WWI...
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iapetes
Jun 28, 2008, 9:44:59 PM6/28/08
to Shaman Round Table
As you're probably aware, WWI confirms that totems will be raid wide.
It also confirms that hex will be a new spell- they're locked into it
now, which is great. And lastly, the one thing we were not aware of:
The consolidation of totems.
It also confirms that hex will be a new spell- they're locked into it
now, which is great. And lastly, the one thing we were not aware of:
The consolidation of totems.
JC McCormick
Jun 28, 2008, 10:38:50 PM6/28/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
I was also not aware of a few other things, namely Earthliving being a complete replacement for Rockbiter, and the removal of Windfury as an imbue. I'm guessing it's now more like a Power Word: Fortitude or Arcane Intellect type buff, which is both amazing and scary.
I do hope they don't feel the need to nerf it, but I think that if they don't nerf it, it could potentially overpower the class. I.E., sporting an imbue and Windfury at the same time, though it looks like the imbues are getting considerable revision. What's going to replace Windfury Weapon, anyway?
The streamlining of totems pretty much encompassed all the complaints I had on the system based on their duration and cast requirements. That's several steps forward in balancing that aspect of the class which got me to quit playing.
As an aside, I'm a little peeved about the paladin stuff. Could we get more vague?
I do hope they don't feel the need to nerf it, but I think that if they don't nerf it, it could potentially overpower the class. I.E., sporting an imbue and Windfury at the same time, though it looks like the imbues are getting considerable revision. What's going to replace Windfury Weapon, anyway?
The streamlining of totems pretty much encompassed all the complaints I had on the system based on their duration and cast requirements. That's several steps forward in balancing that aspect of the class which got me to quit playing.
As an aside, I'm a little peeved about the paladin stuff. Could we get more vague?
iapetes
Jun 29, 2008, 2:59:27 PM6/29/08
to Shaman Round Table
Yeah, no surprise there though, since we dont have talents yet. At
least now I know of one of our new spells. I just hope it's baseline.
least now I know of one of our new spells. I just hope it's baseline.
Solwolf
Jun 30, 2008, 11:07:41 AM6/30/08
to Shaman Round Table
is it confirmed that WF will no longer be a weapon enchant on the
Shaman's weapon? I'd hate to see shaman self-only weapon buffs turned
into magic effects that are therefore purgeable like paladin seals.
I'm all for WF being a buff when created by WF totem, but against WF
as a self-buff for the shaman, unless it is a non-magic effect.
I'm curious to see what other totems they'll consolidate. Wrath of
Air + Tranquil Air, please!
Raid-wide totems scare me a little.
Shaman's weapon? I'd hate to see shaman self-only weapon buffs turned
into magic effects that are therefore purgeable like paladin seals.
I'm all for WF being a buff when created by WF totem, but against WF
as a self-buff for the shaman, unless it is a non-magic effect.
I'm curious to see what other totems they'll consolidate. Wrath of
Air + Tranquil Air, please!
Raid-wide totems scare me a little.
iapetes
Jun 30, 2008, 9:29:53 PM6/30/08
to Shaman Round Table
Just cus WF wont be a wep buff doesn't mean it will be dispellable. I
don't think any totem effect is dispellable.
don't think any totem effect is dispellable.
JC McCormick
Jun 30, 2008, 11:28:42 PM6/30/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
From how I gathered, Windfury will now be like Gift of the Wild, Power Word: Fortitude, etc. Meaning it will stack with the Elemental Weapon spells. In other words, if Windfury is dispellable, the Elemental Weapon spells won't be. Just Windfury.
My guess is that they are just going to get rid of redundant totems. Rebundle Windwall in with Stoneskin, for example.
My take on raid-wide totems is that it will create more awareness of totem configurations and placement, which is, in my book, a level of complexity that the class should have always had. Note that when I say complexity, I don't mean "needless tediousness". I mean that totem placement should have always been a tactical element of the class, given as how they're essentially aura broadcast towers.
The thing is, the class may need to have more mobility options introduced because of totem logistics-oriented tactics. Everyone loves to throw around the whole "now ull only need teh 3 shamunz per rade". The reality for my guild is that, more often than not, we don't raid with shamans anymore except on wonderfully rare occasions. That means that poor Alpha/Omega Shaman who may or may not show up will be expected to be running around the battlefield dropping this or that totem.
In case anyone was wondering about the raiding with no shamans thing, it's just that four of our mainstays just aren't on much anymore. And 'course there are a few of us in guild who are like me, and rerolled on TBC. We'd take 'em if we had 'em.
My guess is that they are just going to get rid of redundant totems. Rebundle Windwall in with Stoneskin, for example.
My take on raid-wide totems is that it will create more awareness of totem configurations and placement, which is, in my book, a level of complexity that the class should have always had. Note that when I say complexity, I don't mean "needless tediousness". I mean that totem placement should have always been a tactical element of the class, given as how they're essentially aura broadcast towers.
The thing is, the class may need to have more mobility options introduced because of totem logistics-oriented tactics. Everyone loves to throw around the whole "now ull only need teh 3 shamunz per rade". The reality for my guild is that, more often than not, we don't raid with shamans anymore except on wonderfully rare occasions. That means that poor Alpha/Omega Shaman who may or may not show up will be expected to be running around the battlefield dropping this or that totem.
In case anyone was wondering about the raiding with no shamans thing, it's just that four of our mainstays just aren't on much anymore. And 'course there are a few of us in guild who are like me, and rerolled on TBC. We'd take 'em if we had 'em.
Solwolf
Jul 1, 2008, 2:28:35 PM7/1/08
to Shaman Round Table
this is true - the thought of it being a seal got my hackles up.
I wonder if self-cast WF, Flametongue, etc... will be buffs and not
imbues, too. If so, shaman could finally use sharpening stones and
oils and such while still maintaining WF or Rockbiter.
I wonder if self-cast WF, Flametongue, etc... will be buffs and not
imbues, too. If so, shaman could finally use sharpening stones and
oils and such while still maintaining WF or Rockbiter.
JC McCormick
Jul 1, 2008, 4:01:59 PM7/1/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
I think Flametongue, Earthliving, and Frostbrand are all imbues. Windfury is a buff and Rockbiter has been replaced by Earthliving. It's a big change - if they don't supply the class with new melee-oriented imbues then enhancement will definitely have to get ready for a new spin.
iapetes
Jul 1, 2008, 4:42:07 PM7/1/08
to Shaman Round Table
I'm expecting all 4 wep imbues to be changed to undispellable buffs,
basically functioning the same way they do now, but while allowing
druids to take advantage of WF and let all shamans use wep buffs with
their own imbues. Remember, now flametongue and earthliving will be
important buffs to elemental and resto shamans, so important that they
are the primary separating factor between elemental and resto shamans
aside from talents (what with the spell power change and all). As it
is now you wouldn't be able to use weapon oils in conjunction with
these necessary buffs. This also would mean that enh shamans would
start using sharpening stones. Because the purposes of this change lie
in retaining the sort of functionality Shamans already have when the
spell power change goes into effect, and helping feral druids, I see
no reason for there to be any 'trade'. I seriously doubt any weapon
buff will be dispellable.
basically functioning the same way they do now, but while allowing
druids to take advantage of WF and let all shamans use wep buffs with
their own imbues. Remember, now flametongue and earthliving will be
important buffs to elemental and resto shamans, so important that they
are the primary separating factor between elemental and resto shamans
aside from talents (what with the spell power change and all). As it
is now you wouldn't be able to use weapon oils in conjunction with
these necessary buffs. This also would mean that enh shamans would
start using sharpening stones. Because the purposes of this change lie
in retaining the sort of functionality Shamans already have when the
spell power change goes into effect, and helping feral druids, I see
no reason for there to be any 'trade'. I seriously doubt any weapon
buff will be dispellable.
Farmacy
Jul 2, 2008, 10:29:25 AM7/2/08
to Shaman Round Table
I think the weapon buffs will be the equivalent of mage/warlock
"armor"... which is becoming undispellable in the patch.
"armor"... which is becoming undispellable in the patch.
Solwolf
Jul 2, 2008, 3:33:08 PM7/2/08
to Shaman Round Table
Just curious.
Of the "active" posters here, am I the only one that still mains a
shaman? I wonder what % of the shaman board posters gave up on the
class as a main either before or during TBC.
> > buff will be dispellable.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of the "active" posters here, am I the only one that still mains a
shaman? I wonder what % of the shaman board posters gave up on the
class as a main either before or during TBC.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Farmacy
Jul 2, 2008, 6:39:54 PM7/2/08
to Shaman Round Table
My shaman is geared for t6 healing and DPS... my warlock is geared for
t6.
I play whatever the guild needs. I prefer the Shaman in everything but
group stuff (5 mans - raiding).
Pvp and farming I like Farm better.
t6.
I play whatever the guild needs. I prefer the Shaman in everything but
group stuff (5 mans - raiding).
Pvp and farming I like Farm better.
iapetes
Jul 2, 2008, 6:42:19 PM7/2/08
to Shaman Round Table
A lot, which I always found pretty sad. Zifna still mains her shaman
at least though! She just doesn't visit here much anymore.
TBH, I'm hoping WotLK revives a lot of people's interest in the class,
including you guys. From what we know so far, I feel pretty optimistic
about shammies now.
at least though! She just doesn't visit here much anymore.
TBH, I'm hoping WotLK revives a lot of people's interest in the class,
including you guys. From what we know so far, I feel pretty optimistic
about shammies now.
JC McCormick
Jul 2, 2008, 7:46:21 PM7/2/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
There's really no sense in playing a busted class, even though I love the game itself. You guys all should know by now that I have been ok with shamans for a bit, but have just held back because of my exhaustion regarding dealing with totems.
What I find amusing is all the comments I got then, and now, "maybe you should just play another class." For one thing, I ranted on forums for a year or more and may have had my part in stirring up a lot of the earlier "riots", and I made an entire mailing list to discuss the class. For another, I never got a single comment of that nature while I was playing a shaman as my main.
For example, a few weeks ago while we were on Vashj; me, on my paladin:
Rogue: "Just totem twist and give us both GoA and WF"
Shaman: "What is totem twisting anyway?"
Me: "That's when you lay down WF, let it pulse once, then immediately lay down GoA. Then lay down WF about eight seconds later. Personally, I find it tedious as shit."
Rogue: "Huh. You'd deliberately not play the class to its full potential?"
Me: "Totems are annoying as hell, why make them more of a nightmare?"
Rogue: "Maybe you should roll another class."
Sadly, although that as a joke would fit my sense of humor perfectly, I really don't think he was joking. So I just sat there thinking, "Maybe I should mention to him that I did, a year and a half ago."
I can't make an informed decision about whether or not I will go back to shaman. Hex is more or less a similar spell to HoJ, which means it isn't exciting me much other than the flavor aspect. And of course, not a drop of paladin development info has been divulged yet beyond the fact that they're giving the class a reactive heal and NOT giving them any sort of area or heal-over-time spell. So, not so thrilling.
I have a 70 hunter and druid too, so they're on the potentials list.
And I might go DK.
What I find amusing is all the comments I got then, and now, "maybe you should just play another class." For one thing, I ranted on forums for a year or more and may have had my part in stirring up a lot of the earlier "riots", and I made an entire mailing list to discuss the class. For another, I never got a single comment of that nature while I was playing a shaman as my main.
For example, a few weeks ago while we were on Vashj; me, on my paladin:
Rogue: "Just totem twist and give us both GoA and WF"
Shaman: "What is totem twisting anyway?"
Me: "That's when you lay down WF, let it pulse once, then immediately lay down GoA. Then lay down WF about eight seconds later. Personally, I find it tedious as shit."
Rogue: "Huh. You'd deliberately not play the class to its full potential?"
Me: "Totems are annoying as hell, why make them more of a nightmare?"
Rogue: "Maybe you should roll another class."
Sadly, although that as a joke would fit my sense of humor perfectly, I really don't think he was joking. So I just sat there thinking, "Maybe I should mention to him that I did, a year and a half ago."
I can't make an informed decision about whether or not I will go back to shaman. Hex is more or less a similar spell to HoJ, which means it isn't exciting me much other than the flavor aspect. And of course, not a drop of paladin development info has been divulged yet beyond the fact that they're giving the class a reactive heal and NOT giving them any sort of area or heal-over-time spell. So, not so thrilling.
I have a 70 hunter and druid too, so they're on the potentials list.
And I might go DK.
Solwolf
Jul 2, 2008, 11:15:17 PM7/2/08
to Shaman Round Table
That's a pretty funny quote.
I know part of me really wants to respec enhance for WotLK and keep my
shaman, but another part screams "learn from vanilla and tbc" and
makes me want to warlock.
I know part of me really wants to respec enhance for WotLK and keep my
shaman, but another part screams "learn from vanilla and tbc" and
makes me want to warlock.
Farmacy
Jul 3, 2008, 10:45:05 AM7/3/08
to Shaman Round Table
That's why I leveled a warlock.
For pure damage they are much more fun... although, it's funny/
interesting to note how much my DPS changes from a 5 man to a raid
setting.
Every single caster debuff except SS helps me (and improved Frost?
whatever it is). Since I spam SB and Immolate, I get added DPS from
CoE, CoS, Misery, Spriests 15% shadow damage buff, Improved Shadow
Bolt procs, Scorch. Basically, it takes my 3-4k shadowbolt crits and
gives them the potential to go up to 9-10k. Which is fairly
ridiculous.
If they added nature to CoE (Which they should... and Holy)... and
then added in a Holy/Nature damage weapon buff (Sanctity Wrath [or
something])... then my elemental shaman would have a small measure of
compatibility.
It's amazing that they spent so much time making Shaman buffs useful
to everyone else, and how little time they spent making other peoples
buffs useful to shaman, and I think that's the crux of the problem.
Shaman have always been a support class, and for whatever reason, that
means they get overlooked in all things.
For pure damage they are much more fun... although, it's funny/
interesting to note how much my DPS changes from a 5 man to a raid
setting.
Every single caster debuff except SS helps me (and improved Frost?
whatever it is). Since I spam SB and Immolate, I get added DPS from
CoE, CoS, Misery, Spriests 15% shadow damage buff, Improved Shadow
Bolt procs, Scorch. Basically, it takes my 3-4k shadowbolt crits and
gives them the potential to go up to 9-10k. Which is fairly
ridiculous.
If they added nature to CoE (Which they should... and Holy)... and
then added in a Holy/Nature damage weapon buff (Sanctity Wrath [or
something])... then my elemental shaman would have a small measure of
compatibility.
It's amazing that they spent so much time making Shaman buffs useful
to everyone else, and how little time they spent making other peoples
buffs useful to shaman, and I think that's the crux of the problem.
Shaman have always been a support class, and for whatever reason, that
means they get overlooked in all things.
Richard A. Millard
Jul 3, 2008, 3:49:54 PM7/3/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
Wow... interesting stuff. Sounds like they're doing another round of "ease of living" improvements for shaman, which is definitely a good thing.
Drats
Jul 7, 2008, 3:56:29 PM7/7/08
to Shaman Round Table
I am getting kinda tired of totem twisting.
Not the actual totem twisting and struggling to figure out shock
rotation and whatnot. I'm getting tired of having to buff multiple
times every 10 seconds when other classes have 15-30m buff and can't
put them on correctly. It's just silly. 3.0 can't come fast enough.
The beta will be out soon, I doubt I'll take place in it but I'm
looking forward to people testing out these new shaman changes.
Specifically the pvp changes, enhancement is still really really
lacking in this respect.
On Jul 3, 3:49 pm, "Richard A. Millard" <r.a.mill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow... interesting stuff. Sounds like they're doing another round of "ease
> of living" improvements for shaman, which is definitely a good thing.
>
Not the actual totem twisting and struggling to figure out shock
rotation and whatnot. I'm getting tired of having to buff multiple
times every 10 seconds when other classes have 15-30m buff and can't
put them on correctly. It's just silly. 3.0 can't come fast enough.
The beta will be out soon, I doubt I'll take place in it but I'm
looking forward to people testing out these new shaman changes.
Specifically the pvp changes, enhancement is still really really
lacking in this respect.
On Jul 3, 3:49 pm, "Richard A. Millard" <r.a.mill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow... interesting stuff. Sounds like they're doing another round of "ease
> of living" improvements for shaman, which is definitely a good thing.
>
Drats
Jul 7, 2008, 3:56:29 PM7/7/08
to Shaman Round Table
I am getting kinda tired of totem twisting.
Not the actual totem twisting and struggling to figure out shock
rotation and whatnot. I'm getting tired of having to buff multiple
times every 10 seconds when other classes have 15-30m buff and can't
put them on correctly. It's just silly. 3.0 can't come fast enough.
The beta will be out soon, I doubt I'll take place in it but I'm
looking forward to people testing out these new shaman changes.
Specifically the pvp changes, enhancement is still really really
lacking in this respect.
On Jul 3, 3:49 pm, "Richard A. Millard" <r.a.mill...@gmail.com> wrote:
Not the actual totem twisting and struggling to figure out shock
rotation and whatnot. I'm getting tired of having to buff multiple
times every 10 seconds when other classes have 15-30m buff and can't
put them on correctly. It's just silly. 3.0 can't come fast enough.
The beta will be out soon, I doubt I'll take place in it but I'm
looking forward to people testing out these new shaman changes.
Specifically the pvp changes, enhancement is still really really
lacking in this respect.
On Jul 3, 3:49 pm, "Richard A. Millard" <r.a.mill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow... interesting stuff. Sounds like they're doing another round of "ease
> of living" improvements for shaman, which is definitely a good thing.
>
> of living" improvements for shaman, which is definitely a good thing.
>
Captain Zifna
Jul 14, 2008, 3:24:19 PM7/14/08
to Shaman Round Table
^_^ I've dropped out of a lot of the theorycraft side of WoW for a
while. It's a super busy summer what with my wedding (in less than a
month now!), trying to find a job, and finishing up last details
before I get off my parent's excellent insurance (owwww wisdom teeth
removal).
I think of visiting this place a lot more often than I get around to
visiting it... I do miss chatting! I'm only raiding about 2x a week
and not logging in much other than that, tho, so I *am* pretty
swamped. What's WWI stand for, Iapetes?
while. It's a super busy summer what with my wedding (in less than a
month now!), trying to find a job, and finishing up last details
before I get off my parent's excellent insurance (owwww wisdom teeth
removal).
I think of visiting this place a lot more often than I get around to
visiting it... I do miss chatting! I'm only raiding about 2x a week
and not logging in much other than that, tho, so I *am* pretty
swamped. What's WWI stand for, Iapetes?
Aaron
Jul 15, 2008, 1:58:21 AM7/15/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
Worldwide Invitational
Farmacy
Jul 15, 2008, 1:09:06 PM7/15/08
to Shaman Round Table
I thought it was Who Wanted Ice Cream?
And I do.
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Captain Zifna <CaptainZi...@gmail.com>
And I do.
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Captain Zifna <CaptainZi...@gmail.com>
MedicineMan
Jul 16, 2008, 4:36:11 PM7/16/08
to Shaman Round Table
hang up Mooncalf's glowy spauldiers, I'll probably hang up the whole
game with it. I was sure that WWI stood for World War One, as in
"Blizzard finally pushed shaman too far". That could just be my
residual shaman siege mentality talking though. :P
One note about the alpha talents etc. I've noticed that the air
elemental they're putting in isn't a totem. According to the
description, it is a pet that remains until dismissed. Could we be
becoming a pet class in the next xpac?
JC McCormick
Jul 16, 2008, 7:39:47 PM7/16/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
Shamans as a pet class would have made more sense a while ago. I'm not convinced it would be overpowered, but it'd come with nerfs anyway.
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