Worship music innovation

[Greg Jones]

I posted this on a worship forum and thought it would be a good topic of discussion here:

Regarding trends, musically speaking, I don't see much wiggle room for innovation with 'white worship music' unless it goes more 'black' (Israel Houghton, Tye Tribbett & GA). I say this because the latter allows for the greater incorporation of syncopated rhythm and jazzier chord voicings. The two artists that I named are incorporating rock elements from 'white' music to blend a more multi-ethnic mix that is relatively new and more innovative.

But it seems that if you're not leaning Urban Gospel (I hate to speak simply in terms of 'white' & 'black' and risk polarization), we're left with the confines that come with the expectations of congregations and Pastors that for the music to be singable, it has to be simple. But if I hear another I V vi IV song or it's variation I IV vi V song, I'm going to go crazy. For those who don't know what I'm talking about when I start speaking the number system, you probably don't see the simplicity and predictability of modern worship music as easy as those of us who are number system aware.

The bottom line is that I'd like to see modern worship music be more innovative, perhaps by combining styles and displaying more virtuosity. Lincoln Brewster is doing the latter. I'd like to see some more of this with better songwriting than Brewster's, and branch the virtuosity out with vocals and other displays of great musicianship on other instruments.

Examples of combining different styles might be mixing rock with reggae, jazz (Urban Gospel is already doing this), rap, classical, metal or even country. However, it seems that congregational worship music is limited in going these routes because of the great risk of endangering singability.

Another great risk is that people get distracted by musical virtuosity and creative innovation. I have a different perspective than what is commonly believed on this front. I believe that Psalm 33:3 doesn't have a disclaimer warning us against playing skilfully if it is misunderstood as being a performance. True worship IS a performance. The question is WHO is the audience?

I believe we should craft worship music that challenges the congregation with this question even at the risk of being misunderstood. This is the way of Christ. He constantly expressed things with enough ambiguity to risk being misunderstood. He 'painted with the colors of ambiguity', much like an artist paints with oils, risking being misunderstood so that he could reach people who were hungry to go deeper. Those who did go deeper, always got beyond the surface to the real meat. Exhibit A is when Christ told his followers that unless they 'ate of his flesh and drank of his blood' they could not become his disciples.

I see this principle as being one that frees worship leaders to risk being misunderstood by anyone in a congregation that refuses to go deeper and only see innovation, virtuosity and creativity as being entertainment or self-serving 'ear-tickling' performances. Only when one goes deeper (assuming the worship leader, vocalists and musicians have a humble heart), will they see the audience of one that is the only object of what can truly be called 'performance' with no other disclaimers.

Just my opinion, but I'd like to hear other thoughts....

Greg

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[Frank Scales]

Good points Greg. But I don't expect the current framework to change much, at least for a while. It's generational, it's cultural and, honestly it works! In past seasons I was able to utilize 'more' skill, or better said I got to play more notes. Today it is very simple. I am learning that being a part of a team with mostly young guys - I'm now the minority. That's ok. We make great music albeit without many keyboard solos as generations past! Lol

[trit...@cox.net]

Just a few random thoughts generated by reading your post:

If the goal is to unite a group of people in thought, feeling, and motion, then you kind of have to reach a common denominator, musically speaking. Sometimes you have to get pretty simple, again musically speaking, to reach that place.

There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more to musical excellence than what chords we use or what rhythms we add to them. I love to vamp on two chords and improvise melodies - singing or playing - over them. I love to hear a room full of people doing the same. Musical excellence allows for great creativity in improvising while fitting in with what the rest are doing.

There is also no disclaimer in "Make a joyful noise" to the effect that it has to meet the technical aspirations of the worship leader.

There is room for just about everything, so I have no particular issue with any style or combination thereof. On a personal level, some of those songs have meaning for me.

But I have to make a slight challenge to your idea of crafting worship music that challenges the congregation. It isn't the job of a worship leader to elevate the musical taste of the congregation. It's the job of the worship leader to do everything possible - musically and otherwise - to allow and assist the congregation and every member thereof to exalt God in every way possible. If that involves broadening their musical horizons, then do it. But we can't try to expand their musical vocabulary just because WE like using the musical equivalent of big words.

On a personal note, one of the simplest (chord-progression-wise) songs I've ever written is one of my favorites to play and sing. The verse is simply i - V7, and the chorus adds VII (Am E7 x4 = verse, Am G Am E7 x2 = chorus). If I take my time, I hear voices singing when I play, and instruments playing when I sing. I think it's because the song is so simple, that it leaves room for the heavenlies to be heard. Just one man's opinion.

Mike

---- Greg Jones <gr...@gregjonesmusic.com> wrote:
>
> The bottom line is that I'd like to see modern worship music be more
> innovative, perhaps by combining styles and displaying more virtuosity.
> Lincoln Brewster is doing the latter. I'd like to see some more of this
> with better songwriting than Brewster's, and branch the virtuosity out
> with vocals and other displays of great musicianship on other instruments.
>
>

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[Keith Mahay]

Worship is a product of Christ and culture.  Trying to create a uniform worship form is as ridiculous as trying to make 80 year old people 20 again.  The paradigm needs to be broken and everyone needs to understand that different ages worship differently with deference to the fact that every age needs a taste of their age in the composite of what we call worship.  If you can't stand "The Thirst Is Taking Over" in worship, get over it.  If you can't stand "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God" in worship get over It.  It is indeed corporate worship and all kinds have their place.  Each generation has an expression to Christ and all are accepted by Him.

--
Proverbs 14:4
Where there are no oxen, the manger is clean, but abundant crops come by the strength of the ox

[Greg Jones]

On 8/1/2012 12:29 PM, trit...@cox.net wrote:
> There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more to musical excellence than what chords we use or what rhythms we add to them. I love to vamp on two chords and improvise melodies - singing or playing - over them. I love to hear a room full of people doing the same. Musical excellence allows for great creativity in improvising while fitting in with what the rest are doing.

I'm not stating that musical excellence is only defined by chord choices
and rhythms. I just cited them because those attributes are easier to
quantify than the creativity and innovation that might come in say a
David Crowder tune.

>
> There is also no disclaimer in "Make a joyful noise" to the effect that it has to meet the technical aspirations of the worship leader.

I'm also not advocating MY technical aspirations... I'm only expressing
the desire to give my best to God and MY best might be something beyond
three chords.

>
> But I have to make a slight challenge to your idea of crafting worship music that challenges the congregation. It isn't the job of a worship leader to elevate the musical taste of the congregation.

I wasn't advocating that a worship leader should elevate or change the
tastes of the congregation. If you reread my post, my examples regarding
making the music ask a question, were theological, not musical in nature.

> On a personal note, one of the simplest (chord-progression-wise) songs I've ever written is one of my favorites to play and sing. The verse is simply i - V7, and the chorus adds VII (Am E7 x4 = verse, Am G Am E7 x2 = chorus). If I take my time, I hear voices singing when I play, and instruments playing when I sing. I think it's because the song is so simple, that it leaves room for the heavenlies to be heard. Just one man's opinion.

I like simple songs. Some of my favorites are simple. I just think that
sometimes we dumb worship music down. I guess I feel like it is my
calling (not everyone's) as a worship leader to present an excellence
that challenges people to go beyond mistaking it for a performance and
instead see a deeper meaning of musicians giving their best gifts as an
act of worship to God.

Greg

[Jamie Allen Larson]

Greg, I would like to remind myself that our job is to lead worship. Sometimes we get bored and forget that even though we are not thinking it is the most complicated stuff and we are playing below our abilities, we need to lead where our people can go. I liken it to being a tour guide. If the group is a group of 60 something's we wouldn't try to lead them on a walking tour of the grand canyon. We would bring them along so they can get the best view of the canyon without having to kill anyone... Grin. I would apply it to a service. If no one can follow, you are performing.

I use a simple rule. If I can sing the song while I am mowing or showering, it is doable during a service. I choose the anthemic tunes for worship as they have a strong hook and people will take them home and carry the worship throughout the week.



Jamie Allen Larson
Larson Insurance
www.larsoninsurance.com

Sent from my iPad2

[Dave Paisley]

The Beatles made their name with She Loves You and I Wanna Hold Your Hand. It was only after a lot of drugs and an inflated sense of their own importance that they got into fancy chords...

Sent from my iPhone

[Greg Jones]

in my opinion those songs are the modern day equivalent of "oops I did it again" by britney spears, although I give them kudos for cleaner lyrics there.

I hope you are not advocating that worship music have the same quality as those songs. in my opinion if the scriptures are challenging us to give our best, songs like black bird, yesterday, and hey jude would better fit that bill.

Respectfully

Greg
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

[Greg Jones]

jamie, I think we can do both. I think we can lead songs are singable yet step it up a notch with innovation and creativity. that standard of excellence speech to people and leave them, dare I say confronts them with the notion of giving God nothing less than our best, as opposed to hacking it with leftovers.

isn't that the story of cain n abel?

--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Jamie Allen Larson <jamieall...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Greg Jones]

I guess the bottom line on this subject is values.

And this goes for both sides of the argument. I value those of you who
take the simpler approach. I think there are plenty of churches that
need that and nothing more. And they need worship leaders who take such
an approach. In fact, the church that just hired me falls into that
category and will likely not move beyond it...

But I also challenge those of you who advocate always staying in that
simplicity to open your eyes to other possibilities. Here is an example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVRq9wKwSzE&feature=related

The song is singable, yet the instruments are stuck in the same
predictable K-love stuff.

Theologically speaking, I believe that sincerity and authenticity is the
most important message worship leaders can speak to their congregations.
This can come with the simplest music and there are a lot of simple
songs that are wonderful. I'm introducing "Surrender" to our
congregation this weekend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmAompQWRrQ

Although, listen to that guitar overdub! If you have a guitarist that
can play like that, in my opinion, it doesn't distract from the
singability, but rather enhances the emotion of the song.

But that sincerity/authenticity doesn't have to be limited by
simplicity. And if the music speaks to a greater level of excellence,
that excellence speaks about the quality of the offering we are to give
with our very lives, not merely with music.

But I've been wrong before....

Greg

[Greg Jones]

And lest I seem biased towards black gospel, Crowder's Open Skies has an 'out of the box' signature acoustic riff that takes it up a notch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwM8vgulzdI

And this song is relatively simple chord wise. And except for syncopation on the kick drum (and the signature riff), it is simple rhythmically as well.

In fact, Crowder does a great job of combining simplicity (singability) with creativity/innovation. Another example by him is "Our Love Is Loud":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBk6pRBmjeE

The chords are simple, the song is singable, but listen to the extra instrumentation in the arrangement (record scratching on verse and the samples). It can be little stuff like that that simply takes worship music out of the realms of 'uncreative predictability' yet preserves singability, that I'm also advocating.

Greg

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[Greg Jones]

BTW, a simple song that I just recently discovered and LOVE:

Holy: by Matt Redman:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lkex4DQqGQs

Not everything has to be innovative and especially creative.

Greg

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[Bob Marshall]

I watched the Martha Munizzi video. Wow, I can already see the scowls on the
old-timers in my church. And the bored looks on the high-schoolers, who
would not even be trying to sing along. That style may work in many
locations, especially in the south, but where I live (Northern California)
it's just not a popular style. We're more of a Matt Redman/Gateway
Worship/Phil Wickham/Christy Nockels sort of church.

Bob Marshall
Cool, CA

[Frank Scales]

I stand by my original comment.  This is a generational thing. I personally am happy about it.  All valid and worthy points here, but at the end of the day, we must embrace what is obviously not just a trend - but the norm - and be at peace with that,  or we should lead or encourage change by example.
From the radio side of things, since that has been my career path, 1 more comment.  I've seen songs come and go, and on occasion one comes along that just stands out musically - it rises above the norm. It's been my experience that in most cases, those songs don't last long. Maybe in the end people don't connect with them, they're not memorable or singable enough.  I'm not sure.  But it's a consistency that bothered me for years until I began to ask those questions and embrace the possible reasons.  Maybe the same holds true for worship music.

I can totally relate with Greg's point. Been there. I had to shift my thinking AND my playing.   Now after volunteering on a large worship team for about 3 years, made up of primarily 20 somethings, I have embraced the style of music that works in our setting, and more than all that, I get to be a part of a bigger movement of witnessing countless people come to faith in Jesus.   More than ever, to me,  I  VI  IV  V  is worth it.    :)

[Greg Jones]

I agree. I'm not advocating that style... I'm only presenting it as an example of combining creativity, complexity worth singability.

See the crowder link i suggested as well

--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Bob Marshall <ra...@comcast.net> wrote:

[Charity Dell]

DEAR GOOD CHRISTIAN FOLK--

 

Just a few thoughts on the topic....from a Black Pentecostal who grew up in the Black church from the late 1950's to the present.

 

1. "Going Black"--it's funny how this "trend" has emerged in the church world, especially now that black gospel music from all periods and all genres is available to the Body of Christ at large. Now that all these new music formats and file sharing have become prominent--in addition to recorded CD's and YouTube videos--churches are now singing and performing congregational and choral music from the black gospel idiom.

 

2. There are many ways to "go black", or incorporate authentic black gospel music into the worship life of your congregation.

The most important thing to remember is that the music should not be performed with those saccharine, "cutesy" arrangements left over from Hollywood TV variety shows, You don't have to use extreme tempos and frankl;y, much of the modern "urban sound" is not used in most black churches for worship, even if the youth choir may be using it.

 

3. Genres of Black Gospel music--

 

A. Congregational choruses--you can hear these on compilation albums of old black gospel favorites.There are many "old -school" choruses that you can learn on YouTube, and many uploaders now upload the lyrics.

B. Small ensemble songs--these songs were sung by quartets, quintests, sextets and various small grouops of singers.

You can listen to these on YouTube, as well as on traditional gospel music channels and websites.

C. Choral anthems--many of these were simply expanded arrangements of congregational devotional favorites. But you can also obtain sheet music for black gospel choral pieces on websites and at Christian music stores.

D. Music derived from Black Spirituals--these older songs from the slave period of African-american history are easy to sing,

and contain profound texts expressed in simple ways. You can find good collections of these songs in modern hymnals devoted to black sacred Christian music.

 

4. A word about modern black gospel--many of these pieces don't have the old flavor and bounce of the stuff from the 1960's and 1970's, and frankly, when the "R & B Lounge Music" sound of singers like Beyonce and Brandy came in, this music did not translate well to worship settings. Many urban gospel songs are either extremely slow--over 80% of them!--or extremely fast, at "merengue speed."

 

Next installment--resources for black sacred music!

 

Charity Dell

"Jubilate Deo omnis terra!" (Psalm 100:1)

 

5. If you introduce African-american music to your congregation, remember to explain a little about the origin of the music--its

roots in worship--and don't be afraid to experiment with differerent instrumental settings. By listening and imitating what you see and hear on YouTube or other DVD's, you can pick up chordal structures and sounds distinctive to black gospel music.

--

[Greg Jones]

The bottom line for me on this subject is that I think we all can agree
that in worship, we should give our best (story of Cain & Abel). If
giving our best is Bethel and Hillsong, then God bless your worship
ministry.

But for those of you who have greater gifts, there is room for greater
creativity and innovation without losing singability in worship music.
For those who disagree with me there, I simply tried to send some
Youtube examples WITHOUT advocating any specific style, whether it is
black Gospel, or something else. Black Gospel came to mind only because
it seems most obvious and does it so 'loudly'.

In my mind, there is an ideal that I hold to where a congregation is
challenged by a church that exhibits innovation and creativity. Such
innovation and creativity begs questions to the worshiper as to why such
a church has such a high standard and WHO is their audience. This points
not only to God but also gives a deeper revelation as to His nature.

Greg

[trit...@cox.net]

Good summary, Greg.

---- Greg Jones <gr...@gregjonesmusic.com> wrote: