Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
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abigail weinberg
Dec 17, 2012, 10:44:34 PM12/17/12
to tb...@ecomillennia.com, wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Hi Tom!
Thanks for asking about the meeting with Andrew and sorry I didn't get to you sooner.
My meeting notes are below which should give you a good sense of what was discussed... Interested to hear your take (and maybe Don Tucker's) especially on the financing issues.
Another interesting development happened today: A few of us met with Scott Siebert (of www.bancroftgreen.com). He is about to design and build an apartment building in our neighborhood with many green features and "community oriented" design. He is working with Scott Kelley of re:Vision to design, so we would be very much ahead of the game there. We are thinking about how to work our cohousing community into his primarily rental building. We discussed such possibilities as long term (30 yr) leasing; a coop structure; making condos out of some of the apartments, etc. Stay tuned for developments on that front as well!
Take care and Happy Holidays!
Abby
Thanks for asking about the meeting with Andrew and sorry I didn't get to you sooner.
My meeting notes are below which should give you a good sense of what was discussed... Interested to hear your take (and maybe Don Tucker's) especially on the financing issues.
Another interesting development happened today: A few of us met with Scott Siebert (of www.bancroftgreen.com). He is about to design and build an apartment building in our neighborhood with many green features and "community oriented" design. He is working with Scott Kelley of re:Vision to design, so we would be very much ahead of the game there. We are thinking about how to work our cohousing community into his primarily rental building. We discussed such possibilities as long term (30 yr) leasing; a coop structure; making condos out of some of the apartments, etc. Stay tuned for developments on that front as well!
Take care and Happy Holidays!
Abby
Meeting
with Andrew Eisenstein (Iron Stone), and WVC members:
Bob
Bernstein Janet Boys, Vanessa Lowe and Abby Weinberg
Thursday,
December 13, 2012; 2:15 – 3:35 pm
Andrew explained that the economics of condominiums is
different from building houses or apartments. He insisted that it is uniquely
difficult to finance the building of condos in Pennsylvania at this time
because bank regulators won’t allow banks to lend to condo builders. Currently,
only rental apartment buildings and single-family homes are being financed, and
therefore built, not condos.
The only thing Andrew thinks it makes sense to build on 7048
Germantown are “Fee
Simple” residences, which would mean townhouses or possibly duplexes where
the top and bottom are owned by the same person.
When asked “what is we significantly simplify the design?”
his response was:
- Be careful not to design something you don’t want to live in.
- If you are wiling to live in a simple apartment building, the most economically feasible idea is to buy an existing apt building and fix it up to your standards.
Renovation vs. New Construction
We spoke a lot about the implications of deciding to locate
WVC in an already existing building in Northwest Philadelphia:
- Andrew felt that we were very likely to find a suitable apartment building or warehouse to buy in our geographically preferred area. (Approx ½ mile from Weavers Way Coop.)
- He explained that once we were to purchase an apartment building and had enough renters who wanted to buy, we could turn the apartments into condos in stages. Although it is impossible to get financing to build a new condo, it seems it is not a problem to turn and an existing apt building into a condo. (Bob agrees this is true.)
- Andrew owns several building we may be able to do this with and knows of many others in Mt. Airy. He will give us a list with addresses, basic specs, and anything he can tell us about general pricing.
- Andrew believes that any building can get an elevator put in and most any other feature we want.
- Things we may give up if working with an existing building:
- Access to parking (most buildings in Mt. Airy do not have lots.)
- Some sustainability features (although it is as important to think about retrofitting for sustainability as it is to think about it for new constriction)
- Green outdoor space for community gathering, gardening
- Etc.
- The main benefits are: sustainable reuse of buildings and MUCH less expensive!
Moving Forward
1. Show
him the money: In order to become partners with Iron Stone, in addition to
drafting and signing an agreement, we will need to put money into our LLC so
that it is a real organization that can be a partner. This will likely
come out to putting $500,000-600,000 in escrow to ensure that we don’t walk
away from the project.
2. Andrew
pointed out that we still need to clarify some of our values especially as they
relate to the build environment. Hs saw several conflicting impulses in
our group that will need to be prioritized in order to find a property that
works. The values are:
a. Sustainability
b. Affordability
c. Geography
(location in W. Mt. Airy)
d. Need
for Financing
e. Cohouing
principles (Parking away from homes, common house, etc)
f. Green
open space
Conflicts include:
a. Sustainability
(passive house) vs. geography: Homes in Mt Airy can’t really be oriented to
maximize solar exposure because the lots do not line up correctly, therefore
that feature of Passive Haus may not be an option
b. Cohousing
principles vs. Geography: It will be hard to find a building in Mt. Airy that
has parking in one spot…
3. We agreed
that the best way to proceed is to get a list of local apartment buildings from
Andrew and go visit them. This way we can see what we like & don’t
like and whether we could imagine creating and living cohousing in one of these
buildings. We will see first hand what is it we would be giving up and
what we would gain from turning various buildings into cohousing. (Abby
will get the list from Andrew next week.)
Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
From: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: Abigail Weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
How did the meeting go.
Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com----- Reply message -----
From: "Abigail Weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Dec 13, 2012 12:30 am
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "Thomas Bath" <tjb...@msn.com>
Cc: "Tom Bath Eco Millennia" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>, "wvc-working-group" <wvc-work...@googlegroups.com>Thanks very much for this, Tom. Our meeting is at 2 pm today.The one big question I (and I imagine other WVC members) will have is: you talked about reducing costs by $1 million, but we think we would need to shave $3-4 million for us to be able to afford it. Do you think that would be possible at this site? If so, how?I will try to call before the meeting, and certainly after to check in.Best,
Hi Abby : sending this from my msn account.
I have quickly reviewed the proposal from Ironstone tonight.
First of all : I like the design. It seems to have good siting and orientation for a cohousing community.
Good privacy and nice open space amenities as well as some street privscy for the housing units.
Happy to review it in more detail.
What does Bob Bernstein think of it. Did the group help design it.
My comments on costs :
Pricewise to achieve a LEED silver; it seems in line.
Geothermal is a big ticket item : $ 704,000. Other systems could be half the cost.
You have to see what return on the investment is over time.
Also the plumbing and sprinkler estimated line items seem on the high side.
Is this being done with union or open shop labor. If it is union then I understand the costs.
The permit fees, Design & Engineering fees seem in line as well as the Construction General Conditions.
One suggestion would be to have the common house be built as a vanilla box and have the community put the sweat equity into finishing the interior
including the kitchen area. Do you have any members that are tradesman to lend a hand. That might save approximately 25 to 50 K.
I see the Food Service equipment line item is 50 K. You can do a common house kitchen without spending that kind of money : 20 K - 25K might be enough.
All the "GREEN" items cost money : i see the GREEN ROOF is being budgeted at $ 89,600.
Geothermal at $ 704,000. These two items alone add almost $ 800,000 to the budget.
I think this is where Johnny McDonald might come into play to evaluate the design and see if/how his company could bring the cost on green items down.
He could possibly reduce the construction cost by as much as a million dollars; but Andrew and Ironstome would have to be amenable to working with them
on the project. I think the McDonald's wanted to be involved in both the design and the construction. A design-build with the McDonalds and Onion Flats
might net a significant savings in the cost of green features. I remember they also had a pre-fab company. This would help bring the cost down if this was
not reflected in Ironstone's cost. Has McDonald/Onion Flats done any budget forecasting on the units to date based on this design.
Ithink there are ways to save some moeny on the construction costs, but the drawings need to be developed firt in order to do this.
Design-build is typically one approach to achieving this.
Feel free to call me on Thursday if you would like to discuss any questions you have.
What time is your meeting.
Good luck.
I think it is a good site and a good start to the design.
Needs to be developed and hard costed to help bring the costs more in line.
Best regards to the group. Be happy to assist more as needed.
Thomas J. Bath, LEED APConstruction Management Services
From: tb...@ecomillennia.com
To: tjb...@msn.com
Subject: FW: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 09:15:34 -0500From: abigail weinberg [mailto:withh...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:54 PM
To: tb...@ecomillennia.com
Cc: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & RequestHello again!Our group met tonight and decided that we *would* like your "official" analysis of the budget presented by Andrew (Iron Stone) for building cohousing on his Germantown Ave, site. As we agreed, we are happy to pay you $100 for this work. Please send the invoice to my attention.Since we are all rather attached to this site, we are especially interested in ways you might see for reducing the costs to closer to $7 million (not including land costs).I am re-sending our Pitch Package (2 documents) here; Andrew's budget proposal will follow in a separate email.Thanks very much! We all look forward to hearing your take on this. Please let me know by when you think you will have a report to us.All the best,AbbyAbigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.eduFrom: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & RequestOkay.
Thanks for the information.
I will take a look.
Talk after that.
Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
Cc: "wvc-work...@googlegroups.com" <wvc-work...@googlegroups.com>, "Ann Zabaldo" <ann.z...@gmail.com>Hi Tom,I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your family! My family and I took a big trip to Charleston, SC for a family wedding and are still recovering!Although I don't think we need to ask you to do any "official" work at this point, I wanted to keep you in the loop regarding our communications with Andrew and our work with Cohousing Collaborative (CC).Attached are:1. A memo with CC's analysis of Andrew's budget proposal for building cohousing on Germantown Ave.2. The Pitch Package we sent to Andrew, on which the budget is based. (Includes 3 documents)I hope you have a moment to peruse these documents and feel free to let us know any comments you may have.FYI: we are also in touch with Johnny MacDonald from Onion Flats and will be ending him the Pitch Package as well.All the best,AbbyAbigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.eduFrom: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & RequestThanks. It was.
I will wait to hear from you.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:54 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>Great to talk to you today, Tom. I hope your trip to Lockhaven is successful!As I mentioned on the phone, we are going to talk to Jack and Ann about Andrew's proposal sometime the week of 11/25. I will get back to you after we have that conversation. No need to do anything until then.Thanks very much,AbbyAbigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.eduFrom: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & RequestHi Aby.
Thanks for getting back to me regarding the project.
I am happy to review and meet.
Lets talk sometime today or tonight regarding my fee and details.
Regards.
Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>Dear Tom,
I am writing to you on behalf of Wissahickon Village Cohousing (WVC, formerly, Wissahickon Eco-Village) to update you and potentially ask for your help at what seems to be a crossroads that the group is facing. My name is Abby, and I am currently serving as the (very part-time) Community Coordinator for the group (the same position Lynne Iser held earlier this year.)
As you probably know, we have been trying to more forward in negotiating to build our cohousing community on a property on Germantown Ave that is currently owned by Iron Stone Strategic Capital Partners. In October, we compiled and submitted a "Pitch Package" to Iron Stone complete with a concept site plan and outline specifications that were created by Cohousing Collaborative, (Jack Wilburn and Ann Zabaldo,) consultants that we hired from the Washington, DC area. Last week, Iron Stone (Andrew Eisenstein) presented us with the attached proposal which he created based on the Pitch Package.
Before we sit down with Andrew and discuss this document and next steps, we plan to meet with our Cohousing Collaborative consultants to gain a better understanding of this proposal and its implications. (That meting will take place after Thanksgiving due to their vacation schedules.) In the meantime, the group thought that we might ask you to take a look as well to give us your perspective on what Andrew is proposing: Do his numbers seem reasonable? Are there ways to bring down the cost? How realistic is his perspective on the financing? Are there avenues of negotiation to be explored?
We understand if you would like to be compensated for your time and expertise. Please let me know how/when/whether we could arrange for you to talk to some representatives of our group to give you a fuller update, discuss Iron Stone's proposal and the potential value added of working together in a more formal way.
Feel free to respond to this email or give me a call at the phone numbers below.
Thanks very much,
Abby
Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958 email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
abigail weinberg
Dec 27, 2012, 4:53:36 PM12/27/12
to Tom Bath, wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Thanks so much for your insights, Tom. We will certainly be in touch as needed.
From: Tom Bath <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: 'abigail weinberg' <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
Hi Abby : just rereading some of the material including Ann Zabaldo’s e-mail comments on Iron Stone proposal.Wondering -:1. Is buying the site an option.2. Has Johnnie McDonald got back to you yet with budget pricing based on the CC design.Maybe getting them involved in either buying the property or tasking a note with Andrew to purchase the property is a viable option.That would be Andrew’s decision; it depends on how anxious he is to develop this particular site.Just some additional thoughts.Ann’s comment about continuing to move forward is so true.I read your price package and realize that WVC has now spend an tremendous amount of time-energy and insight now developing a program for success.It seems that you have some strong membership and equity to put a project in place.Feel free to comment or call me to update your next steps.I will review costs that Don and I came up with for a project in the Philly area when I get a minute to give you some more feedback on price.Am interested in seeing the Group be able to move forward.Best wishes,Thomas Bath,LEED AP and Construction Mgr.Cohousing Solutions40 East Indian Lane, Norristown, PA 19403Phone: 610-842-3448e-mail: tb...@ecomillennia.comSustainable Green Neighborhood Solutions
From: abigail weinberg [mailto:withh...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 1:43 PM
To: tb...@ecomillennia.com
Cc: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com; Ann Zabaldo
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
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