moving cached object

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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 12:15:04 PM2/7/13
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Whats the best method/system for caching geometry so that the cached geo can be moved or scaled in space?  I'm using pc2 for a complex rig setup and it works great but I can't scale or move the cached object...it just snaps back to where its been cached.

Kris

Leonard Koch

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Feb 7, 2013, 12:19:17 PM2/7/13
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You can just use ice for that. 
It is dependant upon what the scene looks like, but there is almost always a way to do it in ice.
If you can share a bit of insight into your scene I could probably point you in the right direction.

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 12:24:14 PM2/7/13
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Its a character rig...lots of body/clothing geometry and a face robot setup as well.  We select all geo and cache using pc2.  We then apply the cache to a simple model null that has all geo under it.  It works great but when we move or scale the model null around...the cached geo appears to move...but when you move the time slider, it goes back to its cached location.  I assume because the cache is based on global coordinates, not local.

Kris

Matt Morris

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Feb 7, 2013, 12:27:16 PM2/7/13
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I have had a few problems with this and ended up using point oven mdd instead. Be interested to know if there's an easier way to do it!


On Thursday, 7 February 2013, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whats the best method/system for caching geometry so that the cached geo can be moved or scaled in space?  I'm using pc2 for a complex rig setup and it works great but I can't scale or move the cached object...it just snaps back to where its been cached.
> Kris

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Sandy Sutherland

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Feb 7, 2013, 12:38:14 PM2/7/13
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You could probably use an ice tree on top of the cache reader = get pointposition -> add -> set point position - take the global pos of a null into the other add port and presto - easy move.

Scale - I can send you a compound I made up to do scale around a null or position.

I am guessing this would work, but I have always used MDDs works 100% moving and scaling on top of the PO reader.

S.

                                                              
Sandy Sutherland | Technical Supervisor

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Matt Morris [mat...@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 February 2013 19:27
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: moving cached object

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:00:49 PM2/7/13
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Ugh...wow, doesn't seem easy.  Guess we should try the old point oven way.

Alok Gandhi

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:01:09 PM2/7/13
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Take a null to manipulate. Put it at the center of the geo. In a tree, get kine global null, get kine global geo. Mutliply kine global of geo by kine global of null (remember the order is important). Set kine global of geo. You are done. No you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo.

Alok
Lead TD Modusfx.
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:16:52 PM2/7/13
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Interesting.  So this tree would have to be in each piece of geo right?  I guess it would also have to be above the mixer op of the cache which is in the modeling stack right?

Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:36:53 PM2/7/13
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The tree can be anywhere. It can be an independent tree as well. You can also pull all of the geo in one single tree if you want and manipulate them by a single. In principal what you are changing is coordinate space, from global to the specified null. You do not have to worry about the stacks for this. In fact you wont see any changes in the stack info.

Cheers !

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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:39:06 PM2/7/13
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And a little typo fix for my earlier post :

**Now you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo.


On 07/02/2013 1:16 PM, Kris Rivel wrote:

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 1:50:26 PM2/7/13
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Ah ok cool...let me try that...thanks!
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:08:43 PM2/7/13
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Sorry Alok....can't quite figure out how to set that up right.  I'm either getting an error in the tree or the geo is scaled to zero.  Can you better explain a sample setup?  I have several geo objects under a model null.
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Manny Papamanos

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:13:17 PM2/7/13
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Hi. You can do it in ICE as suggested, also...

I did a quick test where I applied Pc2 cache to a blank Rock Falcon head.
All I had to do was to create a single shape to edit the points.
So:
In the shape manager, select all "points" and scale/move them for the shape.

Upon playback, the Pc2 was well referenced with the shape edits.

This solution 'may' be faster.



Manny Papamanos
Autodesk 3D Graphics Specialist : Softimage | MotionBuilder | Mudbox





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From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Kris Rivel
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 1:50 PM
To: Softimage List
Subject: Re: moving cached object

Ah ok cool...let me try that...thanks!

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Alok <alok....@modusfx.com<mailto:alok....@modusfx.com>> wrote:
And a little typo fix for my earlier post :

**Now you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo.


[cid:image0...@01CE053D.1C09A0A0]
On 07/02/2013 1:16 PM, Kris Rivel wrote:
Interesting. So this tree would have to be in each piece of geo right? I guess it would also have to be above the mixer op of the cache which is in the modeling stack right?

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Alok Gandhi <alok.ga...@gmail.com<mailto:alok.ga...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Take a null to manipulate. Put it at the center of the geo. In a tree, get kine global null, get kine global geo. Mutliply kine global of geo by kine global of null (remember the order is important). Set kine global of geo. You are done. No you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo.

Alok
Lead TD Modusfx.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Matt Morris <mat...@gmail.com<mailto:mat...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I have had a few problems with this and ended up using point oven mdd instead. Be interested to know if there's an easier way to do it!


On Thursday, 7 February 2013, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com<mailto:kris...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Whats the best method/system for caching geometry so that the cached geo can be moved or scaled in space? I'm using pc2 for a complex rig setup and it works great but I can't scale or move the cached object...it just snaps back to where its been cached.
> Kris
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www.matinai.com<http://www.matinai.com>


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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:17:11 PM2/7/13
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There you go:


Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:20:32 PM2/7/13
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Ah ok sweet..thanks.  What object does this tree sit on?  The manipulator null, the hierarchy null or the group geo?
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Leonard Koch

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:25:34 PM2/7/13
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That is irrelevant. I like to put it on the null I use for the scaling.
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:26:52 PM2/7/13
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Also..I can't plug the result of multiply into the set data.  Why's that?
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Leonard Koch

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:31:04 PM2/7/13
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I don't know. If everything was done as shown in Alok's picture, then everything is object context and there shouldn't be any context miss-matches.
Make sure that you are exactly replicating Alok's tree. What does it say when you hold the pipe over the set data port? Is there a content missmatch or does it simply turn red upon plugging in? If it just turns red, you should try plugging the Out Name of the top get data node into the In Name of the Set Data node.
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Vincent Ullmann

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:31:47 PM2/7/13
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What Color does the Input-Port have?

If its Black, plug in the "Out_Name -> In_Name" first.

If its light-green or something else, check the Refrence of the Set-Data

Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:34:29 PM2/7/13
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As Leonard said - it is irrelevant, you can put the tree on any object. Personally I would also put it on the manipulator null. As far as the set data node is concerned, please check whether its kinematics are already driven by some some operator / ice tree etc. For this to work, you the kinematics of your geo needs to be completely free.

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:37:39 PM2/7/13
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Its a red node upon import.  I plug in the result of the multiply first which connects...still red.  But when I plug in the out name of the get .kine.global, my multiply and its connections go black.

Sandy Sutherland

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:37:21 PM2/7/13
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are you setting kine.global on the set data - that is not shown in the tree below.


                                                              
Sandy Sutherland | Technical Supervisor

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Kris Rivel [kris...@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 February 2013 21:26

To: Softimage List
Subject: Re: moving cached object

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:43:42 PM2/7/13
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Lol, feel like I'm going crazy.  If I set the set data to kine.global, it doesn't allow me to connect the multiply anymore.  I always feel like these get and set nodes require a bit of vodoo magic to get what you want out of them.  Maybe just me.
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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 2:44:50 PM2/7/13
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The set data is putting value on the kine.global. Everything works fine for me. Please find the attached scene to have a look. Do not forget to change the path of the pc2 file in the mixer. I have already a .pc2 file in the zip.
sample.7z

Manny Papamanos

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:04:34 PM2/7/13
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This worked for me:

The Pc2 is preserved;)



Manny Papamanos
Autodesk 3D Graphics Specialist : Softimage | MotionBuilder | Mudbox


Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 2:44 PM
To: Softimage List
Subject: Re: moving cached object

Lol, feel like I'm going crazy. If I set the set data to kine.global, it doesn't allow me to connect the multiply anymore. I always feel like these get and set nodes require a bit of vodoo magic to get what you want out of them. Maybe just me.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Sandy Sutherland <Sandy.Su...@triggerfish.co.za<mailto:Sandy.Su...@triggerfish.co.za>> wrote:
are you setting kine.global on the set data - that is not shown in the tree below.



Sandy Sutherland<mailto:sandy.su...@triggerfish.co.za> | Technical Supervisor
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

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From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Kris Rivel [kris...@gmail.com]
Sent: 07 February 2013 21:26<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

To: Softimage List
Subject: Re: moving cached object<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Also..I can't plug the result of multiply into the set data. Why's that?<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Ah ok sweet..thanks. What object does this tree sit on? The manipulator null, the hierarchy null or the group geo?<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Alok <alok....@modusfx.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
There you go:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
[cid:image0...@01CE0544.6EB7B010]
[cid:image0...@01CE0544.6EB7B010]<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On 07/02/2013 2:08 PM, Kris Rivel wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Sorry Alok....can't quite figure out how to set that up right. I'm either getting an error in the tree or the geo is scaled to zero. Can you better explain a sample setup? I have several geo objects under a model null.<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:50 PM, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Ah ok cool...let me try that...thanks!<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Alok <alok....@modusfx.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
And a little typo fix for my earlier post :

**Now you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo. <http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

[cid:image0...@01CE0544.6EB7B010]<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On 07/02/2013 1:16 PM, Kris Rivel wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Interesting. So this tree would have to be in each piece of geo right? I guess it would also have to be above the mixer op of the cache which is in the modeling stack right?<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Alok Gandhi <alok.ga...@gmail.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Take a null to manipulate. Put it at the center of the geo. In a tree, get kine global null, get kine global geo. Mutliply kine global of geo by kine global of null (remember the order is important). Set kine global of geo. You are done. No you can scale or move the null to manipulate the geo.

Alok <http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
Lead TD Modusfx. <http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Matt Morris <mat...@gmail.com> wrote:<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
I have had a few problems with this and ended up using point oven mdd instead. Be interested to know if there's an easier way to do it! <http://triggerfish.co.za/en>


On Thursday, 7 February 2013, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Whats the best method/system for caching geometry so that the cached geo can be moved or scaled in space? I'm using pc2 for a complex rig setup and it works great but I can't scale or move the cached object...it just snaps back to where its been cached.
> Kris<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
--
www.matinai.com<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
--
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5587 - Release Date: 02/07/13<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>
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<http://triggerfish.co.za/en>

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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:05:37 PM2/7/13
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Awesome...now I see the problem...its not working on a group of geometry.  If I pick one piece of geo it works...but if I pick a group..it does not.
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Leonard Koch

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:11:00 PM2/7/13
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Yeah, group properties can not be set in ice, only read as arrays.
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:15:55 PM2/7/13
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Bummer!  So I guess I have to have a tree for each piece of geo?  That would probably kill this approach since I have quite a few objects.  Shame since it does work nicely on one piece.  I tried the shape manager approach..no go there.  Some of the geo does not have frozen transforms so they scale strangely...not to mention its slow as hell since the geo is very heavy.

I tried dragging the mixer for the cache into the shape stack thinking I could plot the shape but that doesn't work either.  What other options are there?  Is point oven still supported?  Haven't used it in years.  I heard that may work?

Kris
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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:24:13 PM2/7/13
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Yep point oven works as before, no big changes there.

But even for this approach, you do not have to have a separate tree for each piece of geo. What I suggest is to make a quick script to select all the geo and the null on a single go and the script will create a single tree with all geo inside it. The choice of having one or different manipulator nulls depends on you.

If you want I can quickly make a script as a demo for you at the end day today, which will be about three hours from now.

Cheers !

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:29:16 PM2/7/13
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That'd be awesome so feel free if you want.  I'm sure others would benefit from it as well.  No sweat if you can't.

Kris
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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 3:32:46 PM2/7/13
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You got it !

Leo Quensel

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Feb 7, 2013, 4:24:14 PM2/7/13
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I hope setting properties on group members via ICE has been at least requested a million
times in the beta. I can hardly think of a feature I want more at the moment.

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 4:40:25 PM2/7/13
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I 1000% agree...that would be great!

David Barosin

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Feb 7, 2013, 5:13:43 PM2/7/13
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quick and dirty idea but could you just throw a 1x1 lattice on all the geo at the secondary shape modeling stack.  Then put a cluster with center constraint on the lattice. 

Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 5:37:18 PM2/7/13
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Crap...(smacks self on forehead).  That was pure genius Dave...doh...thanks.  That works perfectly!

Kris

Orlando Esponda

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Feb 7, 2013, 5:59:08 PM2/7/13
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I'm late on this one Kris, but can you use Kais Wolter's KP_PointCacheTools ?

I just tested it and works with the null trick: model > globalSRT_null > meshes       Then scale, rotate, move the null and every object inherits the null transformations, so I guess Kai's operator applies the cache in local space while the built-in operator applies it in global space.

Orlando.
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Alok

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Feb 7, 2013, 6:01:50 PM2/7/13
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Great Idea David, now I do not have to write the script anymore !



David Barosin

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Feb 7, 2013, 7:34:40 PM2/7/13
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Glad to help ;)
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Kris Rivel

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Feb 7, 2013, 9:35:20 PM2/7/13
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Yeah, thanks again.  I get so caught up in advanced techniques, ICE, etc. that I forget the old school stuff.  But I guess it would be cool for some sort of "plot local" option or something when baking out with the native caching so that you can move things around.
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Rob Chapman

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Feb 7, 2013, 9:53:54 PM2/7/13
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what - exactly like the kp_pointcache tool that Kai did over 5 years
ago..? :) its still better than the built in version for PC2 format.
his has a global / local toggle, was very simple to use and had lists
of objects to store and retrieve long before the cache manager
implemented this.

Surprised you are not using as it most definitely qualifies as 'old
school' now as the pc2 format suffers from its inability to store
changing point amounts per frame or recognise other data than point
position :D



On 8 February 2013 02:35, Kris Rivel <kris...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But I guess it would be cool for some sort of "plot local" option or something when baking out with the native caching so that you can move things around..
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