Disturbing Parallels

[Korgalla]

Yeah, this is kind of a doomsaying/speculation post. I would like to
preface it with the fact that I have so far liked the direction they
are going with Shamans and feel they have fixed the problems (bugs
notwithstanding) that we had in TBC. However, it seems that what we
are getting so far is what we needed in TBC and not much is being
addressed to bring us in line for WotLK. We are still a step behind
other classes and I really don't want to see the past repeated. (This
is all just my opinion, of course, and should be taken with a grain of
salt, especially considering I am not in beta.)

On to my main point. I am seeing a little bit of a trend going on with
Blizzard that kinda scares me. First consider Mages from Naxx -> TBC.
In Naxx Mages had rolling ignites. This lead to Mage stacking by
progression raids to exploit the bug and the perception was that Naxx
would be impossible without rolling ignites. When they fixed the bug,
this was of course shown to be a misconception. However the stigma had
already been applied that Mages were essential. For TBC in response to
this perception (my speculation not proven fact,) Blizzard added the
damage tax. As a result, Mages were far behind their previous level of
power and still have not fully recovered.

Recently, with the racial ability changes they nerfed Will of the
Forsaken, and the Forsaken have a lesser spell resist than other
races, "To offset somewhat the general perception that undead are the
uber-race." There's that word again... Perception. Blizzard has shown
that they will nerf things that they believe to be perfectly fine
based on the public perception that they are overpowered/necessary.
(Case in point: They stated over and over, time and again that they
believed Warlocks and Fear were fine. Yet they nerfed them multiple
times in many different ways because of public outcry.)

Currently in Sunwell (Naxx of TBC,) guilds are stacking Shamans for,
among other things, rolling Bloodlusts. In what seems to be a mirror
image of what happened with Mages in Classic. Aside from rolling
Ignites being a bug and Bloodlust being a class feature. I am worried
that due to the "Perception" that up to 5 Shamans are necessary for
progression in Sunwell, that in WotLK, we will be left behind (even
further than before). They have shown already that they want to share
the buffing around in giving other classes similar non-stacking
versions of our buffs. IE {Unleashed Race - Trueshot Aura,} {Strength
of Earth - Horn of Winter,} {Windfury Totem - Improved Icy Chill,}
etc. The problem with this is that many of the buffs we provide are
totems while other classes' versions are auras or on-hit abilities
that have better ranges, mobility, etc.

I would like to see our version be a little bit better than theirs to
compensate for the failings of totems or see a drastic change to how
totems function. Totem of Wrath is a good example of what I mean.
Since it is a Totem, it is harder to deploy than other similar
effects, but it has 2 different things that it does. That extra effect
helps set it apart from say Divine Spirit. If we could get a secondary
effect on all of our totems, it would definitely help us keep our raid
spot.

Now I know this has been kinda gloomy and kinda conspiracy-nutcasey
and I'm not trying to say, "OMG Death Knights are going to take ur
raidz." Like I said, I do like what I've seen so far, and am excited
to see what is coming. I just don't want to see this class left behind
again.

Anyway, hope I didn't break anyone's eyes.

Bye.

[Solwolf]

I see what you're saying, and agree somewhat.

I think warlock damage in TBC was a direct result of overbuffing to
make up for vanilla wow's poor dps ability.

I think shaman suffered in pvp in TBC partially because of the
unfounded "nerf shaman" posts from the alliance three years ago.

I think druids got buffed greatly in TBC (both resto and feral and to
a lesser extent moonkin) to make up for the horrid initial
implementation of the class. overbuffed for ferals, but then brought
down to a more manageable level.

But the nice thing that they're trying to do in WotLK, which was
surely NOT the goal in TBC, is to create role-equality. If Blizz
follows through, shaman dps specs will be as competitive as mage/
warlock dps. This is a monumental change and gives me great hope that
they'll continue to work to un-gimp hybrid dps specs for the first
time ever. We lose some of our uniqueness in buffing, but gain the
ability to compete for DPS on skill.

I'm personally excited to see how it will play out.

[Farmacy]

A few thoughts:

#1 This was a well thought out and great post. I agree with you that
Blizzard is more concerned with perception than reality. I think they
understand that as well, and are working on perception getting closer
to reality in the xpac (which is why they are alot more vocal this
time around, both about buffs and nerfs).

#2 The main problem any and every class has is that utility either
brings too much power or too little. Shamans pre-bc were a poor mans
paladin. Their utility was tied into having one of them in a group,
and no more. Now, bloodlust is a huge boost (well, somewhat... depends
on the situation) as is leatherworking... it's scary how many top
rated guilds have 17 lvl 350 LWers on a raid. Haste helps. The same is
true of warlocks. 1 warlock casts CoE, and the rest get to add a
"free" damage curse to their rotation. Curse of Doom is an extra crit
SB for me every 60 seconds... It's not a huge boost to my DPS, but
it's big (about 160). I can only do this because we bring 2-4 warlocks
a raid... rolling ignites were the same way.

I'm not sure where the game is headed, or what will be good or bad...
I'm hoping that every class can choose any tree and build a viable
raiding spec out of it. I look forward to seeing the end product, and
I'm curious if I will even still be playing. I'm not sure totems will
EVER work well enough, but I have hope they can fix them.

I think the most amazing thing about WoW is that one small coefficient
change can make or break a class. I'm curious as to how much DPS an
elemental shaman would be doing now if LB was still a 3 second base
time cast (haste and damage would both scale better). They would
almost be chart topping with access to Sunwell quality gear (i
think)... Thus, any class can be OPed or nerfed with one number, and
it's impossible to know what blizzard will change.

Every class has its strengths and weaknesses, and it's hard to say
that any class can't get into a raid (and any hybrid won't be welcome
as any spec), and I'm hoping that trend continues... then again, it
may not. I guess we will see.

[Aaron]

I agree with you completely. Great read, great post.

[Korgalla]

Thanks for the support. I agree that they seem to be leveling the
playing field this time around, and that is a definite breath of fresh
air. Hex, Thunderstorm, the new snare cleansing Earthbind Totem (RIP
Spectral Transformation...) Windshock and Feral Spirit's stuns are
some much needed control enhancers that I am really glad to see and
should help immensely. Elemental Oath, Eye of the Storm, the new
Enhancement itemization, Spellpower, etc. really help round out our
specs (I really have no experience with Resto, but it seems to need a
little work) and make them seem like real, valid trees. I am looking
forward to not feeling like a little kid in daddy's shoes pretending
to be a real class.

One thing I would like to see done is a restructuring of the early
Elemental tree. I always end up wasting one point in Imp Fire Nova or
Call of Flame just to get into Tier 5. Also, if I want to get
Thunderstorm, I have to spend 52 points in the tree or leave out a
point in Lava Flows in order to fill up Tidal Mastery in resto.
Perhaps if Elemental Precision was a 2 point talent. Also, Unrelenting
Storm should be a 3 point talent. There is no reason we should have to
choose between Storm's Reach and more m/5. I have never been able to
fit more than 3 points in there.
Oh and speaking of Tidal Mastery, that really needs to be a tier or
two lower. It is a real stretch to get but is one of the most valuable
talents to an Elemental Shaman. I would ideally like a 51/5/15 spec
which is inconceivable at this point due to how far Tidal Mastery is
into resto. Also, it would be nice to not have to waste points in
resto that do nothing for my DPS. If Tidal Mastery was in Tier 3,
perhaps they could move Nature's Blessing to Tier 2 and make it
Spellpower instead of just Healing. Then add a 2 point talent to Tier
1 that, I dunno, adds more m/5 to Water Shield or something.

In the Enhancement tree, the only real complaint I have is bloat. For
a raiding spec you need to put a minimum of 61 points in there for max
DPS/Raid Buffing. That doesn't even get any survival talents like
Toughness or Anticipation, so good luck if you eat a cleave. Ideally I
would want 21 points in Elemental for Elemental Warding, Elemental
Devastation and Reverbation, but that is clearly impossible. I would
say, get rid of Imp Stormstrike and just buff SS with it's effect
baseline (change the charges to a 6 second 10% debuff.) Combine Static
Shock and Imp Shields. Combine Imp Windfury Totem with Enhancing
Totems or Elemental Weapons. Oh and while we're at it, combine Earth's
Grasp and Guardian Totems. Much slimmer.

I really don't know much about resto. But I noticed Tier 3 is a little
bloated; everything there is needed. Though Imp Water Shield might be
more of a liability than a benefit. It shouldn't use charges. It seems
like with the removal of downranking, Healing Way is much less useful,
but I have no idea what to do with it. I like how they are taking a
little of the focus off of Chain Heal, but they need to address the
fact that Healing Wave and Lesser Healing Wave are both too expensive.
Also needz moar instants. Resto will never be able to compete in Arena
without some form of instant cast that isn't on a 3 min cooldown. I
suggest Water Shock. It's on the same shared 6 second cooldown with
the other shocks and works like a healing Flame Shock. Front load a
heal that's around the same as Lesser Healing Wave and then adds a 12
sec HoT. Hell with that you could do a Healing version of Lava Burst
and say that your next LHW that hits the target auto-crits and
consumes the HoT. There, I just solved most of Resto's problems. Oh
and Healing Tide totem 'nuff said.

Anyway, as you can probably see, I really wish I was able to post on
the beta boards. If anyone likes anything here, go ahead and post it
over there.

[Korgalla]

I wonder if one of the Devs saw my Water Shock idea when they were
thinking about Riptide? I know they secretly come here sometimes. It
is almost exact (though I meant for the HoT bit to be a little bigger
than 150, lol.) and the synergy with Chain Heal is pretty nice. Maybe
if the Chain Heal spread the HoT to it's extra targets... That would
be kinda neat. Like it is pushing the HoT off the first target onto
the others.

[Korgalla]

Oh in case anyone missed it. Spirit link is getting trashed.
Replacement is:

"Riptide (Level 80 rank) - Heals a friendly target for 795-826 and
another 150 over 15 sec. Your next Chain Heal cast on that primary
target within 15 sec will consume the healing over time effect and
increase the amount of the Chain Heal by 25%. 18% base mana. 6 second
cooldown. (0.402 coefficient for those who know math)" -Koraa

Also Koraa clarified the HoT portion:

"It heals 159 every 3 sec for 15 sec. The entire HoT duration healing
is 795, which scales."

[JC McCormick]

Hehe, 150 over 15 seconds would be silly.  :)

[Farmacy]

Interesting... it almost seems like they are trying to build a cast
rotation for shaman...

Riptide improves chain heal, chain heal improves healing wave, crit
healing wave is a poor man's chain heal...

I wasn't ever clear how spirit link was going to work, so I'm glad to
see an instant HoT.

[Solwolf]

With GC's recent "LB might be too good" comment in the shaman beta
forum, are we still concerned that LB simply will not scale? It's
looking more and more to me like we're back in the TBC model where
elem shaman were quite competitive in t4, then slowly dropped off as
gear improved.

It feels like blizz is overestimating the increase to our damage that
we'll see thanks to the inclusion of Nature damage on CoE and its ilk.

I can say that, after playing a bit as enhancement in the beta,
enhancement is substantially more "fun" than Elem. Elem got no new
mechanics, the addition of 2 new button pushes (100% increase!) from 2
buttons (LB/CL) to 4 (LB, CL, Flameshock, LvB), and no effective way
to deal with lockout or melee in pvp (thunderstorm is only effective
against paladins and other shaman).

While enhancement got a whole new playstyle - the battlemage. Enh
feels like a shaman should feel IMO - smacking faces with a pair of
axes, shocking, and getting off instant LBs or Heals when MW chains.

On a straight ability difference, here's what WotLK brings to elem v.
enh:

Elem:

new nuke on a cooldown which requires flameshock to be fully effective
thunderstorm which will have no direct dps increase in pve and limted
(but fun!) use in pvp.
5% more melee crits (subspec into enh instead of resto)
a new buff which, like all non-mage buffs, is completely replaceable
30% less dmg when silenced/stunned (if pvp specced)

Enh:

maelstrom weapon
+100% to spell crits
summonable pets for pvp buffs, a stun, self healing, and as a dps
timer
1:1 conversion of Int to AP, and AP to Spellpower (see +100% spell
crits)
new instant, offhand strike
15 CD to cleanse snares (if talented)
self-only SS charges coupled with double the charges and a lowered
cooldown

I'm not trying to argue that the grass is necessarily greener - but
enh feels like a revitalized pve spec and is a ton of fun to use when
leveling, while elemental feels like the same old, same old. And I'm
truly concerned about our lack of proper scaling and lack of an on-
demand mana return function like mages, warlocks, druids, and hunters
have.

> > > > over there.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Solwolf]

[Grutak]

Somewhere, between the information(WWS, parses, theorycraft, damage
meters) that we have, and whatever counterpart Blizzard has, there is
a huge disconnect. It's just not possible for the 2 data sets to be
that far apart. I'm quite distressed about this. The xpac was going
to allow me to make my shaman my main again(is resto druid for the
guild atm). Guess I'll stickwith being a kick ass healer.

The only consulation I have is knowing blizzard will eventually get it
right(right, being at acceptable levels, not neccessary balanced
levels). They managed to fix these same issues in BC(somewhat), so I
have faith that they will fix them this time. Or atleast, 2 months
from now.

[Farmacy]

I'm curious as to what they have been thinking with shaman...

Elemental got little love and a marginally variant playstyle (but
without extra reach on flameshock... it's going to be harder to
justify)

Resto has a 51 point talent NOT DESIGNED FOR RAIDING. I have 51 talent
points in Resto as is... I might put 8 outside of the tree.. but I
need a viable 51 point talent.

[Solwolf]

I think it's interesting that (riptide notwithstanding, since I
haven't played around as resto on the beta) both Thunderstorm and
Spirit Wolves are 51 pt talents with a primary use of pvp. While the
8% mana gain looks useful as a pve elem shaman, and the extra dps of
wolves (along with their heal) is handy for enhancement, both talents
will see much more use and be much more useful in pvp.

It would be great if both DPS specs had a 51pt talent that we could
get excited about. Don't get me wrong, if I stay elem (doubtful) I
greatly look forward to blasting mind-controlling priests off of the
cliff at the Lumber Mill, but that's about it.

> > from now.- Hide quoted text -

[Farmacy]

That is an interesting point... maybe enhance will go 21/40?

Riptide is definitely a more PvP focused talent (although the chain
heal component is raid friendly)

I can see it be useful on heavy raid damage fights, as you could
riptide a rogue before the AOE damage, and then bounce the chain heal
off of them.