Flametongue vs. Totem of Wrath
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Captain Zifna
Jul 18, 2008, 12:55:20 AM7/18/08
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So the Patch notes say:
o Flametongue Totem is now a flat spell damage totem. All ranks have
been modified.
This really makes me question the utility of Totem of Wrath (not that
I haven't already). And overall the Greater Elementals need to be
severely de-wussified if they're to take up totem slots...
It does make me hopeful that Totem of Wrath will be altered (perhaps
to Earth?) and the Greater Elementals will be de-linked from totems,
but I'm not sure if that's overly optimistic or not.
o Flametongue Totem is now a flat spell damage totem. All ranks have
been modified.
This really makes me question the utility of Totem of Wrath (not that
I haven't already). And overall the Greater Elementals need to be
severely de-wussified if they're to take up totem slots...
It does make me hopeful that Totem of Wrath will be altered (perhaps
to Earth?) and the Greater Elementals will be de-linked from totems,
but I'm not sure if that's overly optimistic or not.
Captain Zifna
Jul 18, 2008, 12:55:54 AM7/18/08
to Shaman Round Table
To clarify, the Patch notes from the Alpha to Beta forum, as reposted
onto the EJ boards. Not a live patch.
onto the EJ boards. Not a live patch.
Binkenstein
Jul 18, 2008, 5:28:08 AM7/18/08
to Shaman Round Table
You missed the critical thing that I missed too.
Raid. Wide. Totems.
Need I say more?
Raid. Wide. Totems.
Need I say more?
Captain Zifna
Jul 18, 2008, 8:52:03 AM7/18/08
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Hmph. It's still a stupid talent. No one *likes* it, it's just useful
so people use it. I guess it will still be useful so people will use
it.
And be bitter about not being able to drop Searing Totem.
so people use it. I guess it will still be useful so people will use
it.
And be bitter about not being able to drop Searing Totem.
Solwolf
Jul 18, 2008, 11:00:45 AM7/18/08
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I thought a handy buff to ToW would be to give it a searing totem
effect. However, I've seen searing break CC a little too often, so
perhaps that's not the best combo, either.
As for raid wide totems, there are far, far too many movement and
"spread out" based bosses in TBC (perhaps this will be altered in
WotLK) for raid wide totems to get me all hopped up. Heck, I often
have to recast my totems just so I am in range - nevermind the rest of
the raid.
> > > but I'm not sure if that's overly optimistic or not.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
effect. However, I've seen searing break CC a little too often, so
perhaps that's not the best combo, either.
As for raid wide totems, there are far, far too many movement and
"spread out" based bosses in TBC (perhaps this will be altered in
WotLK) for raid wide totems to get me all hopped up. Heck, I often
have to recast my totems just so I am in range - nevermind the rest of
the raid.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Captain Zifna
Jul 18, 2008, 11:17:13 AM7/18/08
to Shaman Round Table
Also true. I can't feel raid-wide totems will really reduce the number
of Shaman needed, just the headache. I mean... when in Black Temple
can you cover all ranged dps with one set of totems?
-Teron
-Bloodboil
-Reliquary
-1-stack strat on Shahraz
I think that's it?
Hyjal's worse, if anything. Sunwell... yeah, maybe on the later
bosses, not sure. Can tell you it's not the first three.
The advantage comes more from the fact that you can "optimally" have
your 16 dps split in any way between melee and ranged dps rather than
having to choose 5/10, 10/5, or a nonoptimized raid.
of Shaman needed, just the headache. I mean... when in Black Temple
can you cover all ranged dps with one set of totems?
-Teron
-Bloodboil
-Reliquary
-1-stack strat on Shahraz
I think that's it?
Hyjal's worse, if anything. Sunwell... yeah, maybe on the later
bosses, not sure. Can tell you it's not the first three.
The advantage comes more from the fact that you can "optimally" have
your 16 dps split in any way between melee and ranged dps rather than
having to choose 5/10, 10/5, or a nonoptimized raid.
Farmacy
Jul 18, 2008, 4:55:21 PM7/18/08
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Yeah, I saw some of the totem changes... and was suprised.
Honestly, they are going to HAVE to do something to ToW... aren't
they? or will they just leave another dead talent in our tree?
I guess we will see.
Honestly, they are going to HAVE to do something to ToW... aren't
they? or will they just leave another dead talent in our tree?
I guess we will see.
Farmacy
Jul 18, 2008, 4:58:23 PM7/18/08
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Maybe this is a crazy idea, but could they be "unlinking" the totems
from elements?
from elements?
MedicineMan
Jul 18, 2008, 6:45:24 PM7/18/08
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Nice new sig on the EJ boards, Binkenstein.
On topic, I'm pretty sure there are going to be more modifications to
both totems and totem-influencing talents. I've heard that talents
affecting the old versions of flametongue, stoneskin, and windfury are
still in the game at this point of the beta. A sure sign that Blizz
isn't done quite yet.
On topic, I'm pretty sure there are going to be more modifications to
both totems and totem-influencing talents. I've heard that talents
affecting the old versions of flametongue, stoneskin, and windfury are
still in the game at this point of the beta. A sure sign that Blizz
isn't done quite yet.
Solwolf
Jul 18, 2008, 7:24:22 PM7/18/08
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I'm really curious to see if Elem will be really raid viable in
WotLK. I'm sorely tempted to go Warlock or Mage (but my guild is mage
packed already) for Wrath, but the warlock changes underwhelm me,
especially for destruction. I like nuking, not watching dot timers,
and I really like the look and feel of shadowbolt.
I hate making decisions based on incomplete information.
WotLK. I'm sorely tempted to go Warlock or Mage (but my guild is mage
packed already) for Wrath, but the warlock changes underwhelm me,
especially for destruction. I like nuking, not watching dot timers,
and I really like the look and feel of shadowbolt.
I hate making decisions based on incomplete information.
Farmacy
Jul 19, 2008, 7:54:45 AM7/19/08
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Honestly, if you went Destro, it'd likely be Incinerate spam.
0/41/30 might be an interesting raid spec, though... I'm not sure what
3 talent points i'd give up on the felgaurd... but it would be a
decent build. I'm currently 0/44/17 on my lock for various reasons.
You'd be giving up the 15% shadow buff from sac pet, but you'd pick up
all the fun bonuses that go along with having a felguard out.
As an old affliction warlock, I have to say that it's nice to see DoTs
looking more viable. I don't think it will ever be a good enough spec
for raiding. Really, they should have a Shadow tree, Fire Tree and
Demo tree. When I'm specced full Destro (21/40) I can pump out as much
DPS in fire damage as I can in shadow, it all depends on my rotation
(and whether or not we have a scorch mage).
The Warlock changes don't look bad, but they don't look great either.
I'm going to be interested to see how they turn out (and I don't even
think we know what the 51 point affliction talent is yet)
0/41/30 might be an interesting raid spec, though... I'm not sure what
3 talent points i'd give up on the felgaurd... but it would be a
decent build. I'm currently 0/44/17 on my lock for various reasons.
You'd be giving up the 15% shadow buff from sac pet, but you'd pick up
all the fun bonuses that go along with having a felguard out.
As an old affliction warlock, I have to say that it's nice to see DoTs
looking more viable. I don't think it will ever be a good enough spec
for raiding. Really, they should have a Shadow tree, Fire Tree and
Demo tree. When I'm specced full Destro (21/40) I can pump out as much
DPS in fire damage as I can in shadow, it all depends on my rotation
(and whether or not we have a scorch mage).
The Warlock changes don't look bad, but they don't look great either.
I'm going to be interested to see how they turn out (and I don't even
think we know what the 51 point affliction talent is yet)
Korgalla
Jul 22, 2008, 9:36:17 PM7/22/08
to Shaman Round Table
Wrath of air is getting changed to Spell Haste. So there won't be any
conflicts.
conflicts.
Solwolf
Jul 23, 2008, 12:05:27 PM7/23/08
to Shaman Round Table
no, there is a conflict unless they've change it already:
Flametongue totem should give your group the flametongue buff of
+spell damage
ToW gives +3 hit/crit
Both are fire totems.
So an elemental shaman has to chose between buffing his group with
+dmg or with +hit and crit, but not both as before. This change makes
the truly marginal ToW even more marginal. Few (but the elemental
shaman) gear around ToW's +hit.
Sure, we can now buff with +20% haste, which is darned nice. But it
is unfortunate that 1) ToW is so lackluster, especially for its place
in the tree and 2) we now have a more competitive totem for many
fights which no longer provides the shaman himself with any benefit at
all.
> > > > isn't done quite yet.- Hide quoted text -
Flametongue totem should give your group the flametongue buff of
+spell damage
ToW gives +3 hit/crit
Both are fire totems.
So an elemental shaman has to chose between buffing his group with
+dmg or with +hit and crit, but not both as before. This change makes
the truly marginal ToW even more marginal. Few (but the elemental
shaman) gear around ToW's +hit.
Sure, we can now buff with +20% haste, which is darned nice. But it
is unfortunate that 1) ToW is so lackluster, especially for its place
in the tree and 2) we now have a more competitive totem for many
fights which no longer provides the shaman himself with any benefit at
all.
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