Fwd: Big Questions for WVC
Call
Hey there Team,
Thanks for sharing this Abby. Initially i wrote "Yes, I think this is a good discussion to have among the larger group." After writing my thoughts below I feel like this is a big and sticky set of issues we might want to get on the same page about before sharing with the full members. My thoughts are below.
We need to get a clear understanding of what Andrew is assuming about this “cohousing overlay.” He seems to think there’s something embedded in what we’re proposing that makes it less marketable and therefore will reduce the long-term resale price. I think this is part of his and our continued learning – I want to make sure this isn’t the case but that involves us all recognizing that WVC should have no formal control over the unit sales once completed. It will just be a condo development that we’ve hopefully established as an attractive one. Here is what I am assuming he’s concerned about and what my responses would be:
1. Just the term cohousing is going to turn people off.
a. This may be true and this is why we’re willing to be the primary marketers. We want people who share our vision and concept but recognize we’re engaged in a real estate deal where, in the end, all buyers may not share our vision. We’ll need to define in the marketing plan how the various marketing efforts (WVC members vs. non WVC members) will be handled.
2. Our homeowners association or equivalent contract for buyers will have requirements or restrictions that will deter future buyers
a. No, we’ve learned from other cohousing communities that this is, in fact, a big red flag to lenders. Therefore, the final homeownership agreement will have no mention of cohousing and no restrictive requirements or rules that aren’t standard in a cohousing community.
3. The cost of some of our design specifications are going to increase the price beyond what the market has demonstrated a willingness to pay.
a. Please let us know which of the design features you’re concerned about and let us know what alternative you would propose to bring the price more in line with what’s comparable. For example, if not geothermal or passive house because of cost, then what would you suggest as an alternative to managing long term energy costs. Also, can you quantify the initial price differential stated to recognize the energy cost savings over the average homeownership timeframe. For example, “the geothermal raises the average price per unit by $5,000, but assuming a 7-year ownership period and $____ in annual energy cost savings, that calculates to a difference of $_____ ."
4. We’re going to require buyers to join WVC in order to purchase.
a. See #1 above. This is the key issue and one that needs to be discussed and acknowledged. We’ve essentially created a very exclusive club for purchase at this point which both limits who might buy and, if we tried to keep those things in place, would limit who could purchase when we’re ready to sell. Bottom line answer here, I believe is that WVC will have no formal ownership or say in the condo development at the point of outside financing, and more importantly, once the development is established. That’s critical for ensuring truly market based resale assumptions.
5. There’s intrinsic but not real quantifiable value in the values you’re putting out there.
a. Perhaps, I don’t know if there’s any study that demonstrates higher values for multicultural, more communal or more friendly and engaging condo communities. At the same time, except for the White Flight stories and data, I don’t know that there are any studies that say the values are lower. Let us know if this is your concern and how you’d suggest we deal with it.
Those are my thoughts for now. Eager to hear what others are thinking on this. They are very real issues we’ll need to start clarifying ASAP if we move forward. I must say, I’m feeling like Andrew really does want to do this, we just need to focus now on the marketability of these condos, not so much on our COHO vision.
On road but available via cell @ 703-340-5217.
Vanessa
From: vaness32 [mailto:vane...@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 3:10 PM
To: Lowe, Vanessa L
Subject: FW: Big Questions for WVC
Vanessa L. Lowe
Home: (267) 323-2787
From: abigail weinberg [mailto:withh...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 11:51 AM
To: Pesha Leichter; Vanessa Lowe; Melissa Klein; JANET E BOYS; Bob Bernstein
Subject: Big Questions for WVC
Dear Liaison/Process Gang (with significant representation from the Finance team!),
In my newly begun relationship with Andrew, he sent me the below email outlining his concerns about this project. As I wrote to him, I really appreciate his honesty and candor. And, I think we need to think about what to do with his concerns. (I know they are very real since they've also come from several of the people Nathan & I have spoken to about cohousing.)
Please reply-all to this email with your thoughts and/or call me to discuss.
The big questions are: 1. Do we share this email with the larger group and/or 2. do we discuss at an upcoming meeting?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts,
Abby
Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Andrew Vaughn Eisenstein <aveise...@gmail.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>; aro...@resi-life.com
Cc: Ann Zabaldo <a...@cohousingcollaborative.com>; Jack Wilbern <ja...@cohousingcollaborative.com>; Melissa Klein <malka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Village Cohousing Pitch Package
Abby,
Our team is working on the construction details now. In terms of marketing, it was going to be a plug number in our budget that assumed some modest commissions, a sign, and then eventually some print materials and some advertising.
I want to say again that I am impressed with what you put together and the presentation. You were not present at the original kickoff meeting we had at the site with Ann, Jack and Melissa so I wanted to put in writing (I will do this again with the narrative) some of the major hurdles I see with this project.
The biggest hurdle has to do with a distinction between intrinsic and actual value. This is mostly a monetary concept but let me explain how I think it applies here and why the issue gives me pause. I am concerned that the value of a condomium with this co-housing overlay will not hold up in the market place. By that, I mean that the value at the original sale and the agreed sale price may be arms lenght and agreed to but that the appraisal market will not find equivalent comps. If my concern if validated, this would mean that every buyer is buying into the project "underwater" assuming each buyer is able to succesfully overcome the financing hurdles. On a personal level, I have a problem selling my friends and neighbors investments that might not hold up in the market so I guess at least part of this concern is a disclosure issue.
This all ties in with the residential financing issues of the day (which are very different than when many other co-housing projects were developed). These obstacles can be overcome, but I wanted to put in writing something we discussed at our first meeting so if we continue to move forward there are no surprises down the road.
Speak with you soon.
We should have our budget to you by end of next week.
Andrew
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 10:43 AM, abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Andrew -
Thanks for following up and for taking the time to talk to Jack about the concept site plans and specs.
I would be happy to talk marketing with you to get a picture of what your marketing budget would include and how WVC would fit into that. Let me know when is a good time to talk. I am generally available M-F 9:30 am - 3:30 pm. I may try and get Ann Zabaldo and/or another WVC member on that call as well.
Also, as I started to say yesterday, I wanted to let you know that we received a call from a WHYY reporter (Erin Roselle) who is interested in doing a story on us. I told him that we should wait at least a week or two until we have a better sense of how we will be moving ahead with the developer. I expect to hear from him in the next two weeks. This is encouraging!
Best,
Abby
Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
From: Andrew Vaughn Eisenstein <aveise...@gmail.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Cc: Ann Zabaldo <a...@cohousingcollaborative.com>; Jack Wilbern <ja...@cohousingcollaborative.com>; Melissa Klein <malka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Village Cohousing Pitch Package
Sorry about the end of the call. i picked up the receiver as my partners walked out of the room and then promptly dropped it and the phone hung up...duh.
Abby, if you want to talk about marketing I would like to do that. For the overall budget purposes it will be a plug number that assumes a small amount of real estate commissions and some marketing dollars.
andrew
On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 12:47 PM, abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Andrew,
Attached please find information intended to solidify your interest in working with Wissahickon Village Cohousing (WVC), LLC.
Attached are:
1. Pitch Package, including a 1-page summary of the project and several supporting documents.
2. Concept Site Plan (for your use alone).
3. Outline Spec (for your use alone).
Please contact me to set up a time to discuss this further. We look forward to hearing from you and continuing to move this process forward.
All the best,
Abby Weinberg
Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
--Andrew V. Eisenstein
Managing Partner
Iron Stone
--Andrew V. Eisenstein
Managing Partner
Iron Stone
Pesha Leichter
I think one of the things we need to stress with Andrew is that putting money into energy efficiencies is absolutely attractive to buyers. No one believes energy costs are headed down. Mt Airy is a neighborhood that attracts people interested in sustainability and most of the housing stock is definitely not energy efficient. The fact that the amount of energy needed to heat or cool a passive haus is about equal to running a hair dryer is amazing.
pesha
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Pesha Leichter
abigail weinberg
Thank you Pesha and Vanessa for your thoughts. I agree with the sentiment that we should discus this in a small group BEFORE presenting anything to the whole group. I think it is crucial that we know what we are talking about before having a larger conversation.
In my opinion, I am not sure that Andrew is especially worried about the cost of the sustainability features we were discussing. He sounded like he just needed to know what they were so he could get a realistic price on them. I think his concerns around financing and the "distinction between intrinsic and actual value" are his primamry concerns.
So, I am thinking that FIRST we have a conference call between 2-4 WVC members and Andrew to clarify his concerns and how we might address them. I would set up and be on the call, and I would HOPE that at least Vanessa and Pesha would join me and take the lead on our end. We would mostly be listening to him with the goal of deeply understanding his concerns so that we can do the research needed to quell them.
From: Call <vane...@earthlink.net>
To: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 10:47 AM
Subject: Fwd: Big Questions for WVC
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JANET E BOYS
vanessa
Hey team,
Tomorrow doesn't work but Friday between 8am and 11am or Monday between 4pm and 5:30pm could. I'm also in town on the weekend if you want to try then. Otherwise next available time would be next Wednesday between 5pm and 9pm and Thursday pretty much any time. Hopefully between those options we can do an internal call and another call w/ Andrew to clarify what his concerns are. Thanks for keeping us moving forward Abby. Have we gotten any feedback or comments about this from Ann or Jack?
Vanessa
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Pesha Leichter
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abigail weinberg
From: Pesha Leichter <pes...@gmail.com>
To: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:56 PM
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Jack Wilbern
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Jack Wilbern
abigail weinberg
As a reward :-), Ann and I decided to remove you from this google group so we can use it without filing up your inbox.
PESHA - Please do your magic to remove him from this list. From now on, if we want to add Jack to our conversations, we should add his email (ja...@cohousingcollaborative.com.) Ann will forward emails to Jack as appropriate.
Meanwhile, after speaking with Ann, I agree with Jack and Ann that we do NOT need to follow up with Andrew about his concerns right now. As Ann advised, I think we should let Andrew focus on getting the pricing for the project as we have specified so that we can figure out whether we are all in the same ball park. Meanwhile, as Vanessa pointed out, I will communicate to Andrew that WVC is well aware of the need to 'downplaying' our cohousing identity and presenting ourselves as a simple condo to the mainstream financial world. (I will tell Andrew this as I also send him info on the upcoming PHILADELPHIA CONDO CONGRESS which I am planning to attend.)
Three more things from my conversation with Ann:
- Cohousing Collaborative will be submitting an invoice next week for hours worked.
- Ann thinks we need to be focusing our energies on discussing our cohousing policies. Setting those policies will be critical for marketing the houses and for ensuring a smooth transition to living in them (G!d willing!). I'll save the rest of this conversation for the process team meeting to take place next week.
- Cohousing Collaborative is NOT willing to share copies of other couhousing Membership Agreements with WVC. They prefer to share them is the context of working with WVC in a more long-term consultant way. We should get copies in other ways (as Neysa has begun to do.) She urged us to have a lawyer and a cohousing professional review them before finalizing.
Abby
From: Jack Wilbern <ja...@cohousingcollaborative.com>
To: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:12 PM
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Ann Zabaldo
Takoma Village Cohousing
Washington, DC
Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC
Falls Church, VA
703.688.2646
Thank you, Jack. Very helpful, indeed.
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Call
Vanessa
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Ann Zabaldo
Takoma Village Cohousing
Washington, DC
Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC
Falls Church, VA
703.688.2646
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Ann Zabaldo
Takoma Village Cohousing
Washington, DC
Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC
Falls Church, VA
703.688.2646
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