Enhancement Feedback I plan on leaving on beta forums-
0 views
Skip to first unread message
iapetes
Sep 9, 2008, 2:16:16 PM9/9/08
to Shaman Round Table
Looking for criticism, suggestions, etc. This is just an outline.
Survivability:
- Probably the biggest pvp concern remaining. Enhancement shamans
simply go down too easily.
- Lowest survivability of all melee
- A Survivability mechanic should not be tied to feral spirit, same
reason anti-kiting shouldn't be tied to SR
- Some 'active' mechanics that increase survivability, ala disarm,
armor increase activated by other ability etc.
- Or maybe allow maelstrom weapon to affect heals again? At least LHW?
- Or even make a new baseline spell for shamans an instant heal? Kinda
like holy shock's heal? Seems like resto lacks mobile healing as well.
- Or make Astral Shift extremely accesible to all 3 specs?
Maelstrom Weapon:
- Again, affect heals maybe?
- Should be undispellable. Enh Shamans have too few magic buffs/dispel
resistance to be dependant on dispellable buffs.
Unleashed Rage:
- Too many points for a completely replaceable buff. Needs to be
reduced in cost and/or offer secondary personal benefit.
Feral Spirit:
- Currently feels weak dps wise (though probably from lack of proper
scaling? Still half NYI? Just make it feel less sucky)
- Windwalk feels redundant, probably should offer snare/slow immunity
for the duration
- Survivability shouldn't be tied to Feral Spirit (twin howls), it
serves too many purposes like that.
- Stun feels weak for such a long cooldown. But another interrupt to
chain together is still useful. Maybe change to a howl that causes an
AoE silence?
Mana Issues:
- Enhancement spends a lot more mana in WotLK than tBC, due to
maelstrom weapon, downranking nerf, and SR nerf
- Needs to strike a balance between wanting some int and not running
oom.
- Meleers not running oom in pvp is important. We can't just back off
and drink.
- Perhaps Enhancement should have a talent that regens personal mana
based on the size of your total mana pool
Passive Slows and Frostbrand:
- Because using frostshock means not using earthshock/windshock,
Shamans avoid using it, giving them limited slowing capabilities.
- Because using frostbrand means not using windfury, nobody uses it
- Blizzard has made nice changes to frostbrand already, but still it
won't be used due to the large dps loss
- Should be changed to do only slightly less dps than windfury, so
that the loss of using FB on the off-hand does not feel larger than
the gain of it in pvp.
General Damage Scaling:
- I'm aware you're still working on this, and have a ways to go, so
will talk about how scaling should be done.
- Spirit Wolves should feel like a satisfying dps boost for their
duration. Around as good as avenging wrath? May be hard due to nature
of numbers being seperate from shaman's.
- Really hoping for a less 'mathy' WF weapon, even if it means some
negative changes elsewhere (as long as it all works out to shamans
doing dps on par with everyone else, of course).
- How about a 2 second cooldown on WF?
- Damage still feels too RNG based, even maelstrom is fairly RNG-
based.
- Maybe make stormstrike not proc windfury, but compensate with higher
damage? Decreases RNG and would make removing windfury's cooldown
completely more reasonable.
Stormstrike:
- Stormstrike should affect all spell damage, but be limited to the
enhancement shaman. If needed just compensate elemental and balance
with personal dps. Synergy isn't fun when it feels like it's being
stolen from you.
- Charges are dumb, eliminate please!
- imp SS is not really a fun talent, just a new mandatory one that
serves no purpose beyond making shaman spend talent points. Fold into
primary Stormstrike talent.
Survivability:
- Probably the biggest pvp concern remaining. Enhancement shamans
simply go down too easily.
- Lowest survivability of all melee
- A Survivability mechanic should not be tied to feral spirit, same
reason anti-kiting shouldn't be tied to SR
- Some 'active' mechanics that increase survivability, ala disarm,
armor increase activated by other ability etc.
- Or maybe allow maelstrom weapon to affect heals again? At least LHW?
- Or even make a new baseline spell for shamans an instant heal? Kinda
like holy shock's heal? Seems like resto lacks mobile healing as well.
- Or make Astral Shift extremely accesible to all 3 specs?
Maelstrom Weapon:
- Again, affect heals maybe?
- Should be undispellable. Enh Shamans have too few magic buffs/dispel
resistance to be dependant on dispellable buffs.
Unleashed Rage:
- Too many points for a completely replaceable buff. Needs to be
reduced in cost and/or offer secondary personal benefit.
Feral Spirit:
- Currently feels weak dps wise (though probably from lack of proper
scaling? Still half NYI? Just make it feel less sucky)
- Windwalk feels redundant, probably should offer snare/slow immunity
for the duration
- Survivability shouldn't be tied to Feral Spirit (twin howls), it
serves too many purposes like that.
- Stun feels weak for such a long cooldown. But another interrupt to
chain together is still useful. Maybe change to a howl that causes an
AoE silence?
Mana Issues:
- Enhancement spends a lot more mana in WotLK than tBC, due to
maelstrom weapon, downranking nerf, and SR nerf
- Needs to strike a balance between wanting some int and not running
oom.
- Meleers not running oom in pvp is important. We can't just back off
and drink.
- Perhaps Enhancement should have a talent that regens personal mana
based on the size of your total mana pool
Passive Slows and Frostbrand:
- Because using frostshock means not using earthshock/windshock,
Shamans avoid using it, giving them limited slowing capabilities.
- Because using frostbrand means not using windfury, nobody uses it
- Blizzard has made nice changes to frostbrand already, but still it
won't be used due to the large dps loss
- Should be changed to do only slightly less dps than windfury, so
that the loss of using FB on the off-hand does not feel larger than
the gain of it in pvp.
General Damage Scaling:
- I'm aware you're still working on this, and have a ways to go, so
will talk about how scaling should be done.
- Spirit Wolves should feel like a satisfying dps boost for their
duration. Around as good as avenging wrath? May be hard due to nature
of numbers being seperate from shaman's.
- Really hoping for a less 'mathy' WF weapon, even if it means some
negative changes elsewhere (as long as it all works out to shamans
doing dps on par with everyone else, of course).
- How about a 2 second cooldown on WF?
- Damage still feels too RNG based, even maelstrom is fairly RNG-
based.
- Maybe make stormstrike not proc windfury, but compensate with higher
damage? Decreases RNG and would make removing windfury's cooldown
completely more reasonable.
Stormstrike:
- Stormstrike should affect all spell damage, but be limited to the
enhancement shaman. If needed just compensate elemental and balance
with personal dps. Synergy isn't fun when it feels like it's being
stolen from you.
- Charges are dumb, eliminate please!
- imp SS is not really a fun talent, just a new mandatory one that
serves no purpose beyond making shaman spend talent points. Fold into
primary Stormstrike talent.
Aaron
Sep 9, 2008, 3:12:00 PM9/9/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
Sadly it all looks very true. Good compilation man.
A few suggestions: http://www.war-tools.com/t57732.html
And that's just a start. I thought up half that shit while stoned at around 3 in the morning. Looks way better than Blizzard's imo.
A few suggestions: http://www.war-tools.com/t57732.html
And that's just a start. I thought up half that shit while stoned at around 3 in the morning. Looks way better than Blizzard's imo.
Solwolf
Sep 11, 2008, 5:34:10 PM9/11/08
to Shaman Round Table
Stormstrike has been changed to self-only, and may include fire damage
soon.
Why anyone would take imp. stormstrike in its current form is
unknowable, given this change, shock's cooldown, and the 8 seconds of
SS charges. More changes must clearly be coming.
> > primary Stormstrike talent.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
soon.
Why anyone would take imp. stormstrike in its current form is
unknowable, given this change, shock's cooldown, and the 8 seconds of
SS charges. More changes must clearly be coming.
>
> - Show quoted text -
iapetes
Sep 12, 2008, 12:32:24 AM9/12/08
to Shaman Round Table
Captain Zifna
Sep 12, 2008, 8:05:01 AM9/12/08
to Shaman Round Table
woot woot, my ASCII diagrams saved Thunderstorm? Koraa's post was a
little unclear but I hope so...
On Sep 12, 12:32 am, iapetes <iape...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> indeed they are...http://blue.mmo-champion.com/8/9879678064-upcoming-shaman-changes.html
little unclear but I hope so...
On Sep 12, 12:32 am, iapetes <iape...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> indeed they are...http://blue.mmo-champion.com/8/9879678064-upcoming-shaman-changes.html
Korgalla
Sep 12, 2008, 9:59:24 AM9/12/08
to Shaman Round Table
Yay! I'm glad that is finally cleared up. Things are looking pretty
decent for elemental now, aside from SEaF nerf (that I think will get
at leas partially returned. Like maybe to 20% like all the other
classes.) Also, Chain Lightning seems to need a little buff... it
should be in our rotations too. I like it.
Oh hey Zifna! Can you maybe see if you can get them to change CL's
sound effect back to what it was in like... 2006 lol?
decent for elemental now, aside from SEaF nerf (that I think will get
at leas partially returned. Like maybe to 20% like all the other
classes.) Also, Chain Lightning seems to need a little buff... it
should be in our rotations too. I like it.
Oh hey Zifna! Can you maybe see if you can get them to change CL's
sound effect back to what it was in like... 2006 lol?
Solwolf
Sep 12, 2008, 6:24:01 PM9/12/08
to Shaman Round Table
It had to be the diagram. :)
I'm still concerned about scaling.
The way I figure it, Blizz has to buff shaman DPS more than it's
buffing other DPS specs/classes to make up for what they did to us in
TBC (and vanilla WoW for that matter). We're seeing the results of
this for moonkin already, and shadow priests will need that sort of
attention, too.
I mean, we can't pull mage/warlock/rogue/hunter numbers while we keep
the ability to heal, but we can be pretty close.
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
I'm still concerned about scaling.
The way I figure it, Blizz has to buff shaman DPS more than it's
buffing other DPS specs/classes to make up for what they did to us in
TBC (and vanilla WoW for that matter). We're seeing the results of
this for moonkin already, and shadow priests will need that sort of
attention, too.
I mean, we can't pull mage/warlock/rogue/hunter numbers while we keep
the ability to heal, but we can be pretty close.
iapetes
Sep 13, 2008, 1:21:56 AM9/13/08
to Shaman Round Table
Keep in mind that this last patch a lot of stuff was nerfed simply to
'balance talents against each other', and they haven't done their
actual dps balancing yet, beyond some of the bigger stuff, like ret
paladins one shotting people.
Also I was disappointed to see my feedback didn't get any responses :
(
'balance talents against each other', and they haven't done their
actual dps balancing yet, beyond some of the bigger stuff, like ret
paladins one shotting people.
Also I was disappointed to see my feedback didn't get any responses :
(
JC McCormick
Sep 13, 2008, 11:35:51 AM9/13/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, I think it's more or less going to shape up where you see rogues/hunters/mages/warlocks sitting on top (if they're good at their class and well-geared, naturally) with parity between the other DPS specs, again given equality in gear and skill. Which is fine by me.
Solwolf
Sep 17, 2008, 9:43:17 AM9/17/08
to Shaman Round Table
Is it just me, or does it feel like Shaman are getting short shrift on
blue/developer feedback in our beta forum, again?
I keep reading monstrous, informative posts on the druid, dk, and
warrior fora, then next-to-nothing on the shaman forum. This feels
eerily familiar.
blue/developer feedback in our beta forum, again?
I keep reading monstrous, informative posts on the druid, dk, and
warrior fora, then next-to-nothing on the shaman forum. This feels
eerily familiar.
JC McCormick
Sep 17, 2008, 5:46:57 PM9/17/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
To my knowledge, enhance was bugged out like Retribution was a build or two ago, and elemental is doing pretty good DPS. What feedback needs to go through?
Solwolf
Sep 18, 2008, 10:24:08 AM9/18/08
to Shaman Round Table
Interesting changes this patch. Most notably the change to Thundering
Strikes, making it affect melee and spell crit. I see elemental/
enhancement being the raid spec now: +intelligence, +mana on
watershield -45% mana cost for shocks, and +5% crit. MUCH better
synergy with our main tree than the old 20 pts to get 5% crit in
resto.
Seems more melee shaman will spec into elem, too. I wonder what resto
will do.
Strikes, making it affect melee and spell crit. I see elemental/
enhancement being the raid spec now: +intelligence, +mana on
watershield -45% mana cost for shocks, and +5% crit. MUCH better
synergy with our main tree than the old 20 pts to get 5% crit in
resto.
Seems more melee shaman will spec into elem, too. I wonder what resto
will do.
Korgalla
Sep 18, 2008, 1:34:13 PM9/18/08
to Shaman Round Table
Yeah, I'm liking a 60/11/0 build. Maybe 57/14/0 depending on how often
watershield actually gets procced. Only thing I'll really miss from
resto is healing pushback resist. But thats not even useful most of
the time in PvE unless soloing anyway.
Now all we need is a decent aoe. Why they never gave us Earthquake
I'll never know.
watershield actually gets procced. Only thing I'll really miss from
resto is healing pushback resist. But thats not even useful most of
the time in PvE unless soloing anyway.
Now all we need is a decent aoe. Why they never gave us Earthquake
I'll never know.
JC McCormick
Sep 18, 2008, 7:10:36 PM9/18/08
to wowsham...@googlegroups.com
The way they xpac-in high demand abilities makes me think Earthquake could still be on the table.
Korgalla
Sep 19, 2008, 2:31:36 AM9/19/08
to Shaman Round Table
Yeah. I really want it. Have wanted it since 2002 or so when i heard
there would be a shaman class in WoW, lol.
Would love to see it do a Thunderclap like effect while enemies are in
the aoe. Slowing movement and attack speed. That's what it did in
WCIII. Also with a small (10% per tick?) chance to knock a target
down. The knockdown could be a talent if it seems to OP on a baseline
ability - add it to storm earth and fire maybe. Same DPS as blizzard
or something.
It would also be cool if it did increased damage to structures in lake
Wintergrasp (like in WCIII, heh.)
On Sep 18, 6:10 pm, "JC McCormick" <esmev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The way they xpac-in high demand abilities makes me think Earthquake could
> still be on the table.
>
there would be a shaman class in WoW, lol.
Would love to see it do a Thunderclap like effect while enemies are in
the aoe. Slowing movement and attack speed. That's what it did in
WCIII. Also with a small (10% per tick?) chance to knock a target
down. The knockdown could be a talent if it seems to OP on a baseline
ability - add it to storm earth and fire maybe. Same DPS as blizzard
or something.
It would also be cool if it did increased damage to structures in lake
Wintergrasp (like in WCIII, heh.)
On Sep 18, 6:10 pm, "JC McCormick" <esmev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The way they xpac-in high demand abilities makes me think Earthquake could
> still be on the table.
>
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages