Future rookie weather station owner
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Bill Treasurer
Nov 26, 2022, 3:56:27 PM11/26/22
to wxqc
I’ve been wanting to get a weather station for years, I have a good location to install it. On a brick pedestal with power in the middle of my back yard , 40 ft from the nearest tree.
I need help deciding what to buy. My budget is $250-400, it would need WiFi/Bluetooth connectivity (roughly 60 feet from my house). I don’t want anything that gives bogus results, quality is important. Basic sensors, including temp,barometer, wind speed/direction, etc.
Any suggestions?
Don Curtis
Nov 26, 2022, 4:18:54 PM11/26/22
to Bill Treasurer, wxqc
Bluetooth isn't reliable at 60', typically, a station uses 900MHz unlicensed wireless connectivity to the station's console which can be connected to the internet to report to places CWOP or Weather Underground, etc.
Normally I would recommend Davis Vantage Vue (or Pro) and a Davis WeatherLink but we're talking $750 or more which isn't even near you budget.
You may want to look at Ambient Weather, LaCrosse or Oregon Scientific. I am sure others will have specific recommendations that fit your budget.
Don
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Roger Aday (Americansteam)
Nov 26, 2022, 5:02:39 PM11/26/22
to wxqc
There are several good low cost stations out there. Ecowitt offers a
system for under $200.00 without a console that you set up and monitor
with a cell phone or tablet or on the web when you register your station
with Ecowitt.net or one of several other sites. For around $300.00 you
can get a station with a console . I have been using a low cost Ambient
system for over 12 years. Replaced the array once and has been running
in Nikiski Alaska for almost 3 years through snow, ice, and below zero
temperature. Monitor here: https://www.pwsweather.com/station/mid/g0412
chuckda...@gmail.com
Nov 27, 2022, 10:12:06 AM11/27/22
to wxqc
I have a Davis VP2 that's served me well for almost 15 years. It's a nice station but will be above your budget. Earlier this year I got an Ambient Weather WS-5000 that I really like. It has quite a few additional sensors available for a pretty reasonable cost. At $450 or so it's still a little above your budget. The WS-2000 is virtually identical except that it doesn't have the ultrasonic anemometer The WS-2000 is going for about $300 and I believe it uses all of the same optional sensors. I gave people in my family Ambient WS-2902C last year. That way I can see weather where they live. It's a great station and it's under $200. It doesn't have as many optional sensor options but you won't be lacking.
I don't think you would have any problem with the distance from the station. These stations handle distances pretty well.
googl...@tedlum.com
Nov 27, 2022, 10:30:02 AM11/27/22
to wxqc
You don't want, and won't need power. The station should be solar powered with battery backup. If a station were connected to power there would be a much higher risk of damage from lightening and surges.
Stations don't mount by sitting "on" something. They typically mount by attaching the north facing side to a post or mast - the south facing side will typically have a solar panel so the mount is on the north side so it won't cast a shadow.
You typically want to mount the temp/hum sensors 1 meter (3-4 foot) over the ground cover that is typical of the region - that's an okay location for the rain gauge as well. What you'd like to avoid is a brick pedestal that will adsorb and radiate solar energy differently than the ground cover that is typical of the region. A metal mast or wooden post would be best. The less mass it has the less solar energy it can adsorb and store, and the color, or more specifically, LRV (Light Reflectance Value) will determine how much solar energy it absorbs vs. reflects.
I would avoid station which use Wifi or Bluetooth. While those may be useful to connect a console to the internet or a phone/ tablet to the console, the station should send data to it's console using 400 or 900 Mhz band burst mode spread spectrum radios - they're super low power, good range, low interference.
You won't be able to get useful wind data at that height. The wind instruments should be located at 10 meters (33 feet), assuming the station allows you to separate them. You might consider forgoing wind measurement, which could save money, if you can't get the instruments in the right place. There are about 10 stations within a few miles of mine, and the wind data quality from them is ridiculously variable. Only about 20% produce valid wind data, the other 80% clearly weren't sited correctly, they're just there. The poorly sited stations tend to report wind speeds around 33% of actual, and the direction data is just erratic. The software also contributes to the wind data problem. Wind Speed should be a 2-minute average and Wind Gust should be 10-minute peak. One of my neighbors has them swapped - the Speed is always higher than the Gust. Others report Gust as exactly the same value as Speed. Still others don't look the the software is doing the correct sampling rate and averaging. Wind is one of the most difficult (read expensive) parameters to measure correctly. You won't be able to get accuracy in your price range, and even if money were no object you'd need to provide a mounting location that is 10 meters Above Ground Level (AGL). You will, however, get wind instruments that are permanently attached to an all-in-one station in your price range - frankly, if I were on a budget I'd prefer to skip the pointless instruments and put more money into the others, but manufacturers mostly don't share my preference.
Barometric pressure is the easiest. The pressure sensor is typically indoors in the console. Pressure gets tricky because the sensor measures "Station Pressure", which 100% of the time gets corrected to something else, like Mean Seal Level Pressure (MSLP) or Altimeter - MSLP is also corrected to temp/hum whereas Altimeter is only corrected for elevation. Without going down this rabbit hole, lets just say that pressure accuracy can become clouded by apples-to-oranges comparisons.
You should be able to get reasonable temp/hum in your price range. Accurate temperature is more dependent on shielding than height of the location. Heat energy can transfer through conduction, convection, and radiation. To accurately measure the air temperature you need to reject heat energy that arrives via radiation, and that's where radiation shields come in. There is always going to be some error as a result to radiation no matter what you spend. It should go without saying that the more you spend the better the shielding and the lower the error - there really isn't bogus vs. non-bogus, it's more a matter of "acceptable error percentage", and unfortunately there really isn't any good study data in the lower price ranges. This study https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0515/5992/3873/files/AN_24-temp-radiation-shield-comparison.pdf while more then 20 years old is still quite relevant. While these shields alone would represent your entire budget, if not many times more, it gives you an idea of what you might expect as nothing that you can afford will be able to match the performance of these shields, and the passive shields in general have some pretty large errors. One key to accuracy from a radiation shield is active, fan aspiration, and that's not in your price range. Consequently, you're probably looking at a price range that has an average 10 degree error and only a few degrees difference between them. Does it matter to you that one station is 1 degree more accurate then another if it still has a 9 degree error?
You typically want to mount the temp/hum sensors 1 meter (3-4 foot) over the ground cover that is typical of the region - that's an okay location for the rain gauge as well. What you'd like to avoid is a brick pedestal that will adsorb and radiate solar energy differently than the ground cover that is typical of the region. A metal mast or wooden post would be best. The less mass it has the less solar energy it can adsorb and store, and the color, or more specifically, LRV (Light Reflectance Value) will determine how much solar energy it absorbs vs. reflects.
I would avoid station which use Wifi or Bluetooth. While those may be useful to connect a console to the internet or a phone/ tablet to the console, the station should send data to it's console using 400 or 900 Mhz band burst mode spread spectrum radios - they're super low power, good range, low interference.
You won't be able to get useful wind data at that height. The wind instruments should be located at 10 meters (33 feet), assuming the station allows you to separate them. You might consider forgoing wind measurement, which could save money, if you can't get the instruments in the right place. There are about 10 stations within a few miles of mine, and the wind data quality from them is ridiculously variable. Only about 20% produce valid wind data, the other 80% clearly weren't sited correctly, they're just there. The poorly sited stations tend to report wind speeds around 33% of actual, and the direction data is just erratic. The software also contributes to the wind data problem. Wind Speed should be a 2-minute average and Wind Gust should be 10-minute peak. One of my neighbors has them swapped - the Speed is always higher than the Gust. Others report Gust as exactly the same value as Speed. Still others don't look the the software is doing the correct sampling rate and averaging. Wind is one of the most difficult (read expensive) parameters to measure correctly. You won't be able to get accuracy in your price range, and even if money were no object you'd need to provide a mounting location that is 10 meters Above Ground Level (AGL). You will, however, get wind instruments that are permanently attached to an all-in-one station in your price range - frankly, if I were on a budget I'd prefer to skip the pointless instruments and put more money into the others, but manufacturers mostly don't share my preference.
Barometric pressure is the easiest. The pressure sensor is typically indoors in the console. Pressure gets tricky because the sensor measures "Station Pressure", which 100% of the time gets corrected to something else, like Mean Seal Level Pressure (MSLP) or Altimeter - MSLP is also corrected to temp/hum whereas Altimeter is only corrected for elevation. Without going down this rabbit hole, lets just say that pressure accuracy can become clouded by apples-to-oranges comparisons.
You should be able to get reasonable temp/hum in your price range. Accurate temperature is more dependent on shielding than height of the location. Heat energy can transfer through conduction, convection, and radiation. To accurately measure the air temperature you need to reject heat energy that arrives via radiation, and that's where radiation shields come in. There is always going to be some error as a result to radiation no matter what you spend. It should go without saying that the more you spend the better the shielding and the lower the error - there really isn't bogus vs. non-bogus, it's more a matter of "acceptable error percentage", and unfortunately there really isn't any good study data in the lower price ranges. This study https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0515/5992/3873/files/AN_24-temp-radiation-shield-comparison.pdf while more then 20 years old is still quite relevant. While these shields alone would represent your entire budget, if not many times more, it gives you an idea of what you might expect as nothing that you can afford will be able to match the performance of these shields, and the passive shields in general have some pretty large errors. One key to accuracy from a radiation shield is active, fan aspiration, and that's not in your price range. Consequently, you're probably looking at a price range that has an average 10 degree error and only a few degrees difference between them. Does it matter to you that one station is 1 degree more accurate then another if it still has a 9 degree error?
mmillerr7
Nov 27, 2022, 11:50:36 AM11/27/22
to Bill Treasurer, wxqc
Bill,
All answers are great especially about placement. From one still a rookie station owner to another, buy a station in your price range and learn what works well for you and what does not. I purchased a Davis Instruments Vantage Pro2 Wireless system and have a blast with it but it had the components I really wanted to learn about. Do I have issues? Don't get me started on wind readings, friend. My point is this - buy what you can, learn what you have, decide what works well at your location and what doesn't, and make changes from there. Have fun!
On Sat, Nov 26, 2022, 2:56 PM Bill Treasurer <wtrea...@gmail.com> wrote:
I’ve been wanting to get a weather station for years, I have a good location to install it. On a brick pedestal with power in the middle of my back yard , 40 ft from the nearest tree.I need help deciding what to buy. My budget is $250-400, it would need WiFi/Bluetooth connectivity (roughly 60 feet from my house). I don’t want anything that gives bogus results, quality is important. Basic sensors, including temp,barometer, wind speed/direction, etc.Any suggestions?
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Roy Lamberton Gmail
Nov 27, 2022, 12:03:46 PM11/27/22
to wx...@googlegroups.com
I agree with this one!
I have a Davis with both Vantage Vue and the Big console - I have one upstairs, and one on my office desk (Yes I spent way too much money, my office desk model links to the computer that drives CWOP.)
I also have the "audio" wind setup, on my roof with a wire connecting it to the main unit. Whatever you do, ground all of it so lightning won't be a factor.
And Have fun with tracking the weather. I can look at my station on the web through CWOP and its fun to be able to say "The temperature in my back yard is...."
rsl
I have a Davis with both Vantage Vue and the Big console - I have one upstairs, and one on my office desk (Yes I spent way too much money, my office desk model links to the computer that drives CWOP.)
I also have the "audio" wind setup, on my roof with a wire connecting it to the main unit. Whatever you do, ground all of it so lightning won't be a factor.
And Have fun with tracking the weather. I can look at my station on the web through CWOP and its fun to be able to say "The temperature in my back yard is...."
rsl
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wxqc/CAMpLnVe%3D4Q8VF63WUq9y_Cn3f_EsNzhsjqw_CBXqG19x_L0faA%40mail.gmail.com.
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googl...@tedlum.com
Nov 27, 2022, 12:47:43 PM11/27/22
to wxqc
I'd also mention there are some more comprehensive guides behind much of the condensed discussion/advice I give. I like to cherry pick relevant specifics since these can be overwhelming to some...
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