Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

[Len Krenzler]

I'm hoping the SI development team will consider listening to a relatively new user, after all, new users are needed to grow the user base :)

Although I really love SI in general It seems to me that modeling is a rather neglected area in SI.  The more I use it the more I dislike it.  This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals.  I'm hoping it will get some attention in the near future. 

As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started.  I still use other programs for some simple things which is disappointing.  Here's a few very basic  examples:

Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I want it? Really?  I couldn't believe that.  Take a look at LW or Modo on how to do this correctly.

Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform and...what?  Can't do that?  Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to convert to a curve?  Why?  No translate/scale/rotate?  What?  Extrude has it, why not revolve?  Inconsistency like this is frustrating.

Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current ones in place to make a solid object.  I can extrude OR duplicate polys but not both?  Seriously?!  This is pretty basic.

Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a plugin?

Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!  I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?  This is so unlike the rest of SI.

These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages for 15+ years.  Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using.  Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of those poly tools.  As for NURBS, well that's another topic for another day but they could really use improving.

As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell.  It's probably fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical and architectural things from time to time.  Here's hoping for some development in this area.

Comments most welcome and please point out if I'm wrong or missing something on these tools :)

-- 
_________________________________________________

Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions

Phone: 780.463.3126

www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca

[Gene Crucean]

Even though I think that the current tools are fairly solid for the most part... I fully agree that the modeling toolset needs a heavy update. But nothing with a LW or Modo mindset please. I personally can't stand the way the tools work in those apps, with the exception of that cool sketch extrude tool. That thing is sweet regardless of how useful it really is. I want full interactivity. Like you mentioned, no choosing settings in a ppg to see the result, only to undo and try again. I actually prefer how Max draws new primitives. It also lets you base it's location on an objects normal. That's very handy and fast.

But speaking of that, have you tried creating a new object and quickly snapping it to your new location with ctrl? It's not on the same level but it's imo the best method available.

What software you are coming from btw?

Oh and welcome to the SI community!

--
[Gene Crucean] - [VFX & CG Supervisor/Generalist]
** Freelance for hire **

[Len Krenzler]

Thanks for the warm welcome!  And let me reiterate that I'm thrilled with SI in general, just a bit frustrated with modeling.  I'd never go back to Lightwave which is what I'm coming from.  I cringe whenever I have to use it just to export something :)

I think overall modeling has been let slide a bit and could really benefit from some work.  Right now for NURBS I use MoI (moi3d.com) which I find really excellent.

Just hoping SI will get a modeling makeover sometime soon so I don't have to use anything else!

Cheers! - Len Krenzler - www.actionart.ca

[Schoenberger]

>Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!
>I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?  This is so unlike the rest of SI.

If dublicate mutliple CTRL-Shift-D does not work for you:
Dublicate your object 100 times, select all.
Enter in the X coordinate on the right menu bar:
L(0;20) => first object has x 0, last one has x 20, the others are evenly spaced
R(0;20) => all objects have a random x coordinate between 0 and 20

I especially like to place objects randomly in space with that feature.

Holger Schönberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

 

 

 

---

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Len Krenzler
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:01 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

[kim aldis]

I'm sure, with a little effort, you could wrap that up into a package, make it genuinely interactive. Writing an interactive duplicator wouldn't be that difficult either. I know, 'why should I'? Mostly because you need it but also because sometimes it good to sweat the small stuff yourself, give the heavyweights time for the big stuff.

:)

[Dan Yargici]

As an aside.... Kim, the fact that your TinyThickness toolset isn't hasn't been integrated in to Soft yet is truely tragic.  Thanks for that great tool.

It's on http://rray.de/xsi/ if anyone's still not tried it on any other of Kim's modelling tools.

DAN

P.S. Please donate if you haven't, Reinhard is doing an amazing job of maintaining that page and it must take a beating bandwidth wise...

[Len Krenzler]

Thanks!  That's handy.

[Christopher Tedin]

Yes, thank you, thank you, thank Kim you for TinyThickness!

[kim aldis]

I asked them if they wanted to buy it. They declined.

[Eugen Sares]

Hi Len,
my sympahies!! SI is great, but the modelling tools desperately need love!
You will find plugins/scripts, though, for a lot of your wishes (which I
absolutely share).

A tip, for what it's worth - this command allows you to place Primitives
interactively:

DrawPrimitiveTool("Cube", "MeshSurface", null, null);

But only a green null object, not the Primitive itself.
You can choose to either transform an object when clicking on an empty
spot in the VP or deselect.
Together with snapping, option 1 can do a good job placing objects in your
scene.

What bugged me a lot was a missing Box primitive - length, width, height.
Unbelievable. So I wrote one myself:
http://www.keyvis.at/tools/Softimage/Box.zip

Extrusions and Revolutions:
what's missing here for my taste is the lack of support for multiple
Subcurves. Only the first Subcurve is taken.
Only CurvesToMesh can handle multiple Subcurves, which then again does not
support open Subcurves, like Extrude does!
Crap. I mean, really.

Next, if you try to edit CurveLists, you will run into trouble, because
there are almost no tools on Subcurves.
I'm still working on a set of Operators for this purpose, which I
hopefully can finish the next days (long story...)

But then: there have been some tech preview videos showing parametrical
modelling workflows with ICE.
So there's a good chance SI will catch up here, and we all are gonna be
happy!

Best,
Eugen

>> is a rather neglected area in SI.The more I use it the more I
>> dislike it.This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most

>> projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max
>> or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the

>> rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals.I'm

>> hoping it will get some attention in the near future.
>>
>> As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like
>> the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some
>> REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started.I
>> still use other programs for some simple things which is
>> disappointing.Here's a few very basicexamples:
>>
>> Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I

>> want it? Really?I couldn't believe that.Take a look at LW or Modo

>> on how to do this correctly.
>>
>> Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just
>> select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform

>> and...what?Can't do that?Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to

>> convert to a curve?Why?No translate/scale/rotate?What?Extrude has

>> it, why not revolve?Inconsistency like this is frustrating.

>>
>> Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current

>> ones in place to make a solid object.I can extrude OR duplicate
>> polys but not both?Seriously?!This is pretty basic.

>>
>> Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a
>> plugin?
>>
>> Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a
>> 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!I
>> have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do

>> it again?This is so unlike the rest of SI.

>>
>> These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages

>> for 15+ years.Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to

>> making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using.
>> Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of
>> those poly tools. As for NURBS, well that's another topic for
>> another day but they could really use improving.
>>
>> As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but

>> less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell.It's probably

>> fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical

>> and architectural things from time to time.Here's hoping for some

>> development in this area.
>>
>> Comments most welcome and please point out if I'm wrong or missing
>> something on these tools :)
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________________________
>>
>> Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions
>>
>> Phone: 780.463.3126
>>

>> www.creativecontrol.ca <http://www.creativecontrol.ca>
>> -l...@creativecontrol.ca <mailto:l...@creativecontrol.ca>

>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> [Gene Crucean] - [VFX & CG Supervisor/Generalist]
>> ** Freelance for hire **
>
>

--
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionï¿œrem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[kim aldis]

Adding fuel to the fire: The reason tinythickness and the curve extrude tool were written originally was because the Softimage extrude tool cannot do extrusions correctly. If you're doing architectural, CAD or product design then Softimage doesn't have the fundamental ability to extrude a curve or shape along complex curves and produce an acceptable result. there are many models that you cannot build in Softimag because of this. If you haven't come across this, take a square, delete one point then extrude another curve around the square. Not how the edges that you'd expect to be parallel to the original square aren't. This is a staggering omission. More staggering that even version 1 of SI|3D couldn't do this. It's worthless. Can't use it. For years you couldn't extrude text, couldn't sweep an cornice around a room. First job I did in SI|3D was a model of St Pauls cathedral; couldn't be done. There are actually parts of St Pauls cathedral  that you can't build in Softimage. That's why I wrote those extrude tools. Took maybe a couple of days.

[kim aldis]

To be fair though, it was easy, wasn't it. What did it take, 10 minutes?

[Len Krenzler]

Thank you VERY much for sharing and helpful suggestions! Like you say,
maybe ICE will rocket modeling to the top like it did for other things :)

--
_________________________________________________

Phone: 780.463.3126

www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca

[Len Krenzler]

I've never done it but I'll give it a go :)

Is there a new link for your tools?  The one on rray.de seems to be broken (http://kim-aldis.co.uk/drupal-6.1/node/40)

Cheers! - Len

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

That's a cool trick.
To create tons of duplicate, personally I'd use the Duplicate Tool with snapping, or  animate the object and use Duplicate from Animation

[Dan Yargici]

Len there is a local backup of everything on the site also... Use that link... ;)

DAN

[Ed]

modeling tools I miss from 3ds Max are a symmetry operator that merges at the middle [i don't like the clone mesh workaround] 

and curves editing [still don't know how to merge two curves at the same object]...

Eugen and Kim, big thanks for the tools ;)

[Matt Lind]

A few of my prop artists requested that tool of me.  They called it a “mirror plane”.

 

I tried building it in Softimage but could only do half of the job using out of the box components.  The main issue being that wherever the operator was installed in the construction history, it would never see any modifications after that point.  Because it’s comprised of multiple pieces, I can’t drag it up to the animation part of the construction history either L.  Basically I’d have to write it myself as an operator to get around the problem.

 

If you can live with that limitation, it’s not too difficult to rig up using the SlicePolygons operator, Symmetrize operator, and a few expressions.

 

Matt

[renato polimeno]

Do you guys know if XSI has any modeling tool similar to Maya´s reflection plane ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUWt8GJu40

--
-> Renato Polimeno
www.renatopolimeno.com
www.tribbo.com.br
www.facebook.com/renato.polimeno

[Steven Caron]

use the tweak tool with symmetry on

s

[Grahame Fuller]

If you're just moving points like in that video, you can simply activate Sym mode.

If you're making topo changes, I prefer this setup: http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/index.php/Symmetrical_Modeling_Setup

gray

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of renato polimeno
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 01:55 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

Do you guys know if XSI has any modeling tool similar to Maya´s reflection plane ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUWt8GJu40

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com<mailto:ml...@carbinestudios.com>> wrote:
A few of my prop artists requested that tool of me. They called it a "mirror plane".

I tried building it in Softimage but could only do half of the job using out of the box components. The main issue being that wherever the operator was installed in the construction history, it would never see any modifications after that point. Because it's comprised of multiple pieces, I can't drag it up to the animation part of the construction history either :(. Basically I'd have to write it myself as an operator to get around the problem.

If you can live with that limitation, it's not too difficult to rig up using the SlicePolygons operator, Symmetrize operator, and a few expressions.

Matt

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:04 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Subject: Re: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

modeling tools I miss from 3ds Max are a symmetry operator that merges at the middle [i don't like the clone mesh workaround]
and curves editing [still don't know how to merge two curves at the same object]...

Eugen and Kim, big thanks for the tools ;)

--
-> Renato Polimeno
www.renatopolimeno.com<http://www.renatopolimeno.com>
www.tribbo.com.br<http://www.tribbo.com.br>
www.facebook.com/renato.polimeno<http://www.facebook.com/renato.polimeno>

[Eugen Sares]

The code itself, yes. Well, a bit longer maybe =}.
And it has no params for subdivisions. Yet.

The trick with scripts is to to get know the framework. It's a Topology
Operator, not many code examples around for these.

Still, I'm not 100% sure:
a Generator Op is simply a Topo Op applied at the bottom of the stack...
Correct?
That's what I do in the script: create an empty object, apply an Op that
writes in the geometry with .Set()

--
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

[Christopher Tedin]

Thanks for this link. Can't believe I missed it. Should be scriptable,
no? I'll have to give it a try. It'd be nice to have a button that takes
care of this.

[Matt Lind]

We’re doing topology changes.  

 

Unfortunately your Wiki tutorial doesn’t address the same issue.  Also wouldn’t work too well in our production because it has dependencies on other objects (the clone in this case).  We need to import/export geometry as models and cannot afford to have excess baggage hanging around as it will mess up our exporters to our game engine.  Whatever the solution is, it has to be operator based.

 

The mirror plane, as my prop artists call it, is a tool from 3DSMax.  It’s a combination knife and symmetrize tool.  probably the best way to describe it is as a kaleidoscope symmetry modeler, but with more degrees of freedom.

 

The advantage is the mirror plane can be transformed to create arbitrary symmetries which are very useful in creating organic shapes such as trees.   A few cuts in a trunk which are rotated and scaled can create many branches without much time or effort.  Texture UVs, vertex colors, weightmaps, user normals, materials, are all transferred and preserved.

 

The limitations with Softimage are that it doesn’t see edits past the insertion point in the construction history.  Example, if the artist wants to push and pull points to update the result, the mirror plane doesn’t see those edits because they occur later in the construction history.  Softimage doesn’t allow me to put the slice and symmetrize operators in the animation part of the construction history.  So really, this tool is very limited in Softimage to modeling only and in niche cases L.  However, if these limitations were somehow removed via updats in the modeling kernel, then this would be a very powerful and often requested addition to the modeling toolset.

 

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Grahame Fuller
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 11:07 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: RE: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

 

If you’re just moving points like in that video, you can simply activate Sym mode.

 

If you’re making topo changes, I prefer this setup: http://softimage.wiki.softimage.com/index.php/Symmetrical_Modeling_Setup

 

gray

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of renato polimeno
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 01:55 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

 

Do you guys know if XSI has any modeling tool similar to Maya´s reflection plane ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyUWt8GJu40

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 4:48 PM, Matt Lind <ml...@carbinestudios.com> wrote:

A few of my prop artists requested that tool of me.  They called it a “mirror plane”.

 

I tried building it in Softimage but could only do half of the job using out of the box components.  The main issue being that wherever the operator was installed in the construction history, it would never see any modifications after that point.  Because it’s comprised of multiple pieces, I can’t drag it up to the animation part of the construction history either L.  Basically I’d have to write it myself as an operator to get around the problem.

 

If you can live with that limitation, it’s not too difficult to rig up using the SlicePolygons operator, Symmetrize operator, and a few expressions.

 

Matt

 

 

 

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:04 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

 

modeling tools I miss from 3ds Max are a symmetry operator that merges at the middle [i don't like the clone mesh workaround] 

and curves editing [still don't know how to merge two curves at the same object]...

 

Eugen and Kim, big thanks for the tools ;)

--
-> Renato Polimeno
www.renatopolimeno.com

www.tribbo.com.br
www.facebook.com/renato.polimeno

[Eugen Sares]

Am 09.02.2011, 19:03 Uhr, schrieb Ed <edsch...@gmail.com>:

> modeling tools I miss from 3ds Max are a symmetry operator that merges at
> the middle [i don't like the clone mesh workaround]

Wrote "SliceSymmetrize" for that reason.
(Got to put it on my website at last...)

The mirror plane is the Curve Rectangle. Better that an Implicit Object
because you can use the corners for snapping.
Enjoy!

> and curves editing [still don't know how to merge two curves at the same
> object]...

"MergeSubcurves" is almost done. Still a bug with inverted Subcurves, but
I'm on it.

[Len Krenzler]

Awesome! Thanks! Keep me posted on the "MergeSubcurves", much needed :)

--
_________________________________________________

Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions

Phone: 780.463.3126

www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca

[Christopher Tedin]

I love you! :-)

[Stefan Kubicek]

> Writing an interactive duplicator wouldn't be that difficult either. I know, 'why should I'? Mostly because you need it but also because sometimes it good to sweat the small stuff yourself, give the heavyweights time for the big stuff.

Right, though the small stuff would be easier to do if the "heavyweights" had provided us with the same SDK functionality that they have.
Lots of things that Softimage uses internally (like updating clusters, access to certain UI methods and classes) are not available in the public SDK, which makes it a lot harder to write plugins that look and feel like native/well integrated ones (ask Eric Mootz about UV's for emPolygonizer).
An unnecessary hassle for those actually willing to invest the time.

That being said, the Poly modeling tools (as opposed to NURBS, which really stink) in Soft are still quite good imho compared to what you get in Maya out of the box. Yet both Maya and Soft need a lot of additional plugins installed to get what you get in Max without installing anything.

> :)
>
> On 9 Feb 2011, at 09:25, Schoenberger wrote:
>
>> >Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!
>> >I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again? This is so unlike the rest of SI.
>>
>> If dublicate mutliple CTRL-Shift-D does not work for you:
>> Dublicate your object 100 times, select all.
>> Enter in the X coordinate on the right menu bar:
>> L(0;20) => first object has x 0, last one has x 20, the others are evenly spaced
>> R(0;20) => all objects have a random x coordinate between 0 and 20
>>
>> I especially like to place objects randomly in space with that feature.
>>

>> Holger Schï¿œnberger

>> technical director
>> The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

>> From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Len Krenzler
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:01 PM
>> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
>> Subject: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI
>>
>> I'm hoping the SI development team will consider listening to a relatively new user, after all, new users are needed to grow the user base :)
>>
>> Although I really love SI in general It seems to me that modeling is a rather neglected area in SI. The more I use it the more I dislike it. This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals. I'm hoping it will get some attention in the near future.
>>
>> As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started. I still use other programs for some simple things which is disappointing. Here's a few very basic examples:
>>
>> Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I want it? Really? I couldn't believe that. Take a look at LW or Modo on how to do this correctly.
>>
>> Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform and...what? Can't do that? Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to convert to a curve? Why? No translate/scale/rotate? What? Extrude has it, why not revolve? Inconsistency like this is frustrating.
>>
>> Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current ones in place to make a solid object. I can extrude OR duplicate polys but not both? Seriously?! This is pretty basic.
>>
>> Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a plugin?
>>
>> Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?! I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again? This is so unlike the rest of SI.
>>
>> These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages for 15+ years. Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using. Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of those poly tools. As for NURBS, well that's another topic for another day but they could really use improving.
>>
>> As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell. It's probably fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical and architectural things from time to time. Here's hoping for some development in this area.
>>
>> Comments most welcome and please point out if I'm wrong or missing something on these tools :)
>>
>> --
>> _________________________________________________
>>
>> Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions
>>
>> Phone: 780.463.3126
>>
>> www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca
>
>

--
-------------------------------------------
Stefan Kubicek Co-founder
-------------------------------------------
keyvis digital imagery
1050 Vienna Wehrgasse 9 Austria
Phone: +43/699/12614231
--- www.keyvis.at ste...@keyvis.at ---
-- This email and its attachments are
--confidential and for the recipient only--

[Eugen Sares]

*cough*
=}
You are most welcome!
Find it under Model>Modify>PolyMesh.
It supports multiple objects, by the way.
Shouldn't give much trouble. If it does, tell me!

[kim aldis]

I worked with the SDK for years. It's not that bad. Quite the reverse, in fact.

[Ed]

hey Matt, big thanks for the explanation. now it makes sense! i've never understood that...

Eugen, thanks for the SliceSymmetrize, it'll be helpful but i could't continue editing the symmetrized mesh with changes on the opposite side. am i doing something wrong?

[Eugen Sares]

Nope. It's not meant to be a "rig" for a symmetry modelling workflow, like
for a head, if this is what you are looking for.
Sorry to disappoint...

Unfortunately, you can't make changes down the Operator Stack and see the
result of the complete stack at the same time.
You have to use "disable from here", the apply more Ops, then "enable from
here".

***** for the wishlist! *****
There could be a marker in the stack where the next Op is placed, without
this dis/enabling halfsense.
Would this be possible without ripping SI's guts out?

In 3ds max, this is possible. Just select a Modifier somewhere below, and
see the complete stack update interactively (pipe icon on/off).
Yo... this point goes to max...

All SliceSymmetrize does is simplify the job of adding a Slice and a Symm
Op which should share the same plane.
It applies a SCOP (Scripted Op) on the Custom Plane of the Symm Op, since
you cannot link that to an object, like in the Slice Op.
If you add more Topo Ops on top, and change the symm plane, the results
are unpredictable, of course.

You could create a Clone, scale it by -1, Invert Polys, Merge both halves,
and work on the first halve to see the result interactively.
-E

[peter boeykens]

> To create tons of duplicate, personally I'd use the Duplicate Tool with snapping, or  animate the object and use Duplicate from Animation

 

 

Or if you use nurbs as a base: create an object, constrain it to the nurbs surface and turn on normal/tangency -

then duplicate it x times, open a multi ppg, and type the same random expression R(0,1) in the U and V position.

Hundreds of objects scattered on the surface, properly oriented and sticking to it interactively while it deforms.

No plugins needed - takes all of a minute to set up.

 

And if you want something more involved - its really not hard to do.

I think Kim made a tool like this to work with polymeshes using texture space.

 

I made a tool to scatter random objects on a mesh, using selected components, respecting weightmaps for distribution and hair guides for orientation and grooming.

I'm not much of a scripter and it wasn’t all that hard to do - took me two days to get the basics working.

 

 

there's tons of useful things in XSI - often undocumented, and nobody knows all of them.

Don’t give up because at first it feels awkward to you.

It is a very deep software - you can still learn new things and grow with it after working a decade in it.

Most people find it very rewarding - once they get their head wrapped around it.

A very common issue new users run into, is understanding how XSI's all-round tools can be simple on first sight, but when combined they become building blocks to create very adaptable and interactive working methods.

 

All too often, people coming from another software, try XSI quickly - and readily dismiss it because it doesn’t behave the way they're used to.

 

I mean I see it happening on a daily basis now, with "experienced maya artists" - constantly saying: XSI can't do this or that.

Most of the time, they are wrong and XSI is capable of doing exactly what they want - 

sometimes in a more elegant way than they are used to, sometimes in an indirect or less obvious way.

But they look for a specific tool in a specific place where it would be in the other soft, and panic when they don’t find it. (I'm not accusing you Len)

 

XSI can do some hard surface modeling that can't be done in other software - even though that isn't what it excels in.

 

And then there are those things XSI doesn’t do.

Often you can adapt they way you are used to work, using other good tools in XSI, and it ends up not really being a shortcoming.

The example about creating primitives at the origin.

When modeling precisely I don’t like to draw primitives just somewhere in space. I rather model at the origin, prepare the element, and for instance the center, and then use the totally awesome transformation tools (really - most people don’t realize just how good XSI is for transforming things in a very controlled manner) to place things exactly where I want them in no time. The transformation tools in modo by comparison are like trying to tap a nail with a brick.

 

I've done some very precise radial symmetrical modeling on an existing object, coming from another soft, that was totally offset and oriented somewhere in space - and it was a breeze to do. I actually found out lots of little errors in the supposedly "perfectly symmetrical" model - that I corrected along the way.

Modeling in XSI is severely underappreciated - but in my experience its often down to lack of knowledge of the available tools, and to trying to use it as if it is some other software.

 

It isn't the unorganized but well filled toolbox that Lightwave is, it isn't based on plugins like Max, it isn't as procedural as Houdini. It isn't Maya either. It has its own identity - that's actually quite nice: a very well organized toolset and interface, with powerful general purpose tools. Lots of complex tasks are quite easily achievable with the basic toolset when used creatively. I dare say that’s what sets XSI apart from the others.

 

(anybody still reading?)

 

 

 

 

From: Luc-Eric Rousseau

Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:09 PM

To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

[Stefan Kubicek]

> (anybody still reading?)

I am! Very well written, Though I'd disagree on the part that says that Softimage is not Maya/Max/LW/Houdini. I think it's a very good mixture of all of them,
as if someone took the best of those and put it all together in a new and coherent Application.

> From: Luc-Eric Rousseau
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:09 PM
> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: RE: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI
>
>
> That's a cool trick.
> To create tons of duplicate, personally I'd use the Duplicate Tool with snapping, or animate the object and use Duplicate from Animation
>
> On 2011-02-09 4:26 AM, "Schoenberger" <X...@digidragon.de> wrote:
>>
>> >Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!
>> >I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again? This is so unlike the rest of SI.
>>
>> If dublicate mutliple CTRL-Shift-D does not work for you:
>> Dublicate your object 100 times, select all.
>> Enter in the X coordinate on the right menu bar:
>> L(0;20) => first object has x 0, last one has x 20, the others are evenly spaced
>> R(0;20) => all objects have a random x coordinate between 0 and 20
>>
>> I especially like to place objects randomly in space with that feature.
>>

>> Holger Schï¿œnberger

>> technical director
>> The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Len Krenzler
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:01 PM
>>> To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
>>> Subject: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI
>>>
>>> I'm hoping the SI development team will consider listening to a relatively new user, after all, new users are needed to grow the user base :)
>>>
>>> Although I really love SI in general It seems to me that modeling is a rather neglected area in SI. The more I use it the more I dislike it. This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals. I'm hoping it will get some attention in the near future.
>>>
>>> As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started. I still use other programs for some simple things which is disappointing. Here's a few very basic examples:
>>>
>>> Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I want it? Really? I couldn't believe that. Take a look at LW or Modo on how to do this correctly.
>>>
>>> Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform and...what? Can't do that? Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to convert to a curve? Why? No translate/scale/rotate? What? Extrude has it, why not revolve? Inconsistency like this is frustrating.
>>>
>>> Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current ones in place to make a solid object. I can extrude OR duplicate polys but not both? Seriously?! This is pretty basic.
>>>
>>> Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a plugin?
>>>
>>> Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?! I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again? This is so unlike the rest of SI.
>>>
>>> These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages for 15+ years. Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using. Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of those poly tools. As for NURBS, well that's another topic for another day but they could really use improving.
>>>
>>> As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell. It's probably fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical and architectural things from time to time. Here's hoping for some development in this area.
>>>
>>> Comments most welcome and please point out if I'm wrong or missing something on these tools :)
>>>
>>> --
>>> _________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Len Krenzler - Creative Control Media Productions
>>>
>>> Phone: 780.463.3126
>>>
>>> www.creativecontrol.ca - l...@creativecontrol.ca
>

[Morten Bartholdy]

You put it so well, Peter :)

/MB

--
Best Regards

Morten Bartholdy
3D/VFX Supervisor

[David Gallagher]

I want to add that Softimage's modeling for organic shaping is stellar, especially as it relates to preparing models for the rest of the pipeline.ￜ It allowed me to develop a new process at Blue Sky Studios prototyping face shapes and model changes to make the animation more appealing. We used that on about 5 or 6 of their films before I left about 6 months ago.

These are the key benefits:
-Interacting with the poly forms smoothed, with very light edge lines, with small vertex sizes (Did you know you can change their size?). You can focus on the shape. Maya has some of this now, but it is still not nearly as good.

-Being able to make face shapes in conjunction with the mixer, working directly on the main geo. To see other shapes muted, soloed as you're working. This allows you to craft shapes that work for different scenarios, with just the right falloff. You can make correctives for shape combinations quickly. In face work, it's all about how the functions combine to make the range of expressive results.

-The tweak tool. You can grab anywhere and it will just get the nearest point/edge/poly and transform it precisely. Add the proportional editing and it's very sculptural without giving up precise transform control. I far prefer this workflow to the Zbrush approach geared toward paintstrokes.

-The envelope weighting is far superior.

-You're not afraid of losing blendshape work because of the amazing non-linear abilities to rework and reform the geo after you start rigging or prototype rigging, and collapse all those changes from the stack. And if the changes are really significant, you can always Gator you're way out of a jam.

I could go on.

If a small part, Softimage was a key tool in achieving appeal in Blue Sky's work for many years.

Dave Gallagher

On 2/10/2011 9:42 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote:

(anybody still reading?)

I am! Very well written, Though I'd disagree on the part that says that Softimage is not Maya/Max/LW/Houdini. I think it's a very good mixture of all of them,
as if someone took the best of those and put it all together in a new and coherent Application.

From: Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:09 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: RE: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI


That's a cool trick.

To create tons of duplicate, personally I'd use the Duplicate Tool with snapping, orￜ animate the object and use Duplicate from Animation

On 2011-02-09 4:26 AM, "Schoenberger" <X...@digidragon.de> wrote:

>Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!

>I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?ￜ This is so unlike the rest of SI.

If dublicate mutliple CTRL-Shift-D does not work for you:
Dublicate your object 100 times, select all.
Enter in the X coordinate on the right menu bar:
L(0;20) => first object has x 0, last one has x 20, the others are evenly spaced
R(0;20) => all objects have a random x coordinate between 0 and 20

I especially like to place objects randomly in space with that feature.

Holger Schï¿œnberger
technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

________________________________
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Len Krenzler
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:01 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

I'm hoping the SI development team will consider listening to a relatively new user, after all, new users are needed to grow the user base :)

Although I really love SI in general It seems to me that modeling is a rather neglected area in SI.ￜ The more I use it the more I dislike it.ￜ This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals.ￜ I'm hoping it will get some attention in the near future.

As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started.ￜ I still use other programs for some simple things which is disappointing.ￜ Here's a few very basicￜ examples:

Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I want it? Really?ￜ I couldn't believe that.ￜ Take a look at LW or Modo on how to do this correctly.

Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform and...what?ￜ Can't do that?ￜ Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to convert to a curve?ￜ Why?ￜ No translate/scale/rotate?ￜ What?ￜ Extrude has it, why not revolve?ￜ Inconsistency like this is frustrating.

Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current ones in place to make a solid object.ￜ I can extrude OR duplicate polys but not both?ￜ Seriously?!ￜ This is pretty basic.

Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a plugin?

Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!ￜ I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?ￜ This is so unlike the rest of SI.

These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages for 15+ years.ￜ Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using.ￜ Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of those poly tools.ￜ As for NURBS, well that's another topic for another day but they could really use improving.

As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell.ￜ It's probably fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical and architectural things from time to time.ￜ Here's hoping for some development in this area.

[Todd Akita]

Sounds like that would make a great class.

-T

On Feb 10, 2011, at 10:30 AM, David Gallagher <davegsoft...@gmail.com> wrote:

I want to add that Softimage's modeling for organic shaping is stellar, especially as it relates to preparing models for the rest of the pipeline.  It allowed me to develop a new process at Blue Sky Studios prototyping face shapes and model changes to make the animation more appealing. We used that on about 5 or 6 of their films before I left about 6 months ago.

These are the key benefits:
-Interacting with the poly forms smoothed, with very light edge lines, with small vertex sizes (Did you know you can change their size?). You can focus on the shape. Maya has some of this now, but it is still not nearly as good.

-Being able to make face shapes in conjunction with the mixer, working directly on the main geo. To see other shapes muted, soloed as you're working. This allows you to craft shapes that work for different scenarios, with just the right falloff. You can make correctives for shape combinations quickly. In face work, it's all about how the functions combine to make the range of expressive results.

-The tweak tool. You can grab anywhere and it will just get the nearest point/edge/poly and transform it precisely. Add the proportional editing and it's very sculptural without giving up precise transform control. I far prefer this workflow to the Zbrush approach geared toward paintstrokes.

-The envelope weighting is far superior.

-You're not afraid of losing blendshape work because of the amazing non-linear abilities to rework and reform the geo after you start rigging or prototype rigging, and collapse all those changes from the stack. And if the changes are really significant, you can always Gator you're way out of a jam.

I could go on.

If a small part, Softimage was a key tool in achieving appeal in Blue Sky's work for many years.

Dave Gallagher


On 2/10/2011 9:42 AM, Stefan Kubicek wrote:

(anybody still reading?)

I am! Very well written, Though I'd disagree on the part that says that Softimage is not Maya/Max/LW/Houdini. I think it's a very good mixture of all of them,
as if someone took the best of those and put it all together in a new and coherent Application.

From: Luc-Eric Rousseau
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 6:09 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: RE: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI


That's a cool trick.

To create tons of duplicate, personally I'd use the Duplicate Tool with snapping, or  animate the object and use Duplicate from Animation

On 2011-02-09 4:26 AM, "Schoenberger" <X...@digidragon.de> wrote:

>Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!

>I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?  This is so unlike the rest of SI.

If dublicate mutliple CTRL-Shift-D does not work for you:
Dublicate your object 100 times, select all.
Enter in the X coordinate on the right menu bar:
L(0;20) => first object has x 0, last one has x 20, the others are evenly spaced
R(0;20) => all objects have a random x coordinate between 0 and 20

I especially like to place objects randomly in space with that feature.

Holger Schönberger

technical director
The day has 24 hours, if that does not suffice, I will take the night

________________________________
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Len Krenzler
Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:01 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Observations of a new user - Modeling in SI

I'm hoping the SI development team will consider listening to a relatively new user, after all, new users are needed to grow the user base :)

Although I really love SI in general It seems to me that modeling is a rather neglected area in SI.  The more I use it the more I dislike it.  This seems odd to me as it's the first step in most projects and if a project is started in one package (SI, Maya, Max or whatever) it is probably more likely to stay in that system the rest of the way, at least for small shops and individuals.  I'm hoping it will get some attention in the near future.

As a new user I really love some aspects of modeling in SI like the interactivity, the operator stack etc. but there are some REALLY glaring holes that came as a shock to me when I started.  I still use other programs for some simple things which is disappointing.  Here's a few very basic  examples:

Draw Primitives - I can't draw a box, ball or whatever where I want it? Really?  I couldn't believe that.  Take a look at LW or Modo on how to do this correctly.

Revolve - I need to make some threads on a bolt so I'll just select a polygon and revolve it a few times with a transform and...what?  Can't do that?  Can't revolve an edge or polygon, have to convert to a curve?  Why?  No translate/scale/rotate?  What?  Extrude has it, why not revolve?  Inconsistency like this is frustrating.

Extrude - I'd like to extrude some polys and leave the current ones in place to make a solid object.  I can extrude OR duplicate polys but not both?  Seriously?!  This is pretty basic.

Thickness - No command for shell/thickness, I have to go find a plugin?

Duplicate multiple - I'd like to take a rivet and duplicate it a 100 times or so with some transform but it's not interactive?!  I have to guess/pre-calculate the spacing and if it's not right, do it again?  This is so unlike the rest of SI.

These are pretty simple things that have been in other packages for 15+ years.  Cleaning up stuff like this would go a LONG way to making SI an outstanding modeler that people would enjoy using.  Since Max is under the same roof perhaps take a look at some of those poly tools.  As for NURBS, well that's another topic for another day but they could really use improving.

As a new user I'm blown away by how great the rest of SI is but less than thrilled with modeling as you can tell.  It's probably fine for organic characters but some of us need to do mechanical and architectural things from time to time.  Here's hoping for some development in this area.

[Eric Cosky]

I have to second the thumbs up on the SDK. Being primarily a programmer
myself, I went with XSI partly because the SDK seemed to be the best
available based on my review of the options. The price of Foundation at the
time helped too but that mainly served to give me more time to become
convinced the full version was worth the upgrade price.

I actually consider myself a "new user" when it comes to modeling in
Softimage despite having used it for several years now. Some of the basic
things I still find awkward, often due to lack of interactive controls
(duplicate is a perfect example). I would just like to echo what a few
others have said in this thread about how the modeling tools could use some
improvements. They are great any many ways but yet I find myself struggling
much of the time even still.

Slightly related to the new user experience is how Netview has been left by
the wayside - it was another factor in my original decision to go for XSI
because it seemed like a really forward thinking and nice way to centralize
access to plugins and addons for people who weren't interested in scavenging
the net for plugins of potentially dubious quality and/or compatibility. It
had a lot of potential - still does - for making it easier for new users to
get the best experience XSI has to offer by making it easy to find plugins
that might help them out. It didn't work out that way of course, but I've
wondered on many occasions if it would be possible to make an even better
version of netview these days that would be a combination of plugin
discovery and plugin management. A one-stop window for messing around with
optional plugins would be really nice (the current plugin management is
functional but a bit scary for new users afraid of corrupting the install
and of course requires all that other stuff of
finding/downloading/unzipping/managing plugins manually). It could even go
so far as to wrap all calls into the plugins with exception handling and
security changes to drop user rights that plugins shouldn't require (ie most
of them). Wishful thinking, I know.. maybe I'll do it myself someday :) The
SDK really is great. The fact that something like this, so deeply
intertwined with the XSI core, is (probably) possible for a user to do says
a lot about its capabilities in general.

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of kim aldis
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 1:24 PM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com

[Len Krenzler]

First of all, thanks for all the great info Peter!

 

Or if you use nurbs as a base: create an object, constrain it to the nurbs surface and turn on normal/tangency -

then duplicate it x times, open a multi ppg, and type the same random expression R(0,1) in the U and V position.

Hundreds of objects scattered on the surface, properly oriented and sticking to it interactively while it deforms.

No plugins needed - takes all of a minute to set up.

I'll be using that :D

 

there's tons of useful things in XSI - often undocumented, and nobody knows all of them.

Yes, I've discovered that.  It's my first time on the list so I'm thrilled to see the fantastic level of support available.

Don’t give up because at first it feels awkward to you.

It is a very deep software - you can still learn new things and grow with it after working a decade in it.

Most people find it very rewarding - once they get their head wrapped around it.

I should clarify that I'm not in any way close to giving up, in fact, quite the opposite.  It is incredibly deep software and I find something new every day.

A very common issue new users run into, is understanding how XSI's all-round tools can be simple on first sight, but when combined they become building blocks to create very adaptable and interactive working methods.

 

All too often, people coming from another software, try XSI quickly - and readily dismiss it because it doesn’t behave the way they're used to.

True.  I think my original point was that there are some things in the modeling tools that could be improved in such a way as to make it easier for new users without making it less elegant or get in the way of experienced users.  Some tools are more or less needed by almost everyone.  The examples I gave were just examples, like a transform tab for the revolve tool, a thickness tool, etc. are quite standard for a reason I think.  You wouldn't have a construction shop with no claw hammers just because you wanted to be different from the shop next door as an example.

 

I mean I see it happening on a daily basis now, with "experienced maya artists" - constantly saying: XSI can't do this or that.

Most of the time, they are wrong and XSI is capable of doing exactly what they want - 

sometimes in a more elegant way than they are used to, sometimes in an indirect or less obvious way.

But they look for a specific tool in a specific place where it would be in the other soft, and panic when they don’t find it. (I'm not accusing you Len)

Very true.  On the other hand, a few simple things might attract those users instead of repelling them.  Modeling is where most people in small shops need to start so a smooth transition would be helpful.

 

XSI can do some hard surface modeling that can't be done in other software - even though that isn't what it excels in.

I agree completely here.

 

And then there are those things XSI doesn’t do.

Often you can adapt they way you are used to work, using other good tools in XSI, and it ends up not really being a shortcoming.

The example about creating primitives at the origin.

When modeling precisely I don’t like to draw primitives just somewhere in space. I rather model at the origin, prepare the element, and for instance the center, and then use the totally awesome transformation tools (really - most people don’t realize just how good XSI is for transforming things in a very controlled manner) to place things exactly where I want them in no time. The transformation tools in modo by comparison are like trying to tap a nail with a brick.

 

I've done some very precise radial symmetrical modeling on an existing object, coming from another soft, that was totally offset and oriented somewhere in space - and it was a breeze to do. I actually found out lots of little errors in the supposedly "perfectly symmetrical" model - that I corrected along the way.

Modeling in XSI is severely underappreciated - but in my experience its often down to lack of knowledge of the available tools, and to trying to use it as if it is some other software.

 

It isn't the unorganized but well filled toolbox that Lightwave is, it isn't based on plugins like Max, it isn't as procedural as Houdini. It isn't Maya either. It has its own identity - that's actually quite nice: a very well organized toolset and interface, with powerful general purpose tools. Lots of complex tasks are quite easily achievable with the basic toolset when used creatively. I dare say that’s what sets XSI apart from the others.

 

(anybody still reading?)

Yes!  I do agree with everything above.  In no way do I want SI to be Max, Maya, LW etc.!  Maybe just fill some obvious holes in the modeling tool set.

The main reason for my original post was to see if anyone else felt the same about modeling needing some attention in SI, and if there were any, maybe encourage the development team to look at it in the future.

Anyway....thanks to everyone for all the great feedback, tips, and tools!!!  I'm glad to be a part of the great SI community :)

Cheers!!! - Len Krenzler - www.actionart.ca

[Gene Crucean]

I agree with almost everything you are saying Peter, and also agree that the modeling toolset is largely underrated. The tools is that is does have (with the exception of a few) are extremely solid. But have you used other modeling applications lately? There are some seriously handy tools available. Tools that don't force you to Frankenstein your process... and not that that's a bad thing. I love re-purposing tools for random ideas. But some of these tools are elegant... and FAST.

In short... it would be nice to have a modeling update.

... And those damn LIGHTS!

--
[Gene Crucean] - [VFX & CG Supervisor/Generalist]
** Freelance for hire **

[Len Krenzler]

Exactly.� My whole point in a nutshell :)

On 2/10/2011 9:51 AM, Gene Crucean wrote:

I agree with almost everything you are saying Peter, and also agree that the modeling toolset is largely underrated. The tools is that is does have (with the exception of a few) are extremely solid. But have you used other modeling applications lately? There are some seriously handy tools available. Tools that don't force you to Frankenstein your process... and not that that's a bad thing. I love re-purposing tools for random ideas. But some of these tools are elegant... and FAST.

In short... it would be nice to have a modeling update.

[Christopher Tedin]

And, the nondestructive operations make it a breeze to change the model by going through the stack, not to mention separating operations in the Modeling/Shape Modeling/Animation Construction/Secondary Shape modes. That is simply brilliant! I also can't live without the tweak mode either.

Still, it would be nice to have some of the nice items in the graphite modeling toolset from Max.

[Eugen Sares]

I must add, criticizing the modelling toolset does not mean people (me)
are not appreciative of all the goodness it already offers!
What's there is clean, consistent and fast. Maybe that's why holes in the
otherwise shiny surface are expecially obvious.

SI has it's own likeable ways, but yet at some places regarding modelling
you can see that development just stopped halfway.
Other parts of the software became more important, for good reasons, and
all the ingenuity put into ICE etc. already pays off.

Yet modelling, respectable as it is, has lost it's headstart, and I hope
development will come back full circle and boost the engine with some some
nitrous ICE.

Make it better that max, Maya, Modo, make it parametrical, stitch the SDK
at the loose ends (Clusters), and off we go!
If THAT would not draw a lot of attention, too, I don't know.

What if you modelled your character allright and want to put it in some
proper environment? Or if that character has a mechanical/technical
design? The transition between organic/technical modelling is always
seamless.
Switching package or messing with workarounds for things as basic as
extrusions/revolutions/thickness/curve editing just sucks!

Yet SI is always full of surprises... good things will come...

>> Holger Schï¿œnberger

[peter boeykens]

> I am! Very well written, ...

>> You put it so well, Peter :)

> First of all, thanks for all the great info Peter!

>> I agree with almost everything you are saying Peter,

Stop it guys, you're making me blush! :-)

Of course I'm not against some improvements to the toolset, where necessary
taking some hints from competitive software.
I have (had to) use Lightwave, Modo and zbrush not so long ago as to have
forgotten about it, and it was a good lesson in seeing where all four (xsi
included) softs suck and where they shine. I ended up switching between all
apps for almost every asset, to do specific tasks.

I guess my mail was written a bit out of frustration, working with people
bashing the software they're using without getting to the bottom of it. To a
point where knowledge of the old software becomes a hindrance to learn a new
one. (again not pointing any fingers, it wasn't a bashing tread, it was more
my day at the office)
I'm finding it much easier to switch compositing applications, but mastering
several 3D packages is not so obvious if you don't want to be skimming on
the surface.

enough introspection,

more tips and tricks to be shared?
I'm always looking for nice things I hadn't picked up yet.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Eugen Sares" <soft...@keyvis.at>
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:28 PM