advice on strong finish for bar

[jafo]

Bidding on an old bar....the client doesn't NOT want to strip the wood and wants to keep the "patina and character" of the old bar....back from the 40's....I get it.....looks ok.....but over the course of time and life, someone slapped a coat of something...probably poly over it....the trouble is, in certain areas, I can scratch it off with my fingernail...

So here is the dilemma....to I even bother?  Do I bid, but offer no guarantee since the old is flaking off?  I could probably go around and scuff sand the bejesus out of it removing any old finish that flakes off, go over it with some glaze and it will look good....but what do you recommend I finish it with?  I will spray it on....What will last as long as possible?  I know that are making the old KW FDP again, but if they are making it like they make KW Stripper recipe....are they staying true to the formula????  doubtful.....Some of the stronger finishes don't like being sprayed over previous finishes....so I am a little stumped here......  Your thoughts would be appreciated...

[Darrelk]

Okay, first let me just say that I've been in business too long and am probably too old to tiptoe around potential customers.  I'm the restorer, here is what needs to be done, and this is how I'm going to do it.... I am going to give you the best of "me" and what I do.  There is a very finite amount of "me" left but I can do this job correctly and give you my best process for this application.  I'd take the client over to one of those failing clear areas and take my thumbnail and rake it across a small area.   YOU DON'T WANT ME TO REMOVE THAT???!  I need to strip this because I can't bond to THAT.....  I'll be as gentle as possible with my removal but stuff that is going to interfere with the new coating has got to go.....  As far as bar tops go....a guarantee on the worst wear surface you can have???  The coating on any item is a wear surface which starts breaking down from the time we shoot it.  I can guarantee my workmanship/application and that's about it....  I've had better luck selling Hood's Magnashield which is a premium pre-cat and telling the owners right up front....this stuff is repairable and can be overcoated.... so we are then talking about wear/tear and future maintenance.  You might even want to discuss future dates for inspection and possible service.   This shows trust/longevity of your company. 
I always laugh when we are out at restaurants/bars and I see the latest in new table top coatings that have been tried and ultimately fail.  Polyesters, epoxies, polys, hybrids, etc.  Stuff fails...... 

[jafo]

Amen!  Thanks Darrel.  I first gave a bid of "rough numbers" so they can budget it in...strip, repair, refinish.....they came back saying they didn't want to strip.....So I told them, your ok with paying less now...for a job that may last a few years, then paying again later to deal with it?   Yes.

This was coming from the contractor....When I met the owner, I showed them as I scratched the finish off....My stuff is only as good as what is underneath.....The only good part about this is there is SOOOO much wear and tear and "character" to this old bar, that if something was to start to fail....it would probably blend in.....

The only bar top that I have seen that would hold up was granite.  I too have yet to see a bar top (even poured epoxy) last....I am using a pre cat and vinyls sealer from chemisphere...I will have to look into that.

Is anyone using the Kwick Dry Poly from Flo Strip with any success?

[Joe]

I'd pass.  Clients sometimes want unreasonable things and even if you say you won't warrantee it, they could still try to hold you responsible if something goes wrong, or fill out bad reviews for you online.  Only if you can get double your normal wage, which is unlikely since you'll probably underbid it with products you haven't used before.  Risk reward does not add up, unless you are desperate for money.

Just my 2 cents,

Joe Naiser

Naiser Furniture Restorations

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From: jafo <capt....@gmail.com>
To: WoodFinishing & Furniture Restorer's Guide <woodfinis...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 4:43 PM
Subject: [WoodFinishing Guide: 342] advice on strong finish for bar

Bidding on an old bar....the client doesn't NOT want to strip the wood and wants to keep the "patina and character" of the old bar....back from the 40's....I get it.....looks ok.....but over the course of time and life, someone slapped a coat of something...probably poly over it....the trouble is, in certain areas, I can scratch it off with my fingernail...

So here is the dilemma....to I even bother?  Do I bid, but offer no guarantee since the old is flaking off?  I could probably go around and scuff sand the bejesus out of it removing any old finish that flakes off, go over it with some glaze and it will look good....but what do you recommend I finish it with?  I will spray it on....What will last as long as possible?  I know that are making the old KW FDP again, but if they are making it like they make KW Stripper recipe....are they staying true to the formula????  doubtful.....Some of the stronger finishes don't like being sprayed over previous finishes....so I am a little stumped here......  Your thoughts would be appreciated...

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[Tim Inman]

Well, you guys have got it pretty much right on. Either do the job right, or don't do it at all. A 'half-fast' job always bites in the butt in the end. Sorry to be blunt, but blunt is called for here.

I think the nugget in this story is in one little detail: The contractor was the one specifying the 'no strip' job. The owner was the one paying the bill. Lesson: ALWAYS work for and take direction from the person who pays the bill. The contractor was probably after something that would look great as he walked away from the job with the owner's check in his hand. That's all he wanted. The owner, of course, expected it would stay looking great. As Darrel knows, church work is full of this kind of trouble. The design committee wants it one way, and the church treasurer wants it another way, and the congregation has to hold a business meeting to get a vote from the full church to approve the bill. You can't win!

Keep at it!

Tim Inman

[Tim Inman]

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-5, Tim Inman wrote:

Well, you guys have got it pretty much right on. Either do the job right, or don't do it at all. A 'half-fast' job always bites in the butt in the end. Sorry to be blunt, but blunt is called for here.

I think the nugget in this story is in one little detail: The contractor was the one specifying the 'no strip' job. The owner was the one paying the bill. Lesson: ALWAYS work for and take direction from the person who pays the bill. The contractor was probably after something that would look great as he walked away from the job with the owner's check in his hand. That's all he wanted. The owner, of course, expected it would stay looking great. As Darrel knows, church work is full of this kind of trouble. The design committee wants it one way, and the church treasurer wants it another way, and the congregation has to hold a business meeting to get a vote from the full church to approve the bill. (And the Pastor is an indecisive weeny.) You can't win!

[Dennis Dittman]

Hi Tim

I never listen to customers. I explain what I do and have an extensive portfolio. When I was in Denver, customers called the Antiques Roadshow and they said I was doing the finest restoration in the world.  I called them to thank them. I had people bring me valuable items from East Coast cities. So.......I'm a snob!

Dennis

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[Dennis Dittman]

Hi Tim

I never listen to customers. I have an extensive portfolio with lots of before and after photos. I restore items to what they looked like when they were new. I never do custom finishes!

Dennis

Virus-free. www.avast.com

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Dennis Dittman <dennis...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Tim

I never listen to customers. I explain what I do and have an extensive portfolio. When I was in Denver, customers called the Antiques Roadshow and they said I was doing the finest restoration in the world.  I called them to thank them. I had people bring me valuable items from East Coast cities. So.......I'm a snob!

Dennis

On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 7:44 AM, Tim Inman <t...@historicinteriors.com> wrote:

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 8:42:23 AM UTC-5, Tim Inman wrote:

Well, you guys have got it pretty much right on. Either do the job right, or don't do it at all. A 'half-fast' job always bites in the butt in the end. Sorry to be blunt, but blunt is called for here.

I think the nugget in this story is in one little detail: The contractor was the one specifying the 'no strip' job. The owner was the one paying the bill. Lesson: ALWAYS work for and take direction from the person who pays the bill. The contractor was probably after something that would look great as he walked away from the job with the owner's check in his hand. That's all he wanted. The owner, of course, expected it would stay looking great. As Darrel knows, church work is full of this kind of trouble. The design committee wants it one way, and the church treasurer wants it another way, and the congregation has to hold a business meeting to get a vote from the full church to approve the bill. (And the Pastor is an indecisive weeny.) You can't win!

Keep at it!

Tim Inman

On Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 3:43:37 PM UTC-5, jafo wrote:

Bidding on an old bar....the client doesn't NOT want to strip the wood and wants to keep the "patina and character" of the old bar....back from the 40's....I get it.....looks ok.....but over the course of time and life, someone slapped a coat of something...probably poly over it....the trouble is, in certain areas, I can scratch it off with my fingernail...

So here is the dilemma....to I even bother?  Do I bid, but offer no guarantee since the old is flaking off?  I could probably go around and scuff sand the bejesus out of it removing any old finish that flakes off, go over it with some glaze and it will look good....but what do you recommend I finish it with?  I will spray it on....What will last as long as possible?  I know that are making the old KW FDP again, but if they are making it like they make KW Stripper recipe....are they staying true to the formula????  doubtful.....Some of the stronger finishes don't like being sprayed over previous finishes....so I am a little stumped here......  Your thoughts would be appreciated...

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