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It's my understanding that 95% of 3D users in the movie industry uses Maya + Renderman. If this is indeed true, then it's logical for AD to put energy there instead of trying to get those users to use XSI, thus also forcing a change in pipelines.
It's not like companies were
particularly forced into Nuke though (hell, some places are still to finish the
transition!), people went because it was better and people learnt it because it
was better. Whether Soft is as far ahead of Maya/Max as Nuke was to Shake is a
bit more debatable. Still, the winds seem to be blowing in the direction
of more diverse, specialist software so Soft could well find it's place in that
It’s not an issue about creating art, Steven. The issue is about retaining the rank and standard of living in the work force.
There is a very real argument if somebody takes Softimage away our net worth goes down considerably because our skills are specialized that we can’t just plug into another work environment without considerable retraining. It’s primarily the employer’s perception/opinion that knowledge is not fully portable, and therefore whatever applicable knowledge you have doesn’t compare with somebody who is already well versed in the applications they already use. I don’t agree with it as I feel my 20 years of production knowledge and experience with Softimage is more valuable and applicable than some college kid who only took a few semesters of Maya, but that’s the way it is.
Heck, even within my own studio walls I fight this perception as I’m labeled a Softimage expert, but if a topic of discussion comes up that is not directly softimage related, my opinions aren’t given the weight even when I know more about the subject than the other people in the room. They don’t consider my computer science background or that I was formerly an animator (traditional cel and 3D).
Perception is a powerful force.
do you know about andy goldsworthy? http://www.ucblueash.edu/artcomm/web/w2005_2006/maria_Goldsworthy/TEST/index.html
> Please AD, bring Soft back to a decent and fair exposure, at least
> closer to the one it deserves or sell it back if you're embarrassed.
> I'm sure there's a lot of interested and rich people who would buy it,
> you'll make money out of your 2008 deal and you'll make anger go down.
That, I think, will never happen, because AD did not buy Softimage for XSI but for the patents Softimage had over its technologies. Reselling Softimage would mean reselling the patents as well, and that is precisely what they want to avoid. Buying as much patents as possible is the only way to really shadow competitors.
> Don't wait until someone comes up with a high performance DCC-like suite made with ../..
That's why I keep on saying the 'true' solution will have to come up from the Open Source community. This is the only valid path. But it will take some time.
guy rabiller | raa.tel | radfac founder/ceo
tel: 0977 195 006 | mob: 0675 183 146 | fax: 0972 288 293
Stefan, there's a lot of unemployed Soft guys down here in Paris, everybody has to move to London to be able to use a skillset that is over 10 years worth for most of them.Most of Soft companies over here switched ( painfully for some of them ) to Maya because AD made Soft literally disappear from their catalog.Financial people usually don't have a clue and don't really care of how advanced a software is compared to another.What do you think they tend to decide when it comes to licensing and support renewal for an over 2k/seat software solution that is not even mentioned by the res-sellers because they are heavily advised not to ?Over here we don't have much of a choice anymore, we have to go and find a job somewhere else or get used to workaround maya all day long.Some of us can do it because it pays the bills, some others cannot. In any case, passion tends to vanish.I've personally been around for way over a decade now and I can tell there's always been some competition and technological choice, except from the past 4 years.We had Explore vs Soft|3D, Explore vs Power Animator, Soft vs Maya, Max vs Maya, XSI vs Maya, Maya&Max vs XSI.. and then the 2008 deal went down.The mainstream CG world got paralyzed since then and reached a uniformity I still cannot imagine happening in the 2010's.Even Maya people are not happy with this situation, more and more of them start thinking that ever since AD bought their main competitor, big DCCs have reached a huge stagnation that benefits to no one, not even AD.Please AD, bring Soft back to a decent and fair exposure, at least closer to the one it deserves or sell it back if you're embarrassed.I'm sure there's a lot of interested and rich people who would buy it, you'll make money out of your 2008 deal and you'll make anger go down.Everybody knows ICE integration in Maya would have been done already if it was as easy as you guys thought when you closed the deal with Avid.Just get inspired by the concept, help yourself with the code, hook it up to your weapon and get ours back to light. Just get the party started again, I'm sure you'll feel unexpected benefits.Give back the choice of interaction model to people. This is more the center of the debate than the actual technological value.Both packages have their strengths and weaknesses but please let people choose, a lot of them are artists, not only technicians.Don't wait until someone comes up with a high performance DCC-like suite made with Fabric Engine or whatever, because a this point, more people than you expect will jump on it and the downhill might be steep.Maya might end up just as a keyframing tool that allows a producer to line up 50 animators on the spot without any training costs. All the TDs that have been building it's worth for years deserves better.
I don't know, it used to be something those marketing/pr people stay up at night and come up with those nifty slogans.I can just say that Softimage would probably replace 80% of the so called "pipeline tools" that are created to work around the software. Just put any Maya artist infront of a vanilla install of Maya and they will scream... :)ICE would probably wipe out 90% of the in-house scripts that are created. And instead they would have a better modal/nodal system to work with.But.... the main problem these days is probably not the technology, it's finding the people who can do it. Not a lot of Softimage artists that are highlevel TD's around. Most of them are on this list, and they already have a job :)regardsstefan andersson
"I don't want Softimage to be a good companion to Maya&3dsmax, I want Softimage to kick their ass and make all users leave their software and use Softimage instead!!"
This is a perfectly valid point, however playing a neutral card for a moment and to just throw something out there....how do we do that?
There are plenty of Maya/Max based studios out there, skilled up, decent pipeline with some tech & tools, and producing very good and capable work for years, how would you get them to then rip all that up and go with Softimage?
I'm not sure it's that easy, expanding the capability of a pipeline by adding another solution/software is one thing, but a complete replacement/retool of your core 3D app? That's a whole bigger thing altogether.
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leoung O'Young
Sent: 10 September 2012 20:35
Subject: Re: In case you missed it..
Stefan, I totally agreed with you rant....hopefully we are wrong
We are sitting on the fence about upgrading our licenses, at this point we will have to take a hard long look.
We have been with Softimage/XSI since the early '90..
On 9/10/2012 3:07 PM, Stefan Andersson wrote:
Just to throw some more gasoline onto the fire.
So the value to a 3dsmax/Maya user would be to use Softimage as a particle plugin. Everything else their respective Software is good at.
I know you don't agree with them Graham, and it's not you who "wrote/made" this :) It's been said over and over again on this list, it doesn't seem that Autodesk cares about Softimage.
And it's for that reason alone that I don't recommend anyone (anymore) to buy or learn Softimage. Autodesk representatives on this list is trying to assure us, but apparently those people have absolutely NO contact with the Marketing/PR people. It's not that we have been asking for much, but the way they market Softimage and the way new users and studios look at Softimage... well... you get my point.
I don't want Softimage to be a good companion to Maya&3dsmax, I want Softimage to kick their ass and make all users leave their software and use Softimage instead!! But that is not in Autodesk view a good thing. And for this reason I think Autodesk is really bad for Softimage.
Why is attitude and "kick butt" mentality a bad thing? it's what keeps a lot of us going and improving our-self. It's what makes us trying to reach for those extra 10% in a production.
Am I pissed at Autodesk? you bet you sweet ass I am. I spent years behind Softimage and got companies to buy the software that were Maya based, and really really tried to get it to work...
With ICE I had big hopes. But... Autodesk had little incentive to kick Maya/3dsmax out the window. They made Softimage into a particle plugin.
So what happens now?
I know it's pointless rant, and it just adds fuel to the fire. But it's difficult to talk about something positive when it comes to Softimage. It's like having a Formula One car, but you live in the country side and no one understands why you have it.
Sorry for the rant everyone.
On Mon, Sep 10, 2012 at 4:36 PM, Graham Bell <Graha...@autodesk.com<mailto:Graha...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
Perhaps worth pointing out that this is a Entertainment Creation 'Suites' magazine and of the course the two main flavours (Ultimate aside) for the Suites are Maya and Max. And therefore the three packages shown in the image are all including in the Maya/Max Suites, hence the reason for trying to show their value to those respective users.
From: softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com<mailto:softimag...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Paul Griswold
Sent: 10 September 2012 15:08
Subject: In case you missed it..
This is the kind of stuff that makes me really dislike Autodesk: http://yfrog.com/h0t6exxtj
I'm glad to know Softimage is a particle system that has single-step interoperability with the apps in the "Areas of Excellence" (Max and Maya).
stefan andersson - digital janitor - http://sanders3d.wordpress.com
Depending on your job that can be doable or not.
There are many more factors at stake other than what software you use. You have to factor in age, family situation, and so on. The older you get, the more difficult it is to get another job because your salary requirements are higher. If your expertise is obsoleted, not too many companies are going to take on an expensive veteran with less applied knowledge than a youngster at half the cost who is fresh legs in the subject.
In my case I’ll probably have to go into some other discipline to abstract myself away from the problem. Not unheard of, but it’s not trivial to start a new career either.
i get that, might have missed the context which eric was response was too, but i still think its possible to build knowledge in an app and translate it and at least return to your prior rank and earnings after a bit of time. but i think i am diverging from the points trying to be made here, if autodesk could better market softimage and actually vastly improve its market share (ignoring if thats even in their interest to do) you wouldn't have to learn a new package :)