Help. Restarting when you didn't shut it down?

[Sillyoldmare]

So, I have a couple of things going on... and I'm researching all the old topics here, as it seems to be the best resource I can find on the net at the moment.  (I've watched every YouTube I can find... )  

I was madly infatuated with my new stove in my new 14x40 house... moved in a week ago today and fired her up for the first time five days ago.   PERFECT.  Just exactly what I hoped... I had a professional install it.  It *is* his first wiseway, but he's been installing wood, pellet & gas stoves for 4 decades or more.   Chimney goes straight up.  Adapted from the stove to a 6" stovepipe chimney.  (I don't know *specifics* beyond that.   We are waiting for the fresh air intake, but I crack a window, and there is plenty of space behind stove, so I don't *think* it's that.

I'm having the same issue I see posted here, (without any real answers, a couple of things to try...) that it starts great, then goes down to <400 degrees after a few hours.   I have tried closing the damper, cleaning out the ashes and secondary burn chamber, and taking the end off the primary burn chamber.  The only thing that helps for a few minutes and maybe a hundred degrees is taking the end off the primary burn chamber.  I don't really want to RUN it like that.  

So what I've ended up doing twice is then shutting down the pellet feed and letting it burn out.  Starting all over in the morning/evening.  Fires up to full temp when I do that.  

But, this last night, it burned out with pellets still coming down.  

I could not get it restarted.  Spent all of the propane in the torch, and well over 1/2 hour.  Just. Could. Not. get her going.  Got plenty of draft going--got the temp up over 200 degrees on the thermometer!  But was never able to get her restarted. 

Obviously I know I have to remove the pellets now that are in there.  Is there any secret or better way to do this?   I can't find a single article or video on it.  My hands don't really fit in that little square to pull them out... :-/     What am I missing? 

I'm really frustrated.  I should be able to get softwood pellets for the season next year, but I'm really not convinced that is the issue, as there is minimal ash and buildup.  There's something else going on.  

If she goes out like this, is there ANY way to restart? Or do you have to pull all the pellets after shutting off the chute... and how do you do that? 

Thanks.  Sad and disillusioned.  (and a little cold.) 

[Sillyoldmare]

[Monique Robert]

I never did take the pellets out. I just put the torch directly on the cold pellets in the basket. It always starts that way with no problem whatsoever. 

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[Bill Garrison]

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Sillyoldmare <sillyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> So, I have a couple of things going on... and I'm researching all the old topics here, as it seems to be the best resource I can find on the net at the moment. (I've watched every YouTube I can find... )
>
> I was madly infatuated with my new stove in my new 14x40 house... moved in a week ago today and fired her up for the first time five days ago. PERFECT. Just exactly what I hoped... I had a professional install it. It *is* his first wiseway, but he's been installing wood, pellet & gas stoves for 4 decades or more. Chimney goes straight up. Adapted from the stove to a 6" stovepipe chimney. (I don't know *specifics* beyond that. We are waiting for the fresh air intake, but I crack a window, and there is plenty of space behind stove, so I don't *think* it's that.

I'm betting on the 6" pipe as the culprit. I read somewhere, maybe on this group, that pushing hot air through a 6" pipe is a lot of work for this stove to manage. At least for our setup, replacing the 6" pipe with 3" pipe helped make things work.

> I'm having the same issue I see posted here, (without any real answers, a couple of things to try...) that it starts great, then goes down to <400 degrees after a few hours. I have tried closing the damper, cleaning out the ashes and secondary burn chamber, and taking the end off the primary burn chamber. The only thing that helps for a few minutes and maybe a hundred degrees is taking the end off the primary burn chamber. I don't really want to RUN it like that.

Yep. That's happened for us.

> So what I've ended up doing twice is then shutting down the pellet feed and letting it burn out. Starting all over in the morning/evening. Fires up to full temp when I do that.

Yep.

> But, this last night, it burned out with pellets still coming down.
>
> I could not get it restarted. Spent all of the propane in the torch, and well over 1/2 hour. Just. Could. Not. get her going. Got plenty of draft going--got the temp up over 200 degrees on the thermometer! But was never able to get her restarted.

That's weird and concerning. We've not experienced that yet. Ours has restarted everytime and pretty consistently. Once the pipe temp gets to 200F, I lift the pellet chute door, and the temp rises quickly to 400F, then eventually settles in around 500-550 in maybe 20 minutes.

> Obviously I know I have to remove the pellets now that are in there. Is there any secret or better way to do this? I can't find a single article or video on it. My hands don't really fit in that little square to pull them out... :-/ What am I missing?

I'd leave the pellets in there. I have once done a cold restart with pellets still in the chute and the burn basket. I just directed the torch flame below the burn basket as much as possible until the pipe temp got up to 200, then flamed the pellets in the basket for a bit and it took right off. I did time-travel backward three days into the past, but a cold-restart of the engines *is* possible (Scotty was initially skeptical, and Spock thought maybe...)

> I'm really frustrated. I should be able to get softwood pellets for the season next year, but I'm really not convinced that is the issue, as there is minimal ash and buildup. There's something else going on.

I bet it's more likely a draft issue than a problem with the pellets. Although, you might have plug up in the burn basket, or just above it, that could be blocking the pellets from feeding well. My wife has seen that happen in our stove, and poking the burn basket to stir up the pellets seems to help.

> If she goes out like this, is there ANY way to restart? Or do you have to pull all the pellets after shutting off the chute... and how do you do that?

You can clear the chute by dragging the primary burn tube-thingy out of the stove, letting the pellets spill down to the ash bucket chamber (pull the secondary tray and the ash bucket out first). Then you can reclaim some of those slightly-dirty-but-mostly-clean pellets and throw them back in the hopper.

But I have restarted my stove with pellets in the basket. I'm confident about my draft, though. I'm pretty sure (92%) that I'm not going to get any blowback from my chimney, and that my torch will push enough hot air through the pipes to readily start the draft.

> Thanks. Sad and disillusioned. (and a little cold.)

That sucks. Sorry. Welcome to the world of Wiseway stove ownership, I guess?

[sillyoldmare]

:)  Thanks for at least making me smile.  Timetravel and Trek references always appreciated.   Will try some things you mentioned.  Might have to go to the smaller chimney.  I'm not sure the outside is 6"  :-o  I know the installer read the book, and put on an adapter... *exterior* measurement is 6".  Aren't they double walled?  Now *I'm* just blowing smoke. 

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[Bill Garrison]

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 3:08 PM, sillyoldmare <sillyo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> :) Thanks for at least making me smile. Timetravel and Trek references always appreciated. Will try some things you mentioned. Might have to go to the smaller chimney. I'm not sure the outside is 6" :-o I know the installer read the book, and put on an adapter... *exterior* measurement is 6". Aren't they double walled? Now *I'm* just blowing smoke.

All of my flue pipe from the stove to the wall is singled-walled. That's the setup I had with my old stove. I think if you're running new pipe through ceilings and walls, double-walled is what they use. I just hook up to the chimney pipe that comes out of my wall. Since I was connecting to an already existing "Class A" 6" chimney system (I don't know what that actually means), I followed the manual's advice and used singled-wall pipe. The manual recommended 4", 5", or 6" pipe from the stove, and I did try 4" pipe, but with a 90 degree angle in the run. Didn't seem to help, vs the 6" flue pipe I had initially used. Both sucked.

For my setup, it might have been the 90 degree angle that was causing just enough draft reduction to slow down the whole system. I'm not sure. I changed all the variables at the same time, and landed on using 3" pipe with no 90 degree angles. I don't have any idea what actually made the difference. Could have been the combination of the two.

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[Monique Robert]

NEVER use a 90 degree angle: They always choke the draft. If you have to have angles, make them 45 degrees. I have a 3” (inside) double walled (insulated) pipe. That is the way to go. I don’t even have a draft pipe coming from outside to feed the basket air. You won’t need it. 

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[its_rosegold]

I couldn’t agree more absolutely no 90 angle. I told my installer to do 45 & he installed 90 anyway & never went back up past the roof life. I tried using a few times but it never was at its peak. The last time I used it was very windy out & all the exhaust just blew back in, my whole house was covered in smoke. I had to take out the burn basket while it was still burning and the ash tray too since everything was just getting blown back in there was active flames in both baskets. Pretty scary so def won’t use until I get it installed properly. As for pellets though I like the soft the store ran out & ended up having to buy hard. The couple times I had a successful run with Lignetics. I got it at Ace & I’m almost certain they have it at TrueValue. The stove hovered at 500 throughout the burn but I did have to stoke the pellets here & there.