Fw: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

[abigail weinberg]

Below is Tom Bath's quick analysis.  I haven't had a chance to look at it but wanted to get it to you ASAP.

Happy reading, digesting & commenting!

Abby

 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Thomas Bath <tjb...@msn.com>
To: Tom Bath Eco Millennia <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
Cc: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 11:03 PM
Subject: RE: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

 
Hi Abby : sending this from my msn account.
 
I have quickly reviewed the proposal from Ironstone tonight.
First of all : I like the design. It seems to have good siting and orientation for a cohousing community.
Good privacy and nice open space amenities as well as some street privscy for the housing units.
Happy to review it in more detail.
What does Bob Bernstein think of it. Did the group help design it.
 
My comments on costs :
Pricewise to achieve a LEED silver; it seems in line.
Geothermal is a big ticket item : $ 704,000. Other systems could be half the cost.
You have to see what return on the investment is over time.
Also the plumbing and sprinkler estimated line items seem on the high side.
Is this being done with union or open shop labor. If it is union then I understand the costs. 
The permit fees, Design & Engineering fees seem in line as well as the Construction General Conditions.
 
One suggestion would be to have the common house be built as a vanilla box and have the community put the sweat equity into finishing the interior
including the kitchen area. Do you have any members that are tradesman to lend a hand. That might save approximately 25 to 50 K.
I see the Food Service equipment line item is 50 K. You can do a common house kitchen without spending that kind of money : 20 K - 25K might be enough.
All the "GREEN" items cost money : i see the GREEN ROOF is being budgeted at $ 89,600.
Geothermal at $ 704,000. These two items alone add almost $ 800,000 to the budget.
I think this is where Johnny McDonald might come into play to evaluate the design and see if/how his company could bring the cost on green items down.
He could possibly reduce the construction cost by as much as a million dollars; but Andrew and Ironstome would have to be amenable to working with them
on the project. I think the McDonald's wanted to be involved in both the design and the construction. A design-build with the McDonalds and Onion Flats
might net a significant savings in the cost of green features. I remember they also had a pre-fab company. This would help bring the cost down if this was
not reflected in Ironstone's cost. Has McDonald/Onion Flats done any budget forecasting on the units to date based on this design.
Ithink there are ways to save some moeny on the construction costs, but the drawings need to be developed firt in order to do this.
Design-build is typically one approach to achieving this.
 
Feel free to call me on Thursday if you would like to discuss any questions you have.
What time is your meeting.
 
Good luck.
I think it is a good site and a good start to the design.
Needs to be developed and hard costed to help bring the costs more in line.
 
Best regards to the group.  Be happy to assist more as needed.

 

Thomas J. Bath, LEED AP

Construction Management Services

40 East Indian Lane
Norristown, PA 19403
Cell Phone : 610-842-3448
E-mail : tjb...@msn.com

 

 

 

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From: tb...@ecomillennia.com
To: tjb...@msn.com
Subject: FW: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 09:15:34 -0500

 

 

From: abigail weinberg [mailto:withh...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 10:54 PM
To: tb...@ecomillennia.com
Cc: wvc-work...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

 

Hello again!

 

Our group met tonight and decided that we *would* like your "official" analysis of the budget presented by Andrew (Iron Stone) for building cohousing on his Germantown Ave, site.  As we agreed, we are happy to pay you $100 for this work.  Please send the invoice to my attention.

 

Since we are all rather attached to this site, we are especially interested in ways you might see for reducing the costs to closer to $7 million (not including land costs).

 

I am re-sending our Pitch Package (2 documents) here; Andrew's budget proposal will follow in a separate email.

 

Thanks very much! We all look forward to hearing your take on this. Please let me know by when you think you will have a report to us.

 

All the best,

Abby

 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

---

From: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

 

Okay.
Thanks for the information.
I will take a look.
Talk after that.

Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com

----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 1:43 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
Cc: "wvc-work...@googlegroups.com" <wvc-work...@googlegroups.com>, "Ann Zabaldo" <ann.z...@gmail.com>

Hi Tom,

 

I hope you had a great Thanksgiving with your family!  My family and I took a big trip to Charleston, SC for a family wedding and are still recovering!

 

Although I don't think we need to ask you to do any "official" work at this point, I wanted to keep you in the loop regarding our communications with Andrew and our work with Cohousing Collaborative (CC).

 

Attached are:

1. A memo with CC's analysis of Andrew's budget proposal for building cohousing on Germantown Ave.

2. The Pitch Package we sent to Andrew, on which the budget is based. (Includes 3 documents)

 

I hope you have a moment to peruse these documents and feel free to let us know any comments you may have.

 

FYI: we are also in touch with Johnny MacDonald from Onion Flats and will be ending him the Pitch Package as well.

 

All the best,

Abby

 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

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From: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

 

Thanks. It was.
I will wait to hear from you.
Have a nice Thanksgiving.


Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com

----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Nov 19, 2012 12:54 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>

Great to talk to you today, Tom.  I hope your trip to Lockhaven is successful!

 

As I mentioned on the phone, we are going to talk to Jack and Ann about Andrew's proposal sometime the week of 11/25. I will get back to you after we have that conversation.  No need to do anything until then.

 

Thanks very much,

Abby

 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

---

From: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>
To: abigail weinberg <withh...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request

 

Hi Aby.
Thanks for getting back to me regarding the project.
I am happy to review and meet.
Lets talk sometime today or tonight regarding my fee and details.
Regards.

Thomas Bath, LEED AP
Construction Mgr.
610-842-3448
tb...@ecomillennia.com

----- Reply message -----
From: "abigail weinberg" <withh...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, Nov 18, 2012 9:42 pm
Subject: Wissahickon Cohousing Update & Request
To: "tb...@ecomillennia.com" <tb...@ecomillennia.com>

Dear Tom,

I am writing to you on behalf of Wissahickon Village Cohousing (WVC, formerly, Wissahickon Eco-Village) to update you and potentially ask for your help at what seems to be a crossroads that the group is facing.  My name is Abby, and I am currently serving as the (very part-time) Community Coordinator for the group (the same position Lynne Iser held earlier this year.)

As you probably know, we have been trying to more forward in negotiating to build our cohousing community on a property on Germantown Ave that is currently owned by Iron Stone Strategic Capital Partners.  In October, we compiled and submitted a "Pitch Package" to Iron Stone  complete with a concept site plan and outline specifications that were created by Cohousing Collaborative, (Jack Wilburn and Ann Zabaldo,) consultants that we hired from the Washington, DC area.  Last week, Iron Stone (Andrew Eisenstein) presented us with the attached proposal which he created based on the Pitch Package.

Before we sit down with Andrew and discuss this document and next steps, we plan to meet with our Cohousing Collaborative consultants to gain a better understanding of this proposal and its implications.  (That meting will take place after Thanksgiving due to their vacation schedules.)  In the meantime, the group thought that we might ask you to take a look as well to give us your perspective on what Andrew is proposing: Do his numbers seem reasonable?  Are there ways to bring down the cost? How realistic is his perspective on the financing? Are there avenues of negotiation to be explored?

We understand if you would like to be compensated for your time and expertise.  Please let me know how/when/whether we could arrange for you to talk to some representatives of our group to give you a fuller update, discuss Iron Stone's proposal and the potential value added of working together in a more formal way.

Feel free to respond to this email or give me a call at the phone numbers below. 

Thanks very much,
Abby
 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

 

 

 

[Abigail Weinberg]

Thanks very much for this, Tom.  Our meeting is at 2 pm today.

The one big question I (and I imagine other WVC members) will have is: you talked about reducing costs by $1 million, but we think we would need to shave $3-4 million for us to be able to afford it.  Do you think that would be possible at this site? If so, how?

I will try to call before the meeting, and certainly after to check in.

Best,

Abby

Abigail Weinberg ~ 734-474-6958 ~ abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

[Ann Zabaldo]

Hi Abby!

I really appreciate Tom's take on Iron Stone's proposal.  It validates that the figures Iron Stone cites are in line.  He does make some suggestions for reducing the costs including, radical redesign, eliminating the geo-thermal system and making some reductions in construction.    The question remains if all of these will be enough to reduce the over all costs by 30%.  And ... more significantly ... even w/ the reduced project cost if the there is financing available for condos which is Andrew's major concern.

One item I am in strong disagreement w/ in Tom's proposal -- building out the CH AFTER move in.  I could fill volumes why this is a really, truly, bad idea.  

1.  After move in you will be up to your ears in "governing" yourselves and figuring out how to live together.  The first year is completely filled with just learning to work together as a community that now owns property together.  You will need to deal w/ all sorts of legal and financial responsibilities that you don't have now.   Generally it takes about 3-5 years to smooth out the running of the community.   Taking on a Capital Improvement project like building out a CH ... I mean ... when would you do this?

2.  The CH is the heart of the community.  Delaying this delays the central physical representation of cohousing.

3.   Communities that delay the CH and don't budget it in as a line item in the budget either never build one, or the build out is fairly cheap usually cast off furniture, mis-matched everything.  People don't find the CH to be a friendly place so they don't use it.

4.  Generating capital funds beyond the funds needed in your reserves on top of your condo fees ... O gosh ... that's a stretch for some people.

5.  Do you actually have the talent, ability and THE TIME to take on a project of this size?  We done a number of major maintenance projects here at TVC.  The first weekend there's a crowd to help.  By the 2nd or 3rd weekend... dwindles to very few people.  We now hire for extensive maintenance jobs.

And there's a whole lot more reasons which I'm happy to talk w/ you about but I'm running out of time to send this email.

In re: phone call - suggest sticking to topics in your former email.

I should tell you that Blueberry Hill, Jack's community, built the CH after move-in quite successfully.  HOwever ... they are individual detached homes -- they do not have the same amount of labor needed for an attached community which is considerably more extensive.

AZ

Best --

Ann Zabaldo

Takoma Village Cohousing

Washington, DC

Principal, Cohousing Collaborative, LLC

Falls Church VA

703-688-2646

--
 
 

[abigail weinberg]

FYI: Ann's reaction to Tom Bath's analysis.

 

Abigail Weinberg
Home: 215-842-0268 Cell: 734-474-6958  email: abbywe...@alum.barnard.edu

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