Swim UV compounds wip

[Guillaume Laforge]

Hi,

I made some tests this (very rainy) weekend to see if it is possible to handle the UV Swim on a freezed texture projection (like it was asked in the Preserve UV thread this week).

It looks like it is not so complicate :). In short, you just need to compute the barycentric coordinates of the moved point and then apply those same coordinates in UV space. So we can apply an ICETree before moving the points to store the "Static UV pose" and then apply an other ICETree after the moved points (in the animation region for example) to do the UV compensations to avoid the UV distortions.

Here is a little video : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/UVSwim.swf

Cheers !

Guillaume Laforge

[Eric Thivierge]

Now that's some cool stuff!!!

--------------------------------------------
Eric Thivierge
Technical Director
http://www.ethivierge.com

[Rob Wuijster]

link's not working :`-(

Rob

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[Olivier Jeannel]

Smart.

Le 27/06/2011 00:45, Guillaume Laforge a �crit :

[Morten Bartholdy]

Very cool Guillaume! That will come in handy.

/MB

--
Best Regards

Morten Bartholdy
3D/VFX Supervisor

[Andy Moorer]

Cool!

By the way, I really appreciate how you've continued to reach out to the community, both before and after joining AD. Every time you post, I learn something or have good ideas sparked... so thank you!

Andy Moorer

[Francois Lord]

Indeed. And it's also cool that you spend your rainy weekends on it. ;-)

[Stephen Davidson]

re-size your window...it's a bug in the latest swf. re-sizing the window immediately fixes the playback.

Best Regards,
  Stephen P. Davidson 
       (954) 552-7956

Check My BLOG

My Website is GREEN, Is yours?

[Guillaume Laforge]

Hi Guys,

First, thanks for the kind words :).

Here is a video explaining better how it works : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/UVSwimCompounds.swf

I wanted to explain more but my cam recorder allow me only 5 minutes of videos :(, so it cuts my beautiful english accent at the end... Nevermind, I was not saying really important things ;).

I included the UV Swim compounds (and the menu/command) in my ICEModeling tool addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.xsiaddon

First, uninstall ICEModelingTools.0.2 or below before installing this new one. Also, remember to refresh your preset manager after installation (or just re-start Softimage).

I didn't do any serious test on the UV Swim tool, so feel free to give any feedback !

Cheers

Guillaume Laforge

[Scott Lange]

Anyone have any luck with STEP files and how best to get them into soft ?

thanks in advance....

[Thomas Volkmann]

You could try Rhino 3D. You can export 30 files with the Demo limitation.

[Leoung O'Young]

I have had success with Okino's Polytran

[Rob Wuijster]

Polytrans comes to mind.

Rob Wuijster
E ro...@casema.nl

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[Thomas Helzle]

Moment of Inspiration creates the best polymeshes I've seen so far and
is inexpensive (if you only need it once, the 30 day demo should do):
http://moi3d.com/
Website looks toyish, but it's a very very nice NURBS tool built by
the original developer of Rhino 3D...
Version 2 imports Step, IGES, SAT, eps/ai + it's native format is 3dm
the Rhino format (which is open source).
I usually export to obj and load that in XSI.

Check it out :-)

Cheers,

Thomas

[Williams, Wayne]

Hey Guillame,

Just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to make this tool. It’s been one of the small things Softimage has been missing for years that many Max guys scratched their heads about. The solution you have come up with is simple for the end user too, which is great.  Thanks again man!

-wayne

[Fabricio Chamon]

that's a very nice toolset! thanks for sharing Guilhaume

[Matt Lind]

Well…..doesn’t fully solve the problem.

 

Problems:

 

1) Edits made in the texture editor are not seen by the swimming ICETree.  This destroys the usefulness of the tool as it forces the user to choose between editing vertex positions or editing UV coordinates.  Can’t do both.  Related to previous argument how the modeling construction history is not flexible.

 

2)  Softimage crashes if you delete the swimming ICEtree in the modeling portion of the construction history before deleting the ICETree in the secondary shape section.

 

3) As pointed out in your video, UVs become disconnected when making edits.  The problem grows worse as dihedral angle of adjacent polygons increases.  Example: Use a default 8 x 8 polygon sphere and you’ll see larger errors in discontinuities.

 

For cases where the UVs are merged at a vertex prior to edit, they should remain merged after edit.  This can be accomplished with a simple averaging of the positions of the UVs after the edit is performed.  This may introduce some slight error in the overall result, but it will be consistent and preferred over disconnected UVs that have to be cleaned up all the time.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 7:13 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

 

Hi Guys,

[Guillaume Laforge]

> 3) As pointed out in your video, UVs become disconnected when making edits. 

I made some test merging polynodes together at the same UV position. It was easy to do (at least it looks like in my small, tiny, ridiculous tests).

I didn't include it in the shared compounds as it was not tested at all. 

No time now to continue this work, but maybe other technical guys will improve it, who knows.

For the crash, feel free to report it (I didn't noticed this problem).

Thanks for your feedback Matt. I hope you learn something (even ridiculously tinny) with my compounds btw ;).

Guillaume

[Guillaume Laforge]

1) Edits made in the texture editor are not seen by the swimming ICETree.

Not sure to understand. Using "Disable from here", I can move my UVs before the UVSwim and then re-apply the swim (classic Softimage workflow).

2)  Softimage crashes if you delete the swimming ICEtree in the modeling portion of the construction history before deleting the ICETree in the secondary shape section.

It never crash for me. Can you send a repro scene ?

3) As pointed out in your video, UVs become disconnected when making edits.

This is fixed. See this video : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/KeepingPolyNodesConnexion.swf

I won't be in front of Softimage today but I will update the addon with the lattest compounds soon.

G.

On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 10:58 PM, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com> wrote:

[Ciaran Moloney]

Thanks for sharing your efforts.

[Guillaume Laforge]

And here is the lattest addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon

It keeps polynodes connected this time (thanks to Matt for its feedback !)

[Matt Lind]

I’ve been reduced to an ‘it’.  ;-)

 

Explains a lot, really.

 

 

matt

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:03 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

 

And here is the lattest addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon

[Grahame Fuller]

Ah, language and gender - this is a fairly common mistake. English uses possessive pronouns based on the gender of the owner, but French uses possessive pronouns based on the gender of the thing that's owned. I usually make the reverse mistake when speaking French, as there's absolutely no logic to which things are masculine and which are feminine. And in German, it's worse...

gray

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lind
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 05:44 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Swim UV compounds wip

I've been reduced to an 'it'. ;-)

Explains a lot, really.

matt

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:03 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

And here is the lattest addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon

It keeps polynodes connected this time (thanks to Matt for its feedback !)

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Ciaran Moloney <moloney...@gmail.com<mailto:moloney...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks for sharing your efforts.

[Guillaume Laforge]

I'm sorry if I offend you Matt, it was not intend at all as English is not my first language.

Regards,

Guillaume Laforge

[Matt Lind]

I was joking.

 

 

Matt

[Matt Lind]

This addon works much better.

 

Response:

 

1) Not classic softimage workflow.  Preserve UVs is a very high iteration workflow for users.  They should never have to dig into the construction history to alternate between editing UVs in the texture editor and translating vertices in the viewports to modify the geometry.   The user should be able to jump back n’ forth between texture editor and viewports seamlessly making changes where needed.

 

If the user should have to dig into the construction history, they need an option to ‘mute’ an operator, not disable the entire stack.  Example:  When moving vertices on a mesh to change shape, ‘movecomponent’ operators are applied to construction history after each edit.  The user typically needs to mute an individual movecomponent operator to determine ‘what if’ scenarios when reaching the final tweaking stage of modeling. 

 

2) Doesn’t crash with newest addon (in simple tests).  However, I won’t rule out general instability in the general case.  I’ll keep my eye on it.

 

3) The swim compound is merging affected UVs when a vertex is translated on the mesh.  It should not change the state of UVs (merged or disconnected).  Whatever state (merged or disconnected) the UVs are in prior to edit is the state they should be in after the edit.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge

Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:03 PM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

 

And here is the lattest addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Learn Hungarian guys, it makes no difference between gender, and easier to spell. I have never heard a Hungarian asking the other Hungarian to spell his/her name :). We simply pronounce everything as it is written (with several exceptions)

 

Cheers

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Grahame Fuller
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 11:56 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Swim UV compounds wip

 

Ah, language and gender – this is a fairly common mistake. English uses possessive pronouns based on the gender of the owner, but French uses possessive pronouns based on the gender of the thing that’s owned. I usually make the reverse mistake when speaking French, as there’s absolutely no logic to which things are masculine and which are feminine. And in German, it’s worse…

 

gray

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Matt Lind
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 05:44 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Swim UV compounds wip

 

I’ve been reduced to an ‘it’.  ;-)

 

Explains a lot, really.

 

 

matt

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume Laforge
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:03 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

 

And here is the lattest addon : http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon

 

It keeps polynodes connected this time (thanks to Matt for its feedback !)

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Ciaran Moloney <moloney...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for sharing your efforts.

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Go for Italian then if you're after purity in phoneticism. We pronounce everything as it's written, with NO exceptions.
There's no phonetic key in Italian dictionaries :)

We do however have gender to nearly everything, but it's a helluva lot more trivially recognised, spelt and conjugated than it is in German, and we don't have a third gender like they do :p

Thanks for the compound btw Guillame, and for your continued efforts.

[Eugen Sares]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 03:38:25 +0200, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com>
wrote:

> This addon works much better.
>
> Response:
>
> 1) Not classic softimage workflow. Preserve UVs is a very high
> iteration workflow for users. They should never have to dig into the
> construction history to alternate between editing UVs in the texture
> editor and translating vertices in the viewports to modify the
> geometry. The user should be able to jump back n' forth between
> texture editor and viewports seamlessly making changes where needed.
>
> If the user should have to dig into the construction history, they need
> an option to 'mute' an operator, not disable the entire stack.
> Example: When moving vertices on a mesh to change shape,
> 'movecomponent' operators are applied to construction history after each
> edit. The user typically needs to mute an individual movecomponent
> operator to determine 'what if' scenarios when reaching the final
> tweaking stage of modeling.

Handbook on the Operator Stack:
http://download.autodesk.com/global/docs/softimage2012/en_us/userguide/files/basic_mod_OperatorStack.htm

A lot to bear in (an "artist's")mind... .ￜ/
Pretty hard to comprehend why some changes on the stack are possible and
others not.

Internal Clusters appear to hinder Operator resorting in many cases
(Clusters... my favourite topic... =p )
So the quirks with Clusters and Operator Stack evaluation seem to go hand
in hand.
Hopefully it's not too late to do some polishing/flexifying here,
especially where to place the next (Topology)Operator while keeping the
stack live.

A UI brushup suggestion, for a start:
Some Operator Stack related commands (Operator inputs etc.) reside in the
Edit Menu, others under Edit in the MCP (collapse etc.). Some are
mirrored, others not.
Best would be if all Op Stack related commands would reside in the Op
Stack Context Menu.

Best,
Eugen

>
> 2) Doesn't crash with newest addon (in simple tests). However, I won't
> rule out general instability in the general case. I'll keep my eye on
> it.
>
> 3) The swim compound is merging affected UVs when a vertex is translated
> on the mesh. It should not change the state of UVs (merged or
> disconnected). Whatever state (merged or disconnected) the UVs are in
> prior to edit is the state they should be in after the edit.
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
> From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com
> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Guillaume
> Laforge
> Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip
>
> And here is the lattest addon :
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5533643/Softimage/workshop/ICEModelingTools.0.3.1.xsiaddon
>
> It keeps polynodes connected this time (thanks to Matt for its feedback
> !)
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Ciaran Moloney
> <moloney...@gmail.com<mailto:moloney...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Thanks for sharing your efforts.
>
> On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:03 PM, Guillaume Laforge

> <guillaume....@gmail.com<mailto:guillaume....@gmail.com>>

[peter boeykens]

yes,

but what good is that purity in phoneticism if you didn’t get the spelling right in the first place  :

italian: cocodrilo - from the latin crocodylus / greek krokodeilos

 

btw do you pronounce the L in cocodrilo as an L , or is it more like a J ?

 

 

 

Sorry Szabolcs, but for "pronouncing as it is written" your first name isn't a very convincing example.

wiki says: sɒbolʧ (hope this comes across) - but that’s even more confusing. Im guessing in english you could write it as: saboltch?

 

 

 

I will make no claims for dutch. (or is it flemish?)

I don’t think I ever met anyone from another language who could pronounce my last name right the first time - and they always mess up the spelling too.

that includes half of the inhabitants of my country itself.

We've got plenty exceptions, illogical rules, weird spelling, inversion and splitting of verbs, mix and match from different languages - and those diminutives.. oh boy.

If we get into dialects, I guess we could consider our language to be naturally encrypted.

There's the typical example of a tv series from western flanders being subtitled for those further east.

 

 

From: Raffaele Fragapane

Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 10:25 AM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: Swim UV compounds wip

[Raffaele Fragapane]

Coccodrillo, two Ls, and purism in phoneticism means that there's never ambiguity between spelling and pronunciation.
Not one word in the entire Italian vocabulary has an exception, if you hear it you can spell it and viceversa :)
We don't have the Spanish LL sounding like the J-H aspired sound, double consonants have just the phonetic of the consonant more marked. We also have a third of the vowel sounds you have in English, which is one of the most crippling parts of English in general for foreigners (some sounds as a Latin you are practically deaf to).

AFAIK there's only three major languages in the world with those properties, I don't remember what the other two are though.

Bit OT though :)

--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

[Alan Fregtman]

To add more to the confusion, in Argentine Spanish the LL sound becomes SH so for example, "rain," which is "lluvia", in Spain Spanish sounds like "yoovia" but in Argentina it sounds like "shoovia".

So much for phoneticism... :p

[Adam Seeley]

Why isn't phonetic spelt the way it sounds?

Boom boom!

(Did Basil Brush ever go International?)

 

Although phonetic might be spelt the way it sounds in Hungarian or Italian, I'm curious to know now.

 

A.

 

Is it Friday yet?

 

	Adam Seeley Senior Animator, Commercials, UK T: +44 (0)20 7565 1000   E: adam....@primefocusworld.com@primefocusworld.com www.primefocusworld.com

 

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From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Alan Fregtman
Sent: 29 June 2011 15:43

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[peter boeykens]

ah yes spanish spelling - my bad

but I was pointing to the R that got moved between the Latin and the Italian version 

[Szabolcs Matefy]

Boom – bumm in Hungarian. And the double m is making pressure on the m at the end J

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Adam Seeley
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 5:54 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Swim UV compounds wip

 

Why isn't phonetic spelt the way it sounds?