Fw: Fw: Jesse1e Womack

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ginge...@peoplepc.com

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Aug 14, 2008, 10:47:09 AM8/14/08
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Dear Group...
 
This message is being posted at Beth's request from a personal e-mail to her in response to her interest in Jesse1e.  There are important caveats which MUST be heeded. Much of the genealogical and historical surety of what follows, rises only to the level of myth or urban legend.{:-)  Please treat this material as clues about where to look for facts, nothing more. I may have documentation buried somewhere in my files, but I don't have much time to dig it out.
 
I have taken the liberty to redact some of Beth's reply to me to save space, so she may send that material independently to the group as she pleases.
 
Tom
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Jesse1e Womack

Wow! What a surprise to hear from you, Tom!  How is/was Alma Hill Robertson related to you?  She's the lady who studied your line back in the 1960s. 
 
"Mrs. Alma Hill Robertson., (Mrs. John J.). 1842 North Louisa, Shawnee., Oklahoma sends the following on branches of the family in the above states. In addition to the data published below, Mrs. Robertson sends five pages from the Georgia State Archives, which, due to lack of space, is not included in this article. An exerpt from her letter: "I truly regret that WOMACK GENEALOGY is to be discontinued. It has furnished such an abundance of early Womack data. I have worlds of Womack material which has been sent to me but as yet I have been unable to take my line beyond a Richard Womack who was in Washington County, Miss. Territory (now Alabama) by 1805."
 
I don't know if you've seen Robert Burke's web pages, but I'm including these URL's so we can talk about your family. 
 
The research of Alma Hill Robertson
 
Robert's census records up to 1850.  Please go to the 1850 Mississippi census
 
Robert's Pre-1851 Womack Identification Project
 
I can't tell you how many times I've read your post of 13 Mar 2001 on genforum.genealogy.com/Womack
 
 
Tom, please post the info you've given me, especially the history of the Choctaw Nation in MS and of Jesse and his family immediately!  You'll put our friend, Robert Burke to work on this info!
 
Thanks for writing, Tom.  I look forward to exploring Jesse's family's life!   

--- On Wed, 8/6/08, ginge...@peoplepc.com <ginge...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
From: ginge...@peoplepc.com <ginge...@peoplepc.com>
Subject: Fw: Jesse1e Womack
To: "Beth" <walton...@sbcglobal.net>
Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2008, 10:53 PM

preliminary note: "Jesse1e" simply designates that this is the first "Jesse" in my Womack database and he is a 4th or "e" generation descendant of William1a through Richard1b, Richard2c and Richard 3d. The Jesses, Davids, Richards, Williams, Johns and Abners were driving me nuts until I started using this system to separate them.
 
 

Hi Beth...
 
Don't know just what cousin you might be, but your interest in Jesse is "right up my alley".
 
Thus spake Beth:
"If you agree
that Jesse's wife's name is a moot point right now, lets look at the
records that have been found on Jesse and get a clear understanding of
his life from VA to GA to Alabama.  I have a lot of questions about
what his motives were when his family obtained passports from the
governor of GA to travel through Native American lands to Alabama.

It's clear to me that Jacob was always a soldier, and lived among the
Cherokees, but was Jesse?  Or was he an adverturer seeking new
horizons?"
 
Jesse and his descendants are my people.{:-) I don't have all the appropriate documentation at hand so I don't dare post to the "Group", but I can give you some historical perspective off the top of my head and a few references up with which to follow (I hate prepositions at the end of a sentence). {:-) Don't take any of the following as gospel until you verify it independently. {:-)
 
Back in those days, post-Rev War, Spanish Florida ran all the way over to the Mississippi River and so did the Mississippi Territory (MST). The eastern part from the Chattahooche (sp) to the Tombigbee was Creek Nation. West of the Tombigbee  to the Mississippi was Choctaw Territory. The Spanish Fort of San Esteban de Tombecbe on the West bank of the river above Mobile became Fort St. Stephens and was the western terminus of the Federal Road from Milledgeville, GA through the Creek Nation, hence the requirement for passports. The British delighted in keeping the Creeks all stirred up and on the warpath against any Americans who ventured through their territory, so it was quite courageous to make the trek to the safety of Fort St. Stephens on the Choctaw (friendly) side of the river. William Bowling, my 4th GGF, signed the passports in 1802 for my 4GGF, Jesse1e Womack and son, John N. "Jack" Womack, to take the family to Fort St. Stephens. The Old Choctaw Trading Post at Fort St. Stephens was the eastern terminus of the Choctaw Trading Path which ran through present day Washington Co AL, Choctaw Co AL, Jasper Co MS, Smith Co MS, Simpson Co MS and Copiah Co MS to the Pearl River where it met the Natchez Trace.
 
One of the villages along the path in Smith Co MS is Sylvarena where my Grandfather Hill was born. His mother was Mary Cordenia Womack who was named for her grandmother, Cordenia Bowling, daughter of William Bowling. So that brings us back to Milledgeville GA about 1802 where Jesse1e Womack is packing up his family to go to Fort St. Stephens. I suspect that he was at least partially motivated by a desire for land to build a plantation and possibly by his wife, Phoebe's, desire to settle near the Choctaw.
 
 The group would have included Jesse and Phoebe, Jack and Frances (Coleman), and Phoebe's sons, William, Richard Mansel, Jesse Jr, and Francis M "Frank". Jesse and the boys built the plantation at Womack Hill up the river from Fort St Stephens and appear on petitions, real estate tax rolls, poll tax rolls, and census rolls at various times and combinations from 1804-1808. These clues are in the Carter Territorial Papers vol V (I think), in the Mississippi Archives at Jackson, and Washington Co MST census records.
 
 Jesse appears in all these records until 1810 when his executor paid his poll tax. I believe that Jesse died in 1810 in Washington Co MST rather than Madison Co GA in 1815. Jack, William, Richard, Jesse Jr and Frank all paid poll tax in 1811 but Frank did not pay in 1808. Some researchers put Frank ahead of Jesse Jr in birth order (1787 vs 1791), but that would mean Jesse Jr signed a petition to Congress at age 14 in 1805. Not likely. Further, the tradition of naming the third son (after both grandfathers are acknowledged) Junior could only have applied if Jack was the son of Jesse's first wife and Jesse Jr was the third son of his second wife. That is my hypothesis!
 
Now we get to the Native American heritage part. This is both geographical and genealogical. In 1800 the Choctaw owned the western and southern halves of MS. The TRS system of survey (township, range, section) in MS is based on a latitude line called the Choctaw Baseline which runs under Jasper, Smith, Simpson and Copiah Co. From there down to the top of Jackson, Harrison, and Hancock Co is a band of land across the state which was ceded to the U.S. by the Choctaw in 1805. White settlers were allowed into this section. In 1812 the three coastal counties were ceded by the Pascagoula and Biloxi tribes for settlement and seaport access. White settlers wanted to expand northward above the Choctaw Baseline along the Pearl River and the Natchez Trace up toward Nashville, so the Second Choctaw Cession was negotiated in the Treaty of Doak's Stand in 1820. This opened up settlement of Hinds, Copiah and Simpson Co above the baseline. In 1830, the Third Choctaw Cession along the eastern part of the baseline opened up Smith and Jasper Cos. So that is where the Choctaw were until they were pushed onto reservations in MS and OK. Between 1820 and 1822, Frank moved his family from AL, first to Simpson Co MS when it was opened for settlement and then to Smith Co where he and his sons, John Abner and Jesse, patented land adjacent to the Boykins and Thorntons. This area was the heart of Choctaw Territory until it was ceded to the U.S.
 
Now, genealogically, it seems that Phoebe must have been Choctaw because Jesse wasn't and our family has a lot of N/A features even down to my first cousins.
 
Phoebe's son, Frank (my 3rd GGF) married Malinda Kennedy. I have successfully traced her mitochondrial DNA to a woman in Idaho and shown that she was of European origin. Therefore the N/A features were passed down from Frank. Further, Phoebe's son, Richard Mansel, had a son, Abraham James, by his first wife.  He was nicknamed "Indian Abe". I have located a descendant of Abraham James who confirms that he was distinctly N/A.
 
 Frank's son, John Abner, married a Boykin from old VA stock supposedly going back to Charlemagne. No N/A there. John Abner's daughter married a Hill from GA, NC, VA lineage, so all these tall (even some of the girls are 6' 2"), squinty eyed, dark-haired, high cheek-boned folks in my family must have gotten it from Phoebe.
 
Aahhh, but you say the Choctaw are short, round folks! How did we get so tall? Well, I have been told that there is a genetic spin-off of the usual Choctaw that are known as the Okla Falala, the long people.
 
John Abner eventually moved his family to north Texas near Oklahoma Indian Territory in 1879. My one y.o. grandfather made the trip, but returned to MS in 1881 with his parents and settled in Smith Co MS.
 
Now, what ever happened to Jack? He had about twenty-eleven kids, but they all seemed to take off for Texas when Jack died in 1848 and Mama Frances went with her daughter to Texas. Phoebe's boys on the other hand (at least William, Richard and Frank) followed the Choctaw Cessions of 1820 and 1830 into central Mississippi and seemed to have "no truck" with the other side of the family. Don't know why.
 
Oh, by the way, I have visited the archeological dig now under way to resurrect the Old Choctaw Trading Post at Fort St. Stephens. When I was there, the main street was just a path through the piney woods of South Alabama carpeted with pine needles. The hum of the cicadas transported me back two hundred years to a place I knew I had been before.
 
More later if you find this useful.
 
Tom Hill
Silver Spring, MD
 
 
 
 
 
 
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