered in litter, the
>>grass is a meter high. The hospitals are place you go to if you want to
>>get sick. The cockroaches are the masters. The beaches are covered in
>>black bodies, and when they live what is left is a mound of empty
>>bottles, paper, used condoms and lost kids.
Indeed, the infrastructure created to serve the need of 4million whites is
bound to come under pressure if it suddenly has to also serve the need of
the 35 million who have been deprived up to now. But, within the limits of
what is possible some of us are trying to cater for the needs. Yes,
facilities are under pressure but things can be built provided nobody in
this country expects that we all should be able to have a standard of
living equal to that of the characters in American soap operas. That is
impossible, but with realistic expectations a reasonable standard of
living can be achieved for all.
>>Do I sound bitter?
..... rest has been cut.
If you cannot live with Africa, maybe you belong somewhere else.
>As I said the first time - ressentiment is alive and well.
>I'm not sure what feeling is more appropriate towards people like
>you - anger or pity. I s'pose the latter. To think that you are
>living in my country, surrounded by people you regard as inferior,
>as stupid, as dirty, and as destructive does make me wonder, though,
>why you are there.
Agreed, this country would be btter off without him. He is like a thief who
is angry because he is being deprived of some of his ill-gotten gains.
>Some of us _have_ grown up, Jean-Luc, and, it seems, have done so
>long before you. If your text above is anything to go by, you have
>a long way to go yet. We had to face the guns of a dying regime -
>a regime you applaud and whose virtues (that served you admirably)
>you selfishly extol. We were forced to leave the country we love, and
>had to spend important and formative years in exile, while the likes
>of you sucked dry the potential, wealth and beauty of our land. We
>battled for change - even partial change - and are left with bitter
>white men like you who have no more roots in our earth than the
>highveld thunderstorms that sweep over Gauteng, and continue to pursue
>their supremacist wet dreams.
>I am sickened by this newsgroup; but, yes, the struggle continues.
>Tom
>--
>=======================================================
>E. Tom Thomas a luta continua
> Anthropology and Public Health, UC Berkeley
=======================================================
Gys
Jean-Luc Bompard
Whatever your colour, your age or your creed, I repeat it, you are a
pompous asshole. You do not have a clue what you are talking about, and
perhaps your verbosity is obscene, and is doing today far more harm for
the poor Africans than decades of apartheid have done. If I were you, I
would look for a job, and stop talking from a mouth which by all
accounts seems to have been put between your legs.
Come to Africa, it may open your eyes.
Elmar Thomas
In article <325EC4...@iafrica.com>,
An answer true to form. Wish I had more psych training to be able
to determine just where the insecurities come from that lead you to
respond to anything that challenges your racist ressentiment with
nothing more than vulgarities and abuse.
Contrary to you, I *am* African, I have lived in South Africa for
a large part of my life, interrupted only by forced exile (thanks
to the likes of you), and periods of work and study outside of the
country.
I have a job, but thank you for your kind enquiry. My mouth is
located in my face, and contrary to yours, it's connected in some
way to my brain. I try to think before I post to ngs. Kindly spare
me your pompous postings (?projection - Errol give us a hand on the
psychoanalysis plse), and shelve your paternalistic 'poor African'
verbiage. The colonial era is over.
Oh yeah, and get the fuck out of my country!
Me
On 12/10/1996 19:31, in message <53okli$f...@agate.berkeley.edu>, Elmar Thomas
<tho...@demog.qal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Oh yeah, and get the fuck out of my country!
AFAIK,
due to your position I would say your country is the United States of America
now...
Jokes apart, I have always supported the upliftment of the standard of minority
groups (in South Africa the majority group - our African brothers and sisters).
I AM a caucasian, but I REFUSE to believe that caucasians and africans can
behave in such a primitive manner...
We all know what happened...the previous government structure ("Apartheid
Regime" by the freedom fighters) made a big mistake by making the speration of
races a law, BUT let's not forget that other countries have done the same and
have NOT been judged...(example: Black and white seperation in the States
during the 50's and 60's - Martin Luther King's era)
I believe that we should finally stop slinging the mud at each other, shake
hands and try to understand each other better...
ONE CAN ARCHIEVE THAT, just by being sincerely friendly. Not just smiling, but
by sharing in the joys and sorrows of this country.
And YOU there, yes you in Berkeley, I don't know whether you have first hand
news of South Africa, but I would advise to double check, not simply believe in
what both the news and other people say...
Regards
Someone