Armageddon
Guy Rabiller
http://www.softimage.com/press/
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guy rabiller
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Thiago Costa
kim aldis
What usually happens with these things; first everyone runs around like chickens with their heads cut off talking mostly bollox mostly based on unfounded speculation and very little experience of what really happens when one company buys another. Then for a year or so everything carries on exactly as if nothing had happened while the two companies figure out whether what they expected to happen is really going to happen. Then it carries on some more like nothing really happened, the dust dies down and the two of them get on with the business of making product and money. Right now we're in the talking bollox phase. Bet it's passed by the weekend.
Will XSI be trashed? I doubt it very much. It does occasionally happen (shake) but not often and when it does it's rarely deliberate - I doubt shake was. No company, especially right now, is going to chuck 35 mill down the crapper, especially on something that isn't really a threat, just becauseit thinks it might be one day maybe. Maybe some people will leave, but I doubt many unless things get really horrible, which they won't; things don't seem that bad at. Will people be fired? When the team is as small as it is, not likely. Don't forget, the company is the team.
This is not a bad thing. It's maybe not a good thing either. It's just a thing. It's not going to impact that greatly for a while yet and if it does it's not going to happen overnight and it won't be anything like as much of an impact as everyone seems to think it will be.
Matt Lind
know it will be in complete stagnation for a while because 90% of the
industry is owned by one company.
Matt
Robert Chapman
Matt Lind
From: owne...@Softimage.COM [mailto:owne...@Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of Robert Chapman
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:27 PM
To: X...@Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: Armageddon
Guy Rabiller
Well, I think it's now, as never than before, the time for all
developers around to invest more and more in open source solutions and
open source standards, and I hope they will realize this today and wake up.
I have no doubt XSI won't be trashed, but despite the lovely interview
of Marc Stevens and Marc Petit, I have no doubt either on how the XSI
developers I know must feel deep inside about this.
The point is that most of the industry is now owned by one company.
This is the result of most peoples, companies, studios doing all
'proprietary' tools and softwares. That's great but... the game is now
over for the 3d tools as we now them today. How long Houdini will stand
? I don't know and I wish them luck.. Lightwave ? Messiah ? C3D ? .. We
are left with Blender, the only open source solution around, but so much
work still to do.. - don't laugh, you may be surprised sooner or later
by this software.
So what next ? The next big thing coming is real time shooting with
believable, ai assisted, real time performance virtual actors. Bringing
back the magic of shooting into 3d.
And in this field, the technology is now with Natural Motion ( now close
from NVidia ) vs Autodesk ( again.. )... This is the next big fight. And
both technologies are proprietary, closed and inaccessible ( because
they 'forgot' to bring their technology to the machinima 'market', only
games matter right now.. ).
Are we prepare to loose this fight again ?
There is one last hope: Open Source development, the best anti-trust
solution, ever.
If you, developers around the world, can imagine a world without linux,
mozilla, open office, mono, gimp, Qt .. that's fine.. else wake up,
share knowledge and skills, and contribute.
--
guy rabiller
kim aldis a écrit :
Sam Cuttriss
Alan Fregtman
It seemed awful at the time, but in the end Disney did not enslave
Pixar; they just wanted a slice of the profit. Pixar kept its people,
vision and thirst for quality, continuing to make awesome, original
movies with a genuinely good story.
I want to think that Autodesk will let Softimage reach into their
pockets and fund development of even more awesome futures for both.
What I really don't look forward to is the "XSI 2010" name. =(
-- Alan
Wayne Williams
positive for Soft. Autodesk has fairly deep pockets and they kept the dev
guys on from the Mudbox team to the best of my knowledge. Perhaps innovation
and competition will be stoked by trying to out do one another for the R&D
cash :)
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7:54 AM
Guy Rabiller
Sure and Autodesk can now work on the next generation of tools, and I
bet we all will forget about XSI, Maya and Max in a few years because
there will be 'something new'.
The next software generation will, with no doubt, kicks @sses, the
problem is that all the Autodesk, Alias and now Softimage software
*PATENTS* are now in the Autodesk camp.
Software patents.. Rings a bell ? This is what makes the most wonderfull
minds out there to waste time by reinventing the wheel and solutions to
problems already solved.
--
guy rabiller
Alan Fregtman a écrit :
bilkaxsi
the empire strike back !
the force be with us brother's
the empire strike back !
the force be with us brother's
Philipp Oeser
> Well, I think it's now, as never than before, the time for all
> developers around to invest more and more in open source solutions and
> open source standards, and I hope they will realize this today and
> wake up.
>
> I have no doubt XSI won't be trashed, but despite the lovely interview
> of Marc Stevens and Marc Petit, I have no doubt either on how the XSI
> developers I know must feel deep inside about this.
>
> The point is that most of the industry is now owned by one company.
>
> This is the result of most peoples, companies, studios doing all
> 'proprietary' tools and softwares. That's great but... the game is now
> over for the 3d tools as we now them today. How long Houdini will
> stand ? I don't know and I wish them luck.. Lightwave ? Messiah ? C3D
> ? .. We are left with Blender, the only open source solution around,
> but so much work still to do.. - don't laugh, you may be surprised
> sooner or later by this software.
>
>
> solution, ever.
>
> If you, developers around the world, can imagine a world without
> linux, mozilla, open office, mono, gimp, Qt .. that's fine.. else wake
> up, share knowledge and skills, and contribute.
>
> --
> guy rabiller
>
+ 1
as guy put it: there is work to do
for developers: you can follow up development towards blender 2.5
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-taskforce25/ (will take off after
conference)
http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/
and in the forums
if you are interested: the blender conference is on right now (and the
whole weekend)
http://www.blender.org/community/blender-conference/conference-schedule/
live cam: http://connect.waag.org/zaal.php
I know this is a hijack, sorry for this.
I do wish all the best for the people at SI for they have done great
work for 3D in general.
And for everyone else that they still get an innovative product worth
the investment they put into it.
--
Philipp Oeser
Software Engineer
fon: +49 (0)40 226 226 00
fax: +49 (0)40 226 226 026
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kim aldis
From: owne...@Softimage.COM
[mailto:owne...@Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of Robert Chapman
Sent: 23 October 2008 23:27
To: X...@Softimage.COM
Subject: Re: Armageddon
not sure yet if Im gonna welcome our new 3D overlords.
Robert Chapman
kim aldis
You’d do that too, wouldn’t you.
Hey, I already did.
Sam Cuttriss
keeping the dark ages dark since 1300...
Matt Lind
One of the downsides of having only one solution is that if there's a showstopping bug, you're literally screwed. You don't have the option to using another software to work around the problem.
Matt
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owne...@Softimage.COM
> [mailto:owne...@Softimage.COM] On Behalf Of Guy Rabiller
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 12:57 AM
> To: X...@Softimage.COM
> Subject: Re: Armageddon
>
>
Byron Nash
byronnash 
doltman7 
doltman7
Byron Nash
Guy Rabiller
That's exactly my point, Matt.
Our only hope: Open Source alternative(s)..
--
guy rabiller
Matt Lind a écrit :
Sam J. Bowling
>
>as guy put it: there is work to do
>for developers: you can follow up development towards blender 2.5
>http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-taskforce25/ (will take off after
>conference)
>http://lists.blender.org/pipermail/bf-blender-cvs/
>and in the forums
>
>if you are interested: the blender conference is on right now (and the
>whole weekend)
>http://www.blender.org/community/blender-conference/conference-schedule/
>live cam: http://connect.waag.org/zaal.php
>
I'm pretty sure Blender has no real future in the Professional 3d word, in
the same way Linux has no real future in the desktop OS market.
I'm also pretty sure XSI will be fine.
--
Sam J. Bowling
Sam J. Bowling
boards said that LightWave could do everything Face Robot could with only a
few morphs. So it has to be good, right?
Oh, and there is also Blender. I hear somebody made a movie in it once.
Why do people always think I'm being sarcastic?
"And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them
that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to
toil in their underground sugar caves." - Kent Brockman
Why has this been stuck in my head since I heard about the takeover?
--
Sam J. Bowling
kim aldis
it, that's life.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owne...@Softimage.COM [mailto:owne...@Softimage.COM] On
> Behalf Of Matt Lind
> Sent: 24 October 2008 18:52
> To: X...@Softimage.COM
> Subject: RE: Armageddon
>
> And where do we turn if that 'something new' is botched or something we
> really don't like?
>
Alan Jones
> Why do people always think I'm being sarcastic?
Because your thoughts on the linux desktop are so far off they show you've got
no contact with the status of the linux desktop today or its
penetration, especially
within schools suggesting that where most of us were brought up on windows many
of the next generation will be brought up on linux? ;)
Though I do think XSI will be fine, at least for what would be
considered the lifetime of
the product. Everyone's feeling so down about this - isn't it just
verifying exactly what
we've been saying to our maya friends. XSI is an exceptionally good
package with tonnes
of technology superior to that available in maya. Now we've got proof
that even Autodesk
think so :D
Cheers,
Alan.
Guy Rabiller
> ../.. I'm pretty sure Blender has no real future in the Professional
3d word ../..
Blender is already in use in the Professional 3d world,
> ../.. in the same way Linux has no real future in the desktop OS
market ../..
Linux is already heavily used in the Professional 3d world,
> ../.. I'm also pretty sure XSI will be fine ../..
I'm pretty sure you have no idea of what's happening in the Professional
3d world.
--
guy rabiller
Sam J. Bowling a écrit :
Malcolm Zaloon
__________________
Malcolm Zaloon - Lighting TD - XSI planet Administrator.
xsiplanet.com - report XSI bugs!
New XSI 7 area! Enjoy.
javier
dcc is dead anyway. it is all about games now and in that world adsk is not a player - yet
Norm Olsen
"it is all about games now and in that world adsk is not a player - yet"
Are you kidding me?!
Maya and 3DS Max (especially Max) is heavily used in games...It is practically THE tool of choice. Not sure where you are getting the idea that Autodesk isn't a player in games... they are practically the biggest player in that industry.
________________________________
> Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2008 11:39:56 -0700
> From: javie...@gmail.com
> To: X...@Softimage.COM
> Subject: Re: Armageddon
>
_________________________________________________________________
Guy Rabiller
I understand your scepticisme. And your arguments make sense.
But lets brainstorm a bit - if you have time as this is a long post.
There are 'workflows', there are 'features' and there are 'jobs done',
and all these in the context of 'pipelines'.
Ultimately, the most important thing is 'jobs done', I think we are all
agree on this one.
Next comes 'features', because if you cannot do what you want you simply
have to switch tool ( for instance peoples using Maya or Houdini or even
Realflow aside XSI because of its *preicestoric* particles. ).
Last but not least, 'workflows', making the all process more or less
efficient, wich means 'easier' and/or 'faster'. I dissociate easiness
and speed on purpose, because one can be very fast at doing complicated
things if he knows very well a tool or a procedure, even with a tool
with a not so good workflow, while someone else may be slow at something
easier for several reasons even if the tool has a better workflow. On a
side note, I don't know if you tried Houdini, but the workflow is very
very very far from XSI or Maya and it hasn't changed a bit for years.
Nonetheless, you can do things with this package you won't be able to do
in any 'modern' 3d package available today.
Anyway, peoples usualy use the right tool to get the job done, despite
the workflow. If the workflow is good then great. If not then, well, the
job has to be done anyway, even if it will be more painfull or slow.
Remember back in the days at Pixar when Ed Catmull had to enter all the
vertices coordinates by hand from a drawing to create his elephant. What
a workflow! But the job has been done.
If you have to pay a big price for the workflow, you may have to buy a
cheaper product if you can't afford the 'best' workflow, as long as the
features you need are present; Lots of great jobs have been done with
Lightwave, C4D, Messiah, even Animation Master (!). Even with Blender..
( you have Fluids Simulation in there, even 'Mudbox like' tools now.. ).
Artists want to be confortable with their tool(s) of choice, speed is
second priority, even if they usualy work faster when confortable.
Technical peoples don't really care about workflows, one of their
priority is openness of the product, and wich features are missing in
there they will have to implement ( that's the enjoyable side of the
work, when the product is open enough that is.. ), another of their
priority is to make the all pipeline works ( that's the nightmare side
of the job ).
Studios want the all process to be cheap and fast, time is money, and if
possible, high quality.
In all this, what are the real problems we can identify ?
-> The Pipeline. Gathering datas from all sort of tools, cleaning,
adapting, formating, translating. A *Data* problem.
-> Workflows tied to Features. ( features integrated in a tool dictating
how you must 'see' and 'edit' the datas ). A *Process* / *Interaction*
decoupling problem.
If you know a bit about software development, design and patterns, does
this ring a bell ? MVC ? Model ( Datas ) / View ( Interaction ) /
Controler ( Process ) - or, alternatively, the three tiers. Nowedays, it
is considered bad design to mix the three, to not clearly separate them
in clear distinct libraries and functionalities. But in our industry,
conceptualy, we are swimming in this mess.
In short, if you want 'features', you have to buy the 'workflow' wich
comes along. And the datas you create have to be carefully massaged to
be gently accepted by other tools ( when it is even possible without
proprietary development ).
Lets disgress a bit, and look at the sound and music industry. Back in
1983, a standard was born, the 'MIDI' protocole ( Musical Instrument
Digital Interface ). This has been created because of a similar mess at
that time with electronic instruments and softwares and different
standards from different constructors. But as this industry involved
'hardware' - a much heavier industry than just creating 'software' -
companies quickly realized for the need of a standard and finaly agreed
for it. Suddenly, all electronic instruments and softwares could
communicate.
One big problem solved. But MIDI is not actual sound right ?
Fortunately, sound file format is less problematic than 3d content, and
naturaly all softwares now accept all the ( few ) left formats, be it
wav, aiff, ogg, etc.. Still one problem remained. Interaction vs
Process. Thanks to the Steinberg initiative, the VST plugin standard was
born.
Another big problem solved, you choose your *workflow*, you buy Cubase,
Nendo, Live, Reason, whatever and you still can use your favorite reverb
effect *process* in all of these softwares thanks to the VST plugin
standard ( and now a few other standards too ).
Today it's a dream to work in this sound/audio industry. Plenty of
available workflows, plenty of high quality processes ( plugins ) that
you can use with your favorite 'interface'. Plenty of innovations and
creativity ( virtual synthesizers, effects, .. ).
While this is not directly transposable to our 3d industry, this should
gives us hints on what we are missing and what should be done.
We can see that, up until know, 3d Software Companies *FAILED* to agree
on one or several standards. No standard file format. No standard
communication protocole. No standard plugin API. We can see the result:
without standards and agreements, it's the law of the strongest. Now, we
know who is the strongest.
No surprise in all this, because when the datas, the interaction and
processes are intimately tied, a new company who want to create a new 3d
software has to do all the work again. Create a new file format ( Why
not ? It's so much fun, especialy when the format is closed.. ), a new
workflow, and new processes ( and carefully avoid or reinvent patented
technologies.. ). This is an extremely expensive effort. Remember the
price of a Softimage 3D licence ? I bought mine for ~ $40 000 back in
the days we had to use SGI workstations. How one new company can expect
to be able to find the financial resources to do all the work again and
create the 'next-gen' application in such a small industry with todays
cheap licence prices ( yes they are cheap ) ?
Impossible. Only one or two monster companies can afford. Not a new one
( or perhaps with a foolish rich mecene/sponsor, who knows.. ).
Basically, it's over..
..except if.. Open Standards are created *and accepted* by the industry.
By you, me, the studios, in short, the *clients*.
With a data oriented approach ( notice Marc Petit mentioned it in the
interview, and this is where we are going ), a standard protocole to
access the datas ( Verse ? ), a standard file format ( COLLADA ? ), a
standard API ( ? ), several companies, groups, individuals could work
together. The mental images RealityServer is an exemple of this
approach, so is the blender/verse/uni-verse initiative. The idea: Datas
are centralized, the tools we use access the datas, in a 'live' way,
with a *standardised* protocole. Many peoples can work simultaneously on
the same data bank. Many client applications could be created with as
many workflows, look & feel as wanted or offered. A standard API would
open the process aspect to third parties plugins, usable in any client
application, accessing the datas in the same way through the
standardised protocole.
See the picture ? Plenty of available 'workflows', plenty of high
quality 'processes' that you can use with your favorite 'interface'.
Plenty of innovations and creativity..
Until then, don't dream too much about what Autodesk can do for you.
Just think about what you can do, for your industry.
--
guy rabiller
Malcolm Zaloon a écrit :
> xsiplanet.com <http://xsiplanet.com> - report XSI bugs!
> New XSI 7 area! Enjoy.
---
Malcolm Zaloon
Matt Lind
application replaces what is currently many.
Example: Realtime shaders not getting an OpenGL context in XSI 6.5. You
can't work around that. Either have to use an earlier version of XSI,
or have to wait for the next update and hope it's fixed - which isn't
guaranteed either.
It's a legit concern.
Matt