Softimage - not going away...

[Jean-Louis]

Hi list,

Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem: http://www.digitalgolem.com/portfolio/range-rover-fireflies/

Cheers,

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

[Ivan Vasiljevic]

Great work! So smooth!

Cheers.

Ivan

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Ivan Vasiljevic
-

Lighting TD

Founder, Digital Asset Tailors
-
web:    http://digitalassettailors.com/

email:  iv...@digitalassettailors.com

[Artur W]

Beautiful. Keep it strong. 

If you were to change please go Houdini not Maya.

Artur

[Jean-Louis]

To be honest we have Houdini and Maya as well, but our core pipeline, and pretty much everything we do, is still either 100% Softimage or at least goes through it before rendering.

Considering it hasn’t moved on for 6 or 7 years, and yet still seems to be more efficient and productive than anything else out there, I do my head in every day thinking about where Softimage would be today if development had been kept up…

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

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[Ognjen Vukovic]

Nice one.

The close up shot is a killer.

Regards,

Ogi.

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[Morten Bartholdy]

Lucky you. I am stuck in the madness they call Maya.

Nice work there - I like the details and the slowmo :)


Morten

> Den 24. oktober 2017 klokken 15:16 skrev Jean-Louis <jean-...@photon3.com>:
>
>
> Hi list,
>

> Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwIFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=WurWJJ6SCwAekkwmyOjODKH5Zz2HhLUn46A5Cd-uYjs&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwIFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=WurWJJ6SCwAekkwmyOjODKH5Zz2HhLUn46A5Cd-uYjs&e=>

>
> Cheers,
> JL
>
>
> Jean-Louis Billard
> -----------------------------------------
> Digital Golem
> BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563
> jean-...@digitalgolem.com

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwIFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=Gq9YaxWiO1d-lilhxIivNgjNRmHGBXG5pCHGZKI47qE&e=

> 53 Rue Gustave Huberti
> 1030 Brussels
> -----------------------------------------
>

[John Clausing]

"Madness they call maya"?.....you're being a tad generous..
Just had to upgrade so my scene would work again lol

Sent from my iPhone

[Morten Bartholdy]

I just wish more studios had the good sense to stick with Softimage for at least some more years to come. Maya is unbearably beyond stupid.

The number of workarounds and silly methodology employed is driving me insane.


Morten

[Jean-Louis]

Thanks, it’s all Redshift. We’re using Arnold less and less these days.

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

On 24 Oct 2017, at 17:05, toonafish <ron...@toonafish.nl> wrote:

Great stuff ! The firefly close ups are brilliant. Rendered in Arnold or Redshift ?

Cheers

 
-Ronald 

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[Morten Bartholdy]

Redshift and Softimage is a powerful combination :) Lovely and easy to use.

Morten

> Den 24. oktober 2017 klokken 17:11 skrev Jean-Louis <jean-...@photon3.com>:
>
>
> Thanks, it’s all Redshift. We’re using Arnold less and less these days.
>
> JL
>
>
> Jean-Louis Billard
> -----------------------------------------
> Digital Golem
> BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563
> jean-...@digitalgolem.com

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=Zt519aDzbjQOUzNJt7KJTdB-iALx_xDoxGQ-ExR7PZo&s=qmT7DrVGEH6EcqIbrmFcxtvDBa1ynbCWf1ufX_Hr2LA&e=

> 53 Rue Gustave Huberti
> 1030 Brussels
> -----------------------------------------
>
> > On 24 Oct 2017, at 17:05, toonafish <ron...@toonafish.nl> wrote:
> >
> > Great stuff ! The firefly close ups are brilliant. Rendered in Arnold or Redshift ?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > -Ronald
> >
> >
> >> On 24 Oct 2017, at 15:16, Jean-Louis <jean-...@photon3.com <mailto:jean-...@photon3.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi list,
> >>

> >> Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=Zt519aDzbjQOUzNJt7KJTdB-iALx_xDoxGQ-ExR7PZo&s=BQ6NlBf5Thj73Fh5q2rI4ANSe1z591_FYtebDqRJuK4&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=WurWJJ6SCwAekkwmyOjODKH5Zz2HhLUn46A5Cd-uYjs&e=>

> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> JL
> >>
> >>
> >> Jean-Louis Billard
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >> Digital Golem
> >> BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

> >> jean-...@digitalgolem.com <mailto:jean-...@digitalgolem.com>
> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=Zt519aDzbjQOUzNJt7KJTdB-iALx_xDoxGQ-ExR7PZo&s=qmT7DrVGEH6EcqIbrmFcxtvDBa1ynbCWf1ufX_Hr2LA&e= <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=Gq9YaxWiO1d-lilhxIivNgjNRmHGBXG5pCHGZKI47qE&e=>

> >> 53 Rue Gustave Huberti
> >> 1030 Brussels
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >>
> >> ------
> >> Softimage Mailing List.

> >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com <mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.

[Gregor Punchatz]

Beautiful work! 

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[Tim Crowson]

Really nice work, there!

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:56 AM Gregor Punchatz <punc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Beautiful work! 

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:16 AM, Jean-Louis <jean-...@photon3.com> wrote:

Hi list,

Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem: http://www.digitalgolem.com/portfolio/range-rover-fireflies/

Cheers,

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

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[David Gallagher Softimage]

Great work!

Big high-five for using Softimage still. I do too!
Curious though, how do you handle new employees? Do you only bring in people who know Softimage already? I'm just imagining a new employee learning your pipeline with EOL software and how they handle that.

[Mirko Jankovic]

I do believe that there is still ton of Softimage people that are pushed into hell of maya that would give a leg to have a chance to work again in Softimage so..  :)

ᐧ

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Mirko Jankovic

http://www.cgfolio.com/mirko-jankovic

Need to find freelancers fast?

www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

http://www.gpuoven.com/

[Michael Amasio]

Using Softimage today at Double Negative Vancouver!  woot for legacy licenses!

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

I do believe that there is still ton of Softimage people that are pushed into hell of maya that would give a leg to have a chance to work again in Softimage so..  :)

ᐧ

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:47 PM, David Gallagher Softimage <davegsoft...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great work!

Big high-five for using Softimage still. I do too!
Curious though, how do you handle new employees? Do you only bring in people who know Softimage already? I'm just imagining a new employee learning your pipeline with EOL software and how they handle that.

On 10/24/2017 7:16 AM, Jean-Louis wrote:

Hi list,

Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem: http://www.digitalgolem.com/portfolio/range-rover-fireflies/

Cheers,

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

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Mirko Jankovic

http://www.cgfolio.com/mirko-jankovic

Need to find freelancers fast?

www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

http://www.gpuoven.com/

[Morten Bartholdy]

Amen to that!!

If I knew the people who decided to EOL Soft I would make sure they had flat tires for a year.
If I knew those who designed Maya I would strongly suggest they admit themselves to a mental facility.
Oh, and the ones who decided to EOL Softimage I would also flog with wet newspapers for a year.

I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.

Morten

> Den 24. oktober 2017 klokken 21:59 skrev Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com>:
>
>
> I do believe that there is still ton of Softimage people that are pushed
> into hell of maya that would give a leg to have a chance to work again in
> Softimage so.. :)

> ᐧ
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:47 PM, David Gallagher Softimage <
> davegsoft...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Great work!
> >
> > Big high-five for using Softimage still. I do too!
> > Curious though, how do you handle new employees? Do you only bring in
> > people who know Softimage already? I'm just imagining a new employee
> > learning your pipeline with EOL software and how they handle that.
> >
> >
> > On 10/24/2017 7:16 AM, Jean-Louis wrote:
> >
> > Hi list,
> >
> > Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem:

> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=xNkb2ahCYupFGKwPqnIZyYQ8bR_QW7V_uRaMaaQW44k&e=
> > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=WurWJJ6SCwAekkwmyOjODKH5Zz2HhLUn46A5Cd-uYjs&e=>

> >
> > Cheers,
> > JL
> >
> >
> > Jean-Louis Billard
> > -----------------------------------------

> > *Digital Golem*

> > BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563
> > jean-...@digitalgolem.com

> > https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=0_YH6IZI7Lxy5elO-n3Ncs30aXU03EcGQdV8Tua6pek&e=
> > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=Gq9YaxWiO1d-lilhxIivNgjNRmHGBXG5pCHGZKI47qE&e=>

> > 53 Rue Gustave Huberti
> > 1030 Brussels
> > -----------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > ------
> > Softimage Mailing List.

> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------
> > Softimage Mailing List.
> > To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com

> > with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Mirko Jankovic

> *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=0piQpz03ScpiX79OmxIHjrJ70J7s7ykNjCF2qnro2oE&e=
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=0piQpz03ScpiX79OmxIHjrJ70J7s7ykNjCF2qnro2oE&e=>*

>
> Need to find freelancers fast?
> www.cgfolio.com
>
> Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=Pu-kgIKkMf1fEShFwepMhvIT78h3NW0NXO5gJpnPdmE&e=
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[Morten Bartholdy]

Love to hear it.

Morten

> Den 24. oktober 2017 klokken 22:03 skrev Michael Amasio <michael...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> Using Softimage today at Double Negative Vancouver! woot for legacy
> licenses!
>
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I do believe that there is still ton of Softimage people that are pushed
> > into hell of maya that would give a leg to have a chance to work again in
> > Softimage so.. :)

> > ᐧ
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:47 PM, David Gallagher Softimage <
> > davegsoft...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Great work!
> >>
> >> Big high-five for using Softimage still. I do too!
> >> Curious though, how do you handle new employees? Do you only bring in
> >> people who know Softimage already? I'm just imagining a new employee
> >> learning your pipeline with EOL software and how they handle that.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 10/24/2017 7:16 AM, Jean-Louis wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi list,
> >>
> >> Softimage still alive and well over here at Digital Golem:

> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=nvhkiwsxNeii2AvEsfJWaL_Cf6R6JwfXfWG9juuFHXw&s=Z9g61j_97Gi0iFgg2dhFMvS9-y5WN5oDxAZ0ObMx7iQ&e=
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_portfolio_range-2Drover-2Dfireflies_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=WurWJJ6SCwAekkwmyOjODKH5Zz2HhLUn46A5Cd-uYjs&e=>

> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> JL
> >>
> >>
> >> Jean-Louis Billard
> >> -----------------------------------------

> >> *Digital Golem*

> >> BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563
> >> jean-...@digitalgolem.com

> >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=nvhkiwsxNeii2AvEsfJWaL_Cf6R6JwfXfWG9juuFHXw&s=OYo5UJ5IpAkx6q-9Fe1kNuXNp1hT3zWMPxDll3lbu5A&e=
> >> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.digitalgolem.com_&d=DwMFAg&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zX2AFFJUH4U7HfKwQjxPRdohiYSqEOMJ8eEO-lBeIyA&s=Gq9YaxWiO1d-lilhxIivNgjNRmHGBXG5pCHGZKI47qE&e=>

> >> 53 Rue Gustave Huberti
> >> 1030 Brussels
> >> -----------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------
> >> Softimage Mailing List.
> >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------
> >> Softimage Mailing List.
> >> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com
> >> with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mirko Jankovic

> > *https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cgfolio.com_mirko-2Djankovic&d=DwIFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=nvhkiwsxNeii2AvEsfJWaL_Cf6R6JwfXfWG9juuFHXw&s=WeaqvS1DVijZ6M_OZP1VdS-Ax2DyDfFRJG-Puv4qlFA&e=
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> >
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> > www.cgfolio.com

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> >
> > Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

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> > <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.gpuoven.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=zxoKUURPDY_p7pajTkkFnh2ByLCrbBLVKAszjFx6zOA&s=Pu-kgIKkMf1fEShFwepMhvIT78h3NW0NXO5gJpnPdmE&e=>

[Mirko Jankovic]

"And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different."

Well this is actually big part of why maya even exists. 

Huge marketing, tons of free education licences and get foot into every school, get poor ppl why they are young and have no idea on how things could be but just teach them your corrupt way. 

After that you have a sheep that have no idea that there is even a grass over the fence...

ᐧ

[Jean-Louis]

It’s getting tough finding people, but there’s still a few around.

What’s trickier is getting licenses! In fact, if anyone has Softimage licenses they don’t need anymore let us know, we’d be interested in buying them.

Thanks,

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

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-----------------------------------------

[Mirko Jankovic]

http://www.cgfolio.com

Just filter out softimage as software and there is a bit of softimage people around :)

This started as kinda list of softimage people on trello but then expanded as simple and fast filter to try and find people when needed for specific tasks without going through whole ad posting and reply waiting process. 

hope it helps. 

ᐧ

[Jean-Louis]

Excellent - thanks!

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

Digital Golem

BE: +32 (0) 484 263 563

jean-...@digitalgolem.com

http://www.digitalgolem.com/

53 Rue Gustave Huberti

1030 Brussels

-----------------------------------------

[skuby]

Someone over at AD with some common sense should bring it back.  If they did a cooperate Kickstarter to gauge interest and guarantee paid support before committing to anything -the investors/executives would be stunned at the financial response.  Japan and Vancouver markets alone would be enough to justify a comeback even if they purposely over-priced the software.   Someone should go lobby the top execs about it.

Excellent - thanks!

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[Gerbrand Nel]

> I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
>
>
> Morten

If you read on, the story splits.
Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
G

[Michael Amasio]

Something that I find funny and then immediately sad is, if I have a dream about winning the lottery or suddenly acquiring a billiion dollars, the first thing I fantasize about doing isn't boarding a yacht full of beautiful women, buying a mansion, or even helping my aging mother...  

...It's buying soft from AD, making it open source and paying a quality support and development team.

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[Mirko Jankovic]

well software is actual people behind it.. and SI team is destroyed, split apart and scatter around.... so... even if by some chance they would sell it.. but lets get real... it still could't get back on track where it was so.. yea AD did too good job at killing it..

ᐧ

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[adrian wyer]

Looking good Jean-Louis!!

 

i still use Soft every day... "....from my cold dead hands" etc etc

 

a

 

Adrian Wyer
Fluid Pictures
4th Floor
4 Bath Place
Rivington Street
London
EC2A 3DR 
++44(0) 207 684 5575 

adria...@fluid-pictures.com

www.fluid-pictures.com

 

Fluid Pictures Limited is registered in England and Wales.
Company number:5657815
VAT number: 872 6893 71

---

[Stefan Kubicek]

There are only two kinds of CG artist in the world: Those who use
Softimage, and those who never tried.

S

-----Original Message-----
From: Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk>
Reply-to: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.

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<soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List.
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.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 09:20:56 +0200 (CEST)

Amen to that!!

If I knew the people who decided to EOL Soft I would make sure they had
flat tires for a year.
If I knew those who designed Maya I would strongly suggest they admit
themselves to a mental facility.
Oh, and the ones who decided to EOL Softimage I would also flog with
wet newspapers for a year.

I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn
Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then
some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like
some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the
viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are
blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if
things had been different.

Morten

> Den 24. oktober 2017 klokken 21:59 skrev Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj.anima
> t...@gmail.com>:

[skuby]

I have modeling down pretty well in Blender now.  It's superior to even Softimage (and that's no joke) but it takes the requisite growing pains to get that far along.

I'm thinking my favorite way forward is Blender for Modeling.  Houdini for semi-auto UV creation, Rigging, Exporting (and possibly animation) and some 3rd party renderer or game engine for final output.  And (for the time being) ZBrush or Mudbox for sculpting/painting maybe with Substance Painter.  All the while taking time out to automate as many repetitious things as possible using Houdini.

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[Jean-Louis]

Hehehe - I can’t imagine you without it!

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

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[Mathieu Leclaire]

Hi guys,

I don't want to crash your rant here and hope you guys don't take
offense to what I have to say. I'm sure you heard this a million times
by now, but if you would allow me to share my perspective:

I highly recommend you guys move on and learn the other softwares. This
industry and it's technology is changing so fast. Sure Softimage now
still feels like the best option, but soon Softimage won't be able to
handle all the new file formats, new geometry features, latest renderers
will stop being supported, new hardware and operating systems won't
support it, etc. It will eventually become impossible to keep up with
current production needs using that software. If you guys don't evolve,
you will become dinosaurs and you'll have a long way to catch up before
you'll be able to get work again. We work in an industry that heavily
relies on new technologies so we have to evolve with it or you end up on
the outside looking in.

I understand your frustration. I do. I have gone through it all myself.
But after going through a hard learning curve to become as comfortable
with Houdini as I was with Softimage (and I'm still learning), I now
love Houdini probably more then I ever loved Softimage.

Trust me, it took me a long time to let it go. We still use Softimage a
lot here at Hybride, but we are slowly migrating out of it. We have to
with all the new requirements in our pipeline with other vendors. Now I
get pissed off when colleagues decide to use Softimage instead of doing
it directly in Houdini or in Maya. Like yourself, they are frustrated,
there's a lot of pressure to deliver in short timelines and so they
prefer not to get out of their comfort zone. But it already comes with a
price to pay. For example, we had a scene that took an hour to load in
Softimage where it loaded in a few seconds in Houdini. That means that
this artist takes about twice the time allocated per shot because he's
too hard headed to switch software. Trust me that supervision is putting
a lot of pressure on that guy to learn Houdini so they don't have to
overcharge for his shots anymore.

This is just the beginning. It'll get worst and worst in the next few
years and eventually, you'll become like the guy who still types on an
old typewriter instead of using a computer. I know that switching feels
like taking a few steps backwards, but at least you'll be able to
eventually move forward where you are standing still in Softimage. I
hated having to go through all this, but eventually Houdini open my eyes
to a world of new possibilities that never would have been available in
Softimage and I couldn't be happier that I finally made that move. Don't
make the mistake of being too comfortable in your ways of working. It'll
become obsolete sooner then you think. There's a ton of new toys out
there waiting to be discovered. Your ex broke up with you. Accept it and
move on. Sure, you'll date a few girls that will underwhelm you at
first, but you just might find one that will blow your mind and change
your life for the better, but you have to take that leap first and give
it a fair chance.

That's my rant/recommendation. Now it's on you to decide how you want to
manage your career.

-Mathieu

[phil harbath]

Do you do character animation in Houdini, I am hesitant to change to
another program if I can't get
near the character animation workflow as Softimage, just wondering I don't
know much about Houdini's
strengths in that department other than it is behind and a work in progress,
maybe they are fine with that not being
their niche. Of all the nightmares I hear about about working in Maya I am
not crazy about spending a ton of time (and money)
changing to Maya for character animation to have it worse.

thanks

[Ognjen Vukovic]

Mathieu Leclaire +1 Its time to move on.

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[Jean-Louis]

I wholeheartedly agree, Mathieu, which is why, as I mentioned, we also use Houdini and (alas) Maya here. Heck we even have a 3DSMax seat for the odd freelancer that chooses to use it..! We have to have a whole bunch of tools anyway (ZBrush, Modo, etc.) because any post-production environment needs the flexibility to use the best tool for the job. We’re even exploring Blender.

And yet for now our primary pipeline remains Softimage because we simply are so bloody efficient with it (despite it being undeveloped for the past 6 years) and we have so much accumulated knowledge and tools that are linked to it.

Our plan is to gradually lay out a parallel Houdini workflow, and as we get more comfortable and productive, we will eventually migrate over to it.

JL

Jean-Louis Billard

-----------------------------------------

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-----------------------------------------

[Olivier Jeannel]

Go Houdini !
16.5 anounced btw https://vimeo.com/239828144

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[Mirko Jankovic]

It is clear to all that sometimes SI will fade away.. simple as that.. Houdini progress is helping that ;) But at the moment lack of all rounded program like that kinda still keeps a lot of people hanging on to SI for daily work especially small team or solo freelancers. 

Just recently I had a forum chat about Houdini character animation and in a nut shell.. getting good Houdini riggers is nearly impossible mission to start with. They all comment how powerful and all it is but still... simply lacks talent out there, and if you need to get someone to work on the project tomorrow.. hard time. 

So thinking on switching what part of workflow to switch first from SI to Houdini.

Modeling.. they are getting there but still SI is a bit more intuitive especialy taking into account years of being used to it.

Rigging already discussed, character animation I guess with nice rigs doable but still.. SI...

Rendering.. well passes and partition system in SI.. I mean common SideFX just copy that!!! :)

And finaly lack of time for learning.. I started learning Houdini for 6 times now.. always get interrupted with work and then after days or weeks.. all over again.

Also that steep learning curve.. honestly from Maya to Softimage transition was in a week from no use to fully using in projects. Houdini... ugh

But that said.. after H16 and now looking sneak peak H16.5, feeling like unpacking new hardware again and at least have some enthusiasm to get into it. Starting maya each time to do anything feels soo painfull :X

ᐧ

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[Mathieu Leclaire]

Currently we do our rigging and animation in Maya.

I'm in no way an expert on rigging and animation, so I can only share
feedback that I've heard from our experts.

From what I see, Houdini have some very interesting rigging tools. It's
the animation tools that are a bit primitive. You can do pretty much
what you want, it's just not as sexy and user friendly as the other
softwares.

SideFX told us they have plans to improve these tools. I'm not sure when
that will happen, but everything SideFX do seems to turn to gold so
It'll probably be amazing once they get to it... I'm just not sure of
their timeline.

We try and do as much as we can in Maya for now, but we can also import
the animation back into Houdini to do muscle simulations, cloth and hair
sims when necessary... or use Houdini Engine in Maya. We haven't needed
to go there yet, so these are all options that are up in the air for us
right now.

All I can say is that our Animation/Rigging departments where the first
department to transition into Maya before we even looked at Houdini and
they seem happy with it. When we suggested that they look at Houdini for
Animation/Rigging, there was a lot of resistance since they just made
the move over to Maya and they weren't very excited at the prospect of
learning yet another software, so we never pushed it.

Houdini is very flexible to customize to your need. You can make it do
anything, but you need technical people to help make these tools more
user friendly. If you are more artistic then technical and just want to
animate, then Maya is probably a better choice for the moment. I don't
know if there are other software worth looking into at this moment
though!? Motion builder and crowd tools like Goalem are good at mixing
existing clips together, but they aren't animation tools.

Animation feels like an area where it seem ready for a big technological
evolution. How long will people edit keys on curves? Feels as primitive
as modeling was before ZBrush and Mudbox where invented. I see there's a
lot of research done with machine learning and deep neural networks... I
have a feeling big breakthroughs are on the verge of revolutionizing the
way we animate our characters. But until then, I would say Maya is your
safest bet for now.

[Mathieu Leclaire]

Well, there you go... You can see that in Houdini 16.5 (https://vimeo.com/239828144) they've already pushed a few new animation features. I'm sure more will follow in version 17. As I said, they are working on improving their animation tools. It might take a few more version to get something worth switching over for, but you can see there's an effort put into that area.

[Jonathan Moore]

There are still things in Softimage that you can't get anywhere else. ICE particles in combination with Eric Mootz's wondrous plugin suite offers greater creative possibilities than anything else on the market today and has multi-threaded performance to match Houdini's (the possibilities are there in Houdini but only with a lot of bespoke tool building). X-Particles in C4D is getting there but it still has a long way to go. Don't get me started on Maya & Max's naive particle capabilities.

I love Houdini and over time I see that as the permanent XSI replacement, but to be clear, it's not just character animators that are clinging on to XSI; I know a good few motion design folk that won't leave XSI behind just yet either.

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[Mathieu Leclaire]

Is it still easier to find Softimage riggers then Houdini riggers? That will change sooner then later.

We switched our entire rendering pipeline to Houdini. Houdini has all the tools we need and more. We can do the equivalent of passes and partitions but they use terms like takes, bundles, ROPs, etc. It's just a little different, but it comes down to pretty much the same thing, but more powerful and more flexible. Our lighters have had a very smooth transition to Houdini. They just needed a couple hours of formation to make them understand the new terminology and workflow. They are pretty much all up & running.

-Mathieu

[Sven Constable]

Two or three years back I considered another software as a replacement for XSI. You can do that and be on the safe side, because everyone else will use something else than Softimage. If you have to rely on a career as an employed artist you should do it instantly. Don't waste time. No one can compete in a jobmarket with outdated tools. If you are independent, it's an entirely different story.

You can work with XSI now, be productive and went further for many years to come. The success to use XSI in the future for us ppl will depend strongly how we will able to manage our pipeline. Can you fix problems with licensing or OS related things without TDs and IT? If you're non-tech, can you fix problems without help from developers? I can handle that and I chose to stick with XSI.
I think the difficult part of using it is not to work with something rare or exotic like Softimage is nowadays. It's still superior to Maya and 3dsmax, so there is no problem in my daily work. But you will need to keep it working together: applications, OS, hardware, network, licensing. Those problems will perhaps become harder to solve.

Sven

[Jordi Bares]

I will suggest, like it has been mentioned, that you take a hard cold look at what it is at stake… your family? Your company?

Make sure you don’t get run over by the competition..

And good luck
jb

[Cristobal Infante]

A bit OT but is anyone giving akeytsu a go? I played with it yesterday, and feels simple and fast!!

[Andres Stephens]

Though a good analogy... a tool is very different than a relationship with a person…

There still are very efficient people building houses out of hammers and nails. There still are capable artists using paint and brushes. It’s a tool. Whatever gets the job done. And yes, eventually it will be hard comparing a hammer with a nail gun – but for the sake of the art and whatever you do, even art can be made with the defunct Microsoft Paint. Whatever floats your boat. When it comes to productions, whatever gets the job done in time too is valid as anything else superior or not.

Even if it’s about relationships with a software… I think polyamory still is the name of the game. A harmonious relationship of many. Sculpting in one, rendering in another, animation in another, even cross pollination with fabric engine, proceduralism (which isn’t always great for hard hand artistry sometimes) in Houdini, or even in Blender with some node base workflows, realtime rendering in Unreal, and.. even with that, things fading away, has OBJ died yet after all these years? I don’t think SI and the 3D workflow will fade so quickly as much as the hammer and nail hasn’t become obsolete today…

I would, for the hell of it, still make a webseries in trueSpace for it’s unique relaxing workflow and still funcioning software, 9 years later, 32bit, still has a Yafaray and Vray integration to a degree, with a directX9 viewport, updated FBX exporter, and a wysiwyg viewport that handles more polygons than Blender at the moment. It’s old, retro, but maybe the near future that will be a thing – as much as 8bit games are a thing, like hand brew coffee, microbrewery beer and vinly DJ’s.

Whatever gets the job done, whatever floats your boat. No need to be in an industry standard to survive.

And.. it is relaxing working in something that isn’t always evolving and developing (and having to learn over and over again as things revamp, modifies and improves) to be free to  focus on the art and story… Just a thought.

-Draise

[Mathieu Leclaire]

I hear you, but how will you compete for a job when everyone else is using nail guns and you are only using a hammer? If all these new kids can do the job 100x faster then you can, why would they hire you instead? I'm not saying you can't do a good job with a hammer, but it'll take more time so you'll need to charge more money to compensate. You better make sure you're freaking amazing with that hammer if you want them to come back to you.

[Tekano Bob]

Interesting points Andres,  wonder if Vitaly Bulgarov plans on sticking with Xsi, it looked like he used it on ghost in the Shell, so it is still a valid design tool choice on contempory film productions in the right hands. I've tried to maintain a philosophy to use the best tools for the task and until something better (or faster) came along , Xsi was the tool most often reached. Lately Houdini has been the go to tool for more complex technical tasks but Xsi still for rapid prototype modelling, it's muscle memory Still 😀

[Sven Constable]

The thing is, you don't have to be freaking amazing to be competitive with XSI. In fact you can easily compete, taking a break and playing banjo while doing the work. Maybe not in vfx but with usual 3d.

[Eugene Flormata]

I played with the akeytsu demo a bit, but I didn't see it any differently than the existing animation paradigm, it's just a different interface, looks like they've made some updates, so I'll take another look at it


i think the most radical ways to look at future animation are
mosketch (which I think lacks the detailed control at the moment, and can get slow at times, but it's in beta)

Raf Anzovin's ephemeral rigging process, which makes some really hand-drawn looking animations (https://vimeo.com/238453633), it's a very keyframe based animation process
he even posts some of the tech behind it on his website https://www.justtodosomethingbad.com/

i think these mixed with some of Richard lico's process on baked animation is a nice steps forward in a new animation paradigm

[Jonathan Moore]

I was told by the Animal Logic boys that they only made the move over to Maya from XSI on the latest Lego show, but even then XSI had to be retained for a number of shots.

I can't see the harm in using XSI for specific reasons (as long as chief amongst those reasons isn't nostalgia).

There seems to be a consensus in this thread (and the multitude of others like it) ref growing your knowledge with regards to alternative options. That's the main thing that's important. When we're in our late teens/early twenties, the best quality we have is open mindedness. Keep that middle aged 'been there, seen it, done it' attitude at bay and there's plenty of ways of transitioning on with grace. ;)

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[Jordi Bares]

Following the game of analogies and with the only intention of stating that a tool is not just a tool once and for all, you would expect to use the same tools to carve a soft marble from a hard one, let alone granite or hard wood. Sometimes you will use a Chisel, a Cape Chisel, a Ripper, Wedges and Shims…

In our world it is clear certain tools “drive” you in certain directions (Maya is very good and driving you to the cliff though) while others “drive” you to technical elements at first may seem silly (Houdini is particularly good at that sometimes) but overall both are evolving. Softimage, unfortunately is dead although I understand the cozy feeling is great, the reality is that the world out there is not cozy at all, and sooner than you think your neighbour will be able to do things you simply can’t do at all (in fact this is already true in terms of scalability for example)

But you are right, if you prefer to use it and it does the job, go for it, surely you know the various aspects but please don’t forget these emails were only with the intention of helping a community like this one with so many great people that have helped me so much, I would like to help everyone to just move on and accept the realities of modern CGI are very very different from the ones we all experienced 3 years ago, let alone 6. 

hugs

jb

[Mathieu Leclaire]

For now, sure. ...and that's my point. Now Softimage is still competitive for most scenarios, but all the others are evolving while Softimage is locked in time.

You can probably stay competitive with it for a few more years, but the day will come where the number of scenarios this is true will drastically shrink. Clients will start asking for you to handle scenes with millions of objects that weight billions of polygons... or maybe it won't even be polygons anymore. There will be this new geometry format that everyone has switched over because you can do amazingly complex things with it, but Softimage won't be able to manage that. Imagine Softimage can only do nurbs while all other softwares have adopted polygons. Who knows what new technology is around the corner, but you'll never have access to it. How long would you think you can stay competitive working with outdated technology?

Then you will have to turn down that contract, and then more contracts and eventually you'll barely have any more contracts. Then you'll have to learn a new tool and you'll have years of new technologies to familiarize yourself with. The learning curve will be incredibly more steep and you might need to go back to school to learn all that stuff you should have learned years ago.

All I am saying is to look farther then the next couple gigs and prepare yourself for the future. Now I don't care if you want to stick with Softimage as long as you can. That's your choice. Sooner or later, reality will catch up to you. You won't be able to compete with everyone else. You'll have no choice but to learn these new tools to become competitive again and you will simply have that much more work to do to get back up to speed on the new tools currently available. You can wait until your back is against the wall or you can prepare yourself by slowly learning new tools and staying up to date with what's available.

[Mathieu Leclaire]

Well said. I see this too often. People become expert at working a certain way so when you propose a new better way of doing things, they resist it because that means they are not an expert anymore. Those people slowly get obsolete and then have a hard time getting back in the game. Technology is fast evolving and it's a challenge to stay up to date, but you have to if you want to shine in this business. It comes with the territory. Accept that you'll always have to learn new tools and new techniques. If you can't accept that, then you are in the wrong business.

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[Andres Stephens]

Yeah.. you’d need to be pretty skilled with whatever tool you have to do the art and make business. As in everywhere... anywhere. And it is a rule of the digital art game, always improve your skills, don’t stop. No?   

Concerning being hired with old software, if you have a great style, a good productive workflow and a great showcase – anything that looks different goes a long way, like the Lego movies or Samuri Jack.

If the nailgun was better than the hammer as if it were always the better choice, hand drawn 2D films and cartoons would be certainly left in the past, but they are not. People still hand-draw and do stopmotion, and those productions have similar turnover schedules as 3D and digital cutout productions. It just aesthetically works on it’s own merit... it’s not the tool itself, but the skill (and story) put into it... Indeed time is a big factor to being hired, getting work, etc, it may also be a competing edge, and always, quality = time (divided by talent count multiplying cost), and good stories and good art take time, regardless of the tool, quality will always take time, either to learn, to study and master the tool, or to put in enough hours to do a good job, with or without the good or bad tools.

And if you have less time use burned to churn out trillions of polygons that morph into each other, where else should the extra time be put into? I agree... that it should always be invested in time for mastering your skills for the stories and art communicated with the work from where you’re at and where you want to be in style. Though this should also remain true as software agnostic.

I do use Si for some short deadlines, but I like learning Unreal Engine, starting to use it in production, through rendering in realtime and all that it offers, learning Bforartists, a nicer easier version of Blender, most of my work, including in studio and independent is in Blender, and mainly I put my earnings in equipment instead of new software to hire more creative artistic seats with opensource and free and fast developing software... 
 

[Mirko Jankovic]

"when you propose a new better way of doing things,"

Well this is kinda the point. So far no one proposed better way of doing thing,, but more other way around :)

Agree 100% with all time goes transition stuff. But same as you can;t ignore gigs in the future you also can't ignore work that you have to complete and compete right now. 

Can you compete properly if instead of you doing like 90% of the work alone, suddenly you have to hire 4-5 more guys for tasks to help you out and even stuf you are still doing takes 4-5 times longer? :)

So yes... winter IS coming, but SI still shines among others. Somehow if it was crap it would be easy to move on. I wish that others offers much better way and great tools. 

But at the moment that is really not the case. 

You can praise maya for character animation but there are really only two reasons to do that.. there is nothing else beside SI out here for that part and 2nd if you are in bigger studio and some other poor guy is handling rigging and all the crap maya goes with it and yo just get nicely sorted out controls to move around. 

And that is just a part. So again yes things are moving and one day it will be must to move on, but at the moment... parallel development, actually finishing jobs fast with SI and plugging in your second.. and 3rd and 4th choice as you need more tools to replace single SI...  and then keep transitioning. Slower, but honestly much more manageable then just cut and move and find yourself lagging behind everyone else on the playing field and spending more time plugging out your hair with maya crash fest and illogicality, or Houdini's missing of riggers that you need for current project. 

But yes it is much easier to transition if you are part of bigger environment, you can focus on one specific part of process, model, rig, animate.. etc and live a bit easier in your small bubble. 

But try at once to expand to scover all areas as generalist in program taht is 20 years old frankenstain of misc additions and workflows and logic.. you are dead in the water.

Honestly, Maya constrain system... WTF!!! need to fiddle with extra and extra extra nulls and crap to make simple pickup throw pickup hand over animation of the prop.... constrain object then later key it and constrain is fucked.. I mean wtf.. learn from softimage at least!

ᐧ

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[Morten Bartholdy]

:_D


> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 16:29 skrev Michael Amasio <michael...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> Something that I find funny and then immediately sad is, if I have a dream
> about winning the lottery or suddenly acquiring a billiion dollars, the
> first thing I fantasize about doing isn't boarding a yacht full of
> beautiful women, buying a mansion, or even helping my aging mother...
>
> ...It's buying soft from AD, making it open source and paying a quality
> support and development team.

>
> On Oct 25, 2017 5:53 AM, "Gerbrand Nel" <nag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > > I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn
> > Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some.
> > After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some
> > modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the
> > rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to
> > how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
> > >
> > >
> > > Morten
> >

> > If you read on, the story splits.
> > Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
> > Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
> > Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
> > Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
> > Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
> > G
> >
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[Morten Bartholdy]

I very much agree with the sentiment that we need to move on for various good reasons. The problem is there still are no really good alternatives to XSI available.

Houdini certainly looks like it will inherit the world at some point, if they manage to get character work down, make the UI even more accessible, and a few other things perhaps. 16.5 looks incredible, but it is still prohibitive to start to learn for non technical artists.

Maya is a horrible mess - I fail to understand how anyone could ever consider it twice for serious production. It must be down to number of legacy installations and the size of the userbase, edu situation and availability of artists, because if I were to advise someone setting up shop now I would strongly advise against it, for reasons most people here probably agree with, one of them being it is from Autodesk. This is not (just) a serious dislike of them. I consider them to be a very unstable software vendor.

I don't see anyone mentioning Cinema 4D here - any thoughts? Is it not really there for character work or pipeline work, or what is it? I have read many good things about it, also from XSI people who have transitioned. Powerful, rocksolid, easier to use than XSI in some aspects, and a UI that actually makes sense. And - it is not Autodesk.

I do like learning new stuff, but hate it when it is worse than what I come from, and Maya is driving me insane very fast.

Best
Morten

> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 23:34 skrev Jonathan Moore <jonatha...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> I was told by the Animal Logic boys that they only made the move over to
> Maya from XSI on the latest Lego show, but even then XSI had to be retained
> for a number of shots.
>
> I can't see the harm in using XSI for specific reasons (as long as chief
> amongst those reasons isn't nostalgia).
>
> There seems to be a consensus in this thread (and the multitude of others
> like it) ref growing your knowledge with regards to alternative options.
> That's the main thing that's important. When we're in our late teens/early
> twenties, the best quality we have is open mindedness. Keep that middle
> aged 'been there, seen it, done it' attitude at bay and there's plenty of
> ways of transitioning on with grace. ;)
>
> On 25 October 2017 at 22:20, Sven Constable <sixsi...@imagefront.de>
> wrote:
>
> > The thing is, you don't have to be freaking amazing to be competitive with
> > XSI. In fact you can easily compete, taking a break and playing banjo while
> > doing the work. Maybe not in vfx but with usual 3d.
> >
> >
> >

> > *From:* softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimage-bounces@
> > listproc.autodesk.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathieu Leclaire
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:02 PM
> >
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> > *Subject:* Re: Softimage - not going away...

> > *From: *Mathieu Leclaire <mlec...@hybride.com>
> > *Sent: *Wednesday, October 25, 2017 11:43
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[Morten Bartholdy]

Houdini is still to technical to even start using. Blender I have actually looked at and it doesn't look half as bad as Maya, but it also very much depends on where you are working or aspire to work.

Maya is a ticket to work in most places these days I guess, but it is also certain to drive you mad, and hate going to work everyday.

Honestly I would love to work with Houdini, and might even sit down and try and learn it some day, but it is still damn hard to start using, so downtime is considerable.

MB

> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 14:53 skrev Gerbrand Nel <nag...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> > I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
> >
> >
> > Morten
>

> If you read on, the story splits.
> Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
> Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
> Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
> Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
> Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
> G
>

[Enter Reality]

For technical reasons I had to switch to Maya, but I'm still pretty bad with modeling ( tools looks like a plugin on top of a plugin on top of another plugin ), and for animation I switched to Motion Builders, since all the characters I'm working on are humans with a pretty standard rig ( except for the facial rig, which is done by Morph targets ).

I still rely on XSI for modeling and fast prototyping in general, but due to the projects I'm working on I basically switched to Unreal Engine 4 for animation and simulations, also having custom version of the engine combined with the nVidia technology ( VXGI and Flex above all ), so I've transfered the little ICE knowledge I had by using the Blueprint system in UE4, and oh my, I'm creating some neat stuff there using a very intuitive workflow.

UE4 won't replace XSI or any kind of modeling DCC any time soon, but the XSI+UE4 combination allows me to use Maya as little as possible, because I'm sick of all the crashes ( both on standard and Lite version ) and overall workflow.

2017-10-26 17:07 GMT+02:00 Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk>:

Houdini is still to technical to even start using. Blender I have actually looked at and it doesn't look half as bad as Maya, but it also very much depends on where you are working or aspire to work.

Maya is a ticket to work in most places these days I guess, but it is also certain to drive you mad, and hate going to work everyday.

Honestly I would love to work with Houdini, and might even sit down and try and learn it some day, but it is still damn hard to start using, so downtime is considerable.

MB

> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 14:53 skrev Gerbrand Nel <nag...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> > I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
> >
> >
> > Morten
>
> If you read on, the story splits.
> Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
> Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
> Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
> Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
> Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
> G
>
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[Mathieu Leclaire]

Houdini is not that hard to use... What's difficult is learning their
nomenclature. They use very different terminology from other 3D
softwares and that makes it hard to find the tools you are looking for.
Once you learned what all these new terms are, it becomes so easy to
work with.

It's a little different the way it all works, but it makes it so
powerful once you wrap your head around it. But I understand how an
artist who just want to pick up the software and start working without
thinking too much can be intimidated by Houdini. It's very confusing at
first. It is an investment to learn it, but one that pays off immensely
afterwards. But it's OK if you don't want to go down that road too.
Houdini is not for everyone. If it was, we would have deployed it in
every department, but we haven't done that. A lot of tools are much more
user friendly. It's up to you to decide if you prefer ease of use with
clear limitations or learn something a little more complex but that has
immense power and flexibility.

[Jordi Bares]

The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start.

True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those come easy if you really go for it.

:)

jb

[Jonathan Moore]

The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start.
True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those come easy if you really go for it.

I say this as a Houdini fan. Houdini is only an easy transition for technical artists. I support teams of artists from fine art backgrounds as well as technical artists and those with a fine art background even found ICE a challenge. For larger teams made up of both TD's and artists this isn't a major issue, but the fact that so much of Houdini is Wrangle-centric these days causes problems for those with a purely art school background who don't know their way around a scripting language, never mind a C-like programming language.

I think it's untrue to say 'Houdini is not hard anymore', but more true to say that Houdini is easier to transition to from another DCC (for those with a technical aptitude). You won't get far in Houdini if you can't at the very least think programmatically, and that still goes for those that stick to VOP's rather than Wrangles.

One can argue that 3d is an inherently technical art, but there are plenty of professionals working in media & entertainment based studio businesses that get by just fine without any aptitude for scripting & programming. Unfortunately, I don't think it's untrue to state that it's difficult to get past the basics in Houdini without a technical aptitude.

On 26 October 2017 at 17:01, Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start.

True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those come easy if you really go for it.

:)

jb

> On 26 Oct 2017, at 16:07, Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk> wrote:
>
> Houdini is still to technical to even start using. Blender I have actually looked at and it doesn't look half as bad as Maya, but it also very much depends on where you are working or aspire to work.
>
> Maya is a ticket to work in most places these days I guess, but it is also certain to drive you mad, and hate going to work everyday.
>
> Honestly I would love to work with Houdini, and might even sit down and try and learn it some day, but it is still damn hard to start using, so downtime is considerable.
>
> MB
>
>
>
>> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 14:53 skrev Gerbrand Nel <nag...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
>>>
>>>
>>> Morten
>>
>> If you read on, the story splits.
>> Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
>> Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
>> Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
>> Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
>> Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
>> G
>>
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[Jordi Bares]

Could you give me an example of various stages of a production where you need those skills? I can only see a few places where you do and others that you might if you want to do complex stuff (like modern abstract motion graphics for example)

Let’s also remember, only recently we have Wrangle nodes and although they are awesome, you didn’t even have them a few years back yet you were able to do anything (slower of course) in other manners. A good example is the new Point Wrangle versus the old Point SOP.

I still think for Previz, Modelling, Animation (not technical FX animation), Layout, Shading, Texturing, Lighting and Rendering you need Zero skills.

But may be I am missing something.

jb

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[Jonathan Moore]

Jordi, I'm only recounting the feedback I get from the artists I support. Some of these artists find nodal approaches per se as being technical.

You, I and most on this list know this not to be the case, but we have to be considerate that not all artists are wired the same as us.

>> To unsubscribe, send a mail to softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com with "unsubscribe" in the subject, and reply to confirm.
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[kenny wood]

Only problem I have with Houdini is the slow viewport subdivision display ...otherwise I would use it for modelling aswell 

[skuby]

Different software for different tasks and just pick the best Software available at the time, total compartmentalization.

example ( / slashes = "or" )

Modeling (Softimage/Blender +Marvelous Deisgner) Sculpting (Mudbox/ZBrush/Blender) Retopo (ZBrush/Houdini) UV's (semi-automated via Houdini) Painting (Mudbox/Substance) Rigging+Animation (Houdini/Akeytsu) everything else i.e. Shading/Lighting/Hair/Dynamics/etc. (Houdini/Unreal Engine 4 + Add-ons)

There will never be a replacement for Softimage and what it meant to us.  The above example is at least a high quality replacement for modern times, fully powerful and optimized for each individual task and you can always swap out a part or add in an extra piece.

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:01 PM, Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

The only way to learn a language well is to fully immerse into it, same thing here… Houdini is not hard any more, UX and specially a more viewport centric approach makes it very easy to start.

True there is some vocabulary and weird things in a few areas but those come easy if you really go for it.

:)

jb

> On 26 Oct 2017, at 16:07, Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk> wrote:
>
> Houdini is still to technical to even start using. Blender I have actually looked at and it doesn't look half as bad as Maya, but it also very much depends on where you are working or aspire to work.
>
> Maya is a ticket to work in most places these days I guess, but it is also certain to drive you mad, and hate going to work everyday.
>
> Honestly I would love to work with Houdini, and might even sit down and try and learn it some day, but it is still damn hard to start using, so downtime is considerable.
>
> MB
>
>
>
>> Den 25. oktober 2017 klokken 14:53 skrev Gerbrand Nel <nag...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I read the stories by people who had the bad fortune to have to learn Maya earlier and I have to say everything they wrote is true and then some. After 3 months+ of everyday Maya punishment I actually only like some modeling tools and being able to see layered textures in the viewport - the rest is a horrible mess. And our Maya artists are blissfully oblivious to how much easier their lives could have been if things had been different.
>>>
>>>
>>> Morten
>>
>> If you read on, the story splits.
>> Kinda like a "choose your own adventure"
>> Some people choose Maya, and THEY DIE!!!!
>> Others choose NOT-Maya and live.
>> Honestly I would rather use bryce and poser.
>> Why not Houdini or Blender, Morten?
>> G
>>
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[Jordi Bares]

Indeed you are right, I probably have a skewed vision due to the fact that everyone is now exposed to Nuke (and here XSI) which have node based approaches but may be outside is not so obvious.

I hope you have fun though.  ;-)

jb

[Jonathan Moore]

I wasn't intending to pick holes Jordi, so apologies if it came over that way. But yes, be it nodal shading, nodal compositing or full featured end to end procedural modeling and animation; nodes scare the bejesus out of a many artists. Personally, I find nodes a more visually descriptive view of things but have come to realise there are many that don't share my view.  :)

[Jordi Bares]

No worries Jonathan..

It is nevertheless interesting that non-technical artists like those coming from C4D and AfterEffects are jumping on Houdini and some really are doing amazing work the like we haven’t seen so may be it will be an evolution in the sense that understanding the processes may be fundamental for the type of work they intend to do.

Anyway… good luck though

hugs

jb

[Jonathan Moore]

Those coming from the likes C4D and After Effects doing wonderful stuff in Houdini were in many cases already technical artists. One of the Aixsponza/Entagma boys (Manuel) started out in XSI as it happens, the other was skilled in Processing (Moritz). And Simon Holmedal was a math nerd long before he gazed eyes on C4D, never mind Houdini. Ben Watt on the other hand is a great example of a C4D artist not used to technical workflows who rapidly adapted to using Houdini as his main platform.

Motion design is my thing and I encourage any artists I know to learn Houdini, but sadly for some, things don't click. At the moment I'm working with others on a Mograph/MASH type suite of tools for Houdini. Creating the cloners, effectors and falloffs of a typical motion graphics plugin suite is the easy part, making it a 'gateway drug' into the delights of Houdini, a little harder! But we feel one of the major hooks is performance and luckily the v16 release cycle has seen critical SOP nodes become thread friendly (e.g. the Copy and Point SOP's for starters). C4D and Maya's motion design tools are throttled by a single threaded core, so a suite of tools in Houdini with similar capabilities, whilst being optimised for fully threaded workflows will hopefully provide further encouragement for motion artists to deepen their Houdini knowledge. ;)

[phil harbath]

I would be interested to know if Motion Creation is as easy and powerful as it is in ICE,  I can find I can do whatever I want to do for the most part in ice, create point clouds in most any fashion, pop them in and out at any time, and apply animated colors to them as I see fit,  I would think that you do much of this in C4D but without the complete control you can get with ICE, however I wonder if the same ease of creation is there with Houdini.  I agree with others I would just assume continue to use Softimage/Ice, however, I worry about the day, Soft just doesn’t open.  I have had problems like this with other programs where just recently some updates whether it be windows 10 or the video drivers, have caused certain things to crash, and has caused me great anxiety.

 

From: Jonathan Moore

Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 7:07 PM

To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List.https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...

 

[Jonathan Moore]

The short answer to your question Phil is no. Control of motion in Houdini isn't as easy or intuitive as it is with XSI/ICE. But the longer answer is that you can easily build bespoke tools in Houdini to provide the exact flavour of motion control you favour.

Houdini gives you less out of the box but it's far easier to create bespoke tools in Houdini than with any other DCC.

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[Jordi Bares]

If your field is motion graphics and nonVFX FX... well then it’s clear you have to accept a certain level of programming and maths and tinkering with the software and how is architected.

Very interesting to invest time on higher manipulation layer... look forward to see that. 

Jb

Sent from my iPhone

[Jordi Bares]

I am very interested in understanding the things others see in Houdini that are wrong or not quite there.

What do you exactly mean by “control of motion”

Jb

Sent from my iPhone

[Alex Doss]

Hi, I hope this time my post will make it to this list.

As of now I have about 5 months of houdini experience. And I am totally in love with it, and love is growing by the minute.

At this moment and personally, I feel the biggest fault in H is the UI real estate it seems to claim.

As a Generalist/Td one has to access all aspects of a project during the course of a day. At the moment this is already fastidious.

Way too many dives IN/OUT to have access a given param. Promoting is ok, but I consider it, to some extend, a waste of time since u have to "stop" to promote. And that doesnt usually place the param where u need it to be. (finger tips)  

Hou needs to improve VASTLY on filtering. (hello 16.5) 

Viewport Display filter (geometry, nulls, bones, curves, pointclouds, vdb, isolate selected (without scene interference) etc... )

Tree view (Softimage explorer like) Urgently ! ( multi-selection, selected obj only, parameters only, takes, groups, material, stylesheets ,etc.. )

Currently treeview has some filters i mentioned already in place, yet far from optimal. "Takes" have to be checked with a specialized  "treeview" like window. Thats quite similar to the obtuse "Mayan" approach. Aka 1 editor per task. (Layer editor, Group editor, Take editor, StyleSheet editor.... )

Blender has one really neat feature on its 'node view' where parameters are already exposed on the node's box:

https://bensimonds.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/defocus_e1.gif

So basically, I feel houdini's interface still remains too much on your face, as opposed to ur work. Granted Im only starting, but  that's my 2 cents atm. 

Luv,

Al.

Alex Doss
Mobile: +31 (0) 6 5437-2515
web: www.alexdoss.com

[Alex Doss]

PS:

I always knew I would miss *a lot* that "middle click" feature on a menu to repeat its last operation.

And the ability to zoom in on a camera view. (SHIFT+Z) on Softimage.

Basically, all the strongest "workflow tricks" that softimage has.

--

Alex Doss
Mobile: +31 (0) 6 5437-2515
web: www.alexdoss.com

[Jonathan Moore]

What do you exactly mean by “control of motion”

That's a very opened ended statement but my own interpretation was that you don't get very far in motion design without a good understanding of a DCC's particle system and motion paths in general. On that basis the most obvious comparison is the intuitive nature of Mograph and X-Particles in C4D to Particles in Houdini. You won't get far in Houdini particle effects without expressions at the least and Vex Wrangles to match some of the stock effects in X-Particles. C4D & X-Particles both put intuitive UX front and centre; the whole question/answer metaphor used in X-Particles is a UX tour de force. When you couple that with the elegance of C4D's scene manager it makes for a very intuitive workflow.

Houdini is without doubt the more powerful and flexible option, but C4D enables a motion designer to get the task done faster and more intuitively.

[Jason S]

On 10/25/17 17:01, Mathieu Leclaire wrote:

I hear you, but how will you compete for a job when everyone else is using nail guns and you are only using a hammer? If all these new kids can do the job 100x faster then you can, why would they hire you instead? I'm not saying you can't do a good job with a hammer, but it'll take more time so you'll need to charge more money to compensate. You better make sure you're freaking amazing with that hammer if you want them to come back to you.

There is no doubt that becoming at least familiar if not functional in a variety of solutions can be good practice and a goo measure (if only for eventually down the line),
The same goes for in general staying aware of the current state of things.

But If we are still having this conversation almost 5 years post eol,
if only it was -mostly- about the force of habit or "comfort zones".

Or if even after serious evaluations and experiences, despite reduced talent base and a number of other obstacles, XSI continues to persists, I'd hardly think it's due to stubborn muscle memory...  but mostly -because- of the main "problem" being :: XSI quite arguably remains the nail gun in a great number of situations by a still pretty considerable margin.

There is no doubt capability to do anything in alternatives are there,
(or even more capability or depth in some areas, -sometimes- more performance in raw FPS, or sometimes not)
but similarly, if only the "speed of XSI" had to do with raw FPS, as opposed to general "no-brainer-ism" or fixing things by merly fiddling a little, or how in both time or requirements to get from A to B in real life scenarios, can often be more efficient by like a factor of 10 (without exaggeration), with little to no compromise in terms of flexibility (mostly approachable).

In other words, in many fronts has XSI been the computer, and we've been waiting for typewriters to first get lamps before getting solid-state micro switchers.

Or creation in general in XSI -- like modeling?, rigging? shading? scene/render management?  procedural process authoring? (all still major parts of doing CG last time I checked)
all remain comparatively quite a bit more intuitive, "direct", an reliable.
(which I must admit may contribute to making XSI really comfortable)

And I think that will only change once exactly that situation would considerably change.
(H v22? ... maybe?)
That, or once XSI would physically stop working, whichever comes first (at this pace, it seems the latter would come first, while not likely being anytime soon).

You know the old saying that "XSI has really good <<workflow>>"
to this day relative to other solutions, we didn't know how good Softimage "workflow" really was, until lots of us started to look at other workflows.

In any event, you're an artist looking for jobs? learn what is the most used out there.
If you're a shop or freelancer, and have the privilege and or possibility of working with Soft while it's possible, -- apart that you are benefiting from what is lined-up to be quite possibly if not probably a one in a lifetime thing (or a one time only cumulative combinations of things together at once), -- I think it's also beneficial for the entire CG arena as it's already been to a quite large degree, since keeping it alive also contributes to sustaining what continues to be a definite reference, giving rise to all sorts of constructive comparisons, ending-up being mostly around general usability and around ... --workflow--.

Anyhoo,
Cheers!
-J

[Jordi Bares]

I see… indeed you have a few tools there it is true that for motion graphics you have to deal with technical things in Houdini that nor XSI not Cinema4D force you to… this is something gI would love them to tweak so I will ask … who knows.

jb

[Jordi Bares]

BTW, I am sure you guys are aware but there are some tools for flocking like the ones you have in Cinema4D

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/dop/popcurveforce

http://www.sidefx.com/docs/houdini/nodes/dop/popmetaballforce

Out of the box, no need for programming

jb

[Jonathan Moore]

To be clear, I'm happy working with particles in Houdini (although I still turn to a Mootzoid powered XSI more regularly than Houdini). I'm speaking for the artists I support.

Jordi, even those nodes you list require knowledge of local variables and VEX Expressions if you want finer control over the the default behaviour (and what creative worth their salt doesn't want to go beyond the default behaviours).

[Jordi Bares]

Sorry if it feels like I am going on circles, I am trying to distill some important thoughts from this constructive chat.

On 27 Oct 2017, at 16:59, Jonathan Moore <jonatha...@gmail.com> wrote:

To be clear, I'm happy working with particles in Houdini (although I still turn to a Mootzoid powered XSI more regularly than Houdini). I'm speaking for the artists I support.

Jordi, even those nodes you list require knowledge of local variables and VEX Expressions if

That is the key word... “IF"

you want finer control over the the default behaviour (and what creative worth their salt doesn't want to go beyond the default behaviours).

Wouldn’t the finer control in any other package also imply you need to get a bit deeper and learn the idiosyncrasies of the tool?

For example, in Softimage you have to accept you have to dive into ICE and you will surely have to understand all the variables exposed along with the “vocabulary” of nodes ICE provides which is not trivial.

In a way, the more freedom you demand, the more knowledge the software demands from you and that is unescapable. It is only thanks to Mootozoid awesome tools that you don’t need to dive into flocking in Softimage.

My 2 cents on a Friday

Jb 

[Jonathan Moore]

I agree Jordi. The area that I'm pushing SideFX on is UX not capabilities.

The original point of the discussion here was regarding which current DCC is the most natural home for XSI artist's. The consensus on the recent 'Procedural in Motion' panel, which included Tim Bolland from Glassworks, was that there currently isn't a single package replacement. It's likely to be a mix of Houdini & Maya or Houdini and C4D depending on the type of work your shop is known for. Houdini isn't currently a replacement for XSI and it's still got a way to go in the UX department before it could be considered a like for like replacement for XSI. Take rigging as an example. 16.5 contains lots of improvements to the rigging toolset but Michael Goldfarb the lead TD for the Houdini rigging toolset freely admits that rigging is far to technical at the moment and the UX aspect of rigging in particular has a long way to go. Technically, there are some awesome rigging tools in Houdini, but getting your rigs fit for purpose in a speedy fashion still lags considerably behind Soft.

I've not been arguing against Houdini, but have simply been stating that I don't believe it to be a like for like replacement to Softimage. It shows the most potential of attaining that lofty goal but isn't there yet.

[Mirko Jankovic]

It is really sad that years after SI is killed best possible replacement is still years away....

What are we talking about? Let's kill best software it is not so profitable as others and push back production workflow and progress 10 years back.... who needs progress when you can charge subscription for every day getting close to where Softiamge already is (yes.. AD.. yes...)

ᐧ

[pedro santos]

Another hit :(
fabricengine.com

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[Andres Stephens]

This is devastating news!!! WTF!? I was betting on learning this and eventually investing in it. I didn’t want to be locked into one software the more I got into proceduralism.  Why!?

 

-Draise

 

From: pedro santos
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 12:27
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...

 

Another hit :(
fabricengine.com

 

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

It is really sad that years after SI is killed best possible replacement is still years away....

What are we talking about? Let's kill best software it is not so profitable as others and push back production workflow and progress 10 years back.... who needs progress when you can charge subscription for every day getting close to where Softiamge already is (yes.. AD.. yes...)

 

ᐧ

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[Jonathan Moore]

That's really is sad that Fabric Engine couldn't survive commercially. 

Devastating news for a team exceptional ex-XSI talents.

On 27 October 2017 at 18:34, Andres Stephens <drai...@outlook.com> wrote:

This is devastating news!!! WTF!? I was betting on learning this and eventually investing in it. I didn’t want to be locked into one software the more I got into proceduralism.  Why!?

 

-Draise

 

From: pedro santos
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 12:27
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...

 

Another hit :(
fabricengine.com

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

It is really sad that years after SI is killed best possible replacement is still years away....

What are we talking about? Let's kill best software it is not so profitable as others and push back production workflow and progress 10 years back.... who needs progress when you can charge subscription for every day getting close to where Softiamge already is (yes.. AD.. yes...)

 

ᐧ

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Pedro Alpiarça dos Santos           probiner.xyz

 

 

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[Mirko Jankovic]

Well hopefully they will go to SideFX... but yea.. BETA vs VHS all over again

ᐧ

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 7:37 PM, Jonathan Moore <jonatha...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's really is sad that Fabric Engine couldn't survive commercially. 

Devastating news for a team exceptional ex-XSI talents.

On 27 October 2017 at 18:34, Andres Stephens <drai...@outlook.com> wrote:

This is devastating news!!! WTF!? I was betting on learning this and eventually investing in it. I didn’t want to be locked into one software the more I got into proceduralism.  Why!?

 

-Draise

 

From: pedro santos
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 12:27
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...

 

Another hit :(
fabricengine.com

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

It is really sad that years after SI is killed best possible replacement is still years away....

What are we talking about? Let's kill best software it is not so profitable as others and push back production workflow and progress 10 years back.... who needs progress when you can charge subscription for every day getting close to where Softiamge already is (yes.. AD.. yes...)

 

ᐧ

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Mirko Jankovic

http://www.cgfolio.com/mirko-jankovic

Need to find freelancers fast?

www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

http://www.gpuoven.com/

[Jonathan Moore]

That would be my hope too Mirko.

Mirko Jankovic

http://www.cgfolio.com/mirko-jankovic

Need to find freelancers fast?

www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

http://www.gpuoven.com/

[Matt Lind]

It likely died for the reason you just stated - you 'eventually' wanted to
learn. Problem is most people had the same sentiments.

They made the right move initially of targeting the space between the other
DCCs, but I think staying there long term was a mistake.


Matt


Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:34:02 +0000
From: Andres Stephens <drai...@outlook.com>
Subject: RE: Softimage - not going away...

To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.

This is devastating news!!! WTF!? I was betting on learning this and

eventually investing in it. I didn?t want to be locked into one software the

more I got into proceduralism. Why!?

-Draise

[Jonathan Moore]

MPC and PSYOP output some great work with Fabric Engine but in the end I always felt it was too narrowly aimed at senior TD's with plenty of programming experience. The success of ICE was fuelled by the compounds that acted as a gateway drug to the inner workings. I thought maybe that Kraken would develop into that gateway drug, but after seeing experienced riggers feeling out of their comfort zone, soon realised it wasn't to be.

When Eric Mootz joined the team I thought maybe that would bring about tools for technically minded artists who weren't necessarily TD's.

Whatever the reasons I feel for the FE team after all their hard efforts. But I feel as one door closes others will open for them, folk with that much talent don't remain jobless for long.

On 27 October 2017 at 22:03, Matt Lind <spey...@hotmail.com> wrote:

It likely died for the reason you just stated - you 'eventually' wanted to
learn.  Problem is most people had the same sentiments.

They made the right move initially of targeting the space between the other
DCCs, but I think staying there long term was a mistake.


Matt


Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2017 17:34:02 +0000
From: Andres Stephens <drai...@outlook.com>
Subject: RE: Softimage - not going away...
To: "Official Softimage Users Mailing List.

This is devastating news!!! WTF!? I was betting on learning this and
eventually investing in it. I didn?t want to be locked into one software the
more I got into proceduralism.  Why!?

-Draise

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[Gerbrand Nel]

IMHO Fabric targeted a ideological market that doesn't exist. The people who loved ICE but needed to work in maya.
People like me.
Well I think most of "us" tried but gave up because it still lived in maya.
You had to learn maya and fabric, and when something didn't work, you didn't know if it was maya, fabric, or you.
Fabric was like covering a turd in chocolate.
If you are careful, you only taste chocolate, but softimage was forgiving and turned us all into reckless 3d maniacs.
There was no avoiding the turd!
After about 3 months of this you realize that learning houdini just makes more sense.
I'm sad to see another great piece of software go, but like Jonathan said: These folks should find their place in the sun soon!
G

Virus-free. www.avg.com

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[Christopher Crouzet]

I guess that this kind of comment only confirms how difficult it was for them to market their product and get potential customers to understand its purpose.

Disappointed to see Fabric Engine coming to an end.

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[Jordi Bares]

It is clear to me that developing a new 3D application is extremely expensive and the size of the market just does not justify the effort, which is the reason it was so very disheartening when AD killed Softimage.. Building anything similar to Softimage would cost a fortune to barely make a dent in the near monopoly we are experiencing.

What I am sure is that those developers are gold-dust and they will hopefully find an even better gig in the very near future.

Best wishes

jb

[skuby]

Jordi, what you just stated is exactly why I suggest that 'we' need to stop looking at things as a Softimage replacement where you do the majority of your work, from start to finish, inside of one application.  We have to pretend we are big studios, split everything into smaller parts, using a myriad of applications and dedicate each app to a very specific pre-defined task.  No more trying to master a whole software or expecting it to be the 'be all / end all' solution.  It's too time consuming and the 'reliability' of your time investment isn't secure enough to justify the old approach.

This sort of effort isn't without major inconveniences but by leveraging the very best possible software for each task, I think it can be turned into a clear advantage.

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[Mirko Jankovic]

How replacing 1 tool with 5 or more, and work that could be done by 1 man now requires 5 or more as well can be advantage?

ᐧ

[skuby]

Investing your time into mastering the totality of one major software is risky.

The specific example that I want to test in the coming months doesn't seem unreasonable for one person (and you could swap the parts out to suit your tastes/budget/needs/prior experience) (but please critique the idea.  I value your experience Mirko and I've lurked around enough to pick up a lot from you, so feel free to tear the idea apart):

Modeling (Blender +Plug-ins & Marvelous Deisgner). Sculpting (Mudbox). Retopo for baking/animation (ZBrush & Blender). UV's (semi-automated via Houdini). Baking/Painting (Mudbox & Substance). Rigging+Animation (Houdini or possibly Akeytsu).  Everything else i.e. Shading/Lighting/Hair/Dynamics/FX/etc. (Houdini or Unreal Engine 4).  Then pick your favorite compositor.

With the above, I already know Blender and the plug-ins I need for modeling/Marvelous Designer/Mudbox/ZBrush (and a decent bit of UE4) for the tasks I want to accomplish.  The rest of it is a work in progress/I'm still deciding.

The cost isn't even too bad.  Blender = free.  Marvelous Designer = $50 a month as needed.  Mudbox $10 a month.  ZBrush one time $800.  Substance $20 a month or as needed.  Houdini Indie $200 a year (OR if you needed it Houdini FX $2,495 a year after the first ($4,495) year).  Akeytsu (Haven't tested it yet, but it's cheap at $200 and it looks powerful).  Unreal Engine Free up front + 0% to 5% depending on the project.

I cannot see myself mastering every single one of those (or even ever mastering just Houdini on it's own), but I can see myself using each one to great effect for a very very specific task and leveraging that tool's specific strengths to improve the final quality (and perhaps in spots even winning back some lost time).

For me the options are stay with Softimage and eventually be completely limited, try to pick a major software to master again to replace Softimage (aka. Houdini / Blender / Maya) which seems very risky/foolish.  Or go the above route, changing things on an as needed basis.

On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 7:39 PM, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

How replacing 1 tool with 5 or more, and work that could be done by 1 man now requires 5 or more as well can be advantage?

ᐧ

[Jordi Bares]

Pretty much my though.

On 28 Oct 2017, at 13:39, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

How replacing 1 tool with 5 or more, and work that could be done by 1 man now requires 5 or more as well can be advantage?

ᐧ

[Jordi Bares]

Although I understand where you are coming from the minimising risk side, it is also true that you end up investing a lot more in both, the software and glue to communicate various software applications with a myriad of file formats and what not, therefore I advocate for a hybrid approach in which;

- You define your FX and render backbone (one single application always) and everything else feeds it.

- No plugins if possible unless you have a solid environment resolution system in place and are willing to maintain it.

- No strategic dependencies with one manufacturer with a proven record of discontinuing software (Apple and Autodesk are specially bad)

- And make sure you build as much as possible in open standards like Alembic, OpenColorIO, OpenImageIO, USD, VDB, etc...

With that in my head, I go and evaluate the next things to define what should be my backbone.

> Software companies with a fair price and licensing structure have 1 point.

> Software companies that support and adopt open standards have an extra point.

> Software companies with strong R&D also have another extra point.

> Software companies that maintain their code have another extra point.

> Software companies that top support have another extra point.

> Software companies that understand what we do have another extra point.

> Software companies that keep refining their UX have another extra point.

> Software companies that keep refining their core have an extra point.

> Software companies that listen to their customers in a prompt and agile way have another extra point.

You make the choice of course for your particular scenarios but this is my view of how to choose your backbone.

Hope this makes sense.

jb

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[Andres Stephens]

Seems like open source is the best 3D software model to make something float indefinitely regardless of market trends. Hope FE does that…. Unless they got bought out or something.

 

-Draise

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com <softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> on behalf of Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2017 9:41:04 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list
Subject: Re: Softimage - not going away...

 

[skuby]

Jordi

Thanks for the input, your 'point list' is very well thought out.  I think I'm covered (UE4 side for realtime and Houdini for composited works).

I'd give a point for serious Cross-Platform support (OSX, Linux).  I think I might even give more than 1 point to open standards support (in theory) but it's not always viable, I wish it were.  Walled off FBX is dominating, especially in games, for transporting rigged characters and animation to and from UE4 or the other needed devils like NVidia's game tools for generating clothing simulation files.  It's worth a point on your list at the very least but for me it's unfortunately make or break.

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[Stefan Kubicek]

On a brighter note, you won't need the NVidia Apex clothing plugins to set up cloth in UE4 anymore, at least if I get their claims right for version 4.18

https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/unreal-engine-4-18-released

(You will need to scroll down to approx. 30% of the page). Says also that the old APEX plugin workflow is still supported.

S