Fwd: Treecycle electrics
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Ricky Ng-Adam
Dec 7, 2011, 2:03:08 AM12/7/11
to xinch...@googlegroups.com
Hello!
Anyone interested in taking this (paid) project up? I think it's pretty exciting and interesting! You can work out of XinCheJian on it.
--
伍思力 | Ricky Ng-Adam | http://xinchejian.com | (+86) 186-2126-2521
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: chris trees <chris...@mgt-engineering.com>
Subject: Treecycle electrics
To: rng...@gmail.com
From: chris trees <chris...@mgt-engineering.com>
Subject: Treecycle electrics
To: rng...@gmail.com
Hi there Ricky,
Please find attached the spec that you need to offer my job as a project in Hackerspace. I've sent as .jpgs as well as .pptx in case you are on old windows.
Kind regards
--
--
Chris Trees
Director
MGT Engineering Ltd
Mobile: 0086 15900972060
伍思力 | Ricky Ng-Adam | http://xinchejian.com | (+86) 186-2126-2521
ourstuff888
Dec 10, 2011, 10:54:21 PM12/10/11
to xinch...@googlegroups.com, chris...@mgt-engineering.com
I am interested in helping with this project and was wondering if
anyone else wanted to join in.
There are a lot of challenges in this project, as in addition to creating the hardware it all has to be polished off as a "pretty" product to match the treecycle and weatherproofed to IP6.
One way to approach this would be a teams approach where say there is a team for the:
I have been looking over the information supplied, which is quite interesting and gives a good idea of what they want, but, too be blunt, is a typical end user trying to design the end system, rather than actually say what they want. There is a lot of missing information and I am pretty sure that "we - the experts" can suggest better hardware for some items (lower power, brighter and better visibility in sunlight, ....), so there also needs to be a fair bit of interaction with the company.
This is a paid position - so that could be great to get some hardware for Xinchejian.
Also if the company agreed, this project could be advertised as a worldwide challenge to really bring in lots of attention and maybe even MORE features......
My very rough brain dump notes from looking "specification/requirements" are included below. Note this does not include ANY comment on the hardware components or system design it is focussed more on the requirements and "project management side".
I am guessing they are keen to get going on this - so please respond quickly - even with a maybe interested :)
Spencer
BRAIN DUMP FOLLOWS:
-enclosures ip... - but LOOK, quality - need to blend in, or hidden in that big box under the seat?
- ease of access
- MOUNTIGN needs
- waterproof / IPS usb conenctors etc??
- wiring & wiring harness/ties.....
- aesthetics/appearance - wiring, external components, enclosures colour, styling, .....)
testing, and acceptance testing(and sign off)?????
crowd source the design & build (wiht one person signed/responsible?)
+++ advertise, use as feature/publicity - potentially massive
if crowd sourcings - then payment goes to???
-rewards (pcb's kits, parts, hosting, ???)
pcb sizes - ie free eagle vs $$$
or maybe THIS COMMERCIAL SO should pay $$$ for eagle ANY WAY - or sue Kicad or.....
******??seen some other bicycle projects/large site???
There is nothing about target cost......
It is "easy" to design without considering cost!
It is "easy" to design without considering manufacturing!!!!!
WHo manufactures??
expected qty 1, 10, 100, 1000+?
Who supplies and who pays for dev, prototype, pre-production .... hardware
Who supplies one (more - if many models) treecycle - to allow dev, test, integration......
any deadlines, milestone dates?
custom or off-the-shelf electronics?
??competition - public, or amongst dif (global) teams
?? outline intent in email - if interested meet and discuss??
they agree design, doc, RIGHTS all open source
exact licence to be agreed
depending on licence, Does not stop commercial $$$ being made from support, manufacturing, enhancements, new versions, ......
Examples
?? as additional stage 0, or just pre-"contract" - refine the requirements (not specs the req!!!!)
eg just some missing info:
Speed/distance travelled display - size, colour, number of digits, update rate, accuracy
responsibilities, $, manufacture, installation, rights (ownership/licenceing)
requirement to formally meet standards
Suggest a gated phased approach to allow assessment of progress and if required stopping this process.
- first = design (current design specs raise a number of questions and missing information)
- run in close co-operation with TC nominated personell
- essentially controlled brainstorming - potentialy on worldwide basis
- potential spin-off projects that may or may not involve TC (if open source...)
- 2nd = protyping... - but don't be surprised if some people/groups start this earlier
- 3rd ... really depends on discussions & agreed responsibilities
Their risks from this process:
- delays
- poor/no outcome, but more likely have a reasonable prototype at minimal cost.
- low expenditure, or zero if they do not fund dev and prototype hardware.
Possible good outcomes
- massive publicity
- incredably excellent product - used world wide
- treecycle becomes extremely widely known
- $ from hardware sales and support
Ricky - cc proposal to org....
they want a propsoal
??require a draft design & pricing????
Promote via: Xinchejian (&/or UD) DP, hackerspace.org, ada, spark, .....
??use launchpad
??? does system have to formally pass/certify meeting any standards, or be formally accredited?
If so, list all, provide copies of ALL relevant standards and document who is responsible for delivering test system(s), and who bears all costs.....
Any preferred/mandatory Test center(s)???
reliability - MTBF....
liability
??teams - eg display elec, bat/charging, enclosures+wiring&haness
+ sub-teams??
Expected Life of backup battery - 1, 2, 5, ? years
What usage and charging scenarios?
8 hours supply to all.... when batery new, fully charged. What if after 1 year only 6 hours - then no longer meet standard!
============================================================================================
This is the "spec/req" with some added notes/questions:
The TREECYCLE is produced in a number of versions, both electrically assisted and human powered only.
??what are the dieeferences - eg impact on wiring runs, fixing, enclosures, mounting space, .......
The basic electrical system is common to all models, having its own generator and battery back-up.
This allows the TREECYCLE to comply with German standards, which require the lighting system of an electrically assisted bicycle to be separate from the electrical assistance system, so ensuring that for safety reasons the supply to the lights is always guaranteed, even if for some reason power is not available from the large traction battery.
The system specification also allows for the use of standard lights, where these are required, also to meet different local standards in the markets where the TREECYCLE may be sold.
??replace the default lights or in addition?
Schematic system diagram
Brake switches 2 into one from Tektro levers
Rotation sensor for Distance and speed calculation
??is it mandatory to use rotation sensor, can alternate method be used? (Gyroscope, Acceleratometor, GPS, ...)
Display, docking station for location enabled cellphone, switch for hazard warning (all indicators together), general on/off ( key switch), LEDs for indicator function (2 yellow), lights on (1 blue) brake lights on (1 red)
??LEDs mandatory - eg are they suitable for visibility in full sunlight?
use of surounds to shade display lights
phone docking station - is this responsbility of this design team?
what phone
IP6 rating????????
physical stability of mount - can the phone bounce out.....
what is phone doing in the dock - charging - or can it supply the distance/speed info for display (on phone, or ext display?)
on/off key - does this ONLY include this system - ie NOT the electrically assisted system?
**Nothing is said about the Speed/distance travelled display - size, colour, number of digits, update rate, accuracy
both speed dist alwasy displayed, or only one, and can select oter as desired?
Handlebar switch cluster left/right Indicator switch horn button front/rear lights switch
Central control box with back-up battery pack, external power supply connections for charging and optional input from traction battery
Headlights 2??
Rearlights 2?
Indicators 4
Brakelights 2
Left rear wheel shaft mounted 3 phase generator Sunup DS1-F with rectified output 3-12volts depending on wheel rotation speed
Electrical Specifications
Main input from generator 3-12 volts DC
( wheel rotation speed varies from 40-240 r.p.m, equivalent to 5- 30km/hour)
Optional input from electrical assistance battery 36-50 volts DC
Optional input from photovoltaic cells 6-50 volts DC
Battery back-up duration for lights in worst case 8 hours
(no traction battery or generator input, head, rear and four indicator lights all operating, all displays functional, discharged cell-phone connected)
Stored data memory duration 1 year
( trip/ total mileage any settings data)
Output for cell-phone via USB, mini USB and micro USB ports 5 volts DC
Output for standard commercial lights 6 volts DC
Signal input for speed/distance travelled calculation/display Supplier to confirm
Functional requirements/characteristics
Commercially available front and rear lamps to european standards front: - Lumotec Lyt 25 lux x2, rear: - toplight mini x 2 http://www.bumm.de or equivalent.
Waterproof LED lamp units to IP65 for brake and indicator lights
Generator Sunup DS1-F http://www.sunupeco.com/SunUpEco/Products.html, or equivalent
Enclosures to be waterproof to IP65
Connections to be made between enclosures via waterproof plug/sockets
Non-standard lights may be on sealed/moulded harness as a single complete set
Speed/distance travelled display to be visible day and night
============================================================================================
There are a lot of challenges in this project, as in addition to creating the hardware it all has to be polished off as a "pretty" product to match the treecycle and weatherproofed to IP6.
One way to approach this would be a teams approach where say there is a team for the:
- design (or split into each team below)
- display electronics,
- battery/charging
- ip6 enclosures+wiring&harness
I have been looking over the information supplied, which is quite interesting and gives a good idea of what they want, but, too be blunt, is a typical end user trying to design the end system, rather than actually say what they want. There is a lot of missing information and I am pretty sure that "we - the experts" can suggest better hardware for some items (lower power, brighter and better visibility in sunlight, ....), so there also needs to be a fair bit of interaction with the company.
This is a paid position - so that could be great to get some hardware for Xinchejian.
Also if the company agreed, this project could be advertised as a worldwide challenge to really bring in lots of attention and maybe even MORE features......
My very rough brain dump notes from looking "specification/requirements" are included below. Note this does not include ANY comment on the hardware components or system design it is focussed more on the requirements and "project management side".
I am guessing they are keen to get going on this - so please respond quickly - even with a maybe interested :)
Spencer
BRAIN DUMP FOLLOWS:
-enclosures ip... - but LOOK, quality - need to blend in, or hidden in that big box under the seat?
- ease of access
- MOUNTIGN needs
- waterproof / IPS usb conenctors etc??
- wiring & wiring harness/ties.....
- aesthetics/appearance - wiring, external components, enclosures colour, styling, .....)
testing, and acceptance testing(and sign off)?????
crowd source the design & build (wiht one person signed/responsible?)
+++ advertise, use as feature/publicity - potentially massive
if crowd sourcings - then payment goes to???
-rewards (pcb's kits, parts, hosting, ???)
pcb sizes - ie free eagle vs $$$
or maybe THIS COMMERCIAL SO should pay $$$ for eagle ANY WAY - or sue Kicad or.....
******??seen some other bicycle projects/large site???
There is nothing about target cost......
It is "easy" to design without considering cost!
It is "easy" to design without considering manufacturing!!!!!
WHo manufactures??
expected qty 1, 10, 100, 1000+?
Who supplies and who pays for dev, prototype, pre-production .... hardware
Who supplies one (more - if many models) treecycle - to allow dev, test, integration......
any deadlines, milestone dates?
custom or off-the-shelf electronics?
??competition - public, or amongst dif (global) teams
?? outline intent in email - if interested meet and discuss??
they agree design, doc, RIGHTS all open source
exact licence to be agreed
depending on licence, Does not stop commercial $$$ being made from support, manufacturing, enhancements, new versions, ......
Examples
?? as additional stage 0, or just pre-"contract" - refine the requirements (not specs the req!!!!)
eg just some missing info:
Speed/distance travelled display - size, colour, number of digits, update rate, accuracy
responsibilities, $, manufacture, installation, rights (ownership/licenceing)
requirement to formally meet standards
Suggest a gated phased approach to allow assessment of progress and if required stopping this process.
- first = design (current design specs raise a number of questions and missing information)
- run in close co-operation with TC nominated personell
- essentially controlled brainstorming - potentialy on worldwide basis
- potential spin-off projects that may or may not involve TC (if open source...)
- 2nd = protyping... - but don't be surprised if some people/groups start this earlier
- 3rd ... really depends on discussions & agreed responsibilities
Their risks from this process:
- delays
- poor/no outcome, but more likely have a reasonable prototype at minimal cost.
- low expenditure, or zero if they do not fund dev and prototype hardware.
Possible good outcomes
- massive publicity
- incredably excellent product - used world wide
- treecycle becomes extremely widely known
- $ from hardware sales and support
Ricky - cc proposal to org....
they want a propsoal
??require a draft design & pricing????
Promote via: Xinchejian (&/or UD) DP, hackerspace.org, ada, spark, .....
??use launchpad
??? does system have to formally pass/certify meeting any standards, or be formally accredited?
If so, list all, provide copies of ALL relevant standards and document who is responsible for delivering test system(s), and who bears all costs.....
Any preferred/mandatory Test center(s)???
reliability - MTBF....
liability
??teams - eg display elec, bat/charging, enclosures+wiring&haness
+ sub-teams??
Expected Life of backup battery - 1, 2, 5, ? years
What usage and charging scenarios?
8 hours supply to all.... when batery new, fully charged. What if after 1 year only 6 hours - then no longer meet standard!
============================================================================================
This is the "spec/req" with some added notes/questions:
The TREECYCLE is produced in a number of versions, both electrically assisted and human powered only.
??what are the dieeferences - eg impact on wiring runs, fixing, enclosures, mounting space, .......
The basic electrical system is common to all models, having its own generator and battery back-up.
This allows the TREECYCLE to comply with German standards, which require the lighting system of an electrically assisted bicycle to be separate from the electrical assistance system, so ensuring that for safety reasons the supply to the lights is always guaranteed, even if for some reason power is not available from the large traction battery.
The system specification also allows for the use of standard lights, where these are required, also to meet different local standards in the markets where the TREECYCLE may be sold.
??replace the default lights or in addition?
Schematic system diagram
Brake switches 2 into one from Tektro levers
Rotation sensor for Distance and speed calculation
??is it mandatory to use rotation sensor, can alternate method be used? (Gyroscope, Acceleratometor, GPS, ...)
Display, docking station for location enabled cellphone, switch for hazard warning (all indicators together), general on/off ( key switch), LEDs for indicator function (2 yellow), lights on (1 blue) brake lights on (1 red)
??LEDs mandatory - eg are they suitable for visibility in full sunlight?
use of surounds to shade display lights
phone docking station - is this responsbility of this design team?
what phone
IP6 rating????????
physical stability of mount - can the phone bounce out.....
what is phone doing in the dock - charging - or can it supply the distance/speed info for display (on phone, or ext display?)
on/off key - does this ONLY include this system - ie NOT the electrically assisted system?
**Nothing is said about the Speed/distance travelled display - size, colour, number of digits, update rate, accuracy
both speed dist alwasy displayed, or only one, and can select oter as desired?
Handlebar switch cluster left/right Indicator switch horn button front/rear lights switch
Central control box with back-up battery pack, external power supply connections for charging and optional input from traction battery
Headlights 2??
Rearlights 2?
Indicators 4
Brakelights 2
Left rear wheel shaft mounted 3 phase generator Sunup DS1-F with rectified output 3-12volts depending on wheel rotation speed
Electrical Specifications
Main input from generator 3-12 volts DC
( wheel rotation speed varies from 40-240 r.p.m, equivalent to 5- 30km/hour)
Optional input from electrical assistance battery 36-50 volts DC
Optional input from photovoltaic cells 6-50 volts DC
Battery back-up duration for lights in worst case 8 hours
(no traction battery or generator input, head, rear and four indicator lights all operating, all displays functional, discharged cell-phone connected)
Stored data memory duration 1 year
( trip/ total mileage any settings data)
Output for cell-phone via USB, mini USB and micro USB ports 5 volts DC
Output for standard commercial lights 6 volts DC
Signal input for speed/distance travelled calculation/display Supplier to confirm
Functional requirements/characteristics
Commercially available front and rear lamps to european standards front: - Lumotec Lyt 25 lux x2, rear: - toplight mini x 2 http://www.bumm.de or equivalent.
Waterproof LED lamp units to IP65 for brake and indicator lights
Generator Sunup DS1-F http://www.sunupeco.com/SunUpEco/Products.html, or equivalent
Enclosures to be waterproof to IP65
Connections to be made between enclosures via waterproof plug/sockets
Non-standard lights may be on sealed/moulded harness as a single complete set
Speed/distance travelled display to be visible day and night
============================================================================================
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