yWriter beta incoming

[Simon Haynes]

I've been busy on other projects recently, but have now turned my attention to yWriter7.

I've been working on the custom Listview I designed, which is already in use in several parts of the yWriter7 Beta, and have now switched the main screen Chapter and Scene lists to it.

(One benefit is that my new listview can be fully themed, unlike the default Windows one, and it's also a lot faster.)  I do need to figure out accessibility and compatibility with screenreaders.

The other thing I've almost finished adding is 'export to Docx', which is very nearly there. It will work the same as export to RTF, except you choose the docx menu entry instead. Docx is an open format, well documented, and is supported by Microsoft Office as well as OpenOffice.

Adding the import from docx routines will take longer as docx files can contain all sorts of other stuff aside from text - images, tables, you name it - and of course yWriter doesn't have any use for those.

I'll release a new beta once the export is working, and then turn my attention to importing docx files as well.

Cheers

Simon

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[Peter T.]

The custom list view gives the program a nice new look. However, chapters that start a new section are no longer displayed in bold. Is this intended?

Cheers, 

Peter

[Simon Haynes]

Thanks, glad you like it.

Any changes from the original are just bugs. I'll make a note about the chapter colours.

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[Peter T.]

On Monday, June 5, 2023 at 8:10:14 AM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

Any changes from the original are just bugs. I'll make a note about the chapter colours.

That's fine.  I guess that hardly any user is aware of this feature. For me, it is useful to add a layer above the chapters, something like this:

[Simon Haynes]

Yep I don't think that was ever added to the program, it's undocumented.

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[Clifford Farris]

My current novel is coming along swimmingly in yWriter7. This author could not be happier as it is. Thank you, thank you, thank you. 

I will study the new features when they come out, but it  is a gem as it stands. 

Cliff at Desert Coyote Press

[Simon Haynes]

This is fixed in the new Beta.

I've also given the icons a refresh, but this is still work in progress.

On Mon, 5 Jun 2023 at 06:11, Peter T. <peter.pape...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Peter T.]

Very nice! 

However, the chapter and scene icons seem to have gone:

Version 7.1.3.5 on windows 10, .exe installer.

[Peter T.]

Just giving another feedback to 7.1.3.5:

• I can't move the columns; "Viewpoint" ist first and fixed on my PC (see screenshot in my previous posting)
• The docx export would have a decisive advantage over rtf if at least the headings were formatted with the appropriate styles. . 

[Simon Haynes]

Yep those are new. They're little sheets of paper instead of english language/letters (which make no sense when you consider the worldwide audience.)

I'm still working on them, I don't want anything obtrusive.

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[Peter T.]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 6:25:02 PM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

Yep those are new. They're little sheets of paper instead of english language/letters (which make no sense when you consider the worldwide audience.)

I'm still working on them, I don't want anything obtrusive.

Oh, if it isn't a bug, it's totally okay with me. 

Since .docx export is available now, you might want to integrate it with other features, like this: 

I think this only affects the UI text, doesn't it?

There is also the <RTF> tag specified (which didn't work the last time I tried to use it). Is this meant for DOCX as well?

[Simon Haynes]

The <RTF> tag won't work with DocX, as I'm building the docx file from my own markup, not RTF. I would have to create a new DocX tag and allow users to incorporate docx XML but that might be ... challenging. It's not a simple format, that's for sure.

(The exporter is still preliminary, I just want to be able to write the format. Will definitely do something about chapter headings soon.)

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[Peter T.]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 7:05:40 PM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

The <RTF> tag won't work with DocX, as I'm building the docx file from my own markup, not RTF.

I see. Some time ago I also did all this work.

I would have to create a new DocX tag and allow users to incorporate docx XML but that might be ... challenging.

So I would keep my hands off it.

 

It's not a simple format, that's for sure.

yep, it's horrible, really.

[Simon Haynes]

Yep, your work is always appreciated.

I've had DocX in mind for a very long time, but really it came about because of the recent issues with 'corrupted' RTF export to Word, which I can't explain. I don't know if word changed the format again (and after all, RTF is a Microsoft format) or if it's just a newer version of the format with undocumented features, or even a stricter application of the rules.

I knew exporting Docx would need importing as well, so those two were my first priority.

Eventually I'd like to add a bit more formatting to my Markup language - font face and size, for example.  If yWriter were for my own use only, I'd be adding this stuff in a flash, but of course I have to worry about backwards compatibility which always delays and stymies every change to an existing feature.

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[Peter T.]

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 8:20:59 PM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

I knew exporting Docx would need importing as well, so those two were my first priority.

Wouldn't it be easier to polish up the plain text export instead, for example with Markdown?

Compared to the previous RTF export, this would even have the advantage of structuring the novel with heading levels. The import is child's play, and with a tool like pandoc, all sorts of file formats could be generated, including docx.  

The disadvantage, however, is that the following would then not really come into question:

 

Eventually I'd like to add a bit more formatting to my Markup language - font face and size, for example.  If yWriter were for my own use only, I'd be adding this stuff in a flash, but of course I have to worry about backwards compatibility which always delays and stymies every change to an existing feature.

I have also dealt with this problem and found a satisfactory solution. In my case, it's markup of foreign language passages, as required by OpenOffice and Word for spell checking, but this would work for any other kind of markup as well. Ingeniously, yWriter already has everything you need onboard.

I have my converter create project variables with HTML code snippets behind them (just for yWriter compatibility). When converting from yWriter to ODT, I only need to evaluate these custom tags inside the square brackets. 

See the specifications, if you like.

[Peter T.]

P.S.  Personally, I have no interest in the yWriter markup being expanded. I only use some of the current formatting options myself, but I have added something of my own, like quoted text: 

https://peter88213.github.io/yw-cnv/help#about_formatting_text

I like to look into the discussion forums of other open source writing sotware from time to time, and I note that some text editors and document exporters are increasingly cluttered with wonky features due to the users' requests. 

In general, most of the users want their novel exported to an Office document, but instead of laying it out there with powerful and reusable stylesheets, they seem to prefer puzzling the layout together with esoteric export options.

Well, to each his own, as long as I can programme myself what I need. I am probably the only one in the world who has yw7 files with language markup. XD 

[Simon Haynes]

I have authors who export from yWriter to send to editors/agents/etc. One in particular was having trouble with RTF, and so I added DocX import and export.

I would really like to write my own epub exporter, and that's next on the cards.  I don't like using Calibre as the intermediate.

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[Simon Haynes]

Yep I'm not a fan of over-complicating anything. Over the years I've tried to simplify things, although in order to generate my ebooks and paperbacks the way I need them, yWriter's conditional include feature is essential.  Same with conditional variables depending on the export type and keywords saved in each.

Export to Ebook templates

Ebook export settings for the template above

Global Variables, this one only used if the export tag filters contain 'Kindle' (otherwise the variable is hidden)

In the scene editor, this scene will only export if the export template has the tag 'Kindle', otherwise it will be skipped

As for Inclueds, you can set up a folder to read them from:

And then include the same files into any project:

You can also include only content between tags inside an external document:

You can also include specific scenes by ID from other ywriter projects (handy if you want to end a book with the first chapter from the next book...)

What was that about overcomplicating things?

;-)

Cheers

Simon

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[Simon Haynes]

Thanks for that!   I posted on Twitter yesterday, saying it's about 21 years now since I released yWriter version 1.

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[Simon Haynes]

Doing styles now, and I've not implemented column reordering yet.

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[Morgan]

You're wonderful Simon. When I double clicked a scene, it didn't open automatically, I had to use the right click menu. 

[Simon Haynes]

I think there's still an issue where it doesn't think there's a particular scene or chapter selected, but double-clicking should work regardless. (It's not failed for me yet, but I suspect that's the cause.)

I'm using the beta for my own stuff, which is the best way I know to find and eliminate bugs.

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[Peter T.]

After deleting a project note in version 7.1.3.6 Beta, the note content is cleared, but the note remains in the list until a new note is created.

By the way:  Anybody care to share their experiences with project notes? In which case do you prefer them to "Notes" or "To do" scenes?

[Simon Haynes]

Re the former, that's fixed for the next beta

Re the latter, I never use them. I use scenes and mark them as 'notes'

On Thu, 22 Jun 2023 at 15:32, Peter T. <peter.pape...@gmail.com> wrote:

After deleting a project note in version 7.1.3.6 Beta, the note content is cleared, but the note remains in the list until a new note is created.

By the way:  Anybody care to share their experiences with project notes? In which case do you prefer them to "Notes" or "To do" scenes?

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[Peter T.]

I just noticed that yWriter 7.1.3.6 doesn't exclude comments when exporting to RTF. However, comments are excluded correctly when exporting to DOCX and HTML.  I can't tell whether this applies to versions prior to the latest Beta. 

Cheers, 

Peter

[Simon Haynes]

Looking at the code now, I don't think export to RTF ever removed the comments. (Nor does export to text)

Export to Ebook and LaTeX do as they're the ones intended directly for publication.

There's a switch in the exporter to choose whether to export comments or not - I'll make sure that applies to RTF and TEXT and that should fix it.

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[Peter T.]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 2:35:54 AM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

Looking at the code now, I don't think export to RTF ever removed the comments. (Nor does export to text)

Does this perhaps indicate that the comments are used extremely rarely, if at all? 

I find them useful, but only use my own ODT exporters for conversion, which turn them into native ODT comments. Like so many features of yWriter, this one is great for custom extensions. 

[Peter T.]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 10:43:34 AM UTC+2 Peter T. wrote:

Like so many features of yWriter, this one is great for custom extensions. 

Such as the footnote markup for which there was the inspiration in another thread the other day.  

The test of this feature accidentally brought me to the RTF issue.

[Simon Haynes]

I've uploaded a Beta now where the RTF and Text exports use the 'export comments' checkbox.

It's not that I don't use comments in my work - I use them a massive amount, all the time. It's just that I never export to html, rtf or text - only LaTex and Ebook, neither of which allow you to export comments at all.

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[Peter T.]

On Tuesday, June 27, 2023 at 11:09:36 AM UTC+2 Simon Haynes wrote:

only LaTex and Ebook, neither of which allow you to export comments at all.

I see. However, I'dlike to give you an idea of the potential of the comments when you turn them into footnotes: 

This is my custom markup for the yw-cnv or pywoo extension:

This is how it looks in OpenOffice:

And this is how it looks in the Calibre ebook reader after conversion using the writer2epub extension:

[Simon Haynes]

Looks very nice!

One day I'd like to have export to epub directly from yWriter, but it's low priority.

Why, you ask?  I use an older version of Calibre which exports to epub 2.0, whereas newer versions seem to enforce epub 3.  epubcheck fails on epub 3 from calibre, and so does (I think) Kobo, and when I last looked I couldn't find a working switch to keep Calibre exporting to version 2.

When 3rd party apps break my stuff, it's annoying, and so I tend to replace them when I can. (I don't mean your work, you're very active with your various routines and programs.)

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[Peter T.]

Thanks. Yes, I also think it's worth writing your own epub converter, shouldn't be witchcraft after all. I have also thought about it, but for now I am satisfied with the OpenOffice  extension . LibreOffice even has a built-in Epub export in its newer versions, though I like the result better with the extension. 

It is certainly not a mistake to become independent from Calibre. However, Calibre is indispensable for me because I use it to manage truly all text documents and PDFs (up to the manuals of the DVD recorder and the electric garage door drive). 

By the way, with Epub 3, my Tolino ebook reader keeps having problems. And with every software update, the tendency to crash increases.

[Simon Haynes]

I'm happy using Calibre separately as a library, I just don't like relying on it because it's not designed to be used with yWriter, it just happens to work.

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[Eduardo]

Hi Simon,

I am having the same issue as Morgan. Windows 10 here. Double-clicking doesn't open the scene. I also have to use the right click menu.

Thanks for your efforts.

[Eduardo]

Hi Simon,

I forgot to mention that when I click on a scene, it doesn't select it.

On Saturday, June 10, 2023 at 6:27:26 PM UTC-7 Morgan wrote:

[Simon Haynes]

Is that Beta 7.1.3.8?

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[Simon Haynes]

I've started work on export to Epub, but it's definitely witchcraft.  It's like they threw all the ideas in a hat and instead of picking one they implemented a bit from each.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 at 18:28, Peter T. <peter.pape...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Trevor Prinn]

Years ago I wrote a C# library to get info out of epubs. Don't know if that's any use to you.

https://github.com/trevorprinn/EbookThing/blob/master/EbookObjects/Epub.cs

It's slightly tied in with a MySql database, but not very much. The idea was to write a web site which would download the entire gutenberg catalogue and load it into a database every night, and you could use it to browse and read, as well as use the dll to open books in calibre etc. It can also get extra info from google books. It's pretty much there but the bit I got stuck on was writing something to read the books - you essentially need to write a whole browser to do that cleanly (I looked in Calibre, that seems to be what it does).

Sometime I mean to go back and just do the catalogue part to use as a single search engine for all the various Gutenberg catalogues, but I haven't got around to it yet.

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[Simon Haynes]

You might like to look at my yBook2 software. It has an integrated Gutenberg catalogue retriever, and it reformats their fixed-76-char-per line and reflows it properly

I think I added the gutenberg stuff around 2004?

http://www.spacejock.com/yBook2.html

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[Trevor Prinn]

I hadn't realised that. I'll have a look.

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[Eduardo]

Hi, Simon,

Yes. I updated it yesterday to the latest beta.

[Simon Haynes]

Export to Epub is 95% done, just sorting out the cover page + image.

Then I need to create a new export to epub form with checkboxes, alongside the existing Calibre one. (I'll keep the Calibre exporter as an option as it's the only way to get Mobi files, and also I don't like forcing people to change how they do things.)

On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 at 18:28, Peter T. <peter.pape...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Simon Haynes]

Okay, if you can email me the log file (offlist) that would help, just in case it's specific to your PC.

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[Eduardo]

Hi Simon,

I just sent the log file to your e-mail.

[Kurt Hohmann]

Hi Simon,

I'm seeing a bug in the current beta version that I haven't encountered before - I suspect it's possibly tied to the work you're doing on integrating with Google Docs.

If I copy a string of text onto the clipboard from anywhere (another scene, open document on desktop, etc) and then paste it into a scene I'm editing in yWriter, that works fine if I use the menu, i.e. edit scene, select Edit --> Paste. If I use the standard Windows shortcut of Ctrl-v instead of the menu item, I get two copies of the same string pasted into the scene.

The other Ctrl- shortcuts for select all, cut, and copy all seem to be working fine.

Kurt

[Simon Haynes]

Pretty sure I've fixed this, but I'm holding off uploading the latest beta until I'm happy with the export to epub function.

(yWriter now supports export to epub natively, but I'm tidying up a few things to make sure it uses the variables from the export-to-epub tab on the ebook exporter form.)

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