yWriter and GoogleDocs

[Adam]

I use yWriter almost exclusive for my novel work - I love it, and I
think yWriter5 is lacking nothing to make it fully functional and
usable. I do, however, have an idea for some future version which
would make it absolutely phenomenal.

I use GoogleDocs for collaborative editing of tech docs, backup of
operation critical docs, etc. GoogleDocs has its issues, but its Word
equivalent is very good at storying rtf files.

GoogleDocs uses rtf files. yWriter uses rtf files. Why not connect
the two? I'm envisioning using GoogleDocs to (optionally) store
yWriter files. GoogleDocs allows the creation of folders, so all
files related to a project could be stored in a folder, thus not
intruding on other uses of GoogleDocs. All yWriter files, including
non-content files such as the .yw5 file, could easily be stored as
rtfs. What I'm seeing here is an option in yWriter which allows you
to provide a GoogleDocs login - if you provide it, all project files
are stored remotely on the GoogleDocs server. If you need to work
offline, yWriter could pull down a local version, allow you to work
with that offline, then replace the contents of the server version
when you are back online (some conflict resolution code may be
necessary, but if it's just one person working on the project, using
the GoogleDocs feature as a backup / central storage for work on
multiple machines, as opposed to using it as a collaborative tool,
then conflict resolution may not be an issue).

I see this as being hugely useful. I'm constantly create full project
backups and emailing them to myself so I can work on my project on
different machines. With this type of GoogleDocs integration, all I
would have to do is have yWriter installed on each machine, with my
GoogleDocs login info provided to both. I could then open the project
file remotely (perhaps a separate Open From GoogleDocs menu item,
which would look for a folder called yWriter, with subfolders
containing the project files for each project, where the main project
file always has a certain name or follows a certain naming convention,
so that the open dialog in yWriter would be able to display all
project - but only the project files and not all the content rtf
files). It would not only allow people to work on a project from
multiple computers, but it would also serve as a very effective backup
(GoogleDocs operates on a redundant server), and could possibly work
as an excellent way to do collaborative editing of a yWriter project
if conflict resolution issues were resolved (one solution I can think
of is that if a user is going to pull a project down for offline work,
it is "checked out" - as indicated by some small flag in the project
file on the GoogleDocs server - and cannot be edited or pulled offline
by any other user; once offline editing is done, it can be "checked
in" and collaborative writing again becomes possible; if all users are
working online, then conflict resolution becomes much less of an
issue, depending on how frequently changes are written to the
GoogleDocs server ... unless it's done Google-Wave style, in which
case there are zero conflict issues at all, but that would be
*significantly* harder to write).

Thoughts?

[Brian Payne]

While this would be very nice, there are some things on Google's end that will likely prevent it from happening, and that's without even taking a wild guess at what Simon would say about having to re-write everything to support Google.

Off the top of my head, I'll point out that Google does not like and takes steps to prevent applications that log in automatically to your Google account.  Whether this is something that can be coded around or not is an open question (probably yes, but with difficulty and subject to breakage whenever Google feels like it), but it's certainly a hassle.

Also, it destroys one of yWriters biggest assets, in my opinion, which is that it can be run off-line.  (Yes, so can Google Docs... using their widget, and only their widget.)

Now, a utility to automatically sync your yWriter data up with Google Docs?  I'd be all over that.  But I don't think it should be part of yWriter, myself.

--sofaspud
--

[Bethany]

While it wouldn't be quite as easy as storing everything on Google
Docs, here's how I make a project accessible from my work computer, my
personal laptop, and my old dinosaur desktop. It works across Windows
XP, Windows 2000, and Linux Mint Gloria (with Wine):

I use Dropbox (http://www.getdropbox.com/). It stores your files
online, but also in a folder in "My Documents" on any computer you
install it on. (And yes, you can install it for a single user without
admin privileges.)

Within my Dropbox folder, I just make a folder for my work and copy it
all onto there. (I use Toucan in Windows, rsync in Linux.) I also have
a few portable apps, including KeyNote and yWriter4, in my Dropbox
folder, which I can then use from any computer that has web access.

Actually... writing this has given me the idea to install PortableApps
(http://portableapps.com) in my Dropbox folder and see how it runs. I
may be able to drop the thumb drive altogether.

[Stephen Winters]

As an example of what is possible, Open Office has an extension that allows you to Export, Update and Import your documents to and from Google Docs, Zoho and WebDAV servers.       http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/ooo2gd  Whenever I’m finish writing in my ooWriter document, I just press the “File>Google Docs & Zoho>Export to Google Docs” menu. A login screen comes up (which I’ve chose to already have my login name and password in it) , press “OK” and the file is updated or uploaded to Google docs.

 

Stephen

 

From: ywr...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ywr...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian Payne
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 5:17 PM
To: ywr...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [yWriter] Re: yWriter and GoogleDocs

 

While this would be very nice, there are some things on Google's end that will likely prevent it from happening, and that's without even taking a wild guess at what Simon would say about having to re-write everything to support Google.

Off the top of my head, I'll point out that Google does not like and takes steps to prevent applications that log in automatically to your Google account.  Whether this is something that can be coded around or not is an open question (probably yes, but with difficulty and subject to breakage whenever Google feels like it), but it's certainly a hassle.

Also, it destroys one of yWriters biggest assets, in my opinion, which is that it can be run off-line.  (Yes, so can Google Docs... using their widget, and only their widget.)

Now, a utility to automatically sync your yWriter data up with Google Docs?  I'd be all over that.  But I don't think it should be part of yWriter, myself.

--sofaspud

------~--~---

[Adam]

I'm glad to see this is receiving some interest.

In response to Brian Payne: I'm afraid you have it all quite
backwards. Google actually provides an API for Docs, making it
extrordinarily *easy* to program around - Google most certainly is not
preventing people from interfacing with it. As Stephen Winters points
out, OpenOffice is a perfect example that this is possible.
Furthermore, such a feature wouldn't destroy offline editing in
yWriter - first, it would totally optional so if you wanted to be 100%
offline, that would be fine; second, I suggested a check-out
procedures allowing easy offline editing (with a small bit of prep)
when you knew you couldn't be online.

[Mange]

Relying on Google Docs as the sole place to save and make backup of
your work in progress is obviously not a good idea.
Possibly as an additional backup. But saving on Google and then open
the file on another computer without proper backup doesn't guarantee
the file from not being corrupt or in the case of a servercrash, being
there.
Also, considering some users questions about safety, putting your work
in progress on a site of Googles size, reputation and policy isn't
that asking for somebody to have a look at it? Although the file might
not be public, there's bound to be a large group of people that will
be able to access and read all these files.
I'm just asking ...

[Brian Payne]

Adam -- I've worked with the Google APIs.  I like Google.  But I'll point out that they have a history of preventing, without warning, people from logging into Gmail accounts via external apps (c.f. Gmail as file storage medium, for starters).  I see no reason why it would be different for Google Docs, should Google-the-company change their mind about how the API works.

(Also, the API doesn't solve the problem of needing to be online, unless you *also* install the offline widget, in which case... why are we doing this again? :)

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that we're discussing something that is of limited utility and completely dependent on the man what created yWriter in the first place -- so I'll let him make the call on whether it's a worthwhile idea.  I've already stated my opinion.

--sofaspud
--

[Denis Castellan]

I don't think it's a fair comparison.

Gmail has never been designed as a file storage system.
One shouldn't be surprised Google tried (and managed?) to prevent
Gmail from being hijacked by third party software.
All "gmail storage" software rely on a misuse of mail attachments to
store files.
They never provided an API to store files on Gmail.

Denis