[dev] Suckless paint/graphic editor program

[Fernando]

Hello all,

I am trying to create some simple logos for webpages with a graphic
editor program. In the past, I have used paint from plan9fromuserspace
but it's quite limited in features (colors, drawing shapes).

I am looking for a graphics editor that can:
*use color
*can draw basic lines and shapes
*easy to build (like suckless programs)

I know the last criterion really limits the options but I seriously
don't want to deal with complicated build systems to do basic logos.
Perhaps the program used to make the suckless.org favicons and other
logos would qualify. Any help would be appreciated.

Sincerely,
Fernando

[Dave Blanchard]

Hi, mtpaint and azpainter are two good choices for this job. Both are lean and simple paint programs, and azpainter doesn't even use any widget framework, just the bare X11 API. Both are easily built using the standard configure/make/make install process; azpainter should have something like CC=gcc on the configure line in order to select the desired compiler.

Dave

[LM]

On Mon, Jul 3, 2023 at 4:31 PM Fernando <fernandor...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am looking for a graphics editor that can:
> *use color
> *can draw basic lines and shapes
> *easy to build (like suckless programs)

As far as easy to build, I've built grafx2 (
http://pulkomandy.tk/projects/GrafX2 ) and LodePaint (
https://sourceforge.net/projects/lodepaint/ ) with no issues. Both
use SDL. LodePaint also uses OpenGL. TuxPaint (
https://tuxpaint.org/ ) is another SDL based graphics program.
Another post mentioned MtPaint. There's also rgbPaint (
https://mtpaint.sourceforge.net/rgbpaint.html ) by the same author.
I've built and use Xpaint on a few systems as well:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/sf-xpaint/ If you want a console
based option, I like GLE: https://glx.sourceforge.io/

You could check if Raylib has any graphics editors designed to work
with it. I did run across a minimal CAD program for Nuklear (
https://github.com/zecruel/CadZinho ).

Hope some of them are useful.

[fo...@dnmx.org]

Neither azpainter not mtpaint are suckless.

I don't really consider GTK to be suckless (unless it is), for mtpaint
And I'm looking at wc -l of all src/ mlk/ files and it's A LOOOOT of lines.

I used Tux in the past.. it does SOME very limited jobs, done.
not sure if it can be used for banners and stuff alike that which I'll
need to do in the future

[fo...@dnmx.org]

That's too much options to check out for me, but a console-based option
(to me
that sounds like not needing X11? Because ideally that's what I'd want.. I
want
to get rid of a Window manager and in the future use something like dvtm)

Damn, glx(e) says in their FAQ that you could have just a text file act as a
command-input for drawing! So cool!

[LM]

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 3:36 PM <fo...@dnmx.org> wrote:
> That's too much options to check out for me, but a console-based option
> (to me
> that sounds like not needing X11? Because ideally that's what I'd want.. I
> want
> to get rid of a Window manager and in the future use something like dvtm)

I've been investigating options that don't require X11 as well. I've
only seen two Linux distributions that were able to pull off running
in framebuffer without X, nanolinux which uses nanoX and Rogue Class
Linux. There are more distributions like GRML and INX but they're
mainly console mode only and don't do much with graphics or the
framebuffer. Unfortunately, development on both nanolinux and Rogue
Class Linux systems are no longer active. However, they have some
interesting choices for applications. SDL applications will run in
framebuffer or kmsdrm mode. So you can read documents using bard or
sdlbook without X. If you haven't checked it out,
http://litcave.rudi.ir/ has some great framebuffer programs. I use a
fork of pdftxt (command line program) from there. Also, I've been
experimenting with using netbsd-curses from Sabotage Linux instead of
ncurses.

Last I checked, framebuffer applications ran great from the command
line, but I don't think they played nice with console window managers.
Was rather disappointed in that and I keep looking for other
alternatives. I even investigated some unusual ideas like using sixel
(there's a fork of SDL to output sixel) with a sixel aware console.
Then you could probably use a console window manager like dvtm or mtm.
However, I think it's too slow to be practical. I have a small and
slowly growing list of console and command line programs that I can
use to replace some of the common tasks I do. Always in search of
other interesting and useful alternatives. This mailing list has had
some great program suggestions posted to it. Sites like K.Mandla's
Inconsolation blog are nice resources too. I believe there are some
tty screen capture programs listed there too if you need one.

[fo...@dnmx.org]

I use *BSD systems as much as possible.
FreeBSD has a framebuffer thing, and just running `mpv video.fuck` in a TTY,
X11 down, immediately plays in the TTY, which in my opinion is even easier
than
it was on GNU/Linux last time I tried it!

Really, SDL can do that? NEAT!
I dream of a FPS multiplayer game alike CS:GO that can be played in a
console!
A buddy of mine 'drummyfish' made a game called 'Anarch', it has a few
grapical
settings such as 'SDL', 'terminal', etc.. it's more suckless than Doom
(the old
old one using a few kb of ram).
So one could steal that (he's okay with it) technology (it's reaally low
SLOC)
and make such a game.

This game would ideally be I2P-only :)
So yeah.. not sure how much FPS one could get lmao, but my thinking is
basically this: X11 windows and shit draws pixls, right? Terminal does the
same
thing, just with a looooot less mess, a lot less things to do, so in
theory it
should be even more performant??
Not sure about the direct graphics thing, but like text-output, that
should be
quite easy, although not sure how great for a FPS.. but who knows?
One could make it function say on a 1920x1080 screen, but what about
lower-res? not sure..

I am in no way, shape or form knowledgable about any of this enough, so
perhaps
someone has some insight?
I'd love if we could use the GPU directly like pixel changes, etc, without
all
the 100 fancy APIs, managers, etc.

What also amazes me is how one can change console/TTY brightness only (to my
knowledge) trough xrandr beforehands in X11 lol.. but xrandr says no display
otherwise.. funny.

Will check out this stuff in future, if my eyes get better :( I can barely
write this fucking e-mail.. You never realize how much things you want to do,
to achieve, until it's long gone, until you cannot possibly do them
anymore...
for the time being.

I'm glad there are folks around like you :)

[LM]

On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 3:24 PM <fo...@dnmx.org> wrote:
> I'd love if we could use the GPU directly like pixel changes, etc, without
> all
> the 100 fancy APIs, managers, etc.

I ran across this and it might be of interest.
https://github.com/uobikiemukot/yafblib
It lists the BSD console as an option.

I definitely like the BSD systems. If they had better device driver
support for all my peripherals, I'd be using a BSD system.

As to using the GPU directly for graphics, OpenGL and Vulkan can do
that. However, they require a shading language. So, you need another
programming language involved. You couldn't just write your program
in C. The shader languages are supposed to be C like. Haven't
experimented with them yet, but I would have preferred to stick with
one language for development. SDL 3.x is going to include its own
shader language. Haven't decided whether I'm going to upgrade the SDL
programs I use to work with it, leave them as SDL 1.x and 2.x or try
to find another graphics library to work with.

I keep searching for useful C GUI libraries and graphics libraries
(possibly something besides SDL). It's surprising how few there are
that I would consider good solutions.

> Will check out this stuff in future, if my eyes get better

Hoping your eyes get better soon.

[fo...@dnmx.org]

> On Mon, Jul 10, 2023 at 3:24 PM <fo...@dnmx.org> wrote:
> > I'd love if we could use the GPU directly like pixel changes, etc,
without
> > all
> > the 100 fancy APIs, managers, etc.
>
> I ran across this and it might be of interest.
> https://github.com/uobikiemukot/yafblib
> It lists the BSD console as an option.

WHOAH! that looks fucking awesome! Like does it work without YAFT itself???
If so, this is super-suckless for something so useful!

> I definitely like the BSD systems. If they had better device driver
> support for all my peripherals, I'd be using a BSD system.

I feel you.. I wouldn't even touch FreeBSD (except MAYBE for gaming) if
OpenBSD
had perfect support I mean peripherals weren't evil, not OpenBSD fault
most of
the time.

> As to using the GPU directly for graphics, OpenGL and Vulkan can do
> that.

I don't believe you!
Seriously? I had a great feeling about Vulkan because a few years ago when I
took a look at it, it seemed be program-able in C-style C++ or something like
that.
That'd be very VERY neat!
And sinve Vulkan is open-source, one couldjust steal their code for direct
access and scrap the rest of Vulkan for something suckless :P

> However, they require a shading language. So, you need another
> programming language involved. You couldn't just write your program
> in C. The shader languages are supposed to be C like.

If it's alike C, then fine.

> > Will check out this stuff in future, if my eyes get better
>
> Hoping your eyes get better soon.

Well.. it has only been a year since I last felt the spirit of god-creation,
that is programming..... I am saddened beyond belief.. but I have hope.. that
one day I'll fulfill my destiny and accomplish like 100 dreams and ideas I've
come up with in that time..
It is amazing what a mind can become when lacking what it's craving most
for..
Like I even started writing what I hate about systems, so-to make the perfect
one for me and others, with cheap AF hardware that once can DIY, of course.
Trust me when I say that roof over my head is blown-away from the amount of
rich motivation, ideas and deducements I've had.

I wish, I hope.. I research.. no one will help me but me, sadly.

[fo...@dnmx.org]

1s of all I'd like to say I'm sorry because of the e-mail formatting that
seems
to happen.. someone did tell me clients don't like that, but I do not
unfortunately have health to figure this out, I will remember this,
though, for
the future.
(Talking about my last e-mail, I think)

> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 3:02 PM <fo...@dnmx.org> wrote:
> > Like I even started writing what I hate about systems, so-to make the
perfect
> > one for me and others, with cheap AF hardware that once can DIY, of
course.
> > Trust me when I say that roof over my head is blown-away from the
amount of
> > rich motivation, ideas and deducements I've had.
> >
> > I wish, I hope.. I research.. no one will help me but me, sadly.
>

> I'd be very interested to hear what you've come up with regarding a
> perfect system. I keep wanting to put together a custom distribution
> spin-off and use only software that's easy to build from source.
> Haven't had much luck with it. I keep looking for programs and
> libraries to use so I can at least build some of the programs I work
> with from source. I also keep looking at lightweight Linux
> distributions to see if they have any similar goals and need
> volunteers. No luck so far. I do find some interesting applications
> looking at minimal Linux distributions though. I also like checking
> into the BSD alternatives to common GNU tools and libraries.

I'm not talking about a distribution, because in my opinion, even OpenBSD is
foolish with some of it's approaches to security ;) or it's too much work now
when the OS is complete-ish.. like more-less fundemental changes, not Unix
compatible, better than Unix ever was or will be, but I'd of course have
utilities like sed grep tail head etc.
Basically every OS up until now would be a lesson.. big time from OpenBSD.
Oh, and it'd be suckless, although not sure about the patching approach,
because with that, on a bigger scale come security/reliability concerns,
but I
think I could get away with that by leaving the patchers aka hackers
responsible, and perhaps there could be forks who's creators like just
applied
specific patches that work together with each other well and/or
code/philosophy
standard if you want security and/or reliability :)

Also would take some inspirations from TempleOS.
And would not be licensed because fuck governments and their shit rules,
in my
world, intellectual fucking property are just 2 words without meaning,
they do
not exist.
I predicted that licensing code could be automated with an algorith aka A.I.,
and like less than 1 year later exactly that happened.
All IP (patents,licensing,trademark) is utter and absolute impossibly mad
dog-shit.. I am disappointed in humanity as a whole for allowing it and even
conforming to it ("oh, you want a license? faaayn, here you go a CC0", NO
MORE OF THAT BULLSHIT!!)

But 1st I have to optimize how my brain works in order to master memory
management and efficiency.
Also working on improving deduction skills, which can partially be
achieved by
eating certain foods that contain DHA/EPA omega3 acids found in for example
wallnuts, your brain needs that.
Yes, I'm that hardcore/extreme, in fact that's just the beginning.
But we'll see, I might just be a fart in the wind.. I fucking hate my current
state of pathetic nothingness.

[Hiltjo Posthuma]

You are now banned from this list.

Please follow mail equitte and normal(tm) human behaviour.

--
Kind regards,
Hiltjo