Re: Ctwm startup advice

[Anthony Thyssen]

By the way.... wmctrl has a -c option to 'delete windows'  as if you pressed the 'x' button.

I did not find this feature in xdotool,  or xwit

though xdotool does have a kill or 'destory window' function,   xwit had neither.

I am CC'ing this to the xdotool mailing list as it has active developement, and I am suprised it does not have this 'delete' or close window function.

  Anthony Thyssen ( System Programmer )    <A.Th...@griffith.edu.au>

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Unix is a very user-friendly system --

     it's just not promiscuous about which user it's friendly with.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Anthony's Castle     http://www.ict.griffith.edu.au/anthony/

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 11:19 AM, Anthony Thyssen <a.th...@griffith.edu.au> wrote:

First the DSA key no longer working...   

Yes I had that problem too.  Basically DSA (ssh-dss) is now considered too weak.

You can enable it on the new machine.  or you can just create new keys (such as ecdsa), and distribute a updated "authorised_keys" file.   That is what I did,  I later plan to remove my old DSA keys.

Actually I had already come across it while trying to access a different server, but found using the older RSA key worked. I could nto diagnose the issue back then as I did not have read access to the system logs (not my machine).  Now that I know what the problem is I created a ecdsa key for that account, and all is good.

 ---

Second...  Kill (Destory Window) verses Delete Window

There are two ways X windows can remove a window (application) from the display.

   Destory Window   -- which is essentially what xkill does, and typically causes the application to 'terminate' with a X window, I/O error. Programmically I found it very had to get applications to handle such a situation!

  Delete Window  -- which is the event the application receives when the user presses the 'X' on a application title bar.  Basically this askes the application to remove that window (and exit if it is it's last window).  Basically it lets the cleanly cleanup and shutdown.

Now shutting down the X server (reset by the login manager when .xinitrc script exits) does the first.  The Connection to the Window (and display) just terminates in a very unfriendly manner.

So what can you do about it...

As part of my 'logout' sequence, I use an very old program call   "xclosedown" in my ".xinitrc" script.

This program attempts to first send a 'clean'   "Delete Window" event to all open windows.

Then a few seconds later it sends a "Destroy Window" event to any windows still running.

Actually I don't know why this small and simple "xclosedown" program isn't more wide spread,  It is such a simple and useful program. 

I found a list of copies of this program at...

   http://www.filewatcher.com/m/xclosedown.tar.gz.3714-0.html

But I can sent you my own copy of its sources if you want.

Actually I just re-compiled it for my new x86_64 FC24 machine, after fixing minor 'GCC code warnings'.

It could probably even be re-created as a shell script, using other general X window utilites. Though I can't seem to find a utility program (xdotool, xwit, etc) that can send a 'delete window' event.       --- Challenge anyone?

Why do I reset my display myself?

First it shuts things down in a more clean and application friendly manner.

And second, after xclosedown has run, my 'overly complicated' ".xinitrc" script has a clean X window display.

At that point my script can then either

  1/ restart ALL may applications refresh, as if I just logged in

  2/ exit so the login manager can reset the display and prompt for a new login,

  3/ Reboot my machine

  4/ poweroff my machine.

And yes I can do any of the 4 options via my on screen 'logout' button.

I don't depend on panels or window managers to handle this part!

PS: by doing things this why I can even change window managers, panels, or anything else on my display without needing to logout all the time.  This lets me try out new things AS I LIKE.

Then again, I have been using X Windows from the first public X9 release, in 1988!  That is almost 30 years!

On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 12:41 AM, Aaron Sloman <A.Sl...@cs.bham.ac.uk> wrote:

Olaf wrote:

> I have found a few times that if you close the Firefox window, it
> forgets all the tabs in it (optionally it warns you for that with a
> pop-up). But if I Quit firefox (via the menu or Control-Q) it remembers
> them.
>
> I am guessing from this that exiting X will do the equivalent of closing
> the Firefox window, instead of choosing its Quit function.

Yes that's the conclusion I had drawn, whereas an explicit 'kill' by user
chooses the Quit function and firefox remembers the open tabs and windows
(not kill -9).

I mentioned previously that I had recently switched back to starting X from
level 3, instead of going via level 5 (i.e. now avoiding using graphical
login and xdm/gdm or whatever).

I *think* my previously reported problems of keyboard input focus not
always following the mouse have disappeared as a result. I have only been
using the new startup procedure for a few days (on both laptop and desktop
machines), so I can't yet be sure. As everything seems to be working ok
without the previously mentioned xorg-x11-xinit-session package, I have
not tried using it.

Aaron

PS
Another (not window manager related) problem:
My laptop was upgraded from Fedora 22 to 24 yesterday. I then found ssh
login without password from other local machines no longer worked.
After about two hours of wasted effort I eventually discovered that the
defaults had changed.

In case anyone else has this problem I found the answer here:

https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/ssh-refused-sshd-2444-userauth_pubkey-key-type-ssh-dss-not-in-pubkeyacceptedkeytypes-preauth

    For this specific error, you need to add "PubkeyAcceptedKeyTypes=+ssh-dss"
    (without the quotations) to the bottom of your /etc/ssh/sshd_config file.

[Jostein Berntsen]

On 19.09.16,11:26, Anthony Thyssen wrote:
>By the way.... wmctrl has a -c option to 'delete windows' as if you
>pressed the 'x' button.
>
>I did not find this feature in xdotool, or xwit
>
>though xdotool does have a kill or 'destory window' function, xwit had
>neither.
>
>I am CC'ing this to the xdotool mailing list as it has active developement,
>and I am suprised it does not have this 'delete' or close window function.
>
> Anthony Thyssen ( System Programmer ) <A.Th...@griffith.edu.au>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Unix is a very user-friendly system --
> it's just not promiscuous about which user it's friendly with.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Anthony's Castle http://www.ict.griffith.edu.au/anthony/

What about making the window active and then send a "Alt+F4"?


Jostein

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