Tim Crowson
Lead
CG Artist
Magnetic Dreams, Inc.
2525
Lebanon Pike, Bldg C, Suite 101, Nashville, TN 37214
Ph 615.885.6801 | Fax 615.889.4768 |
www.magneticdreams.com
tim.c...@magneticdreams.com
Confidentiality Notice: This email, including attachments, is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient(s). If you have received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Magnetic Dreams, Inc cannot accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Magnetic Dreams, Inc or one of its agents.
Point of clarification... I've been using Softimage for 5 years now, and Modo for 6, and am also on the beta for Modo. I can guarantee you that while Modo is NOT a full DCC now, it hasn't been 'a modeling app' for years now. It grew out of that a long time ago. Still, it's not what you want to switch to for full production on everything, but that point has been well-established. Not playing favorites here (I actually prefer to model in Soft!), I just think it's fair to properly assess a tool's capabilities, and Modo really has a problem, IMHO, of having this modeler-only mantra hanging over it.
And I'll echo what Raff said about having someone as high up as Brad interacting with artists. That's frankly just how he's always been. Soft is the tool for me any day, but I really do have a soft spot for what the Modo devs are doing, and wish them the best over the next couple of years. It's a long road, but they genuinely do seem to care.
-Tim
On 3/4/2014 9:52 PM, Sylvain Lebeau wrote:
hahahahahahah amazing Raff!!!!!
World is at war!!!!
The Foundry have a good respectfull background so far. But also got a good pathway to monopolicy. The dark side.Nuke, Katana, Mari, Modo ..... Can all become a centric pipeline toolset... It's a very interesting way to go at first sight.
But Modo misses lots of things for all of us now. It's a modeler that want to become a full dcc... this scares me. Building all those modules on top of the ground technology it was meant to be.... makes me ask me questions about the scalability of the app itself. Could a modeling app become's a full dcc app?...
I just hope they keep a good eye on how they do things and dont become what Autodesk is.... You know when things are growing out too fast.
At least, the foundry, dont kill the products they ingest so far. And they have my total trust for what is comming in the years to come. They just need time to adjust into interop of all of their tools. And push modo to the other level. This could become a killer.
sly
Sylvain Lebeau // SHED
V-P/Visual effects supervisor
1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM <http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM>
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Could you talk to Elon Musk, please? I could use a Tesla about now.
Matt
<Mail Attachment.png>
It works :) - and thanks for making the effort Raff!
Morten
Ha - me too :)
Morten
PGP-ID(RSA): 0xD6E0CE93
Fingerprint: 879F 572C FEE4 9DE5 53A8 3C1C 22A9 C8DE D6E0 CE93
Very nice of you to challenge Brad, Raff!
Would anyone know if this will entitle us to get v8 when it comes out?
Thanks
MAC
|
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of john clausing
Sent: 5 mars 2014 09:52
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list
i would love to buy this if only to mess with AD
MODO, as a public application, started with a modeling feature set, BUT, the frame work "Nexus" was made well before to be scalable since the idea all along was to create a full featured application.
The reason that they started with modeling from what I can tell, then rendering, was because they needed to A) start somewhere they had expertise in and B) saw a niche that was not being met well by many other applications- namely a very good modeling tool set that would quickly have an intuitive rendering/shading system that was affordable. Otherwise they were going to come out with one large tool, that took 12years to make, that was a "maya wannabe"- and would be understandably panned. Why spend 3K on something that looks like Maya when Maya already works?
Anyone who knows SI history gets how painful it can be to have a superior app bogged down by long dev time get over taken by something inferior because it fills the gap move quickly. AKA Maya vs. XSI during the SI dev gap.
So this was a marketing/biz move as much as a functional one AFAIK- make a product for the niche of designer and viz folks as well as those who want a better modeling solution working in games and film (this is way before graphite etc.) that was intuitive and easy to use. Grow in that market, make a name that way, grow funds for further dev, and then start to reveal additional features based on the Nexus frame work as the user base and needs grew.
The only thing I have to ask of you is to please stop referring to MODO as if it is Silo with some Max like bolting on happening. I'm not defending the software- it has short comings and is not going to replace SI in it's current state esp. if what you love most about SI came after the 7 cycle. It has a lot to love about it, but a fair share of things to be improved (thankfully they are), but it's not some ill conceived, mutant modeler on steroids either. I can see why you would think of it that way though, because from the outside that is what it has represented to many studios.
I see it like how SI is now thought of as ICE. Yes...it's probably one of the top features of SI, but it lead a lot of people (no thanks to AD marketing) to think that's all SI was good for. Those of us using it before the 7 cycle know that much of SI and the general work flow kicked some serious ass before that. SI had short comings, but day do day work flow for the average user was IMHO a joy. Many of those things are harder to market other than by word of mouth. So now SI=ICE which is a shame since years of dev show it's so much more than that.
If all SI is/was is ICE, then I think there would be fewer tears in this list and more people just saying F*it I'm going to use Houdini.
So yes, to those outside for what ever reason MODO is "that modeling app thingy", but just like SI is more than ICE, MODO is more than modeling, even if that is what many people still find it does best.
They biggest part I'd have to say that MODO and SI share in common is a desire to have the experience of using the software day to day be a good one- the over all work flow, vs. just slamming in features and bolting them on. I'm not saying this is a 1:1 match up, but it feels more so than say comparing Maya to SI, or even Houdini to SI.
Octavian - a couple of things:
MODO, as a public application, started with a modeling feature set, BUT, the frame work "Nexus" was made well before to be scalable since the idea all along was to create a full featured application.
The reason that they started with modeling from what I can tell, then rendering, was because they needed to A) start somewhere they had expertise in and B) saw a niche that was not being met well by many other applications- namely a very good modeling tool set that would quickly have an intuitive rendering/shading system that was affordable. Otherwise they were going to come out with one large tool, that took 12years to make, that was a "maya wannabe"- and would be understandably panned. Why spend 3K on something that looks like Maya when Maya already works?
Anyone who knows SI history gets how painful it can be to have a superior app bogged down by long dev time get over taken by something inferior because it fills the gap move quickly. AKA Maya vs. XSI during the SI dev gap.
So this was a marketing/biz move as much as a functional one AFAIK- make a product for the niche of designer and viz folks as well as those who want a better modeling solution working in games and film (this is way before graphite etc.) that was intuitive and easy to use. Grow in that market, make a name that way, grow funds for further dev, and then start to reveal additional features based on the Nexus frame work as the user base and needs grew.
The only thing I have to ask of you is to please stop referring to MODO as if it is Silo with some Max like bolting on happening. I'm not defending the software- it has short comings and is not going to replace SI in it's current state esp. if what you love most about SI came after the 7 cycle. It has a lot to love about it, but a fair share of things to be improved (thankfully they are), but it's not some ill conceived, mutant modeler on steroids either. I can see why you would think of it that way though, because from the outside that is what it has represented to many studios.
I see it like how SI is now thought of as ICE. Yes...it's probably one of the top features of SI, but it lead a lot of people (no thanks to AD marketing) to think that's all SI was good for. Those of us using it before the 7 cycle know that much of SI and the general work flow kicked some serious ass before that. SI had short comings, but day do day work flow for the average user was IMHO a joy. Many of those things are harder to market other than by word of mouth. So now SI=ICE which is a shame since years of dev show it's so much more than that.
If all SI is/was is ICE, then I think there would be fewer tears in this list and more people just saying F*it I'm going to use Houdini.
So yes, to those outside for what ever reason MODO is "that modeling app thingy", but just like SI is more than ICE, MODO is more than modeling, even if that is what many people still find it does best.
They biggest part I'd have to say that MODO and SI share in common is a desire to have the experience of using the software day to day be a good one- the over all work flow, vs. just slamming in features and bolting them on. I'm not saying this is a 1:1 match up, but it feels more so than say comparing Maya to SI, or even Houdini to SI.
Brad Peebler is a good guy and that’s a very generous offer they have, but I just don’t feel that Modo is a professional quality product. It’s got a lot of improvements over Lightwave, but again, it has all the same weaknesses and they have made all the same mistakes they made when they developed lightwave. It’s still a modeling tool that has had animation tacked on, they did it better this time than with lightwave and it’s all one program, but I’m just not impressed with how it all came together. I still feel the interface is as complete mess, which was one of the biggest problems with Lightwave. Even at 50% off, I just don’t feel Modo would be worth the price. Softimage has spoiled me with its interface and workflow and it is going to be very difficult for me to find something to replace it with.
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Raffaele Fragapane
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 7:51 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list
Personally I find the offer monetary value itself barely relevant.
Let me explain: It's more the fact a person as highly positioned as him keeps in touch with people who have hardly anything to do with his products and is wiling to jump a whole chain of decision makers and bureaucracy to make something happen in a few hours that matters to me.
If it saves you a few hundred bucks that's a bonus for sure :)
BTW apparently it's the community store or something like that that should be used at:
Some other store locations might not accept coupons.
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 2:45 PM, nick name <creator...@gmail.com> wrote:
You'd never see such a gesture from Adsk. On the other hand I think it's a bit too early for this offer for most Softimage users to make a jump in one direction or another. Not saying that there won't be a few that will want to score this opportunity, so... yeah, it's a lot better than nothing.
Tim Crowson
Lead
CG Artist
Magnetic Dreams, Inc.
2525
Lebanon Pike, Bldg C, Suite 101, Nashville, TN 37214
Ph 615.885.6801 | Fax 615.889.4768 |
www.magneticdreams.com
tim.c...@magneticdreams.com
Confidentiality Notice: This email, including attachments, is confidential and should not be used by anyone who is not the original intended recipient(s). If you have received this e-mail in error please inform the sender and delete it from your mailbox or any other storage mechanism. Magnetic Dreams, Inc cannot accept liability for any statements made which are clearly the sender's own and not expressly made on behalf of Magnetic Dreams, Inc or one of its agents.
Yes there is. Not much of a secret anymore.... :-)
-Tim
On 3/6/2014 11:55 AM, Paul Griswold wrote:
Oh don't get me started on the history of Modo - it'll totally derail things.I'm an old-time Lightwave beta tester from the early-mid 1990's. Brad Peebler was my contact at NewTek back in those days. There's a whole drama around how Modo came about.ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:52 PM, Tim Crowson <tim.c...@magneticdreams.com> wrote:
Mmm.... Paul I think you're getting close to the genetic fallacy with that. Also I'm not sure Modo was ever intended to replace Lightwave. Maybe, just not sure...?
I think your point about opening things up the way ICE does is an important distinction to make though. ICE is a platform, not just series of tools to meet specific needs. As such, it shares a room with very few systems (Houdini, Maya internally as I understand...). But the vast majority of 3D applications out there, including Softimage (minus ICE), are built to address specific, known production needs. I don't think it's fair to criticize the choice to design an application this way, simply because such a design choice indicates that the developer is trying to meet artists' known needs. Certainly there's absolutely no denying the power and flexibility of a platform like ICE/Houdini, which essentially opens up a layer between the raw API and the immediate toolset exposed to the user, allowing them to create new tools via node-based programming. But if that's all we had, I doubt many of us could get our work done on time. Most of us still need traditional, focused toolsets as well.
As for Modo, people are going to have to take the responsibility of doing their own due diligence in evaluating it. There's no definite answer to 'can it replace Softimage?' That's silly. It just depends on what your needs are, like everything else. In its current state and because of our pipeline here at Magnetic, I use Modo primarily as a swiss army knife. Just yesterday I was able to load in an illustrator file with complicated curves into Modo, set them to be renderable, then bake that geometry cache into something I could export (rims all around these intricate designs on a stained glass window). Could not have done that nearly as easily otherwise, not by a mile. Took me 30s in Modo. Stuff like that is a stress relief for me!
Anyway, I would LOVE to see a truly procedural platform like ICE come to Modo.. Who wouldn't?
-Tim
On 3/6/2014 11:25 AM, Paul Griswold wrote:
Well Modo is essentially Lightwave Part 2, since it came from the original programmers of Lightwave and at one point was supposed to replace Lightwave. I feel like they tend to want to build specific tools to fill specific needs instead of opening things up the way ICE does.ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Sebastien Sterling <sebastien...@gmail.com> wrote:
Lightwave mentality Paul ?
On 6 March 2014 17:07, Paul Griswold <pgri...@fusiondigitalproductions.com> wrote:
I'd love to sit in on a webinar. Modo scares me a little bit in that they still seem to have the LW mentality there.-Paulᐧ
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Chris Johnson <chr...@topixfx.com> wrote:
I'm in for the Webinar. and what is the contact information again to e-mail him directly?
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:50 AM, Tim Crowson <tim.c...@magneticdreams.com> wrote:
More contact from Brad off-list..... He says the following...
I've been thinking about how this all went down and I'm feeling a bit sad about it. I have a new idea. People should not feel like they have to rush to make a move. They don't! Soft is still awesome and will be for years to come. Rather than offering another promo code what I would like to do is offer an extended trial of MODO for anyone who wants it. They can contact me directly and I'll get them setup with a 60 day license. My offer still stands that anyone who talks to me directly will also find that I am a man of my word (with regard to the code). Wink wink. I can't publicly extend that offer but I will stand by it for anyone on that list.I would also be willing to set up an invitation only webinar for the list so we can talk openly under a "gentlemens NDA". I'd love to clear up some of the confusion about MODO being built as a modeler only and share some short, mid and long term goals for the product. Finally, I'm getting quite a bit of email this week so if someone doesn't hear from me straight away please feel free to send your email again. I won't be offended to get spammed. :)
If you guys are interested in taking him up in his webinar idea, please voice it! I'm pretty sure he can read these messages on the Google group, but if not I'm happy to convey your corporate response.
-Tim
--
--
In for that webinar, too...------ Originalnachricht ------Von: "Tim Crowson" <tim.c...@magneticdreams.com>Gesendet: 06.03.2014 19:01:30Betreff: Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list - A new word from Brad Peebler
Yes there is. Not much of a secret anymore.... :-)
-TimOn 3/6/2014 11:55 AM, Paul Griswold wrote:
Oh don't get me started on the history of Modo - it'll totally derail things.I'm an old-time Lightwave beta tester from the early-mid 1990's. Brad Peebler was my contact at NewTek back in those days. There's a whole drama around how Modo came about.ᐧ
Mmm.... Paul I think you're getting close to the genetic fallacy with that. Also I'm not sure Modo was ever intended to replace Lightwave. Maybe, just not sure...?
I think your point about opening things up the way ICE does is an important distinction to make though. ICE is a platform, not just series of tools to meet specific needs. As such, it shares a room with very few systems (Houdini, Maya internally as I understand...). But the vast majority of 3D applications out there, including Softimage (minus ICE), are built to address specific, known production needs. I don't think it's fair to criticize the choice to design an application this way, simply because such a design choice indicates that the developer is trying to meet artists' known needs. Certainly there's absolutely no denying the power and flexibility of a platform like ICE/Houdini, which essentially opens up a layer between the raw API and the immediate toolset exposed to the user, allowing them to create new tools via node-based programming. But if that'sall we had, I doubt many of us could get our work done on time. Most of us still need traditional, focused toolsets as well.
--
-- Dan Pejril Upbeat Unique Entertainment www.UpbeatUnique.com
More contact from Brad off-list.... He says the following...
I've been thinking about how this all went down and I'm feeling a bit sad about it. I have a new idea. People should not feel like they have to rush to make a move. They don't! Soft is still awesome and will be for years to come. Rather than offering another promo code what I would like to do is offer an extended trial of MODO for anyone who wants it. They can contact me directly and I'll get them setup with a 60 day license. My offer still stands that anyone who talks to me directly will also find that I am a man of my word (with regard to the code). Wink wink. I can't publicly extend that offer but I will stand by it for anyone on that list.
I would also be willing to set up an invitation only webinar for the list so we can talk openly under a "gentlemens NDA". I'd love to clear up some of the confusion about MODO being built as a modeler only and share some short, mid and long term goals for the product. Finally, I'm getting quite a bit of email this week so if someone doesn't hear from me straight away please feel free to send your email again. I won't be offended to get spammed. :)
Greg Maguire | Inlifesize
Mobile: +44 7512 361462 | Phone: +44 2890 204739
gr...@inlifesize.com | www.inlifesize.com