Please explain Maya pivot points to a Softimage thinker

[Byron Nash]

I'm trying to get some objects zero-ed out in Maya but keep running into what I assume is a paradigm difference between how Maya and Soft handle center points and transforms. In Soft, I can move the center/pivot and it will change the transform values. So, I can reset the center to be in the middle of the geometry and then zero the position to get the object to snap back to the world center or parent center. In Maya, moving the pivot does not seem to change the transform of the object when you move the pivot. So I can't then zero the values and get the objects to return to zero. Sometimes, the object and it's center are clearly NOT at zero but that's what the values say. There are some Local Space/World space values in the attribute editor, but I can't figure out how to get things reset properly. 

Any help from a Softimage perspective is appreciated. 

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES]]

Byron,

 

You’re interpreting this correctly. I’m guessing that you’ve moved the pivot for a particular rotation behavior now you want that pivot to zero to another object. But when you zero object translation its not moving the pivot (and object) to align the pivot to its parent. This is normal. Maya pivots do not have a 1:1 relationship to the way Softimage works.

 

Pivots in Maya are typically used for scale and rotation adjustment. Unlike Soft which also includes position. However, it’s just easier to “ignore” the pivot altogether and create a hierarchy from nulls. Use this hierarchy to manage your articulations and respective locations. For example:

 

Make a new null for every position/pivot offset you need. Leave the actual pivots alone. Rely on them to insure zero relativity.

 Null_Position

                Null_position_offset

                                Null_Rotate

                                                Null_whatever

                                                                Null_geometry

 

 

Reposition the relevant nulls to accomplish the articulations that you require. Place the geometry at the end of the cascade. If you need to make adjustment in the middle, remove everything after the node you want to adjust, change its translation, and then put the rest of the hierarchy back under that node. Unparent becomes your friend. Working from a null hierarchy like this gives you more control, but is more time consuming and structure intensive. It is also more reliable upon export. But you will find it easier to work with.

 

Softimage spoiled us.

 

--

Joey Ponthieux

LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)

Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)

NASA Langley Research Center

__________________________________________________

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

[Mirko Jankovic]

Actually SI got it right.. maya messed up ton of things but pushed them as a norm ;)

[Francois Lord]

Does this help?
https://youtu.be/Z8zVjLoHWjk?list=PLP5KnnScX57byOldVy9rQlBRARrX6gy4b

[Sebastien Sterling]

This is actually quite sickening to watch, but cheers Francois, at least we know what we are dealing with.

[Gerbrand Nel]

Agreed...
Rather watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmtzQCSh6xk
It makes more sense.
G

[Pierre Schiller]

passed on as "standard" modo errs and so does blender. So either just copycat instead of rationalize it like softimage.

"move CENTER to vertices" <- does it gets much clearer than that?

Also, the setup idea based on dummies hierarchies, was the solution since 3dsmax DOS was out. So why implement

it as "standard".  Modo and blender works in the same way for everything. Yeah...I want to see what good does a "pivot" does

on an IK chain...

mumbling...

--

Portfolio 2013

Cinema & TV production

Video Reel

[Olivier Jeannel]

LOL !

[Byron Nash]

Thanks for clearing that up. At least I know I'm not doing it wrong. That youtube clip has "the workaround" demonstrated. It's clear that this is just ingrained in the Maya users workflow. I asked a few around me how to do what I needed to do and everyone just looked confused.

Needs to have a "make it work like Softimage" mode.

One new things I saw in that tutorial was the Snap Together Tool. That's pretty cool. Will definitely be using that.

[Christian Keller]

That explains a lot ;)

--

Christian Keller 

Visual effects|direction

m  +49 179 69 36 248

Chri...@me.com

Vimeo.com/channels/96149

[Martin Yara]

Softimage has a pivot and a center.

Maya doesn't have a center concept, only pivot.

Well, it actually has 2 pivots: rotation + translation and scale and these pivot positions can be found in your Attribute Editor.

These pivots don't have orientation values, only position. Curiously Softimage pivot have a rotation value in the menu, it just doesn't do anything.

You can move them independiently from this attribute editor, or simultaneously with Ins or D in the viewport just like you do it in Softimage.

Maya's pivot, just like Softimage pivot can't be rotated.

Softimage's pivot follows the center rotation but Maya doesn't have a center to be rotated.

What you do with Ins and the light blue icon is change the Translate tool axis to a custom axis and rotate it.

Something like the Reference Transform option in Softimage.

The object properties aren't changed at all.

You do have a "Rotate axis" in the Attribute Editor that can be used with a negative rotation value to make it something like a Neutral Pose only for rotation, so you have a different orientation only for rotation. I'm not sure how useful is this, I prefer not to mess with Rotate Axis.

Martin

[Cesar Saez]

It's super useful!

There are plenty of times on rigging where you need to keep position fcurves orthogonal to the world/origin (in a way that forward or up is defined by an unique fcurve) while the neutral/bind pose is non-orthogonal (typically IK limbs... but the concept is applicable to everything).

Regards,

Cesar

[Gerbrand Nel]

When I'm forced to work in maya, I make a point to watch that video at least once every morning, and twice after every crash.. it keeps me insane ;)  which is perfect for working in maya
G

[Pierre Schiller]

HHAHAHHAHAHA. "twice after every crash", it "crashed me" hahhahhahahha.

[Ed Schiffer]

isn't there a plugin to facilitate all these transforms already?!?

--

www.edschiffer.com

[Ognjen Vukovic]

No, but i am sure somebody is working on a script as we speak.

[Oliver Weingarten]

OMG,  really? I just watched that video and saw that "workaround" is officially shown without any shame?? Around 10 steps to change the "center", really??  It leaves me speechless and angry again, that this "industry standard" survived and Soft got doomed. A shame....

[Ed Manning]

In Maya-land, 10 clicks or so to get something done *is* "simple."

[Mirko Jankovic]

with Maya you workaround

with Softimage you work

thanks again AD for your workarounds....

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

You might be thinking of Dirk Bialluch’s Pivot Toolbox?

 

http://www.lightstorm3d.com/ls3d/?page_id=192

 

 

--

Joey Ponthieux

LaRC Information Technology Enhanced Services (LITES II)

Science Systems and Applications Inc. (SSAI)

NASA Langley Research Center

__________________________________________________

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

 

[Martin]

what exactly do you want ? I know a few pivot scripts including one of my first Mel scripts 😅
Martin

Sent from my iPhone

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

OK. So I could provide you with a more thorough explanation of the Maya pivot concept if you are interested. However, since Maya 2016 offers a new Bake Pivot Orientation command, after investigating this thing it looks like a good template for what ails the SI folks, regarding Maya pivots.

 

Drag and drop the following lines into a shelf of your choice to make a new MEL command.

 

 

ctxEditMode;

float $manipos[] = `manipMoveContext -q -position Move`;

FreezeTransformations;

ResetTransformations;

move -a -pcp -pgp -ws $manipos[0] $manipos[1] $manipos[2];

ctxEditMode;

 

 

Now, make a new object and hit the insert key to edit the pivot.

 

Move the pivot using the Move Tool.

 

Execute the above MEL command from your shelf.

 

 

 

If you are an SI person I’m confident that this is what you want Maya to do regarding pivots.

 

There are a couple CAVEATS with this really crude hack.

1.       It only works properly with the Move tool

2.       You must be in Edit Pivot mode

3.       If you execute it with Edit Pivot Mode off it will send the pivot to world center.

4.       It is not persistent like SI. You have to execute the MEL script every time you want to BAKE the “position” relative to the pivot.

5.       It will work with objects that are children of other objects.

6.       It generates input history that you will likely want to delete.

7.       If you use this you use at your own risk!

 

The point I’m trying to make is that what SI users want is doable with the current Maya interface. It’s just counter to the longstanding Maya workflow which was based upon TAV. But the structure appears to exist in Maya 2016 to permit it to function as SI users would like but with minimal extra effort.

 

Enjoy.

 

 

 

Hey Autodesk, if you are reading this, it would be nice if you could integrate pivot position baking into the new pivot orientation baking or at least duplicate the process for pivot position similar to what I’ve prototyped here. I took the core commands straight out of bakeCustomToolPivot.mel.  It could be modified to accommodate what the SI users want. I’d try to do it, and I think there are others here who most certainly could figure this out, but I think it would be far more reliable as an AD supported core feature. And one other thing, the Edit Pivot context needs to remain on. Currently Bake Pivot Orientation takes it out of pivot editing when executed, that’s an undesirable feature if I want to keep tweaking the pivot and its position. It’s already bad enough that I would have to repeat the position bake, but having to do that and reenter pivot edit as well is just more effort than necessary. Besides, I turned the pivot editing on, I want to decide when I turn it off.

 

--

Joey Ponthieux

 

__________________________________________________

Opinions stated here-in are strictly those of the author and do not

represent the opinions of NASA or any other party.

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Mirko Jankovic
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 8:11 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Please explain Maya pivot points to a Softimage thinker

 

with Maya you workaround