Rumors

[Tim Marinov]

I've heard that ICE and Naid are going to Maya..This rumor is coming  from one of the latest events .I am not going to specify, all I can say is from reliable source. I hope is not true for the ICE but I can't keep rely only on hopes.

No more Autodesk for us that for sure ......We (my company) recently started to realize that our industry is just fine without Autodesk and every day work is much more fun and productive.Houdini,Modo,Cinema4D,Nuke are some of the tools that are much better from what autodesk has to offer(buying and adding plugins,almost none development, introducing more and more bugs with each version, innovation and development are not their driving force but only moneymaking ).
Let's guys support this companies that care and love what they do as a product, this companies that are growing not only of making money but also of making innovations . We have to stop to be controlled from evil corporations and don't forget that we little people can make the difference and stay against the money sucking monsters.We are not zombies.....This is the only  way to see progress.......

[Mário Domingos]

Like!

Mário Domingos | 3D Artist/Generalist | www.mariodomingos.com
T: +351 91 646 80 16 | Carnaxide - Portugal

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Can you elaborate this? I’m afraid that it might make unnecessary panic. When do you think this move is going to happen? How reliable your source is in that question? (I mean he must be very close to Autodesk)

 

I personally trust in the developers (not in Autodesk), but if that is true…

[Tim Marinov]

This is rumor and I don't know if it's true.This is something that I've heard recently and really touch my emotions......

[Graham Bell]

Would you care to elaborate, when you say this is coming from the latest events? Because to the best of my knowledge we haven't announced anything publicly and this isn't something that we would really mention at an event.

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tim Marinov
Sent: 19 December 2012 14:30
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

This is rumor and I don't know if it's true.This is something that I've heard recently and really touch my emotions......

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Szabolcs Matefy <szab...@crytek.com<mailto:szab...@crytek.com>> wrote:
Can you elaborate this? I'm afraid that it might make unnecessary panic. When do you think this move is going to happen? How reliable your source is in that question? (I mean he must be very close to Autodesk)

I personally trust in the developers (not in Autodesk), but if that is true...

[Eugen Sares]

If you are so happy with your other software, why even bother coming here?
You like Softimage, don't you. Here we all do, for a reason, and will
continue so until the end - which always comes (yet not in 2 days).
The developers are doing a good job, even with their limited resources,
and they are the guys that make the real difference.
I don't care for Autodesk and their bloated apparatus, but I do care for
that fine piece of software that happens to be under their label at the
time being.

"ICE is going to Maya"... even if so, that does not mean it will be
ripped from Sofimage. If SI ever goes down, it will do so with ICE. For
now, it is still being developed.
"Naiad is going to Maya"... even if so, that does not mean it will never
appear in Softimage.

Relax and enjoy your new workflow.

[Martin Contel]

It's hard to be a Softimage user these days... :(

--

Martin Contel

http://seminoize.com

[Nic Groot Bluemink]

--

Technical Pretty Picture Making Person

Kettle

[Jonnyquest]

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 9:46 PM, Martin Contel <marti...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's hard to be a Softimage user these days... :(

Tim Marinov,

at least you mentioned the event..

[Tim Marinov]

If it was publicly it won't be rumor and everyone will know.As I said this is something I 've heard recently and I really hope isn't true.I like Softimage XSI and what is happening with it lately, and these rumors really hurts long XSI users.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Graham Bell <Graha...@autodesk.com> wrote:

publicly

[Rob Wuijster]

LOL!!!!

Rob Wuijster
E ro...@casema.nl

\/-------------\/----------------\/

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.2805 / Virus Database: 2637/5969 - Release Date: 12/18/12

[Sebastien Sterling]

I always thought the reason ice works so well was its in-depth integration, surely if they want to achieve such results in maya they will have to dissect it to its core, maybe this would be a good opportunity to address many legacy issues within maya, and might make it a lot more bearable to work with...

[Ciaran Moloney]

Haven't we been hearing this for like 4 years? If it happens it happens.

[Cristobal Infante]

The world will end in a couple of days, so who cares...

[Francois Lord]

Are you surprised to hear that the best tool in Softimage is being
ported to Maya?
Really?

Luc-Eric said publicly that they were working on something for Maya. But
it wasn't ICE. It was different and it addressed different needs. But we
all now it will be some kind of procedural operator building thingy.

I personnaly don't care. As long as they don't remove ICE in Softimage.

--
Francois

[Tim Marinov]

If this really happens they are not going to remove the ICE from Softimage but Softimage will fade out slowly from Autodesk.ICE is the only reason Softimage is still around.

[Francois Lord]

If you think Softimage will die when Maya gets an equivalent to ICE, you
should have begun switching to another software some time ago.
It was inevitable.

[Tim Marinov]

And if Maya gets something like ICE no point for autodesk to keep SI if doesn't make enough money from it.
But who cares as someone said the world will end in a couple of days :)

[Martin Contel]

It would be a shame if Softimage disappears. It's not just ICE what makes XSI an amazing product, but its whole workflow.

[Andi Farhall]

my tuppence worth….

 

I don't think maya will ever get ice as we, softimage users, know it. They'll get some nasty half arsed cludge that lacks the simplicity of softimage that will make using it a pain rather than the pleasure we enjoy.

 

There will always be a tool for people like us and if autodesk stop making it, someone else might step into the picture. who knows. we could all be doing something else for a living in a few years….

 

A>

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Tim Marinov
Sent: 19 December 2012 17:03
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

 

And if Maya gets something like ICE no point for autodesk to keep SI if doesn't make enough money from it.

[Mathieu Leclaire]

I'm sorry... but how exactly does it hurt the user? If what you are hearing happens to be true... doesn't that just mean good news for Maya? I don't see any bad news for Softimage here. Softimage ain't loosing anything. It's Maya whose gaining.

Even if Softimage ends up loosing some user base because they are moving to Maya or something else and Softimage stops evolving due to lack of users... Well, that's the cycle of life. In the end, ain't that the beauty of our industry? Things are evolving rapidly. There are always new softwares, new technologies to learn and adopt. Old non evolving technologies slowly die to make way to new better technologies. I love Softimage like all of you and I would be sad if it stopped evolving. But I'm a big boy. I'll adopt a new one if it helps our work get better. Sure, there would be an adaptation period if that happens, but in the end, softwares are just tools. Our jobs aren't in jeopardy. Only your comfort zone is. And that is only true IF your wort case scenario actually happens (i.e. new ICE like interface in Maya forces Softimage users to switch software and in doing so kills Softimage's future).

I think this process is completely natural and healthy. If Softimage is to die, it's not going to happen in the blink of an eye. It's going to be a slow natural transition towards that state. I hope not. I too hope it will keep evolving and keep it's place in the industry... but if it doesn't, then I'll be happy to face a new challenge and learn a new software.

-Mathieu

[David Gallagher]

Good thoughts. The irritating thing to me is that the Maya/Max world doesn't understand the workflow strengths of Softimage. If those tools elsewhere turn out to be better, that's great. But lately it just feels like momentum is the driving force, not quality of software.

Dave G

[Adam Sale]

and if Maya does adopt ICE, well, then we users who are familiar with ICE stand to gain, as it would make learning maya a little less painful. 

[Alok Gandhi]

Plus the ICE TDs will become more hireable . . . :)

Sent from my iPhone

[Daniel H]

Softimage is better than its ever been and yet every year we still have to go through the death rumors... tradition I guess. Ultimately the software is owned by AD and they have the option to nurture it or destroy it as they please. If AD robs the best bits and innovation from Softimage, then I'm perfectly fine with it. Like others are saying, it would make a switch that much easier.

Daniel

VFXM

[Doeke Wartena]

"Well, that's the cycle of life. In the end, ain't that the beauty of our industry? Things are evolving rapidly. There are always new softwares, new technologies to learn and adopt. Old non evolving technologies slowly die to make way to new better technologies."

There are schools that teach maya/3dmax because it's common use. There are companies that don't use softimage because they work with other companies as well and therefor it isn't always easy to use a different product.
Maya is a horrible markt leader and it's hard to beat the king.

Maybe it's the cycle of life, a lot beatifull creatures die on this world because of the humans, let's just hope softimage survives.

2012/12/19 Adam Sale <adam...@gmail.com>

[Sebastien Sterling]

Its like an oil company suppressing the pursuit of alternative fuels, by artificially balancing out any innovation AD has succeeded in keeping the industry stagnant for the past decade

[Rob Chapman]

uh oh we go again!

On 19 December 2012 17:16, Andi Farhall

<andi.f...@primefocusworld.com> wrote:
> I don't think maya will ever get ice as we, softimage users, know it.
> They'll get some nasty half arsed cludge that lacks the simplicity of
> softimage that will make using it a pain rather than the pleasure we enjoy.

Your argument is flawed, as in hindsight, and from what I can gather
from various other discussions we have had over the years on this
subject, it seemed the first thing AD did was move the majority of
original Softimage devs (that did not leave) onto this new Maya FX &
Project Skyline and hired folk in from Singapore to replace the lost
Softimage devs. These are the devs that helped define the pain /
pleasure ratio you speak of.

but then they tell us about it years later whilst shuffling and
shedding even more staff.. Autodesk management is not a charity,
they are doing what they do for profits, clear and simple. The suites
were introduced for profit only. as it was pretty much guaranteed that
at least 25% of the userbase will uptake to the higher priced tier. I
believe management want that to be 70% - see below, instant profit as
another copy of software does not cost anything much to them. If our
application of choice suffers because its user base is in the minority
then so be it.

same as now I see they are starting to see rumours and talks of trying
to leverage some exisiting Autocad products & services into M&E and
the cloud. this is not for our benefits, its purely to maximise as
much profit, be that short or long term, as possible out of its
existing assets it can sell to the userbase. Capitalism 101.

In my humble non economics clued opinion, satisfying shareholders at
a fixed percentage per year is the problem with Autodesk and slow
moving 'oil tanker' businesses like these as it is quite plainly been
eating into the resources (potential development & innovation) that
belonged to its paying customers, at least, so it seems that way to me
coming from a lowly classified Softimage customer.

some enlightening background info from a purely economical perspective
http://seekingalpha.com/article/940461-autodesk-a-case-study-on-business-reorganization

best regards

Rob

[Steven Caron]

exactly, why are you surprised?

they hired the talent (whats left of it that is!) that made ICE and the talent that made Naiad. if that wasn't good enough indication about what was going to happen then i dont know what is!

[César Sáez]

Please, leave Softimage's future to someone who can actually do something about it, we don't have the proper context to know what is happening and what is coming.

We've been through this, not again!

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau]

Wish The Foundry had bought Softimage…

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of César Sáez
Sent: 19 décembre 2012 14:56
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

 

Please, leave Softimage's future to someone who can actually do something about it, we don't have the proper context to know what is happening and what is coming.

[Steven Caron]

lets not go there... autodesk isn't the only company raising prices and gobbling up tech/talent/software.

[Steffen Dünner]

Hehehe, I hope The Foundry buys SideFX and gives us Modini! ;)

I'd contact the Solid Angle guys and beg them to write MOtoA!

Cheers

Steffen

2012/12/19 Marc-Andre Carbonneau <marc-andre...@ubisoft.com>

[Alan Fregtman]

But the apocalypse isn't until Friday! :p

Negativity never helped anyone. Let's go easy on the rumours.

Merry Christmas, softies and devs!

[Javier Vega]

Well... what happened here today?. Lot of panic!. I love Softimage and i dont think that will dissapear soon. But if they discontinue Softimage, well... is not a drama. I love Softimage, but I love more CGI. I will adapt to other softwares or I will continue with the last Softimage version. I think that in that point Softimage is a great application.

Best wishes for all Softimage Users!

Javier Vega

www.zao3d.com

Visita mi blog: http://blog.zao3d.com

móvil: 616 64 73 57
08922-Santa Coloma de Gramenet
(Barcelona)

2012/12/19 Alan Fregtman <alan.f...@gmail.com>

[Eric Thivierge]

Can we boot people from the list for starting or spreading rumors? Please? Especially with no solid backup of what they are saying.

[Graham Bell]

I agree.

'Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.'

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Eric Thivierge
Sent: 19 December 2012 20:44
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

Can we boot people from the list for starting or spreading rumors? Please? Especially with no solid backup of what they are saying.

On Dec 20, 2012 7:27 AM, "Javier Vega" <javier...@gmail.com<mailto:javier...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Well... what happened here today?. Lot of panic!. I love Softimage and i dont think that will dissapear soon. But if they discontinue Softimage, well... is not a drama. I love Softimage, but I love more CGI. I will adapt to other softwares or I will continue with the last Softimage version. I think that in that point Softimage is a great application.

Best wishes for all Softimage Users!

Javier Vega

www.zao3d.com<http://www.zao3d.com>

Visita mi blog: http://blog.zao3d.com

móvil: 616 64 73 57
08922-Santa Coloma de Gramenet
(Barcelona)

2012/12/19 Alan Fregtman <alan.f...@gmail.com<mailto:alan.f...@gmail.com>>

But the apocalypse isn't until Friday! :p


Negativity never helped anyone. Let's go easy on the rumours.

Merry Christmas, softies and devs!

[Andreas Bystrom]

that would be a good idea yes

--
Andreas Byström
Weta Digital

[Williams, Wayne]

+1

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andreas Bystrom
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 3:58 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

 

that would be a good idea yes

[Steffen Dünner]

I'd boot all people mentioning the two "M"-products from Ad on this list! ;)

2012/12/19 Andreas Bystrom <andreas...@gmail.com>

[Eric Thivierge]

What bothers me is that this list is becoming less and less of a professional environment and just a place to start stirring up fear and tossing around speculation and rumors. I usually leave that for the folks in the forums usually.

Also to add, Tim Marinov, like others have said, you've already switched to those other apps. It seems like you're just coming back to stir things up and hope others follow you into the path you've taken. Not sure if it's because you're lonely over there or what but if you don't use Softimage any longer why even come to post on this list?

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Cristobal Infante]

"Can we boot people"

I think you are taking this way to seriously, who would make that decision anyway.. you?

[Gene Crucean]

Slow down everyone.

Tim has worked for me before and he's a solid Soft dude. Nothing but respect for him. I know he loves Soft just as much as we all do and honestly... his post was probably posted purely out of his frustration of how AD is handling Soft. I say... cut the dude some slack and understand that he's probably just bummed.

--
Gene Crucean - Emmy winning - Oscar nominated VFX Supervisor / iOS-OSX Developer / Filmmaker / Photographer

** Freelance for hire **
www.genecrucean.com

~~ Please use my website's contact form on www.genecrucean.com for any personal emails. Thanks. I may not get them at this address. ~~

[Raffaele Fragapane]

A Rumor will have been around the whole world before the Truth has its shoes on.

If only the Truth stopped being such a precious F'in princess and started running barefoot...

ICE was evolutionary, fresh, new, well thought, much needed, and an inspiration to many when it came out. It is, however, not revolutionary, unique, and one of its core implementation choices is widely available.

It is not only natural, but sensible, that other softwares over time will get or converge towards something similar.

The struggle to unify things and the abuse of VOPs over all other OPs in Houdini, propietary systems from here to Dreamworks going through half the other 500+ vfx/animation companies, new products... it all points towards what makes ICE what is is becoming the new golden standard. Hats off to Soft's old team for seeing that and making it happen... What, 5 or 6 years ago?
Do learn to deal with the fact that it WILL be available in other softwares though, and it won't be strictly ICE (which AFAIK has already been deemed unportable if tried as a transplant), it's just the equivalent of what ICE did so well, so early.

[Steven Caron]

ya, lets not overreact...

in this case it isn't a rumor, we know autodesk bought both softimage and naiad... we know they re-tasked our developers... we know maya fears the houdini fx dominance... so of course they are going to make new fx tools in maya. and besides, node graphs and multi-threading aren't unique to ICE and they have been around for quite some time, so lets let this thing go.

s

[Paul Doyle]

+1

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

Tim and others should feel free to post here, and as one of the admin
of this list I will make sure he continues to have the rights to, as
per Autodesk social media policy, and plain common sense. I fought
for this mailing list to stay up; it exists for users to talk to each
other.

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Am I the only one on this list that ever risked a ban by you back then? ;)

But yeah, I can't say I liked the post much, or found it particularly useful, but it's hardly inflamatory and doesn't feel malicious. I'll take the occasional post like that over the police state feeling of an overly moderated list. Historically it's taken care of itself more than well enough.

[olivier jeannel]

Come on, it's almost fun in the end :)
And, in 40 years when THEY will stop Softimage, people will say :
"- Ah, I told you so !"

[Eric Thivierge]

Maybe banning was a poor choice there.

It just feels like Fox News style propagation of false or misleading information.

--------------------------------------------

Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

PS - I heard from a reliable source that they are taking all of the modeling tools out of Softimage in 2013 so you'll have to buy Maya or Max to model then.

[Chris Chia]

Hi Tim,
ICE will not move to Maya but Maya may integrate a system similar to ICE. This move should actually benefit all Softimage users... Think about it, wouldn't all Softimage ICE users benefit this new system first with our prior knowledge of ICE compared to the newbies...

As for whether Softimage will be removed from Autodesk, I think you shouldn't worry too much... Because the first person to fear should be me ;) but I am still in the team...

I think as long as there is a strong user base in SI, Softimage will continue to be there... So regarding the rumour, don't fall into it... Because if everyone believes in it and starts moving to other DCC, then Softimage may then be in serious trouble...


Chris

On 20 Dec, 2012, at 1:03 AM, "Tim Marinov" <tim.m...@gmail.com<mailto:tim.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:

And if Maya gets something like ICE no point for autodesk to keep SI if doesn't make enough money from it.
But who cares as someone said the world will end in a couple of days :)



On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Tim Marinov <tim.m...@gmail.com<mailto:tim.m...@gmail.com>> wrote:
If this really happens they are not going to remove the ICE from Softimage but Softimage will fade out slowly from Autodesk.ICE is the only reason Softimage is still around.

On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Francois Lord <flord...@gmail.com<mailto:flord...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Are you surprised to hear that the best tool in Softimage is being ported to Maya?
Really?

Luc-Eric said publicly that they were working on something for Maya. But it wasn't ICE. It was different and it addressed different needs. But we all now it will be some kind of procedural operator building thingy.

I personnaly don't care. As long as they don't remove ICE in Softimage.

--
Francois

[Matt Lind]

The value is understanding how things work under the hood so you know how to construct the graphs efficiently to accomplish goals.  Having a graph interface is just that, an interface.  In that regard, ICE knowledge will probably be not very useful as Softimage’s internal guts are very different from Maya’s.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Chia
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 4:10 PM
To: <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Rumors

 

Hi Tim,

ICE will not move to Maya but Maya may integrate a system similar to ICE. This move should actually benefit all Softimage users... Think about it, wouldn't all Softimage ICE users benefit this new system first with our prior knowledge of ICE compared to the newbies...

 

As for whether Softimage will be removed from Autodesk, I think you shouldn't worry too much... Because the first person to fear should be me ;) but I am still in the team... 

 

I think as long as there is a strong user base in SI, Softimage will continue to be there... So regarding the rumour, don't fall into it... Because if everyone believes in it and starts moving to other DCC, then Softimage may then be in serious trouble...

 

 

Chris

On 20 Dec, 2012, at 1:03 AM, "Tim Marinov" <tim.m...@gmail.com> wrote:

And if Maya gets something like ICE no point for autodesk to keep SI if doesn't make enough money from it.
But who cares as someone said the world will end in a couple of days :)

[Matt Lind]

I should add – the fear is once the Maya equivalent of ICE goes live, many current Maya users now using ICE will likely revert back to Maya’s built in system because it’s a lot more convenient than shipping stuff back n’ forth between Maya and Softimage and learning two different softwares.   This will cause the Softimage user base headcount to drop a bit.  Whether the drop is critical mass or not remains to be determined.  If it is, then people do have a legitimate worry of Softimage eventually disappearing sooner than desired.

 

A few years off either way, but a legitimate concern for some.

[Ciaran Moloney]

I'd guess 90% of ICE users don't know what goes on under the hood. They do OK.

[Matt Lind]

The point isn’t whether people would be functional, it’s about whether the knowledge is portable.  To be portable requires some degree of semblance.  A ui alone won’t do that.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ciaran Moloney
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 5:02 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

 

I'd guess 90% of ICE users don't know what goes on under the hood. They do OK.

[Rob Chapman]

pretty much depends on if there is to be a Softimage keyboard layout
and ICE terminology toggle in Maya FX :)

oh and hide all garish 80's style icons would be great to!

best

Rob

[Gene Crucean]

Think about it, wouldn't all Softimage ICE users benefit this new system first with our prior knowledge of ICE compared to the newbies...

... until all Soft users are "successfully" now using Maya.

[Andy Moorer]

There's always been rumor and silliness on this list. Personally I like hearing the rumors - if its traveling around word-of-mouth I'd just as soon hear it here too, where it can be refuted (or not.) Sure some people get worked up (me? Never!) and bandwidth is used, but the more free-flowing this board is, the better. Tech help is useful, but humans are silly creatures and the humanity of this list is one of the reasons it's such a valuable resource.

If we all stop posting for fear of being chastised or being wrong (me? never!) we'll have lost the freewheeling chaotic energy which makes the Internet so useful. Bring on the rumors. Me, I heard sideFX and the foundry are going to make a crossover product called Modini... ;)

[Chris Chia]

Modini… LOL

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Moorer
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 10:14 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Cc: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Rumors

There's always been rumor and silliness on this list. Personally I like hearing the rumors - if its traveling around word-of-mouth I'd just as soon hear it here too, where it can be refuted (or not.) Sure some people get worked up (me? Never!) and bandwidth is used, but the more free-flowing this board is, the better. Tech help is useful, but humans are silly creatures and the humanity of this list is one of the reasons it's such a valuable resource.

If we all stop posting for fear of being chastised or being wrong (me? never!) we'll have lost the freewheeling chaotic energy which makes the Internet so useful. Bring on the rumors. Me, I heard sideFX and the foundry are going to make a crossover product called Modini... ;)