Moon DEM

[Laurence Dodd]

Hi, I have a mahoosive DEM of the moon from Nasa, but its not like any DEM I have come across before, the info is at the far ends of the histogram, and nothing I can find understands it.

Any tips gratefully received

--

Laurence Dodd
Porkpie Animation

E: laur...@porkpie.tv
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[Ben Barker]

Can QGIS open it? I've have very little experience with this generally so sorry if this is obvious, but for one project I was able to add elevation data as a raster layer in QGIS and then export a tif.

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[Daniel Brassard]

Can you confirm the format you received the file? Are they LDEM as per the description on this site:

https://astrogeology.usgs.gov/search/details/Moon/LRO/LOLA/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014/cub

If they are tif file (you said massive therefore I assume they are), then they are 16 bits LDEM elevation with 256 level representing 118.4505876 meters per pixel elevation. The elevations were computed by subtracting the lunar reference radius of 1737.4 km from the surface radius measurements. Thus elevation values are the distance above or below the reference sphere.

[Marc-Andre Carbonneau (PM)]

I have no clue if it’s even possible but have you tried using Gaia to open it?

https://quadspinner.com/Gaea

there’s a free version

[Daniel Brassard]

Look like you have clamping issues at both ends of the spectrum and in the middle. You may have to rescale the map to see the data loss by the clamping.

[Steven Caron]

If this is the 96k moon DEM that NASA put out a while ago then I have used this exact height map before. Do you have the original CUB file? either way you should download GDAL and use the tools to print information about the map and do conversions.

gdalinfo

gdal_translate

https://www.gdal.org/gdal_utilities.html  

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[Steven Caron]

Ya, I believe Daniel is probably right. When I converted this map a couple years ago I went from the original .cub file to .tif (so big i had to chunk it into 2 smaller pieces) using gdal_translate and then from .tif to .exr using oiiotool and then again with oiiotool to put the two chunks back together.

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[Laurence Dodd]

Hi,

Yeah, I should have updated this, but once I worked out it wasnt normal I did track down QGIS, and it opens it fine.

I havent yet managed to get it out successfully, but I will.

Thanks

[Sven Constable]

I also did some tests with QGIS, CARIS Easy View and ER-Viewer. I used the 8GB moon map (92160 x 46080px). All of them can import it but so far  I wasn't able to get a high quality, high resolution image out of any of them.

 

Sven

[Laurence Dodd]

Me neither,its frustrating, because you can see it in QGIS translated. 

"yes, thats it, now export that", but its either crushed or the like the original. I'm giving up for now, I've run out of time on this one and have used an 8k texture I found ready to go.

[Sven Constable]

In case you'll need to convert those geo-tiffs again in the future, "ERDAS ER-Viewer" works. Not sure what I did wrong the first time but I exported a huge map straight away. The 16bit export shows black images in PS, however.

Here are the conversions, if someone find it useful (tiff 8bit RGB):

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_export_8k.tif

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_export_16k.tif

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_export_32k.tif

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_export_64k.tif

[kla...@bluewin.ch]

very nice! Thanks a lot, Sven.
CHeers, Klaus

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Betreff : RE: Moon DEM

[Sven Constable]

I just noticed that the higher resolutions do not contain more details. Seems to me that ER-Viewer did some interpolation internally to compute the images. The outputted images were indeed of larger sizes (8k to 64k) but in direct comparison in PS (8k upscaled to 64k), I don't see a difference between them.

Apologies for the download links. They're all pretty much the same image.

 

Sven  

[Steven Caron]

If people are interested I could get the 96k working again and share it in whatever format people want?

[Jordi Bares]

I would love it, if is of any interest I volunteer to set it up in Houdini for the community at large to use.

jb

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[Sven Constable]

I'm also interested.

I just did another comparison and it seems to me that my exports were correct. The original 8GB image imported into GDIS doesn't look any better than the exported images.

Here's a PS file to compare. There is a difference in resolutions but barely noticeble.

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_comparison.psd

If I zoom into that region with GDIS, it looks nearly the same and there is no further detail in it. I assume its just a "bad" pixel to detail ratio in the original NASA image.  Or maybe they blurred it for public release.

 

(I restored the download links btw)

 

Sven

[Jeff McFall]

I am interested and would likely use it in Houdini as well

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com <softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> On Behalf Of Jordi Bares
Sent: Sunday, March 31, 2019 5:49 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Moon DEM

 

EXTERNAL

[Steven Caron]

It will take a few days, I'll post back when I am done...

*written with my thumbs

[Laurence Dodd]

Been away, but thanks for all this.

It was for this
https://www.standard.co.uk/go/london/arts/sculptor-sir-antony-gormley-virtual-reality-installation-moon-a4085006.html 

 

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[Steven Caron]

I am finally able to spend some time on this and I just want to check with everyone that is interested what the expected result is.

an EXR file?

normalized 0-1 or in a specific unit measurement? meters? feet?

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[Rob Wuijster]

feet?
what are you? a savage? :P

normalized exr sounds good though. :)

Rob

\/-------------\/----------------\/

[Steven Caron]

Oh, haha... I meant, km or meters.

*written with my thumbs

[Jeff McFall]

Normalized sounds more flexible to me too.

exr

 

beggar not a chooser

[Steven Caron]

Ok, I have a file unnormalized but Nuke keeps crapping out on it. Last time I worked on this Nuke handled it fine. It was Nuke 10 and on Linux though and Linux has better memory handling.

Also, the metadata fields are busted and I don't know why. Anyone have any tool suggestions for viewing and editing metadata? 

*written with my thumbs

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[Steven Caron]

Hey Jordi,

Where are we putting this file?

[Jordi Bares]

I would suggest an open sourced GitHub repository but given there are these truly large images we will have to install the LFS git plugin to track large files properly, is this something you guys would be ok with?

Should we find a different approach?

Jb

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[Steven Caron]

I believe the free LFS repo would only allow 1 person a month to download the file.

https://help.github.com/en/articles/about-storage-and-bandwidth-usage 

Right now my file is way less than the original, not 100% sure why but my initial guess is the fact the original file didn't have any compression. My normalized file is 1.08 GB...

 

On Sat, Apr 20, 2019 at 3:09 AM Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would suggest an open sourced GitHub repository but given there are these truly large images we will have to install the LFS git plugin to track large files properly, is this something you guys would be ok with?

Should we find a different approach?

[Jordi Bares]

I see… May we should think on holding the very high res assets on a P2P network and share it/sync it in this way?

Something on the lines of 

BitTorrent Sync? (Now Resilio Sync which is not free)

LibreVault

Or something on the lines? Any ideas?

thx

jb

 

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[Sven Constable]

Hey Steven,

if you want, I can send you a ftp account to upload it to my server. I will then make it available for everyone with a direct download link. I don't except much traffic coming from the list members, so it won't be a problem for my web hoster. I would keep it available for at least a year.

Just a thought. Torrent would be also ok to me.

 

Sven

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Jordi Bares

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2019 1:02 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

Subject: Re: Moon DEM

[Steven Caron]

OK, great... at least getting it out there so I can get someone to check my work. make sure it will work for the most common cases. i will write up a readme in the mean time too, so if someone needs to get it back to meters or km they can still do that.

send along the ftp account info.

[Sven Constable]

Download link to the exr conversions by Steven Caron. Thanks, Steven!

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_normalized.exr

[Steven Caron]

FYI, no one should try to open this in photoshop... I highly doubt it will work regardless of how much memory you have. It works fine in Nuke and after tile/mipmapping it works in SItoA... attached some proof

[Jeff McFall]

Cool – thanks!

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com <softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> On Behalf Of Steven Caron
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2019 6:50 PM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Moon DEM

 

EXTERNAL

[Jens Lindgren]

This is a nice initiative!

I did the same with the Earth some years ago. However, at that time it was impossible to maketx of a large file like that. So I had to split up the Earth texture in to 32 UDIM tiles to be able to use it.

Some thoughts on this… I would much better prefer if the texture was in some physical units instead of normalized. Would it be possible to share both, or some information about how to turn the normalized image back to real units?

/Jens.

--

Jens Lindgren

------------------------------------

VFX Supervisor & Lead TD

Magoo 3D Studios

[Lee Hallett]

On a similar note....

Do any of you know of any free and accessible resources for getting hi-res DEMs (and associated sat imagery) of this here planet Earth that we are mostly sat on? 

I've had various resources in the past, but they seem to have all dried up, or become very, very expensive... I had portals that used to be able to chomp into google maps, but they've stopped working... I'm not talking just about the US - infact, I'm probably much more interested in Europe side of the puddle..

Lee Hallett

VFX supervisor/Designer/Animator

+44 (0)7919207871

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[Steven Caron]

Yes, on both points... I can make the meter file accessible and I was going to write a small readme for changing the range back to meters. In the mean time...

-9128.5 min

10781.5 max

*written with my thumbs

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[Jordi Bares]

Thanks Steve, that is a great idea.

BTW, I have download these files and I am already processing them to UDIM as performance-wise, it is a no-brainer.

Stay tuned

Jb

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[Jordi Bares]

One thing I want to ask… For memory performance I normally make the images power of 2 so the new image I use to convert 

From: 92160 x 46080

To: 81920 x 40960

Then generate 4K based tiles which are very easy to process and manage on any computer.

Is that ok with everyone? If you prefer to be very precise I will keep it to the original size and produce 1K images but be aware, that turns out to be 3200 files.

I hate to loose data though.

jb

[Steven Caron]

I honestly think if its tiled and mipmapped any modern renderer will handle it.

I have rendered this DEM using multiple renderers now and never needed to do UDIMs. Maybe it was more performant to do UDIMs but breaking the sphere into UDIMs and not getting issues at the edges of UVs seemed not worth it.

[Jordi Bares]

You will be surprised. ;-)

jb

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[Max Crow]

Steve,

What diffuse map did you use? Could a link be be included in the 'read me' or as a download in the "moon pack" too? Also this is really great asset, thanks, as its a big year for the Moon with the Apollo 50 anniversary and all the rest of the projects going on this year. 

Max Crow

Creative Director

NSC Creative

CAPCOM  GO!
http://nsccreative.com/projects/capcom-go/

National Space Centre, Exploration Drive, Leicester, LE4 5NS, UK

http://www.NSCcreative.com

[Sven Constable]

Updated version by Steve including normalized + meter scale version and a readme file:

www.imagefront.de/tmp/Lunar_LRO_LOLA_Global_LDEM_118m_Mar2014_forVFX.zip

[Steven Caron]

hey gang

that readme is a kinda long winded (if you know me, that is how i am) but its also for myself if/when i revisit this. i know for sure i am going to have to render the moon again as some point and i want to remember how and what i did.

if anyone wants to peer review it, i would appreciate it.

[kla...@bluewin.ch]

Thank you very much for making this available, Steven!

And thanks to you Sven for hosting these huge files for us!

Much appreciated.

CHeers, Klaus

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[Jeff McFall]

yes many thanks for doing this