Marriage in different cultures

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Dixie Morrison

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Sep 19, 2009, 12:32:23 PM9/19/09
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It looks like I'm the first one to make a post this weekend, so here
it is.

When talking about Nanavi and the difficulties of getting a girl's
education in Benin, the video spent a lot of time on how many girls
drop out because the lure and pressure to get married is greater than
that of going to school. But (playing Devil's Advocate) is this a
practice that should be condemned? We already discussed how polygamy
and young marriages are common in agricultural/subsistence cultures
like those found in Western Africa, because the main purpose of
marriage is to raise a large family that can work in the farm. This
obviously isn't the case in the U.S., so most Americans' instinctive
response is to say that girls should stay in school and marry later
(and be her husband's only wife). But it was stressed in the video
that sending Nanavi to school hurt the family farm because of the loss
of her labor. So clearly the age-old problem of having too few people
to farm still applies in Benin. With this in mind, is it a good thing
for Nanavi to stay in school and not get married and have kids, even
though that is really more important and valued in her home (at least
until more sophisticated farm equipment arrives in Benin)?

p.s. Of course I support girls like Nanavi getting a full education
and postponing marriage (as well as monogamy). I just wanted to shoot
this out there to see what other people thought.

Maya Allen

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Sep 19, 2009, 1:38:52 PM9/19/09
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I'm not sure if your question was whether or not this practice should
be condemned or not...If it is, I'd have to agree with you, Dixie,
because what the man who was talking to all the mothers of Benin about
their daughters' education emphasized that it would be beneficial in
the long run since they would make the country more advanced and
stable. It's true that their labor would be lost back home, but their
mothers and fathers can probably take care of it long enough for their
children to get an education and learn to support their families in
other ways using that education. In the video, we saw that Nanavi's
father, before he died, had supported her education and wanted her to
complete all of the grades and provide of their family. It may not
necessarily be the case in every Benin family, but it seems like a
reasonable idea to consider for everyone there and in all countries
that don't have as much as the United States.
Message has been deleted

Maya Allen

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Sep 19, 2009, 1:45:17 PM9/19/09
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And making it more relevant to the question, I'd have to say it's wise
for girls not to marry until their education is completed. The video
stated that girls must live with their husbands after they get
married, making it impossible to continue their education. This
custom is not "bad" but it's certainly makes more sense for everyone
if all people get equal education to make their country more
"civilized" as the women in the video put it.

On Sep 19, 1:41 pm, Maya Allen <mayaalle...@gmail.com> wrote:
> And then also, that would leave the whole marriage stage out of there
> until she finished her education.  In the video, it was stated that a
> girl had to stop education and live with her husband after she was
> married...so I think this step should have to wait, too.
>
> On Sep 19, 12:32 pm, Dixie Morrison <dmorriso...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

Jon Mayer

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Sep 20, 2009, 10:52:17 AM9/20/09
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In responding to some of the comments Dixie made, this practice of
polygamy and congregating family members to work on the farm is more
applicable in a historical view. In this modern day and age, a strong
education allows one to go out and be successful on an international
level. This allows them to work to bring income into their country and
increase its economical standing. The general idea here is that if
Benin can increase the number of educated people and the general
knowledge of hygiene and health in the country, than a plethora of
workers will not be necessary. The reasoning behind polygamy and
needing family members to do work in Africa but not in Europe in
historical times is that Europe had suitable animals that could be
domesticated and used for labor, multiplying the amount of work one
man could do. Now we have machinery and equipment that is not
associated with one particular climate or region. If through education
of its girls Benin can help to increase its economic status in the
world, then a large family to work on the farm will not be necessary.

On another aspect of polygamy, as was seen in TFA it was partially due
to the high rate of infant mortality (see; ogbanje) in the region.
Promoting general understanding of health and well being will help
mothers to care for their infants and avoid exposing them to germs and
such that could cause illness and death.

This is not to argue that technology invalidates a culture's beliefs
and practices, it is simply a way of looking at the environmental
influences that caused the development of a culture in a certain
fashion and trying to identify what we have now that overcomes this
environmental challenge.

oschultz

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Sep 20, 2009, 11:34:12 AM9/20/09
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To respond to what Dixie said, while it may be true that polygamy may
have some extent of convenience when practiced in areas where it may
be more usefully to have a larger family; it doesn't seem like
education should be sacrificed. Though education may seem like a very
expensive ideal to uphold, it can actually be very easy and very
simple to teach people without these major costs. By teaching them how
to teach themselves, we would be giving them a very significant
advantage in life by allowing them to learn not just from their books
and from their lectures; but rather, from their society and their
surroundings to give them a good range of views on what exactly they
need to do for their society and what they should be embracing within
their society. By allowing them to just learn how to educate
themselves, they could potentially improve their status in their
society and eventually improve their own living conditions.

Mark Nimar

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Sep 20, 2009, 4:22:33 PM9/20/09
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Jon, your point clears up the issue for me, but I don't think Benin
should compromise their cultural values for the sake of money and
position. Since when did the western market become the measuring stick
for other people's success? I just find it ironic that Benin's
educational efforts are supposed to empower their community, but they
only exist in comparison to the west's stature. I agree with Jon, but
if Benin really wants to progress forward, they should look at what
they truly want instead of what the western system wants for their
country.

Mark Nimar

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Sep 20, 2009, 4:27:01 PM9/20/09
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I agree with Dixie. I do believe education is important to these
women, but I don't like that Nanavi would be looked down upon if she
wanted to marry. What if she valued love and romance over education
and empowerment? People should be always pushed to achieve success,
but they should also be honored for the choices in their heart.
Personally, I think Nanavi should have the choice every woman has an
America. She should get the opportunity for education, get a minimum
few years of schooling, and then have the choice to continue or to
marry. Isolating Nanavi from boys is not the answer. If her dedication
to school is that frail, then she should probably reexamine her
principles. Change should be caused by thirst of an issue, not by
social pressure or government mandate.

On Sep 19, 12:32 pm, Dixie Morrison <dmorriso...@yahoo.com> wrote:

jmcke...@colonial.net

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Sep 20, 2009, 8:56:33 PM9/20/09
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From the way I see it, it is a choice between stability and progress
(neither of which are objectively better than the other). Without
modern farming techniques a large amount of manual labor is required
to produce an adequate amount of resources. To sacrafice a child (as
odd as that sounds) to education could mean the difference between
food on the table for dinner, so I think it would be ignorant to label
those who discourage their children from attending school. In that
sense I favor those who choose stability, and question the
effectiveness of these education programs. They should instead be
trying to solve the root of the issue, which is the outdated
technology mentioned above, as education will be a natural result of
updating farming techniques.

Peter Cohen

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Sep 20, 2009, 9:50:58 PM9/20/09
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Mark, I disagree with your first comment. Ever since europe became
involved in colonialism the western markets have been entrenched
throughout the world. Like it or not, the European capitalistic
economy has been the gold standard. Its success in spreading and
advancing technology has made it the measuring stick in developing
countries. Emerging countries try to emulate it because they see the
advantages it provides in terms of quality of life. Selectively
adopting western ways however, does not mean you have to sacrifice
your culture. For example, the West itself contains so many different
cultures. Our economies are large and complex, yet our cultures and
traditions remain distinct and deep. When you really think about it,
countries like the US, Spain, and Germany have so many different
unique cultural quirks rooted in tradition that they haven't
sacrificed despite our western economies. "western ideals" like a good
education for all children will help Benin move forward. If they want
to become a better country and improve their quality of life they
should try to emulate western values like educating girls and
maintaining a strong democracy controlled by the people. The western
system has worked out alright for us, Benin should try to replicate
our model. I understand this may sound elitist, but in these modern
times what the western system wants often is best. I say this
understanding that the West has made egregious horrible errors in
Africa in the past that has devastated them.

richard...@comcast.net

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Sep 20, 2009, 10:06:32 PM9/20/09
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Mark i believe the reason they are starting to put an effort for
education is not so that Benin can be like the western culture but
have similar success. Having a bigger income because of your education
is not going to take all your culture away. And with this education,
parents of the children can have even more help at home with because
of the children's education. If anything, education is going to make
Benin stronger economicly AND culturely.

Sloane.Brazina

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Sep 21, 2009, 4:56:31 PM9/21/09
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I'm definitely not afraid to flaunt feminist view on this issue: if I
were expected to get married, settle down and pop out a few kids at my
current age, i would be outraged. While I don't see marriage as a bad
thing, I find it extremely offensive that in this culture (among
others), women are really only good for childbearing and being a token
of status for their husbands, much like a collector's item. I
strongly believe women can and should be fully independent, not having
to rely on a man to function day to day. While I understand the
benefits of polygamy, I find this practice to be outdated. I seems to
me that in this day and age, polygamy is more of a roadblock in a 3rd
world country such as Benin. It would make sense that in order to
increase Benin's worldly status, women should be provided with the
tools necessary to gain independence--starting with education
opportunity.

btay...@colonial.net

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Sep 21, 2009, 6:03:45 PM9/21/09
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Replying to Dixie's Question, It seems to me that in this culture,
although marriage is very important, school is not valued enough and
if Nanavi was to drop out of school, it would send the message to
other girls in her village that school is not important. Nanavi is
somewhat of an ambassador to the value of school to other girls in her
village and when other girls see her and see how intelligent she is
becoming, then they will try and get further education as well.
Nanavi's education is a stepping stone for further education for many
other children in the village and that is probably more important than
getting married at that early age. Besides, she can always get married
after her education is finished, and once she is further educated, she
may be able to get a job that will yield more income to support her
family than if she dropped out and continued farming. If Nanavi does
not drop out, it seems it would be better for her and her family in
the long term.

Lucy Fandel

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Sep 21, 2009, 6:05:18 PM9/21/09
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While I love our education system and enjoy most aspects of our
culture and society, I think you have to remember that it only really
seems so great to us because we are succeeding with it. It works for
us and enables us to have good lives, by our standards. In Benin
though, we have to be careful not to assume that using our systems
will make the country as wealthy or successful as many in the West.
Because of many barriers, such as early marriage brought up by Dixie,
getting a regular education can be very very difficult. I don't really
see a good way to introduce a good educational system while
maintaining the culture in that area. People need to work together to
survive and early marriage is the best option if you want a reliable
and mainly stable lifestyle. Also, in the beginning of the video we
saw that it was the religious leader of the village that gave
permission for Nanavi to go to school. Would they have to topple that
leaders position and power in order to guarantee an education for
these kids?

Kyle Calabria

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Sep 21, 2009, 6:51:50 PM9/21/09
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I agree with Lucy in that our educational system may not be the most
effective for those in Benin. The majority of Concord residents use
their education to make a living. In Benin the best way to make a
living is through farming. I would guess that many less opportunities
for making a living from behind a desk or using mind over body exist.
Considering this I still believe education is very valuable, perhaps
an alternative education could be provided for children in Benin as
long with maybe fewer people who become educated? Just an idea, but
maybe our Western ways are not right for the people of Benin.

janzer

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Sep 21, 2009, 7:09:34 PM9/21/09
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This problem in itself is a reflection of a weakness at some level in
Benin's government. The fact that these people find it necessary to
grow as large of families as possible in order to survive is a problem
in and of itself. At some point in time, likely the very beginning,
the farming system became too competitive on a family-against-family
level. The way this economic system works, there are two variables;
the farming capacity of each family, and the nature of the market.
This is a supply and demand based economy. When a family is not able
to compete against the others, it struggles. This overemphasizes
family size, which explains the practice of polygamy. So, in this
case, the practice of polygamy is based on necessity. Therefore,
considering the economic system, polygamy makes sense. This being
said, if there was more of a fallback option for more families, towns
such as Nanavi's would be more stable. I obviously do not understand
economics well enough to determine how this issue could be solved, but
I do place some of the responsibility on the government. To bring a
different spin on the discussion, this is why charity from more
developed countries is so crucial. If more of these families had
enough money to survive without so much pressure to succeed on the
farm, education would be more widespread. This is a difficult cause
and effect, which I do not completely understand.

Lucas Morrill

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Sep 21, 2009, 7:17:35 PM9/21/09
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I believe that it is ethnocentric to say that women should postpone
marriage to get an education. In our society, marriage at the age of
15 is an outrage, even illegal (i assume). That being said the culture
is completely different in Benin. There it is normal for men to seek
young women like Nanavi. To impose our cultural norms on a society so
far away and so different is wrong. In fact, if they learned about our
culture and learned that our women don't marry until at least their
20's, they would probably think that our women were being mistreated
because they were losing years to have children. Judging life depends
on the lens through which you look. In this case, though we would like
to say that women should get an education and postpone marriage, one
must consider the society that these women are in and realize that to
their society, an early marriage is normal.

Sophia Hantzis

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Sep 21, 2009, 8:33:45 PM9/21/09
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I think that if you have the chance to go to school and get a good
education then you should at least try. Girls in Benin should try to
get a education and postpone marriage until there out of school. If
the girls continue to work hard in school then there is a better
chance for them to get a job and be able to support their families
better. Like others have said before, if their educated it will make
their country more "civilized".

Dominic Ryder

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Sep 21, 2009, 9:19:14 PM9/21/09
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I agree that if many more girls in Benin get educated, this will
change their culture. Marriage will certainly change,as girls would
have to postpone it in order to complete their education. At the same
time, this would remove many of the reasons for girls to marry so
young. this would provoke a huge change in their culture, nut would
most likely also provide a large boost to their standard of living.
And if at least some o the people in Benin are willing to make that
trade, I would say that insisting on them keeping to their culture
would be just ethnocentric as forcing them to accept and conform to
ours.

Mark B

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Sep 22, 2009, 12:03:32 PM9/22/09
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i completely agree with dominic however we i would like to add that it
is not only up to the girls. the girl from benin had to get the
support from her priest in order to get an education. he even stated
that he would only let 30 girls go and no more than that. so although
it would be good to get an education rather than "rush" into an early
marriage the religion also plays a huge role in that choice.

Phil Lavely

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Sep 22, 2009, 8:01:07 PM9/22/09
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It is hard to say what is correct for a Benin girl to do, as we are
not an integrated part of that society, and we are not fully aware of
what it all entails. However, I think one could get an eduction as
well as keep traditions. It may mean that they don't get married as
early, but it is possible to do so. I think it would be most
beneficial to their culture and economy to allow for girls to get an
education, and for that to become an important part of their values
and beliefs. I think it is unfair to the woman of Benin that they are
merely items for making babies and helping a man make his status. I'm
sure it's not as simple as that, but I do think that the woman deserve
more power and influence on their own lives and choices. I can't alter
a culture, nor do I want to, but I do hope that an education is
possible for one should they want one.
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