The Maya Chronicles - or how retarded that software is...

[Morten Bartholdy]

I am keeping a text document updated with all the annoying, timeconsuming and showstopping stuff in Maya in order to A: hopefully find out I was wrong and Maya can do something I didn't think it could, B: There is a workaround that is not too silly and arduous, or C: confirm I am right and document why I need to leave my workstation to breathe deeply several times a day (this is for my sanity).

The name of this document is Maya Crap - which is very to the point. I will share some stuff in the hope someone perhaps can offer insight so we may have an A or B situation so I learn something.


Todays sliver of insanity in Maya:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The infinitely pathetic relationship editor

Light linking in the Relationship Editor - Objects can not be deselected by clicking their parent groups, requiring to expand all(!)

hierarchies to unlink geometry in a scene, in order to only link one object. Dooooooohhhhhhhh

No way to unlink all objects!!! Dooooooohhhhhh

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Relationship Editors - UV/Texture linking + Hypershade - slow to update

For some reason the Relationship Editor (RE) is horribly slow to update if the object selected has a high polycount, even for something as simple as linking UV sets and textures, which is really just list items and simple data. It is also really slow to update when selecting a list item, UV set or texture. It seems the RE for some reason is associated with all the data associated with the geometry in question! WWTT???


- on a related note:

The Hypershade is slow to update A: when there are many materials (I guess updating shaderballs) and even slower when the selected object has many polygons. Horrible waste of the users time. WWTT??? (which is short for "What Were They Thinking")

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the noise, but the goal is actually to learn here ;)

Morten
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[balazs kiss]

I hear ya! I want to punch through my screen every 5 minutes when I have to do shading work in it. It's like a remote desktop to the Moon.

This video sums up my experience so far : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJ6ZVYuYsw

-balazs

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[Sven Constable]

Hahaha! :)

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[Zoltan Ócsai]

:)))))))))))))))

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[Morten Bartholdy]

Spot on! That is exactly how it is working in Maya :-D

> Den 28. marts 2018 klokken 15:53 skrev balazs kiss <fosp...@gmail.com>:
>
>
> I hear ya! I want to punch through my screen every 5 minutes when I have to
> do shading work in it. It's like a remote desktop to the Moon.
>
> This video sums up my experience so far :

> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DGEJ6ZVYuYsw&d=DwIBaQ&c=76Q6Tcqc-t2x0ciWn7KFdCiqt6IQ7a_IF9uzNzd_2pA&r=GmX_32eCLYPFLJ529RohsPjjNVwo9P0jVMsrMw7PFsA&m=RPZj1NgXhA44Ca-Zgnn0COmHZdgFIZRdIkj6GuEof-k&s=4A2hGEjHvDE7kUnLsUBcKg6sxmw0iREVCEecrnA4GvA&e=

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[Pierre Schiller]

Why not make it an official blog and monetize on it. Let´s capitalize on that Maya viree...

 www.3dcinetv.com - 3D.VFX.Post - Click on socials:

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[Jordi Bares]

I bought a domain long ago precisely to do that… may be I should and let everyone chip in.  X-DDD

jb

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[Pierre Schiller]

Yes please. set up some admins and let the ball roll. specially since everthing clickable is monetized. Has it been giving results to monetize a faulty software over the years? yes. so lets port it for real reviewed horror storiea for everyone to submit.

I can already feel some TDs exhaling and ventilating.

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[Ognjen Vukovic]

Why not just use something else instead instead ?

On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 12:41 AM, Pierre Schiller <activemoti...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes please. set up some admins and let the ball roll. specially since everthing clickable is monetized. Has it been giving results to monetize a faulty software over the years? yes. so lets port it for real reviewed horror storiea for everyone to submit.

I can already feel some TDs exhaling and ventilating.

On Wed, Mar 28, 2018, 14:46 Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

I bought a domain long ago precisely to do that… may be I should and let everyone chip in.  X-DDD

jb

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[Jordi Bares]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…. Ok, let’s give it a go… I will setup a simple blog and give you the URL in a few weeks...

[Rob Wuijster]

AD at GDC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvO8TvezsAk

So... Uhmm... Not a lot of positive comments..... ;)

Rob
\/-------------\/----------------\/

[Anto Matkovic]

It always been like that. I think my first responsibility in 3d world could be described as ''hypershade boy'' :), it was a Maya class where I had to start earlier, to launch Mayas and Hypershade windows, so other students would be able to use them before end of class (or something like that). More or less, that 'position' is possible today.

Anyway I heard great news, there is a new principal developer in Maya team, who already have experiences all over industry. While we don't know for details of his actual engagement, here's what he did for Microsoft and Valve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHG6fXEba0A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

---

From: Morten Bartholdy <x...@colorshopvfx.dk>
To: "Userlist, Softimage" <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2018 1:25 PM
Subject: The Maya Chronicles - or how retarded that software is...

The Hypershade is slow to update A: when there are many materials (I guess updating shaderballs) and even slower when the selected object has many polygons. Horrible waste of the users time. WWTT??? (which is short for "What Were They Thinking")

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Sven Constable]

Ok, no teeths but decent knowledge of marketing. That guy is so spot on, it's kinda terrifiyng. lol

 

From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Anto Matkovic

Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 10:47 AM
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list

[Mirko Jankovic]

- select, obj in the scene, move it, crash maya. repeat

- try to got o time in timeline, wait a bit... crash.. repeat

- press F, view port goes completely black. try on couple scenes and even blank scene with cube.. same thing. see online that there are others with same issue and you need ot reset all preferences.. do that and hope same crap won;t happen again for who knows what reason.

- waste half day waiting for relatively simple scene to even load... move project to SSD... loading time identical as from NAS over network.. go back to waiting and wasting time...

- waste a week on stupid retarded errors in rendering, props disappearing and appearing randomly in frames, render done but frames not written out.,.. at the end reinstall maya from 2018.2 back to 2018. sort out some of those things.. get back others ...

I will never understand how people manage to complete anything in normal time frame with this piece of crap.

Actually I do understand.. they never complete in time...

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[Laurence Dodd]

Ive spent the last month or so lighting and rendering in Maya; I was thinking there would be something in there that made me go "oh yeah!, thats really good", but no not once.

It felt I was fighting the software the whole time, fighting and waiting. It's just so slow to do anything, why click once when you can click five times seems to be the thinking. 
I think the thing I was most surprised about was the lack of feedback from the program, with Soft and Houdini you get a clue what they expect you to click on to complete a task, but you get nothing, it's do it then undo and try the other way around.

Pushing on with my learning of Houdini it is then, just sometimes need to take work to pay bills.

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[Mirko Jankovic]

How do you know when someone is working with maya?

He have his task manager opened non stop for killing the process when it becomes non responsive...again.. and again..

Laurence Dodd
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[Fabricio Chamon]

Protip: have 2 maya sessions opened -> Begin working on one of them -> wait for the crash -> kill on task manager -> fire up another session -> continue work on already opened session while new one loads -> no wait 3 minutes for maya to start -> happyness (?)

This is how I work in maya EVERYTIME.

I’m lucky enough to be almost 100% houdini these days. =)

[Mirko Jankovic]

hahah that is exactly what I did!! having two maya running :))

damn...

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[Artur W]

What I gathered about Maya so far is that every function in one way or another leads to a hotkey Alt+F4 (the fast option).

Also, when it crashes, I noticed it is faster to kill the process then wait for all the notifiers to appear (your maya crashed window x 9000). A tip for you'all.

Artur

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[Artur W]

Please, that's the first thing you do with maya. DOH!.

Artur

;)

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[Pierre Schiller]

Mirko and Fabricio are nailing it with Maya. Can't wait to get access to the blog and start posting. 

I still can't believe how on all of these years speedy service packs do nothing but unstabilize other libraries for render.

This happened way back when SI2014 came out and a year later they eol. Then Maya mentioned MR will be no more, and I didn't read the *warning sign: install at your own risk* Well it happened that I installed maya 2016 version with no Mental Ray and the little brat went on so far as to corrupt SI mental ray library. I was in shock because I had to cross product renders at the time and now I had a 30 day trial that messed my MR libraries and SI will not respond to render anymore. Had to delete everything AD related even from the regedit entrances. Then reinstall SI only. I had to run MA on a virtual machine. That was the only way to cage that beast...

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[Andy Chlupka (Goehler)]

To be totally honest, that’s how I had to deal with Softimage/Arnold. I would sometimes only open a scene and have it crash for no reason. I could never say Softimage had been a robust experience. After moving to Houdini, it took almost two years to get rid of my fear to click the wrong thing to provoke a crash. That’s how unstable Soft was for me. Luckily I have found peace in Houdini.

Dont bash to hard on crashes, I’ve felt them and they left deep scars.

Andy

On Mar 30, 2018, at 3:19 PM, Fabricio Chamon <xsim...@gmail.com> wrote:

Protip: have 2 maya sessions opened -> Begin working on one of them -> wait for the crash -> kill on task manager -> fire up another session -> continue work on already opened session while new one loads -> no wait 3 minutes for maya to start -> happyness (?)

This is how I work in maya EVERYTIME.

I’m lucky enough to be almost 100% houdini these days. =)

Em sex, 30 de mar de 2018 às 09:15, Mirko Jankovic <mirkoj....@gmail.com> escreveu:

How do you know when someone is working with maya?

He have his task manager opened non stop for killing the process when it becomes non responsive...again.. and again..

<Capture.JPG>

[Fabricio Chamon]

Ok I have to agree with you Andy, I also had many crashes with SI.. no dcc is 100% reliable, that is the nature of software. For me the big difference is: I knew where to expect a crash in softmage.. like “move operators up and down the stack=danger.. have a boolean going on? Danger times 10000”..But in maya it happens out of the blue sometimes.. also the hypershade have its own thing and hangs for good 5-10 seconds before opening, even without shader thumbnails.

In the meantime houdini is working beautifully here, and handles the most absurd node combinations I make when mistyping node names... only thing that crashes houdini is the polydoctor sop

[Ben Barker]

This thread is hilarious. 

I just wanted to say that if you are having really bad scene load times in Maya and it's not file I/O (perhaps from references) then it's often long init times for certain nodes. Thinking of the wrap deformer specifically. Wraps init on scene load and they can be terrible on dense meshes. It was so bad on one scene at Blizzard that Cameron Chrisman completely rewrote a wrap deformer that stored the bind information in an attribute instead. Our scenes were 1GB but they loaded fast. We still had to eat the long bind time but only once.

You can try decreasing wrap distance to as small as possible as a workaround or even go low res->bones riding on surface -> skin deformer or some other such hackery. Maya.

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[Enter Reality]

I'm still completely amazed about how many crashes there will be in a single session...I mean...especially during weight paint...its to a point that is almost funny to me.

Now I'm using a technique I used while playing Tomb Raider on PC long time ago, meaning that instead of the F5 quicksave, I just Ctrl+s every 5-10 minutes, but sometimes I still forgot to do that, and I loose 20-30 minutes of work, because the crashes happen that often.

I still rely on Maya for rigging and now also modeling, but its a real nightmare every time I open Maya

[Pierre Schiller]

Oh I guess I have something to thank Maya for.... I relate to that "ctrl+s" every 2 or 3 minutes symptom. Yes, specially with buggy Blender (pre-alpha-dev-highly-experimental-nightly) builds I get on the repository, and still deliver a full work saved session because of the "maya symptom" (saving constantly due to a nervous breakdown of crash session-loss of work).

Never thought of this, but "THANKS maya".

 www.3dcinetv.com - 3D.VFX.Post - Click on socials:

[Christoph Zippel]

It works best if you leave it closed!

[Jordi Bares]

We humans are resilient to pain, that is certainly true.

jb

[David Saber]

Maya is full of surprises. Here's my story today:
I wanted to create a wavy surface so I got a polygon grid and selected
every second points and translated in Y.
Then I applied a smooth. The result was bizarre: only the edges were
wavy shaped, the rest was flat. I was not happy so I undid the smooth
with CTRL+Z.
I should have recovered my grid with half of its points translated in
Y... But no. Some border vertices were translated in Y, all the rest of
the grid was flat... And of course my selection was lost.
I tried this a second time to be sure I didn't lose my mind and I got
the same result.
Great job Maya.
So I did in in XSI and exported an obj.
David

[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

Replicating this as described I got the results I think you were expecting. I've been unable to repeat the anomoly.

And did the "wave" occur on the Z & X axis or just Z or X? I'd also be curious if you had any kind of parenting relationship that might have affected the smooth direction. But I can't imagine what.

Did you perform this in a clean scene? What version of maya?

Joey

-----Original Message-----
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of David Saber
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 9:55 AM
To: soft...@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: The Maya Chronicles - or how retarded that software is...

[David Saber]

Okay I re did it again on a new blank scene. New polygon plane, then I
translated half of the points in the Y axis again like last time. The
smooth was working well, the wavy shape was very nice and CTRL+Z gave me
back the geo I had before the smooth. So I must partly apologize to Mr Maya!

On the other scene I had a FBX import that perhaps change the properties
of the whole scene? Anyway I believe what I'm trying to do should work
also on a scene with an FBX import.

David

[Artur W]

Ctrl+Z doesn't work as you might expect in Maya.

It seems that 1 click or 1 option change may produce series of commands and Ctrl+Z reverts only the last one, so in consequence you may have to do it several times to go back where you need.

Artur 

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[Stefan Kubicek]

To be fair, that was the case in Softimage too occasionally.
E.g. changing a color swatch resulted in 3 "Set Value" commands issued,
one for each color component, which had to be undone separately.

On 18.04.2018 11:24, Artur W wrote:
> Ctrl+Z doesn't work as you might expect in Maya.
> It seems that 1 click or 1 option change may produce series of commands
> and Ctrl+Z reverts only the last one, so in consequence you may have to
> do it several times to go back where you need.
>
> Artur
>
>
> 2018-04-18 11:10 GMT+02:00 David Saber <david...@sfr.fr

> <mailto:david...@sfr.fr>>:

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[Ponthieux, Joseph G. (LARC-E1A)[LITES II]]

Normally I'd say try deleting history on the object, or to try freezing/resetting the transforms. But if it is occurring to a new poly grid in the scene with your FBX import it would seem there is something else much more complex going on.

[Mirko Jankovic]

What idiot figured that it is great idea to have only VP2.0 and then loading scenes takes minutes longer stuck at retarded VP2.0 processing and processing and processing... I hate maya.. so deeply, so much....

--

Mirko Jankovic

http://www.cgfolio.com/mirko-jankovic

Need to find freelancers fast?

www.cgfolio.com

Need some help with rendering an Redshift project?

http://www.gpuoven.com/

[Tim Leydecker]

http://help.autodesk.com/view/MAYAUL/2018/ENU/?caas=caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/Restore-the-Legacy-Viewport-in-Maya-2018.html

Issue:
By default, the Legacy Viewport is not available in Maya 2018.

Solution:
Activate the Legacy Viewport in the Maya.env for Maya 2018:

1. Documents > Maya > 2018 
2. Open the Maya.env file in Notepad (it will be empty)
3. Paste the following Environment Variable into the document: 
   • 
     
     MAYA_ENABLE_LEGACY_VIEWPORT=1
     
     
     
     

Cheers,


tim

[mirkoj.animator]

Thank you!!!!!!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

[Tenshi]

I just don't understand. This is like the Ufo thing, we know they're out there but most people can't recognized or willing to understand there's a possibility.

So why we all know Maya sucks and the so called "industry" keep accepting this weird deform creature?

Why Softimage.. why..

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 05:53 mirkoj.animator <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you!!!!!!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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[Jordi Bares]

When you don’t know any better...

jb

[pedro santos]

While I have many Animation jobs closed to me, since I never got into Maya to be "my new home", you guys sure don't convince me of my wrong ways and give in :)

Cheers
P

On 11 June 2018 at 22:58, Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you don’t know any better...

jb

On 11 Jun 2018, at 18:53, Tenshi <tens...@gmail.com> wrote:

I just don't understand. This is like the Ufo thing, we know they're out there but most people can't recognized or willing to understand there's a possibility.

So why we all know Maya sucks and the so called "industry" keep accepting this weird deform creature?

Why Softimage.. why..

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018, 05:53 mirkoj.animator <mirkoj....@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you!!!!!!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

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--

---

Pedro Alpiarça dos Santos           probiner.xyz

[Anto Matkovic]

Well, by looking at Maya default hotkeys, these typical MMB+ctrl+ hold+ something,  I'd say this must be done for someone with eight or more tentacles :)

Generally, I think this analogy has sense - certain extraterrestrial solution must be great for crew of Borg cube, but... not really for humans, where 'humans' in this case are 3d generalists, as almost not existent category in these big space ships.

There so so many examples of poor maneuverability of Maya when it comes to frequent switching between modeler - animator - lighter whatever role, from practically non existing modifier stack, long and horrible list of inconsistencies in way how it deals with deformers, so on and so on.  All that is probably not a problem for strong infrastructures of big ships, able to build the alternatives, but, once this software is out of the regenerating chamber, it simply can not compete to any other 3d as generalist's app, except in rigging and direct animation, that's it.

And all that won't be problem by self, humans should be free to use it or not, just like with other extraterrestrial software, Houdini or else. But.... in last years, it was owner of Borg cube who disabled Softimage, forcing people toward Maya, in same time they did little or irrelevant to humanize it.

Extraterrestrials do not force humans to pay subscription :) - at least not for now.

---

From: Tenshi <tens...@gmail.com>
To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 7:53 PM

Subject: Re: The Maya Chronicles - or how retarded that software is...

[Anto Matkovic]

With your interests and knowledge (as far as I know from forums), I'd say you *should* go in. However it's a bit complex story, while core (that is, transform nodes and such) evaluates great,  perhaps everything on top of that is an unseen, inconsistent madness, which forces solutions you don't want and don't want to display what you really need, for example, what Morthen reported in another thread, 'real global' position which could be screwed up in somewhat typical Maya fashion, of around five or so conditions together, but it could be screwed up.

As far as I know, criticism is traditional in huge communities of Maya and Max, also is great for learning, it makes easy to figure out what is a crap that don't deserve (too much) of learning. For comparison, with Houdini is harder to go 'in', because users still have tendency to defend everything in that software.

---

From: pedro santos <prob...@gmail.com>

To: Official Softimage Users Mailing List. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xsi_list <soft...@listproc.autodesk.com>

Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 4:58 PM

Subject: Re: The Maya Chronicles - or how retarded that software is...

While I have many Animation jobs closed to me, since I never got into Maya to be "my new home", you guys sure don't convince me of my wrong ways and give in :)

Cheers
P

On 11 June 2018 at 22:58, Jordi Bares <jordi...@gmail.com> wrote:

When you don’t know any better...

jb

[Pierre Schiller]

@Pedro Santos, most of us stand with that choice: not taking Maya / being reject by studio.

The day EOL was announced for SI, I decided that -if I was to work for Maya- it would only be as an animator.

Guess what? Even the timeline has this clumsy workflow to make it scrub/play and, to do it often: crashes the software.

Every area in Maya is designed so the challenges are not only critical (because of time constraints) but rather puts these

extra "worry/pressure/stress" layers on top of what´s supposed to be a "workflow". That software is DESIGNED to be that way.

It was said on this list, and I agree with it to this day: "In Maya you work-around, in Softimage you WORK".

Regards.

 www.3dcinetv.com - 3D.VFX.Post - Click on socials:

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[coto radu]

Hey guys,

I agree. We don't even have to go as far as animation/weight mapping etc. Look at something as basic as modeling, I can't be quick and  efficient with that petty toolset Maya has to offer, no matter what. Uv is a nightmare, everything is deprecated, badly implemented, unstable and badly designed.

In the mean while I continue to develop for SI. 

Cheers

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 at 20:43, Pierre Schiller

<activemoti...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Pierre Schiller]

Develop? you mean: assets? or .addons? :D

 www.3dcinetv.com - 3D.VFX.Post - Click on socials:

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 3:49 PM, coto radu <xra...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey guys,

I agree. We don't even have to go as far as animation/weight mapping etc. Look at something as basic as modeling, I can't be quick and  efficient with that petty toolset Maya has to offer, no matter what. Uv is a nightmare, everything is deprecated, badly implemented, unstable and badly designed.

In the mean while I continue to develop for SI. 

Cheers

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Tue, 12 Jun 2018 at 20:43, Pierre Schiller

<activemotionpictures@gmail.com> wrote:

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