Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
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Nik ST.BUL-Azmi
Sep 22, 2013, 8:24:34 PM9/22/13
to MCOBA E-Group, MCOBA Bargreaves Ballerz, mcoba malaysia, MCOBA NORTHERN CHAPTER, MCOBA Kelantan, MCOB...@yahoogroups.com, Woodstock69
Will be Posting this under a new thread, "Hutang Mengikut Perspektif Islam", InsyaALLAH:
http://www.sinarharian.com.my/mobile/hiburan/hutang-mengikut-perspektif-islam-1.204482
Hutang mengikut perspektif Islam
Oleh: Wartawan Sinar Harian
Tarikh: September 23, 2013
Berikut sambungan ucaptama Yang Dipertua Persatuan Ulama Malaysia, Datuk Al Sheikh Abdul Halim Abd Kadir dalam seminar Maqasid Syariah, Isu-isu Kepenggunaan: Realiti dan Cabaran yang berlangsung di Auditorium Kompleks Kumpulan Media Karangkraf, kelmarin.
ii) Hutang dari perspektif Islam
Perspektif Islam berkenaan hutang dapat difahami dengan jelas jika kita merujuk hadis-hadis Rasulullah SAW. Antaranya hadis Rasulullah SAW bermaksud:
“Diampunkan semua dosa bagi orang mati yang terkorban syahid, kecuali jika dia mempunyai hutang (kepada manusia)” (Riwayat Muslim, 6/28)
Di dalam satu lagi hadis Rasulullah SAW bersabda:
“Barang siapa yang meminjam harta orang lain dengan niat ingin mengembalikannya, ALLAH akan mengembalikan pinjaman itu, namun barang siapa yang meminjamkannya dengan niat ingin merugikannya, ALLAH akan merugikannya” (Riwayat al-Bukhari, 2/83)
Islam juga melihat hutang sebagai sesuatu yang membahayakan individu dan umat Islam. Ini dapat dilihat dari doa yang diajar oleh Rasulullah SAW yang berbunyi:
“Ya ALLAH, aku berlindung kepada-Mu dari dosa dan hutang, lalu Baginda ditanya: Mengapa tuan sering meminta perlindungan dari hutang, wahai Rasulullah? Baginda menjawab: “Jika seseorang berhutang, bila berbicara ia dusta, bila berjanji ia mengingkari” (Riwayat al-Bukhari, 1/214)
Di dalam hadis lain pula Rasulullah SAW bersabda:
Ertinya: Ya ALLAH, aku berlindung dari kekufuran dan hutang. Mendengar itu seseorang bertanya, “Apakah tuan menyamakan kekufuran dengan hutang wahai Rasulullah?, “Benar,” jawab Rasulullah. (Riwayat an-Nasaie, 2/316, Ahmad, 3/38, al-Hakim berkata, sahih dan disepakati oleh az-Zahabi, menurut Albani: Dhaif)
Berhutang dari perspektif Islam adalah perkara yang tidak baik dan perlu dijauhi, kecuali dalam keadaan kesempitan yang amat sangat. Namun, sekarang kita dapati industri perbankan, termasuk sektor perbankan Islam, amat menggalakkan budaya berhutang. Akibat aktiviti mereka yang ingin berkembang, tahap hutang masyarakat menjadi bertambah.
iii) Peningkatan hutang isi rumah di Malaysia
Data menunjukkan tahap dan tren hutang isi rumah di Malaysia sedang meningkat dari setahun ke setahun. Menurut laporan Bank Negara, hutang isi rumah di negara kita telah meningkat selama 10 tahun berturut-turut pada kadar tahunan sebanyak 12.5 peratus pada Disember 2011. Nisbah hutang isi rumah berbanding Keluaran Dalam Negara Kasar negara adalah 76.6 peratus.
Malah, hampir 50 peratus daripada pendapatan isi rumah digunakan untuk membiayai bebanan hutang. Berbanding negara lain, Malaysia mempunyai nisbah hutang isi rumah berbanding pendapatan bersih yang tertinggi.
Maka, tidak hairanlah jika fenomena permasalahan hutang akan meningkat dalam kalangan orang Islam walaupun mereka peka berkenaan isu halal dan haram. Meskipun sebenarnya hutang mereka adalah halal, namun ianya tetap hutang dan jika bertambah, bahayanya tidak jauh berbeza dengan keadaan hutang haram.
Jika masyarakat kita mempunyai sikap konsumerisme yang tinggi, ia akan lebih mudah bagi sektor perbankan Islam mencapai strategi perniagaan untuk menambah jumlah masyarakat yang berhutang. Ini sudah tentu bertentangan dengan matlamat dakwah dan tarbiah Islam.
iv) Fenomena kahwin lambat
Perkahwinan adalah antara aspek yang melibatkan kebendaan dan kepenggunaan. Soalnya, fenomena kahwin lambat ini berlaku kerana maqasid syariah yang sewajarnya tidak diutamakan.
Disebabkan terikut-ikut dengan budaya semasa dan sikap bermegah dalam mengatur majlis perkahwinan menyebabkan kos majlis menjadi terlalu mahal dan membebankan.
Ini termasuklah nilai hantaran yang melambung tinggi dan belanja perkahwinan yang melampaui kadar munasabah menyebabkan maqasid syariah untuk mencapai tujuan perkahwinan itu disyariatkan tidak tercapai. Sebagai jalan mudah untuk keluar dari masalah ini ialah dengan berhutang.
Antara faktor utama menyumbang kepada kahwin lambat ialah kestabilan. Selain itu, faktor kepentingan kerjaya yang berkait rapat dengan kebendaan turut mempengaruhi kahwin lewat. Sementara itu, 30 peratus daripada mereka yang belum berkahwin berpendapat kerjaya adalah segala-galanya.
Sedangkan dalam tuntutan perkahwinan, antara maqasid syariah yang dapat dikenal pasti ialah untuk mengelakkan gejala sosial selain membina zuriat Muslim bagi kelangsungan umat. Jika kahwin lambat jadi tren, pasti sukar memenuhi tujuan syarak tentang perkahwinan.
Cabaran mewujudkan halal living menuntut komitmen besar semua pihak dan perkara penting yang perlu diberi perhatian dalam usaha mewujudkan halal living:
l Menyempurnakan misi kehambaan dan kekhalifahan sepanjang aktiviti kepenggunaan.
l Menjadikan aktiviti kepenggunaan sehari-hari sebagai ibadah.
l Memanfaatkan sumber kepenggunaan sebaik mungkin.
l Menjalani gaya hidup sihat berdasarkan tingkat keperluan dan kemampuan.
l Mengutamakan matlamat kepenggunaan jangka panjang berbanding jangka pendek.
l Menggiatkan promosi halal living melalui proses bimbingan dan pendidikan.
l Menggubal undang-undang mesra pengguna.
l Menguatkuasakan akta dan undang-undang sedia ada.
Rumusan dan Kesimpulan
a. Di peringkat pengguna: Pengguna berhak diberi perlindungan berikut:-
l Melindungi pengguna daripada bahaya kesihatan dan keselamatan.
l Melindungi kepentingan ekonomi pengguna.
l Menyalurkan maklumat dan penerangan yang mencukupi agar pengguna dapat buat keputusan secara bertanggungjawab.
l Memperoleh ganti rugi yang murah, efektif dan cepat.
l Mendidik pengguna secara meluas dalam isu kepenggunaan.
l Memelihara alam sekeliling pengguna
l Memberi kebebasan dan kesejahteraan kepada pengguna.
b. Di peringkat agensi:
l Penguatkuasaan undang-undang sedia ada dan pemantauan ketat Bank Negara terhadap institusi kewangan dalam soal pemberian pinjaman.
l Agensi Kaunseling dan Pengurusan Kredit (AKPK) harus berperanan lebih agresif dalam meningkatkan khidmat nasihat kewangan dan bantuan penstrukturan semula hutang dalam usaha menggalakkan pengurusan kewangan berhemat dan meningkatkan tahap celik kewangan.
l AKPK juga perlu meneruskan usaha menganjurkan taklimat dan pameran di seluruh negara bagi pelbagai kumpulan sasar.
l AKPK perlu lebih dinamik dalam memberikan kaunseling kewangan kepada individu dan membantu penstrukturan bayaran balik hutang melalui Program Pengurusan Hutang.
c. Lain-lainnya:
l Usaha perlu digiatkan untuk mendidik rakyat, umat Islam, khususnya untuk memiliki ilmu perancangan kewangan peribadi.
l Peranan sistem perbankan dalam ekonomi perlu diteruskan dengan urus tadbir yang baik, amalan pengurusan risiko yang berkesan dan pembiayaan yang bertanggungjawab untuk memastikan sistem ekonomi negara keseluruhannya teguh dan mampan.
Sebagai kesimpulan, kami ingin menyebutkan langkah utama ke arah memperkasakan masyarakat Islam dalam bidang ekonomi tidak seharusnya dilihat semata-mata dengan memperkukuhkan sektor perbankan Islam. Sebaliknya, kita juga harus menekankan aspek untuk merubah nilai masyarakat Islam supaya tidak terlampau mengejar kebendaan tetapi mengejar kejayaan akhirat dengan menambahkan ketakwaan mereka.
-- http://www.sinarharian.com.my/mobile/hiburan/hutang-mengikut-perspektif-islam-1.204482
Hutang mengikut perspektif Islam
Oleh: Wartawan Sinar Harian
Tarikh: September 23, 2013
Berikut sambungan ucaptama Yang Dipertua Persatuan Ulama Malaysia, Datuk Al Sheikh Abdul Halim Abd Kadir dalam seminar Maqasid Syariah, Isu-isu Kepenggunaan: Realiti dan Cabaran yang berlangsung di Auditorium Kompleks Kumpulan Media Karangkraf, kelmarin.
ii) Hutang dari perspektif Islam
Perspektif Islam berkenaan hutang dapat difahami dengan jelas jika kita merujuk hadis-hadis Rasulullah SAW. Antaranya hadis Rasulullah SAW bermaksud:
“Diampunkan semua dosa bagi orang mati yang terkorban syahid, kecuali jika dia mempunyai hutang (kepada manusia)” (Riwayat Muslim, 6/28)
Di dalam satu lagi hadis Rasulullah SAW bersabda:
“Barang siapa yang meminjam harta orang lain dengan niat ingin mengembalikannya, ALLAH akan mengembalikan pinjaman itu, namun barang siapa yang meminjamkannya dengan niat ingin merugikannya, ALLAH akan merugikannya” (Riwayat al-Bukhari, 2/83)
Islam juga melihat hutang sebagai sesuatu yang membahayakan individu dan umat Islam. Ini dapat dilihat dari doa yang diajar oleh Rasulullah SAW yang berbunyi:
“Ya ALLAH, aku berlindung kepada-Mu dari dosa dan hutang, lalu Baginda ditanya: Mengapa tuan sering meminta perlindungan dari hutang, wahai Rasulullah? Baginda menjawab: “Jika seseorang berhutang, bila berbicara ia dusta, bila berjanji ia mengingkari” (Riwayat al-Bukhari, 1/214)
Di dalam hadis lain pula Rasulullah SAW bersabda:
Ertinya: Ya ALLAH, aku berlindung dari kekufuran dan hutang. Mendengar itu seseorang bertanya, “Apakah tuan menyamakan kekufuran dengan hutang wahai Rasulullah?, “Benar,” jawab Rasulullah. (Riwayat an-Nasaie, 2/316, Ahmad, 3/38, al-Hakim berkata, sahih dan disepakati oleh az-Zahabi, menurut Albani: Dhaif)
Berhutang dari perspektif Islam adalah perkara yang tidak baik dan perlu dijauhi, kecuali dalam keadaan kesempitan yang amat sangat. Namun, sekarang kita dapati industri perbankan, termasuk sektor perbankan Islam, amat menggalakkan budaya berhutang. Akibat aktiviti mereka yang ingin berkembang, tahap hutang masyarakat menjadi bertambah.
iii) Peningkatan hutang isi rumah di Malaysia
Data menunjukkan tahap dan tren hutang isi rumah di Malaysia sedang meningkat dari setahun ke setahun. Menurut laporan Bank Negara, hutang isi rumah di negara kita telah meningkat selama 10 tahun berturut-turut pada kadar tahunan sebanyak 12.5 peratus pada Disember 2011. Nisbah hutang isi rumah berbanding Keluaran Dalam Negara Kasar negara adalah 76.6 peratus.
Malah, hampir 50 peratus daripada pendapatan isi rumah digunakan untuk membiayai bebanan hutang. Berbanding negara lain, Malaysia mempunyai nisbah hutang isi rumah berbanding pendapatan bersih yang tertinggi.
Maka, tidak hairanlah jika fenomena permasalahan hutang akan meningkat dalam kalangan orang Islam walaupun mereka peka berkenaan isu halal dan haram. Meskipun sebenarnya hutang mereka adalah halal, namun ianya tetap hutang dan jika bertambah, bahayanya tidak jauh berbeza dengan keadaan hutang haram.
Jika masyarakat kita mempunyai sikap konsumerisme yang tinggi, ia akan lebih mudah bagi sektor perbankan Islam mencapai strategi perniagaan untuk menambah jumlah masyarakat yang berhutang. Ini sudah tentu bertentangan dengan matlamat dakwah dan tarbiah Islam.
iv) Fenomena kahwin lambat
Perkahwinan adalah antara aspek yang melibatkan kebendaan dan kepenggunaan. Soalnya, fenomena kahwin lambat ini berlaku kerana maqasid syariah yang sewajarnya tidak diutamakan.
Disebabkan terikut-ikut dengan budaya semasa dan sikap bermegah dalam mengatur majlis perkahwinan menyebabkan kos majlis menjadi terlalu mahal dan membebankan.
Ini termasuklah nilai hantaran yang melambung tinggi dan belanja perkahwinan yang melampaui kadar munasabah menyebabkan maqasid syariah untuk mencapai tujuan perkahwinan itu disyariatkan tidak tercapai. Sebagai jalan mudah untuk keluar dari masalah ini ialah dengan berhutang.
Antara faktor utama menyumbang kepada kahwin lambat ialah kestabilan. Selain itu, faktor kepentingan kerjaya yang berkait rapat dengan kebendaan turut mempengaruhi kahwin lewat. Sementara itu, 30 peratus daripada mereka yang belum berkahwin berpendapat kerjaya adalah segala-galanya.
Sedangkan dalam tuntutan perkahwinan, antara maqasid syariah yang dapat dikenal pasti ialah untuk mengelakkan gejala sosial selain membina zuriat Muslim bagi kelangsungan umat. Jika kahwin lambat jadi tren, pasti sukar memenuhi tujuan syarak tentang perkahwinan.
Cabaran mewujudkan halal living menuntut komitmen besar semua pihak dan perkara penting yang perlu diberi perhatian dalam usaha mewujudkan halal living:
l Menyempurnakan misi kehambaan dan kekhalifahan sepanjang aktiviti kepenggunaan.
l Menjadikan aktiviti kepenggunaan sehari-hari sebagai ibadah.
l Memanfaatkan sumber kepenggunaan sebaik mungkin.
l Menjalani gaya hidup sihat berdasarkan tingkat keperluan dan kemampuan.
l Mengutamakan matlamat kepenggunaan jangka panjang berbanding jangka pendek.
l Menggiatkan promosi halal living melalui proses bimbingan dan pendidikan.
l Menggubal undang-undang mesra pengguna.
l Menguatkuasakan akta dan undang-undang sedia ada.
Rumusan dan Kesimpulan
a. Di peringkat pengguna: Pengguna berhak diberi perlindungan berikut:-
l Melindungi pengguna daripada bahaya kesihatan dan keselamatan.
l Melindungi kepentingan ekonomi pengguna.
l Menyalurkan maklumat dan penerangan yang mencukupi agar pengguna dapat buat keputusan secara bertanggungjawab.
l Memperoleh ganti rugi yang murah, efektif dan cepat.
l Mendidik pengguna secara meluas dalam isu kepenggunaan.
l Memelihara alam sekeliling pengguna
l Memberi kebebasan dan kesejahteraan kepada pengguna.
b. Di peringkat agensi:
l Penguatkuasaan undang-undang sedia ada dan pemantauan ketat Bank Negara terhadap institusi kewangan dalam soal pemberian pinjaman.
l Agensi Kaunseling dan Pengurusan Kredit (AKPK) harus berperanan lebih agresif dalam meningkatkan khidmat nasihat kewangan dan bantuan penstrukturan semula hutang dalam usaha menggalakkan pengurusan kewangan berhemat dan meningkatkan tahap celik kewangan.
l AKPK juga perlu meneruskan usaha menganjurkan taklimat dan pameran di seluruh negara bagi pelbagai kumpulan sasar.
l AKPK perlu lebih dinamik dalam memberikan kaunseling kewangan kepada individu dan membantu penstrukturan bayaran balik hutang melalui Program Pengurusan Hutang.
c. Lain-lainnya:
l Usaha perlu digiatkan untuk mendidik rakyat, umat Islam, khususnya untuk memiliki ilmu perancangan kewangan peribadi.
l Peranan sistem perbankan dalam ekonomi perlu diteruskan dengan urus tadbir yang baik, amalan pengurusan risiko yang berkesan dan pembiayaan yang bertanggungjawab untuk memastikan sistem ekonomi negara keseluruhannya teguh dan mampan.
Sebagai kesimpulan, kami ingin menyebutkan langkah utama ke arah memperkasakan masyarakat Islam dalam bidang ekonomi tidak seharusnya dilihat semata-mata dengan memperkukuhkan sektor perbankan Islam. Sebaliknya, kita juga harus menekankan aspek untuk merubah nilai masyarakat Islam supaya tidak terlampau mengejar kebendaan tetapi mengejar kejayaan akhirat dengan menambahkan ketakwaan mereka.
ThxSalam&BestRegards,
Nik A. Azmi
Jazz Community Malaysia (JAZZCOMM)
WORLD YOUTH JAZZ FESTIVAL (WYJF)
SORAK!!!
"BEYOUTHIFUL"
By The Youth,
With The Youth,
For The Youth.
__________________
Sent from my BlackBerry®Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
Nik A. Azmi
Jazz Community Malaysia (JAZZCOMM)
WORLD YOUTH JAZZ FESTIVAL (WYJF)
SORAK!!!
"BEYOUTHIFUL"
By The Youth,
With The Youth,
For The Youth.
__________________
Sent from my BlackBerry®Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.
From: zahid aziz <za...@hotmail.com>
Sender: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 00:16:07 +0000
To: mcoba google<mcoba...@googlegroups.com>
ReplyTo: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
Bro Giman,
The question is not about the unIslamicness of the Islamic banking system. If that is the issue then train your guns at the govt who refuses to declare the conventional system haram. Much of the unIslamicness of the Islamic banking system has to do with operating side by side with the conventional system. I wrote a thesis on it here if you have the time to read "The negative impact of riba banking on the performance of Islamic Banking in a dual system" http://independent.academia.edu/ZahidAziz/
The issue is not to cross over or stick to conventional just because you hate Islamic banking. I know most of you are still using conventional facilities. The correct position to take now is to "berazam" to change to Islamic, and do it as soon as possible. But to stick to your guns and stay with conventional come what may is just not a tenable and advisable position.
Some of the accusations that Islamic is more expensive than conventional is not yet proven by any studies. When I was with BIMB I asked my staff to conduct a study whether a 10% fixed rate 20 year BBA housing facility is more expensive that floating rate conventional housing facility. We found out over the last 20 years average base lending rate based on BNM statistics is 9.25% p.a and average margin for conventional housing facilities 1.5% + BLR. That works out to Islamic being 0.75% + average BLR and Conventional being 1.5% + BLR. Which is cheaper?
The issue with Islamic house financing always arise when it comes to redemption where less cost seems to have been deducted compared to expectation. The question is, is it different under conventional? The answer is no. the same or worse method is used under conventional.
Again I know many of you are still on conventional. Change as soon as you can, the accusation that it is more expensive than Islamic does not hold water and even if it is so, the saving is so paltry to risk your hereafter.
Wassalam,
Zahid
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 23:44:07 +0800
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
From: azm...@gmail.com
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
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The question is not about the unIslamicness of the Islamic banking system. If that is the issue then train your guns at the govt who refuses to declare the conventional system haram. Much of the unIslamicness of the Islamic banking system has to do with operating side by side with the conventional system. I wrote a thesis on it here if you have the time to read "The negative impact of riba banking on the performance of Islamic Banking in a dual system" http://independent.academia.edu/ZahidAziz/
The issue is not to cross over or stick to conventional just because you hate Islamic banking. I know most of you are still using conventional facilities. The correct position to take now is to "berazam" to change to Islamic, and do it as soon as possible. But to stick to your guns and stay with conventional come what may is just not a tenable and advisable position.
Some of the accusations that Islamic is more expensive than conventional is not yet proven by any studies. When I was with BIMB I asked my staff to conduct a study whether a 10% fixed rate 20 year BBA housing facility is more expensive that floating rate conventional housing facility. We found out over the last 20 years average base lending rate based on BNM statistics is 9.25% p.a and average margin for conventional housing facilities 1.5% + BLR. That works out to Islamic being 0.75% + average BLR and Conventional being 1.5% + BLR. Which is cheaper?
The issue with Islamic house financing always arise when it comes to redemption where less cost seems to have been deducted compared to expectation. The question is, is it different under conventional? The answer is no. the same or worse method is used under conventional.
Again I know many of you are still on conventional. Change as soon as you can, the accusation that it is more expensive than Islamic does not hold water and even if it is so, the saving is so paltry to risk your hereafter.
Wassalam,
Zahid
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 23:44:07 +0800
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
From: azm...@gmail.com
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
Bro KS,
What you are saying makes a lot of sense.We all know that even the leading global banks are jumping on this
Islamic banking bandwagon, which is one of the fastest growing banking sector anywhere and everywhere.If it
reeks of injustice and unfairmess,surely doubts can be cast as to whether it is really Islamic banking,or has
anything to do with Islamic principles of doing business.Bandying around a few Arab-sounding terms..anyone
can do that just to win over the business from Muslims!
Like Bro SM, I also have my doubts as to whether we can divert our sins behind a perceived auhtority, who will
then take the fall on our behalf.C`mon, Allah gave us intelligence and brains to seek answers in this world,as far
as we can,and to understand, as far as we can, the true messgae from our Maker..
This is a litte way out of topic, but just for the sake of analogies.Those so-called "jihadists' who have taken over
that mall in Nairobi and have killed 59-innocent people and are holding hundreds more innocent people as hostages,
even while I am on my keyboard churning out this posting.Berjihad sah ke pengganas2 tu?Just because they say
"jihad", don`t tell tell me we can swallow that claim hook,line and sinker, without due consideration and further
deliberation?
IMHO.
Azman Aris
FV68
MS House
On Sun, Sep 22, 2013 at 11:03 PM, Khairil Skymmar <ksky...@mcoba.org> wrote:
it depends.
i take the view that it is not islamic banking system but rather a legally-sanctioned scam using arabic terms to dupe unsuspecting people who are in search of religious correctness.
if it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then surely it is a duck.
but that's just me.
khairil skymmar
8488
On Sep 22, 2013 11:31 PM, "zahid aziz" <za...@hotmail.com> wrote:No, no its not that bad. Now its a question of survival in the hereafter. Anything wrong with Islamic banking and finance we rely on the rule of taqlid i.e. the Scholars answer to Allah swt on our behalf.
However if we abandon Islamic Financing because we don't like it or to us its just like conventional; we are on our own no scholars to answer on our behalf. We justify direct to Allah swt. Not a good move bro. I prefer the other option where the Scholars take the hit.
Take the safe option stick with Islamic financing warts and all. The deemed savings are too small compared to the risk we are taking.
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 23:09:29 +1000
Subject: RE: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
From: ksky...@mcoba.org
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
bro zahid,
bukan ke islamic banking yang kita discuss sekarang, ni the practice of riba sugarcoated with an islamic sounding name, and made worse by being rigid to the letter?
that was the issue brought up by bro ghajo, right?
khairil skymmar
8488
On Sep 22, 2013 11:02 PM, "zahid aziz" <za...@hotmail.com> wrote:Basir,
When I teach my students/participants in my courses I always remind them that no matter how I may criticise Islamic banking I enjoin them to use only Islamic financing, warts and all. Conventional takut bro ; mafhum hadith, seringan ringan dosa riba ialah saperti berzina dengan ibu sendiri! So bior le, the whatever deemed savings from going conventional is just not worth it, tak berbaloi!
Ikhlas,
Zahid
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2013 02:40:59 -0700
From: mba...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
bang zahid,on the client side,kalau dia nak refinance after the lock in period in order to get some cashwill u still propose islamic homeloan package ?
rgds
From: zahid aziz <za...@hotmail.com>
To: mcoba google <mcoba...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
--I believe this is the nouveau Islamic Bankers tactic to insert a commitment fee into the Islamic facility.
Commitment fees are charged by conventional banks when you settle early a loan. This upsets them because their Treasury have matched a deposit to the tenor of your loan. Their calculations go haywire when you pre settle. Thick with the bully attitude of 300 years of riba they must not lose a single cent and you must pay. Therefore you have to pay commitment fee or break up fee.
True Islamic banking does not allow this because this is associated with rental of money when Islamic banking is about a sale.
You need to understand in a BBA or other deferred payment sale the Bank is technically entitled to charge for the full Selling Price for it was a sale. However they usually gives you a rebate to be fair but it is still at their absolute discretion.
In the old days we calculate redemption amounts at exactly what it should be without any add on.
Current nouveau Islamic Bankers include an add on because they want to mirror the commitment fee or break up fee in conventional.
Zahid
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 11:31:02 -0700
From: mba...@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
my cimb islamic homeloan pun samasettlement higher than principaltak berkurangrasa macam kena tipu dalam masjidi suspect that you must know better what is happening on the ground. ko guano ?rgds
From: zahid aziz <za...@hotmail.com>
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2013 12:05 AM
Subject: RE: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
--Bro ask them to show you the redemption statement and at what rate they take as profit element in each instalment. However it is difficult to believe no reduction in cost at all unless it is deliberately structured that way. Ask them also why the redemption amount is higher than cost/principal. If it is to penalise you for early settlement thats no good. That is in lieu of commitment fee which is associated with rental of money.
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
From: rr....@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 15:17:10 +0000
"... portions of his instalments that went to reduce the cost portion ..."
This is what being practised by the conventional banks now and before I believe but apparently not by my "islamic" bankers here. Ok My financing actually has a tierred repayment schedule ie lower during 1st 5 years and gradually increasing. Nonetheless, I still believe that "portions of my instalments shd hv gone to reduce the cost portion" no matter how little.
G86
.Sent by Maxis from my BlackBerry® smartphoneFrom: zahid aziz <za...@hotmail.com>Sender: mcoba...@googlegroups.comDate: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 07:28:03 +0000To: mcoba google<mcoba...@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo: mcoba...@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic FinancingAssalamu 'Alaikum,
Yes Bro SM I am aware of the current indiscretions done in the name of Islamic banking. I use the word current unreservedly for in my days of Islamic banking circa 1990-2000 when at most there were two banks, Bank Islam and Bank Muamalat such situations as described by our fellow Mcob here never arose. Every fixed instalment for house purchase, which would usually be under BBA or deferred payment sale akad, will have a portion that goes to reduce cost portion and balance to reduce the profit portion. This is done under the Constant Rate of Return Method. Therefore a reduction in cost/principal would take place from the first instalment.
Then enter the new group of Islamic bankers other than Bank Islam, Bank Muamalat and I will also exclude from this group KFH, AFB And AlRajhi. These new group of Islamic bankers are still very much thick in their conventional ways and started demanding a lot of things from Bank Negara which Bank Islam and Bank Muamalat never dreamt of asking in the name of Shariah compliancy. It is not an exaggeration these neuvo or pseudo Islamic bankers, if you like, wanted "Islamic' products which have conventional risk and return profiles with an Arabic name!
The party they made the request to, BNM, are at the best of times probably not the best party to lead Islamic Banking. All Central Bankers go to school in Basel at the Bank of International Settlements which in turn is controlled by the Federal Reserve Of America. And if you understand the Federal Reserve, the Central Bank of America are privately owned by individuals who owned all the big banks in America you will catch my drift......
Now to our poor Mcob's dilemma. He will not be in this position in my days of Islamic banking. We would have taken into account portions of his instalments that went to reduce the cost portion and the settlement price will be much lower than original cost/ principal amount. The assumption here of course is that there is no default and there is no grace period where instalments are low to spare early contribution to capital.
By the way next month or so you might hear of some mud slinging on older Islamic bankers of my generation. Please don't believe everything you hear, seek clarification from those you know. Just remember that many of the early batch of Islamic bankers joined the industry at half pay just to serve the religion. The older generation of Islamic banking Management might be guilty of negligence but corruption of which they accused is just as ugly as riba. As to the reasons for the accusations I am not at liberty to explain please seek the explanation on an individual basis from those in the know.
Wassalam,
Zahid
"I fear the day when the disbelievers are proud of their falsehood, and the Muslims are shy of their faith." [Umar ibn al-Khattab]
http://zahidsay.blogspot.com/
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2013 16:18:40 +1000
Subject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financing
From: ksky...@mcoba.org
To: mcoba...@googlegroups.com
sistem perbankan al ong.
khairil skymmar
8488
On Sep 21, 2013 4:09 PM, "Adris Saari C75" <dra...@mcoba.org> wrote:i have no background in finance, islamic or otherwise, but the bottomline is:initial loan 234k.bayar 1k+ per mth for 8 yrs easily >100k already.nak settle, kena bayar 244k? more than initial loan!you can put fancy islamic-sounding names to it mudharabah, mughalazah, mutawasitah blah blah blah...but it sounds like along-style financing to me.
On Sat, Sep 21, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Syed Mohamed <sms...@gmail.com> wrote:Islamic financing is, in a sense, rigid, as it is based on a fixed contract.Petronas had built several plants using Islamic financing, but the sale and buy back agreement and the installment payments were of 10-12 years usually, and there was no intention of selling the plants to 3rd parties or of wanting to prematurely end the financing agreement.For individuals buying property, for example, I think there are flexible financing arrangements available that are not necessarily labled as Islamic but looks quite Islamic in practical sense, and no penalty if settled after x years. I think individuals should avoid rigid agreements lasting more than say 5-8 years, as individuals are less certain of the future than established institutions or companies.There is one bank that opens an account for you, and debit the amount loaned to the account, and charge interest on it on monthly rest. The payment rate is fixed, but you can deposit extra amounts into the account, at any time, to lower the actual deficit amount, and the interest is charged based on the actual deficit rather than on the outstanding loan amount. After 5 years or so, you can settle everything, if you want and can afford to, without penalty. In this way, you are free to endeavour to minimise your financial burden.But here I use the term 'interest', which according to one school of thought, constitutes 'riba', although another school interpret 'riba' as something imposed that is excessive and burdensome, like what the Jews during the time of Nabi Isa a.s. used to do, and alongs and loan sharks do today in our country.So the question, by the second school of thought, in Ghajo's case, is whether the 'Islamic financing' burden was excessive and punitive, thereby pushing it into 'riba' territory?Maybe bro Zahid, the Islamic financing expert in here, can give his views? And others too, please.sm'63m
On Friday, 20 September 2013, Syed Mohamed wrote:
This is the part of Islamic Financing that is punitive - early payment or settlement. Sounds macam unIslamic aje.
Sepatutnya bila orang hendak bayar balik dalam 8 tahun, instead of 30 tahun, kira balik ler berapa untung at 7.95% tu, plus some reasonable admin costs markups maybe.
sm'63ms
On Friday, 20 September 2013, Khairil Skymmar wrote:jual agama. untung macam yahudi.
khairil skymmar
8488
On Sep 20, 2013 11:05 PM, <mind.u...@gmail.com> wrote:Ini ahlong berlesen.. Haha
Todd
Class of 2003, AhmadSent from my BlackBerry® wireless device via Vodafone-Celcom Mobile.From: Adris Saari C75 <dra...@mcoba.org>Sender: mcoba...@googlegroups.comDate: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 17:53:53 +0800To: mcoba-mail<mcoba...@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo: mcoba...@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: [MCOBA Mail] Penyelesaian awal untuk Islamic Financingalong mana ni?2013/9/20 <rr....@yahoo.com>
Selepas 8 tahun (sejak Mac 2005), bila nak fully settle, kena bayar lebih dari pokok pinjaman. Ada ke patut? Alahai!
Bros semua esp those bankers,
Any thought to this?
@@@
Di sini saya terangkan pengiraan dibuat:-
Jumlah pembiayaan : RM234,527.00
Kadar Keuntungan : 7.95%
Tempoh : 360 bulan
Dalam penjanjian awal yang tuan telah tandatangan melalui prinsip syariah terdapat harga kos & harga jual beli aset seperti berikut:-
Harga kos : RM234,527.00 (jumlah pembiayaan)
Jumlah keuntungan bank selama 30tahun :
RM382,048.03Jadi harga jual (kos+untung) :
RM616,575.03 yang perlu tuan ansurkan selama 30 tahun
Jadual bayaran balik :-
31.3.05 : RM1,370.17 X 6thn X 12bln : RM98,652.24
31.3.11 : RM1,541.44 X 29bln : RM44,701.76 (sehingga Ogos 2013)
31.3.17 : RM1,712.71
31.3.23 : RM1,883.98
31.3.29 : RM2,055.25
BAKI KASAR PEMBIAYAAN = HARGA JUAL - BAYARAN YANG TELAH DIBUAT
= RM616,575.03 - RM143,354.00
= RM473,221.03
JUMLAH PENJELASAN AWAL = BAKI KASAR PEMBIAYAAN - REBATE
= RM473,221.03 - REBATE
= RM244,792.79 (ANGGARAN SEHINGGA 2 PADA 30.9.2013)
Sent by Maxis from my BlackBerry® smartphone
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--Syed MohamedSKILLSIDE CONSULTING SDN BHD
--Syed MohamedSKILLSIDE CONSULTING SDN BHD
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