The more things change...
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Korgalla
Oct 21, 2008, 2:47:14 PM10/21/08
to Shaman Round Table
I posted this on the forums during the BC beta 11/29/06. Thought it
would be an interesting read after 2 years of the expansion. Some of
this has changed for the better, but there are things that are still
problems. Anyway, here it is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kalgan: Shaman Concerns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kalgan, thank you in advance for any feedback you can give. Here is a
list of some of the biggest Shaman concerns I have picked up from the
Shaman Forums. (Not necessarily in order of importance.)
1. Shamans have one viable spell school. If are fighting a nature
immune mob, all we can do is heal. If our nature school is
counterspelled, we cannot do ANYTHING. We need a fire or frost nuke.
2. Elemental has no viable mana regeneration. Speccing Elemental means
we cannot take Mana Tide Totem or Shamanistic Rage. While at the same
time, Elemental is the LEAST mana efficient playstyle (spamming
lightning bolt). Unrelenting Storm only ends up being around 50 mp5
with great gear.
3. Lightning Overload is a terrible talent. It rarely procs. (Testing
shows a procrate of 2-3 percent.) In PvP, you will not have time to
sit and spam Lightning Bolts, and in PvE a lucky (unlucky) string of
crits with LO, would pull aggro off Saurfang. Nobody will take this
talent unless they are forced to spec 41.
4. Totem of Wrath is a terrible talent. It is less crit than a Moonkin
aura and immobile. It provides less DPS than a Searing Totem. It has a
prerequisite of Lightning Overload (yuck). And worst of all it is a
TOTEM. This brings me into #5...
5. The totem system is and always has been broken. We cannot dismiss
them and can draw aggro from patrols in raids. We have no way of
knowing if we are about to get out of range unless it is too late.
With the trend of more mobile boss fights, we have to spend mana we
can ill afford on recasting them, only to find the fight is moving
again. They are on the Global Cooldown, so it take upwards of 6
seconds to cast all 4 and then start DPS. They are simply an unwieldy
system that needs to be fixed.
6. Enhancement is a top heavy tree that takes at least 42-43 points to
be viable.
7. There are no talents that improve 2handed weapons after 31 points.
But we STILL have to spend a talent point in order to use them.
8. There are still tanking talents in Enhancement (Toughness
primarily) even after we have been moved away from tanking.
9. Tier 1 of Enhancement has nothing good. Ancestral Knowledge
provides so little mana, it is not enough to cast 1 spell. Shield Spec
is another leftover tanking talent that was no good in the first
place.
10. Restoration is basically fine, but it is bloated. You can easily
put all 61 points into resto and still not fill it up.
11. The Elemental Summon Totems are extremely terrible. With a
prohibitive 20 minute cooldown, they can rarely be used, but that is
ok, because they hardly do anything anyway. The Earth Elemental hits
like a girlscout, and cannot hold aggro for squat. It is basically a
solo spell, no group viability. The Fire Elemental does respectable
damage, but suffers the same fate as most Shamans. It blows all its
mana is about 15 seconds. After that, the rest of the 2 minutes is
wasted. They are useless in PvP because they are tethered to the
totem, all anyone has to do is move out of their tiny range. They
cannot be used in the Arena due to the undeserved 20 minute cooldown.
Bad, Bad spells. Please replace them.
12. Water Shield is underwhelming.
13. Bloodlust is a good spell on a bad cooldown, 5 minutes please.
(and stop nerfing it)
14. Wrath of Air Totem does not scale.
15. Elemental Shamans need a reason to DPS. If we don't get something
akin to Unleashed Rage in the Elemental tree, we will be told to drop
our totems and heal. As a DPS-primary/Healing-secondary hybrid, this
is not acceptable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For the Scream that freed us from Hell's grasp,
For the Hammer that delivers our enemies' Doom,
For the land we have taken as our new home,
For Glory, For Honor, FOR THE HORDE!
-Korgalla
would be an interesting read after 2 years of the expansion. Some of
this has changed for the better, but there are things that are still
problems. Anyway, here it is.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kalgan: Shaman Concerns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Kalgan, thank you in advance for any feedback you can give. Here is a
list of some of the biggest Shaman concerns I have picked up from the
Shaman Forums. (Not necessarily in order of importance.)
1. Shamans have one viable spell school. If are fighting a nature
immune mob, all we can do is heal. If our nature school is
counterspelled, we cannot do ANYTHING. We need a fire or frost nuke.
2. Elemental has no viable mana regeneration. Speccing Elemental means
we cannot take Mana Tide Totem or Shamanistic Rage. While at the same
time, Elemental is the LEAST mana efficient playstyle (spamming
lightning bolt). Unrelenting Storm only ends up being around 50 mp5
with great gear.
3. Lightning Overload is a terrible talent. It rarely procs. (Testing
shows a procrate of 2-3 percent.) In PvP, you will not have time to
sit and spam Lightning Bolts, and in PvE a lucky (unlucky) string of
crits with LO, would pull aggro off Saurfang. Nobody will take this
talent unless they are forced to spec 41.
4. Totem of Wrath is a terrible talent. It is less crit than a Moonkin
aura and immobile. It provides less DPS than a Searing Totem. It has a
prerequisite of Lightning Overload (yuck). And worst of all it is a
TOTEM. This brings me into #5...
5. The totem system is and always has been broken. We cannot dismiss
them and can draw aggro from patrols in raids. We have no way of
knowing if we are about to get out of range unless it is too late.
With the trend of more mobile boss fights, we have to spend mana we
can ill afford on recasting them, only to find the fight is moving
again. They are on the Global Cooldown, so it take upwards of 6
seconds to cast all 4 and then start DPS. They are simply an unwieldy
system that needs to be fixed.
6. Enhancement is a top heavy tree that takes at least 42-43 points to
be viable.
7. There are no talents that improve 2handed weapons after 31 points.
But we STILL have to spend a talent point in order to use them.
8. There are still tanking talents in Enhancement (Toughness
primarily) even after we have been moved away from tanking.
9. Tier 1 of Enhancement has nothing good. Ancestral Knowledge
provides so little mana, it is not enough to cast 1 spell. Shield Spec
is another leftover tanking talent that was no good in the first
place.
10. Restoration is basically fine, but it is bloated. You can easily
put all 61 points into resto and still not fill it up.
11. The Elemental Summon Totems are extremely terrible. With a
prohibitive 20 minute cooldown, they can rarely be used, but that is
ok, because they hardly do anything anyway. The Earth Elemental hits
like a girlscout, and cannot hold aggro for squat. It is basically a
solo spell, no group viability. The Fire Elemental does respectable
damage, but suffers the same fate as most Shamans. It blows all its
mana is about 15 seconds. After that, the rest of the 2 minutes is
wasted. They are useless in PvP because they are tethered to the
totem, all anyone has to do is move out of their tiny range. They
cannot be used in the Arena due to the undeserved 20 minute cooldown.
Bad, Bad spells. Please replace them.
12. Water Shield is underwhelming.
13. Bloodlust is a good spell on a bad cooldown, 5 minutes please.
(and stop nerfing it)
14. Wrath of Air Totem does not scale.
15. Elemental Shamans need a reason to DPS. If we don't get something
akin to Unleashed Rage in the Elemental tree, we will be told to drop
our totems and heal. As a DPS-primary/Healing-secondary hybrid, this
is not acceptable.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
For the Scream that freed us from Hell's grasp,
For the Hammer that delivers our enemies' Doom,
For the land we have taken as our new home,
For Glory, For Honor, FOR THE HORDE!
-Korgalla
Solwolf
Oct 30, 2008, 1:00:43 PM10/30/08
to Shaman Round Table
Who is excited to play a shaman in Wrath?
I'm kind of excited to switch from Elem to Enh. Not really
enthusiastic about Elem at all, sadly.
I'm kind of excited to switch from Elem to Enh. Not really
enthusiastic about Elem at all, sadly.
Farmacy
Oct 30, 2008, 3:28:31 PM10/30/08
to Shaman Round Table
Honestly, im' more excited about my shaman (elem/resto) than my
warlock.
warlock.
Aaron
Oct 30, 2008, 3:30:24 PM10/30/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
I'm excited to see if my Ele shaman can actually deal any semblance of decent damage. I've played in the beta, but only on a premade shaman. And the premade gear is shit PvP gear. I'm curious as to what I can do with some decent heroic/10man epics.
Solwolf
Oct 31, 2008, 11:11:14 AM10/31/08
to Shaman Round Table
I kinda feel the same way, Farm. I was really juiced to switch to my
warlock as a main for Wrath, but I've never been a fan of dot-timer
watching (aff), demo, other than meta, is boring, and I really dislike
being forced into fire for destro. I actually like shadowbolts! If
only incinerate had a better spell graphic. I wish they had found
some way to balance fire and shadow as destro, so the choice is mostly
cosmetic.
I am very curious to see how all of these changes will play out. I
frankly doubt Blizz will be able to balance all of the DPS specs to be
within 5-10% of each other without completely unbalancing what little
balance there is in PvP. How can the same devs that let mages rot as
dpsers in the whole of TBC keep a straight face when they say they'll
balance all the DPS specs to be relatively close to each other?
It feels like the door is swinging too widely the other way in Wrath -
in TBC blizz overestimated the value of "utility" and kept hybrid dps
specs down, as well as "survivable" pure dps class specs. But now I
think they're underestimating the value of utility. If frost mages
and ret paladins and druids (cat or moonkin) truly do have 95% of the
dps of a fire mage or rogue but with massively increased survivability
- why on earth would you *not* spec frost as a mage?
> > > -Korgalla- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
warlock as a main for Wrath, but I've never been a fan of dot-timer
watching (aff), demo, other than meta, is boring, and I really dislike
being forced into fire for destro. I actually like shadowbolts! If
only incinerate had a better spell graphic. I wish they had found
some way to balance fire and shadow as destro, so the choice is mostly
cosmetic.
I am very curious to see how all of these changes will play out. I
frankly doubt Blizz will be able to balance all of the DPS specs to be
within 5-10% of each other without completely unbalancing what little
balance there is in PvP. How can the same devs that let mages rot as
dpsers in the whole of TBC keep a straight face when they say they'll
balance all the DPS specs to be relatively close to each other?
It feels like the door is swinging too widely the other way in Wrath -
in TBC blizz overestimated the value of "utility" and kept hybrid dps
specs down, as well as "survivable" pure dps class specs. But now I
think they're underestimating the value of utility. If frost mages
and ret paladins and druids (cat or moonkin) truly do have 95% of the
dps of a fire mage or rogue but with massively increased survivability
- why on earth would you *not* spec frost as a mage?
>
> - Show quoted text -
Farmacy
Oct 31, 2008, 5:21:40 PM10/31/08
to Shaman Round Table
Yeah... and if moonkins do comparable damage to warlocks... wouldn't 2
moonkin be better that 2 warlocks (for the brez alone)...
I guess I should get my Druid to 70...
Balance is certainly possible for DPS classes... considering how
little changes have such huge impacts.
At this point, they should give up on balancing both PvP and PvE and
just change the damage mechanics in PvE and PvP (in other words, have
different things hit for different amounts... depending on setting).
I'm also worried about Glyphs... some classes seem to have very well
designed and thought out glyphs. (Shaman Glyphs are lackluster at
best... 2% crit and 10% cheaper LBs?) (mages get an extra 5% to
frostbolt, but lose the slowing effect... which doesn't matter in PvE)
I don't think the game is ever going to be balanced... I'm also
worried that my two characters are no longer going to be fun to play.
moonkin be better that 2 warlocks (for the brez alone)...
I guess I should get my Druid to 70...
Balance is certainly possible for DPS classes... considering how
little changes have such huge impacts.
At this point, they should give up on balancing both PvP and PvE and
just change the damage mechanics in PvE and PvP (in other words, have
different things hit for different amounts... depending on setting).
I'm also worried about Glyphs... some classes seem to have very well
designed and thought out glyphs. (Shaman Glyphs are lackluster at
best... 2% crit and 10% cheaper LBs?) (mages get an extra 5% to
frostbolt, but lose the slowing effect... which doesn't matter in PvE)
I don't think the game is ever going to be balanced... I'm also
worried that my two characters are no longer going to be fun to play.
Zarrik
Nov 5, 2008, 3:56:45 PM11/5/08
to Shaman Round Table
Lack of PvP balance is why I started playing WAR for my PvP fix. For
PvE, WoW still wins hands down. Right now I'm leveraging the recruit-
a-friend and am levelling up a pally to 60 and will gift levels to my
hunter to get him to 60 as well. My intent is to have a few options
for when WotLK goes live depending on whether I want to keep playing
healbot, tank, or go dps.
PvE, WoW still wins hands down. Right now I'm leveraging the recruit-
a-friend and am levelling up a pally to 60 and will gift levels to my
hunter to get him to 60 as well. My intent is to have a few options
for when WotLK goes live depending on whether I want to keep playing
healbot, tank, or go dps.
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