Stripping Supplies, etc.

[Tim Inman]

Does anyone have a source for the arm sleeves Dave at Kwick Kleen used to carry....heavy duty ones that look like it was made from stripper aprons with elastic on both ends....I had to order some and I can find them...all that is out there is thin flimsy ones?

Ordered some stripper from flo-strip.....prices are higher and shipping is slower...I sure miss Kwick Kleen and the forum.  Still looking for new vendors!

Has anyone spoken to Dave and Charlene?  How are they doing?

Jeff

[Tim Inman]

Sorry, Jeff. I do not have any idea where Dave was getting those arm sleeves. Veterinary suppliers online would be my place to go searching. Vets use these when they go armpit deep into a cow's behind for preg checks.

I see Sharlot's Facebook entries from time to time, but I have not talked with Dave for a long time. I think he's enjoying retirement - at least I hope so!

Tim Inman

[FLOYD KAYLOR]

I sure miss Dave.

---

From: woodfinis...@googlegroups.com <woodfinis...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Tim Inman <t...@historicinteriors.com>
Sent: Monday, February 29, 2016 4:21 PM
To: WoodFinishing & Furniture Restorer's Guide
Subject: [WoodFinishing Guide: 279] Re: Stripping Supplies, etc.

 

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[Darrelk]

Yeah, still miss Dave, too.  Those yellow sleeves are a little harder to find.... You might try Besway Stripping suppliers.  They had the black versions the last time I checked.  They are second only to the yellow ones.  The clear ones a lot o people sell are horrible and don't last.  My local Safety Solutions has the yellow ones but I don't buy enough from them to make it worthwhile for a purchase.  Not surprised about the supply issues on stripper.

[Joe Naiser]

Chemisphere took over Kwick Kleen's strippers.  They have many that are comparable and I think some are better, less temperature sensitive.  They also have all the different solvents you'll need.

Call 1-844-266-4600 ask for Adam and tell him I sent you.

Joe Naiser

Naiser Furniture Restorations

---

From: 'Darrelk' via WoodFinishing & Furniture Restorer's Guide <woodfinis...@googlegroups.com>
To: WoodFinishing & Furniture Restorer's Guide <woodfinis...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 9:28 AM
Subject: [WoodFinishing Guide: 281] Re: Stripping Supplies, etc.

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[capt. Jeff]

Here are some photos...the ones I were using were heavy duty....as thick as the stripper apron and black color....lasted for YEARS!   I just ordered some stuff from Benco and they sent me these...white....might last a month....ugh...tough finding new suppliers...don't have time in the day to find them and work, and taxes...and.......

[Mark Brennan]

I understand Retirement but a supplier for years shouldn't just drop his clients with a months notice. Same problems here, hope Dave enjoys retirement, we're not for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gregory Doublestein]

Just glad to hear everybody chiming in...even when I don't have anything to offer in the way of assistance on this question of supplies.

I have two questions that I'd appreciate some feedback on.  I have a significant opportunity on a federal contract (an extension of work I've previously done).  However, the feds are no longer allowing me to use my standard Kwick Kleen lacquer and Fast Dry Poly...gotta use Low VOC, water based stuff.  I have never wanted to use it and have no experience using it (afraid of fast drying times for example).  I also hate the look.  This is for an historic project that demands the beauty of the Kwick Kleen system (stains and top coats).  But everything is about "the environment" now.  This is a substantial opportunity, and I have an "in" because of previous work...just hate to let it go.

So...should I avoid the temptation to fall in line on the water based low-VOC products...any thoughts on what I should do?  I'm thinking that with no experience using low-VOC products, and the difficulties I've heard that they present, not to mention the less than desirable look, I should either persuade the government to use my Kwick Kleen products, or take a pass.

The other issues are that: 1) I need a couple people to join me in the project, living out of a hotel for several weeks, and 2) I am starting to look for someone who wants to move to Indianapolis to buy my building and business in the long-term.  Anybody have thoughts on this or know of someone STARTING their career (as opposed to me CLOSING DOWN my working life over the next five to ten years).  Private message me if you know of something or someone.

The pressing issue though is the matter of switching to low-VOC water based products for this historic restoration job for the feds.  Advice will be appreciated as soon as possible... I'm meeting with them next week.  Thanks so much!!

--

[furnituredr]

Try General Finishes 800-783-6050

Sent from my Kyocera DuraForce, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

[Darrelk]

Hey, there, HistoricDoor.... I worked with water based lacquers and polys for about 14 years.  Hung along with Hydrocote, Basic Coatings, Tim's stuff at Minuteman, etc.  It isn't that you can't master the learning the application learning curve... it's just that you can come close to the look of solvent systems but, at least in my opinion, can't duplicate it. Another aspect I felt never got resolved was durability regarding fading.  Personal samples I kept for myself over the years... some faded a little, others a lot.  It was a "cloudiness" that developed and only got worse.  If you got this route I'd contact www.hoodfinishing.com and try to talk with Eric about your project.  I am currently not using water based....my customers dictate that more than me.

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 4:18:55 PM UTC-5, Tim Inman wrote:

[Gregory Doublestein]

Great advice, Darrel!  I have already told GSA that I don't think they want to go this direction for many reasons over the past year...you have confirmed some of what I've been hearing elsewhere.  This is a significant project and I've already demonstrated the beauty (and ease) of the solvent systems in the very same building over the past five years.  My work has been praised and sought after by the building tenants (federal district court), but GSA (the landlord) is insisting on environmentally friendly products.  They are concerned about "odors" and not adding VOC's to the air, but I understand that the water-based finishes have their own "smell problems", and I'm told that the production of these Eco friendly products creates serious VOC's anyway. They are also concerned about safety, but I have already demonstrated that the work can be done safely.  I will be meeting with GSA and court officials next week...they have been looking to me for my expertise (nice, but I'm feeling inadequate on these new finishes especially with their apparent success in the auto industry), but how do you beat back " earth friendly solutions'?  I've even played the "part of historic preservation is preserving the historic finish" card...I don't seem to be making progress.  Solvents have problems, but at least I can control most of that.  I can't solve the humidity problem that the water based finishes are so sensitive to.

Then, there is the issue of "the look".  Photos of one historic courthouse project in New York was recently shown to me as an example of " acceptable" by GSA...the contractor did a "halfstrip" and then re-coated with Minwax Polyshade finish...absolutely horrid!  [True, Polyshades is a solvent product, and things have changed since then as far as acceptable finishes...my point is that the standard for "beauty" is very low.]. Ruined everything in my mind.

I think that I have to scare GSA into not requiring the Eco friendly products....somehow.  Even if they select another vendor to do the work.  I am/will be grateful for real life stories like yours, Darrel, to try to explain the downside. I've got one more shot.  NO ONE IS ADVOCATING for the use of solvent based products in government now.  Even the "experts" at GSA don't understand...I'm not sure that fighting the system is worth my time.  But thanks again!

Greg Doublestein
317-578-9789

--

[Tom Arms]

I don't know if this would be of help. I have gone back to using Mohawk Finishing. And they have and low VOC lacquer. Their regular lacquer has a VOC of 550, the low VOC is 275, and their water is 186. Call them at 800-545-0047 website is Mohawk-finishing.com

Have a great day
 Tom Arms

Arms Furniture Restoration Studio
77140 State HWY 13
Washburn, WI 54891

http://www.furniturerestoringstudio.com/

Cell (715)209-2744
arm...@hotmail.com

---

Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 12:44:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [WoodFinishing Guide: 289] Re: Stripping Supplies, etc.
From: thefront...@gmail.com
To: woodfinis...@googlegroups.com

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[Petes Furniture Repair]

I not a fan of waterbase either.  If this is a historic project, can you  approach them from the angle of we want to keep the finishing historically correct and use lacquer like it was originally?

Perhaps push that historically correct is the better choice on a Historic restoration than environmentally correct?

Brian

Petes Furniture Repair

[Gregory Doublestein]

Tim, wasn't aware of the low VOC lacquers... I'll call Mohawk about it.  Wonder if it has water in it?  But I'll check.  Was application of the low VOC similar to your experience with KK lacquers?  Look similar?

[Gregory Doublestein]

Thanks Brian.  I agree with your idea of pushing the historic preservation card on this.  I've tried to no avail.  Surprised me...usually the historic folks have veto power.  On this project, the woodwork in question was only finished with Shellac and wax, so I can talk about keeping the shellac (removing the wax of course) and use it as my sealer (and be able to make the claim that I've preserved the original finish), but now we have much color repair (sun damage) and we need a more substantial top coat.  I got a color match with KK stains...they did a beautiful job of blending the existing with the new...gotta stat away from any stripping... I can only clean (which actually is sufficient to remove damaged finish).  I don't think water-based stains will bite into the Shelksc like the solvent stains, and then there are the problems Darrel mentioned with the water based top coats.

I already did a 10' by 10' section to show what could be achieved... turned out great, and everybody loved it...except then GSA came in and said, no can use the High VOC nasty.

I'll push the historic angle again in my meeting with them next week.  Good thought!

[Gregory Doublestein]

I hope all the contributions in this thread are getting to everyone...my responses may only be going to the one person who responded.  I show 18 responses.

[Gregory Doublestein]

I had another thought:  has anyone used the water-based top coats over traditional Shellac?  Or must I use the synthetic shellac that is water based?  Ugh!!!

[Darrelk]

Greg,
Yeah, I've used water based over shellac however it was in Tim's Minuteman hybrid water based system.  My point being that was a bare wood applied system.  We used fresh flake shellac "in" the wood, water based sealer, then a low VOC solvent based topcoat.  Just not sure you'll get much good grip with water based over that existing coating.  We were never able to achieve good in-shop results putting water based over existing coatings for a refurb. process.  I would do a tape pull test after curing and they always failed miserably.  And, just some info. by the way.... the auto painting aftermarket is using ONLY water based color base coats, NOT clear topcoats.  I am a fiberglass forum moderator over at www.autobody101.com and the best that has been achieved is a low VOC clear topcoats, not waterbased.  I don't know about this green stuff sometimes.... people say do this do that but when I pass the local double drive through at McDonalds which is next to the Starbucks drive through I still see all their tailpipes smoking. 
"They" don't seem to want to think or hear about that.

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[drdo...@gmail.com]

  I am way late to the discussion , but also struggle with changing over to a lower VOC compliant finish.    I have a Door Refinishing company based out of the Phoenix AZ Area and have been struggling to find a suitable finish to replace the lacquer I currently use.  Currently I am using a Sherwin Williams sanding sealer, then a Sherwin Williams DRE  Dull Medium Affect precat lacquer, that I get very good predictable results.    For the interior of course.  For the exterior I am experimenting with oil modified acrylic finish, that isn't necessarily designed for doors, but it has properties I like for strength and durability .  Plus it has superior water resistance over poly's that work well when they are a un breached surface, but with the Arizona sun/heat and movement of panels, as soon as the water/moisture has a chance to get to a crack or panel relief, it spreads out and pops the poly off the door.   The oil modified acrylic fails in a different way.  The oil modifier actually penetrates the wood better then it still allows the door to breathe.  When it begins to fail it actually flakes, which makes it easier to touch up color, recoat  with the results  appearing, almost like the day you refinished the door, initially.   The drawbacks are appearance.   I do things a little more unconventional.  I use Sherwin  Williams solvent based stains.  Sherwin Williams states that these stains are not suitable for exterior application.  I have found in my many years experience, they work fine if they are top coated correctly.  It's not the stains I get the failure from.  Then the acrylic is applied, but it ends up looking as though the door isn't finished at all.  It has a more natural wood appearance, with the rich  color etc,   but also has a very minor texture too .  I am currently looking for a replacement coating to give me the best of both worlds.  So here I am,  to add, or learn information from the group, that seems to have lots of experience as well .  Water base has been a struggle at best.  Reading earlier, I see I have the same response as some of you not liking the results

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[Tom Arms]

I have not use the low VOC from Mohawk yet, so I can't tell you about it. They say that it meets maximum VOC content for job site application anywhere in the U.S.A.

Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S®4 Active™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

On Monday, February 29, 2016 at 4:18:55 PM UTC-5, Tim Inman wrote:

Does anyone have a source for the arm sleeves Dave at Kwick Kleen used to carry....heavy duty ones that look like it was made from stripper aprons with elastic on both ends....I had to order some and I can find them...all that is out there is thin flimsy ones?

Ordered some stripper from flo-strip.....prices are higher and shipping is slower...I sure miss Kwick Kleen and the forum.  Still looking for new vendors!

Has anyone spoken to Dave and Charlene?  How are they doing?

Jeff

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[Gregory Doublestein]

Excellent!  Exactly the kind of experience I need to know.  Thank you so much!  I'll let you know what they say next week.  GRATEFUL!

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[John Previti]

For exterior or really heavy use I have used deftane by deft. It's been around for a long time. I think I used it 30 yrs ago. It may have reformulated to drop vocs but it is like an old fashioned varnish in application (it's a poly pretty sure). Overnight or longer per coat. U can get it in spray cans but I usually brush on wait til dry rub out and put another coat on. It turns to white powder if it dry enough to sand. I have a door to my shop that has about 12 lights on it.  I put 8 coats on it in my workshop and it has held up with no failure for about 7 or 8 yrs. now, it is not in direct sun but it does get wet and exposed to snow. I would not bother trying to spray as it would need a really clean spray room to use. Clean up is mineral spirits. But I would not put in a gun. I would just tell client if indistructability is what u want brush strokes u will have to live with. On side of can it says used on space shuttle and queen Mary . Anyway my 2 cents worth.

John Previti

Golden age cabinet

Paoli,pa

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[Gregory Doublestein]

Thanks John.  This customer isn't terribly concerned about durability.  I'm pretty sure the Deft products would not meet the low VOC requirement they are looking for, but appreciate your contribution.  There are lots of products to choose from...my concern is that there are many issues in the application of these new products, and the "look" is not appropriate for an historic restoration.  We'll see.

[Gregory Doublestein]

I had another question for the group on waterborne and low VOC finishes...are they difficult to repair and maintain, and what about recoating in subsequent years?  Thanks.

On Mar 3, 2016 4:55 PM, "John Previti" <j.pr...@verizon.net> wrote:

[Darrelk]

Yes, I've used several low VOC coatings over the years and they are really no different in touch-up than most other coatings.  About 1/4 of my total business is devoted to touch-up work on the road so we work on a variety of coatings on furniture, woodwork, even high end flooring, and there is little that we can't repair. The water based coatings sometimes do require a little "testing" before jumping into it.  If it is a known water base that we have applied almost all of those can be touched up with regular lacquers.  Worse case scenario with a "reactive" coating we would just lightly clean, sand back, and use fresh flake shellac as a barrier and switch to our regular lacquer touch-up materials from there....

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