[Wikimediauk-l] [GLAM] Soldiers' letters
Brian McNeil
Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
working on a WW-I related GLAM project.
The Archives have an extensive collection of letters that soldiers wrote
to be delivered to family members in the event they were killed. Due to
the accessibility requirements imposed on any body like the archives,
there is a need to transcribe such documents before they can make them
widely available.
Each letter generally has associated personal effects, such as tickets
to the last theatre show someone saw before going to the front. So, they
make for a beautiful piece of very personal history. With WW-I having
"pals regiments" and the entire young male community from towns and
villages serving - and dying - together, these can readily be focussed
on small geographic areas. Perhaps even readily covering everyone listed
on specific war memorials.
I'm open to any and all ideas on how we could work with the National
Archives of Scotland on this; there's work for those who shun sunlight
in transcribing handwritten letters (to meet their accessibility
requirements), linking letters and effects to specific monuments, and
anything else people might can come up with.
To me, it doesn't seem unreasonable to aim to use Commons, Wikisource,
*and* Wikibooks. A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
it points to a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans
and transcripts. If the relevant items in the National Archives are
properly referenced there should be nothing to stop a local venue such
as a church having an exhibition of the original letters and associated
items like tickets to the theatre the night before someone died. Doing
that in the 2014-2018 window is not going to be difficult.
Since I'm unemployed after Friday this week, I'd like to devote some
time to getting the ball rolling on this. But, I've a hunch this is
something that could be excellent for waking the wider public up to
projects other than Wikipedia, recruiting local history buffs as new
content contributors, and getting cultural institutions to 'think
outside the box' around working with us.
Feel free to throw in suggestions and comments!
Brian McNeil.
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Andy Mabbett
All good stuff, but...
> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
> a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.
I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
Wikisource, and the book.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
Brian McNeil
I've no intention of vigorously arguing one way or the other, but I just
feel it is inappropriate to point to a Wikipedia article that may never
get much beyond stub status when orders of magnitude more content is
elsewhere on WMF projects.
On Tue, 2011-10-25 at 23:07 +0100, Andy Mabbett wrote:
> On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
>
> All good stuff, but...
>
> > A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
> > a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.
>
> I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
> about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
> Wikisource, and the book.
>
Brian McNeil.
--
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.
Andy Mabbett
article wasn't just a stub...
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
WereSpielChequers
WereSpielChequers
Andy Mabbett
followed by the other sections, collapsed, and which can be expanded
individually if and when required by the user.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
John Vandenberg
> On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
>
> All good stuff, but...
>
>> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
>> a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.
>
> I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
> about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
> Wikisource, and the book.
It could be difficult writing Wikipedia articles about these soldiers.
Wikisource has author pages for a lot of people who are not notable,
dont have a bio because writing one is *hard*, etc.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Author_pages_not_linking_to_Wikipedia
Wikisource Author pages provide sufficient space for small
descriptions of the author, and Portal pages can be used to collect
all related authors and works together.
--
John Vandenberg
Andy Mabbett
> On Wed, Oct 26, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Andy Mabbett <an...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
>> I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
>> about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
>> Wikisource, and the book.
>
> It could be difficult writing Wikipedia articles about these soldiers.
I referred to page about each /memorial/, not one for each soldier.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Gordon Joly
> If the QR code is for use on mobile phones then we may not want much
> more than a stub either. What is the maximum article size that would
> work on the typical modern phone?
>
> WereSpielChequers
That is off the top of my head.
Gordo
--
Gordon Joly
gordo...@pobox.com
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Don't Leave Space To The Professionals!
Gordon Joly
OOPS. I was thinking about the size of QR Codes.
Articles? Is there a limit?
Gordo
Chris Keating
Following on from Fae and myself meeting Robin Urquart of the National
Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
working on a WW-I related GLAM project.
Due to
the accessibility requirements imposed on any body like the archives,
there is a need to transcribe such documents before they can make them
widely available.
But, I've a hunch this is
something that could be excellent for waking the wider public up to
projects other than Wikipedia, recruiting local history buffs as new
content contributors, and getting cultural institutions to 'think
outside the box' around working with us.
Andrew West
>
>> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
>> a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.
>
> I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
> about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
> Wikisource, and the book.
I would have thought that very few war memorials would be notable
enough to merit their own article on Wikipedia, and even if an article
did exist, it would not be the place to put all the letters and
ephemera associated with the individual soldiers listed on the
memorial. In my opinion, Brian's suggestion of using Wikibooks to
gather together all the scans, transcripts and other relevent
information in a single place, and linking to it from a QR code is
definitely the best solution.
I think that it is dubious whether a QRpedia code is warranted in this
case, although potentially a Gaelic Wikibooks project (does not
currently exist) could mirror the contents of the English Wikibooks;
and for a similar project about Welsh soldiers there is both an
English and a Welsh Wikibooks project that could both host the
information.
Andrew
[[User:BabelStone]]
Richard Symonds
Richard Symonds
Fae
> Wikisource as a transcription interface.
> Chris
The best GLAM example of using Wikisource so far is Dominic's work
with NARA in the USA - see
<http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:WikiProject_NARA/Completed>.
I used the example of
<http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Objections_to_Woman_Suffrage_Answered>
at the all staff presentation at the British Library as an example
where a formal archive's catalogue links directly back to Wikisource
as an 'official' transcription.
I am hoping that NAS can use a similar approach.
Cheers,
Fae
Andy Mabbett
* Number of characters encoded
* Amount of error correction
* Expected distance from the user's device
The first two of those determine the number of squares making up the
code, the latter the size of those squares
On 26 October 2011 12:13, Gordon Joly <gordo...@pobox.com> wrote:
> OOPS. I was thinking about the size of QR Codes.
>
> Articles? Is there a limit?
>
> Gordo
> On 26/10/2011 12:11, Gordon Joly wrote:
>> On 26/10/2011 11:10, WereSpielChequers wrote:
>>> If the QR code is for use on mobile phones then we may not want much
>>> more than a stub either. What is the maximum article size that would
>>> work on the typical modern phone?
>>>
>>> WereSpielChequers
>> My experience is 1 cm at a distance of 10 cm.
>>
>> That is off the top of my head.
>>
>> Gordo
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Andy Mabbett
> On 25 October 2011 23:07, Andy Mabbett <an...@pigsonthewing.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial, it points to
>>> a Wikibook collecting all the soldiers' letters, with scans and transcripts.
>>
>> I'd rather the QR code point (via QRpedia) to a Wikipedia article
>> about the memorial, and have that point to relevant pages on commons/
>> Wikisource, and the book.
>
> I would have thought that very few war memorials would be notable
> enough to merit their own article on Wikipedia,
I think many are sufficiently notable; especially if we are able to
source information about the people they commemorate.
> and even if an article
> did exist, it would not be the place to put all the letters and
> ephemera associated with the individual soldiers listed on the
> memorial.
That's not what I'm suggesting; the Wikipedia article should link to
the relevant commons/wiki-source pages/ categories (and a category per
memorial would be appropriate in such cases)
>In my opinion, Brian's suggestion of using Wikibooks to
> gather together all the scans, transcripts and other relevent
> information in a single place, and linking to it from a QR code is
> definitely the best solution.
I'm not sure that presenting a mobile device users, especially one
with a casual interest, with a link to a Wikibook is the best
approach.
> I think that it is dubious whether a QRpedia code is warranted in this
> case, although potentially a Gaelic Wikibooks project (does not
> currently exist) could mirror the contents of the English Wikibooks;
> and for a similar project about Welsh soldiers there is both an
> English and a Welsh Wikibooks project that could both host the
> information.
You'd loose the language-detection facility offered by QRpedia.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Tom Morris
> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
Is that such a good idea?
I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.
--
Tom Morris
<http://tommorris.org/>
Andy Mabbett
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
>> A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
>
> Is that such a good idea?
>
> I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
> memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.
The suggestion was "at" not "on" - it should be possible to place a QR
Code on nearby information point, for example, not on the memorial
itself.
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Brian McNeil
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 22:55, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
> > A QR code could be placed at a relevant war memorial,
>
> Is that such a good idea?
>
> I like QR codes as much as the next person, but sticking them on war
> memorials may probing the limits of taste in Wikimedia outreach.
Believe it or not, that's why I was careful to say *at*, as-opposed to
*on*. I know I've a reputation for being crass, insensitive, and
bloody-minded; but, "vandalising" war memorials is something I'd not
contemplate. :P
I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
documents.
Even just doing everyone listed on a single monument will be notable
enough to garner press coverage. From that, it will - hopefully - be
possible to encourage other non-wiki people to get involved and carry
out the same work for their local memorials.
I've no idea how far this should be pushed, or how far it might go if it
gains traction. The fallen of WW-I were not repatriated; I lived in
Flanders for over ten years, I've seen the rows, and rows of white
crosses in war cemeteries over there. I know a very large number of
people visit these sites every year. If anyone can suggest a way to
tastefully cross-link memorials in the UK listing those who died with
the actual graves, that would seem the next logical step here.
Brian McNeil.
--
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.
iain.ma...@wikinewsie.org
Andrew West
>
> I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
> memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
> get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
> Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
> documents.
To my mind, "List of war memorials in Scotland" etc. would be the best
way to proceed wrt Wikipedia, with each entry linking to another
wikimedia project or projects for whatever detailed information is
available such as scans, transcriptions and lists of names. There is
quite a nice list-article for Canadian war memorials at
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_war_memorials>.
Andrew
Brian McNeil
> As I've remarked before - every so often I decide to unsubscribe from
> this list, then something else interesting comes up.
You were sane enough to unsubscribe from <s>troll-l</s>foundation-l,
though? Right?
> Some of these memorials don't even have information notices (the one
> in the village I grew up in, for instance). Where there is sufficient
> information for one, might the WMF/projects/WMUK/whoever collaborate
> with local authorities - supplying info, images etc for an information
> board, which could in turn point people in the direction of further
> resources?
> (Disclaimer: I haven't thought that through. I'm thinking aloud.)
You're probably thinking along similar lines to myself. These memorials
were constructed in the 1918-1925 period, with funds raised locally. The
material that could build a Wikipedia article is likely buried in parish
newsletters, and long-ceased-publication local newspapers.
The monument is less important, in terms of the data we have an
opportunity to access, than the people it commemorates. Wikipedia is
very much "cold, hard facts", this is very, very personal. Commons,
Wikisource, and possibly Wikibooks - to me - seem the appropriate
projects to work on with this material.
If the entire 'roll call' from a monument is processed, then the
supplementary items - such as theatre tickets, or restaurant receipts -
from someone's last night before going to the front can be put on
display locally to the monument (eg, in a local library).
The rationale behind doing this through WMF projects is to have the
information available globally. Right now, someone in Australia may well
know that their great-grandmother emigrated after her husband was killed
in WW-I. Being able to see the letter he wrote the night before he died,
and a list of the personal effects handed to the widow, is what I see
making this a project of value.
WW-I has oftentimes been billed as "The War to end all Wars"; the more
personal you make that, the better. Battles A, B, and C with X, Y, and Z
killed is cold statistics; changing those who died from statistics into
'real people' just seems the right thing to do. Who knows? Buried in
amongst the thousands of last letters may be a few people as articulate
as Owen or Sassoon.
Brian McNeil
> On 26 October 2011 22:37, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad to see others chime in regarding the potential for certain
> > memorials being non-notable, or having insufficient reliable sources to
> > get beyond stub status. The point here is not to drive traffic to
> > Wikipedia, but to allow people to quickly access very personal
> > documents.
>
> To my mind, "List of war memorials in Scotland" etc. would be the best
> way to proceed wrt Wikipedia, with each entry linking to another
> wikimedia project or projects for whatever detailed information is
> available such as scans, transcriptions and lists of names. There is
> quite a nice list-article for Canadian war memorials at
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_war_memorials>.
I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to in
any way link to Wikipedia?
Just because we've a pet 800lb gorilla is no reason to point people at
it repeatedly.
List of monuments->Monument Foo->Individual should be the obscure route
to content. Link/Reference (eg QR code)->List of individuals->Content
related to an individual can easily be done without ever touching
Wikipedia.
For many GLAM partners, Wikipedia is not going to be the 'ideal' first
port of call. So, why try and make it such?
Brian McNeil.
--
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Brian_McNeil - Accredited Reporter.
Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news.
Andy Mabbett
> I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to in
> any way link to Wikipedia?
[else where you also said "The point here is not to drive traffic to
Wikipedia"]
I'm not concerned with "driving traffic to Wikipedia" - it seems to be
doing OK, in that regard, without our help.
I think a Wikipedia page is the most user-friendly "front end" to the
rest of the data, and is also likely to satisfy the curiosity of a
more casual reader, who wants to know what the memorial is (name,
architect, date of construction, etc.), without going further into the
personal details of those memorialised, which will nonetheless be thus
made available to those who do wish to see it.
QRpedia and interwiki links mean we can also serve basic information
to people who cannot read English (or Scots/ Welsh).
> For many GLAM partners, Wikipedia is not going to be the 'ideal' first
> port of call.
{{CN}} ;-)
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Fae
worthy of a Wikipedia article. Due to how difficult it is to source
the material, I would encourage any group or individual to consider
extending (or more likely creating) the article for the local town or
village that created the monument, though some monuments are found at
cross-roads or at scenic positions (I'm thinking of the large memorial
I stopped to photograph in North Uist which only has sheep as
neighbours but is still the location for a well attended annual
memorial ceremony and is the opportunity to remember those more
recently killed in war action).
The cross-links to information about regiments, battles and individual
acts of bravery that were recognized with notable medals all add value
to Wikipedia and though the information may start with a photo on
Wikimedia Commons or a single document on Wikisource, I would strongly
encourage volunteers to help expand the quality of Wikipedia's
coverage of these areas of local interest. It strikes me as the sort
of improvement that local schools might be excellent at helping with.
Cheers,
Fae
Chris Keating
I might upset a few people here, but,... Why does this even have to inany way link to Wikipedia?
Just because we've a pet 800lb gorilla is no reason to point people at
it repeatedly.
Andy Mabbett
This may be relevant:
http://m.spiegel.de/international/europe/a-794103.html
' WWI Grave Find Tells Story Germans Want To Forget'
Tom Morris
Andy Mabbett
> Following on from Fae and myself meeting Robin Urquart of the National
> Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
> working on a WW-I related GLAM project.
This is also pertinent:
<http://www.inmemoriam2014.org>
--
Andy Mabbett
@pigsonthewing
http://pigsonthewing.org.uk
_______________________________________________
Andy Mabbett
> On 25 October 2011 22:55, Brian McNeil <brian....@wikinewsie.org> wrote:
>
>> Following on from Fae and myself meeting Robin Urquart of the National
>> Archives of Scotland, I'm looking for people who may be interested in
>> working on a WW-I related GLAM project.
>
> This is also pertinent:
>
> <http://www.inmemoriam2014.org>
As is:
The UK National Inventory of War Memorials, based at the Imperial War
Museum …creating a comprehensive archive of all war memorials in the
United Kingdom. They have records for over 60,000 of the estimated
100,000 war memorials in the UK but many remain to be recorded.
<http://www.ukniwm.org.uk/>
Roger Bamkin
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John Vandenberg
> On a more mundane point we have been asked to supply Wikisource via QRpedia
mundane!?! .. very cool! ;-)
--
John Vandenberg