Can't seem to access the team on teamcowboy....
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Rogan Creswick
Oct 17, 2008, 8:15:11 PM10/17/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, Jocelyn Lin
Jocelyn and I don't seem to have access to the teamcowboy page for
winner buys beer anymore -- has anyone else had problems, or know what
might be going on?
winner buys beer anymore -- has anyone else had problems, or know what
might be going on?
Thanks!
Rogan
Rogan Creswick
Oct 18, 2008, 4:14:57 PM10/18/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, Jocelyn Lin
Hey Beer,
Joce and I were kicked off the team for being 'undedicated' -- I hope
the rest of your season(s) go well! I'm going to swing by the game
today to pickup our refunds for the rest of the season.
--Rogan
Valerie Label
Oct 18, 2008, 5:02:19 PM10/18/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com
Luke Ivey
Oct 21, 2008, 11:58:59 PM10/21/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, Jocelyn Lin
wow. Rogan started Winner Buys Beer. Sorry to hear that Rogan. I wish I had the ability to retract the name Jess and I gave the team. that team must have really gone down hill...it used to be a super fun team to play on, not the best team around but really fun.
Go ahead and take me off the email list.
good luck!
Go ahead and take me off the email list.
good luck!
Jason Fuehrer
Oct 22, 2008, 10:16:43 AM10/22/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, Jocelyn Lin
Luke,
No, actually the team did not go down hill. Rogan alienated himself from the team by having a horrible attitude and a complete unwillingness to cooperate with anyone else on the field. The team is still "super fun," and (now) has a very high level of morale, and a significantly higher level of skill. If you would like more details on why Rogan QUIT the team, please privately ask someone who is on the team, rather than sniveling in a broadcast email. As far as naming the team goes, if you would like to submit a formal request to Michael Anthony, I'm sure we will happily consider relenquishing the title if you plan on using it for your own squad.
Jason
No, actually the team did not go down hill. Rogan alienated himself from the team by having a horrible attitude and a complete unwillingness to cooperate with anyone else on the field. The team is still "super fun," and (now) has a very high level of morale, and a significantly higher level of skill. If you would like more details on why Rogan QUIT the team, please privately ask someone who is on the team, rather than sniveling in a broadcast email. As far as naming the team goes, if you would like to submit a formal request to Michael Anthony, I'm sure we will happily consider relenquishing the title if you plan on using it for your own squad.
Jason
Luke Ivey
Oct 22, 2008, 3:29:56 PM10/22/08
to Jocelyn Lin, Jason Fuehrer, winner-b...@googlegroups.com
Well Jason, I have never met you, but I can tell by your email that you are an asshole. Rogan wasn't the best soccer player on the field, but he was damn good manager. He basically started the team and invested a ton of energy keeping it going and recruiting people, as Jocelyn said. Further, if I had been on the team while you were writing up your pathetic "critiques" of the games I would have told you to shove it up your ass. IF you are that good of a soccer player then why are you playing on a co-rec team?
On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Jocelyn Lin <jooj...@gmail.com> wrote:
Jason,
Your email is completely uncalled for, not to mention hypocritical. If you want to criticize someone for broadcasting their opinion, kindly consider this email as well as others you've sent in the past. I imagine you're going to counter my opinion as biased, but your assessment of Rogan's attitude is BS. Yes Rogan has criticized certain behaviors of the team this season, but he does not have a 'horrible' attitude, nor has he come anywhere near being uncooperative towards everyone else on the field. He managed the team successfully for many seasons, recruiting many of you who are on the team now, bringing coffee for early games, playing keep when needed, and supplying cold packs and ibuprofen for injuries. Just because he hasn't automatically embraced every recent change doesn't mean he's trying to sabotage the team. As all team members should be allowed to, he points out issues when he feels they're important. If critiquing any of the managements' decisions means that a person has "alienated" himself or herself from the team, that says more about the management (or perhaps in this case pseudo-management) than anything else.
Good for you if you feel the removal of Rogan and me has had a positive impact on the team. (And yes, I believe we were effectively kicked off because we were removed from the roster without any consultation.) Frankly, you don't have the best point of comparison on how the team has changed because you joined only within the last 2 seasons. I won't deny the team is winning more, but your opinion that the team is super fun is just that--your opinion. Others probably share your opinion, and it's fine that the team is working out well for those people. Personally, I have not had fun playing on Beer for some time. It's unfortunate, because there are many individual players I enjoy seeing and playing with, but overall I feel the games have become more stressful and less friendly.
Luke, I for one appreciate you standing up for Rogan. Goodness knows I should've done the same, and a lot earlier.
Jocelyn
![[ floweras@hotmail.com ]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjX8dfftEmcz5PrCkd8KAqT82iLg3wUHlXcNhswaGtIot_XG_w=s40-c)
[ floweras@hotmail.com ]
Oct 23, 2008, 12:06:20 AM10/23/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, jooj...@gmail.com, midgar...@gmail.com
I miss going out as a team after a game to grab a drink at a nearby pub. These get-togethers happened regularly and were open to everyone on the team. I credit Rogan for letting us know that we were all welcome.
Hana
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:29:56 -0700
From: luke...@gmail.com
To: jooj...@gmail.com
Hana
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 12:29:56 -0700
From: luke...@gmail.com
To: jooj...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: Can't seem to access the team on teamcowboy....
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Michael Anthony
Oct 23, 2008, 1:22:57 PM10/23/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com, jooj...@gmail.com, midgar...@gmail.com
Let's set things straight, right here, right now! I wanted to be quiet and let things be, but now I am seeing too many people getting involved over things that really have gotten blown out of proportion.
Facts: We have been a team for over two years now and things have gotten sticky, especially over emails. The truth is we all have differing personalities and have either made it work or moved on. There has been a revolving door of players due to injuries, attitudes or whatever other reasons over the past two years. The truth is that people have been whining since the team started for one reason or another, it has just gotten worse since early summer. Some people are always going to not be happy with the state of things. When I started to "pseudo-manage" this team, I decided to listen to the majority of what the team wanted. In doing so, it was not popluar with certain players, I listened to them and realized they were right as well about certain issues but not all things. When I see this calling out and name calling, especially from people not participating and only getting one side of the whole picture, its time to step in and end it.
As I stated before in an email as well is in person: "you can't please everyone". And those of you who don't like me or my personality or attitude agreed with me in person and stated that. I will be the first to say that I am the first person to admit guilt on being a bit competitive, smart-alecky, and sometimes frustrated at other players teamwork. That being said, we all have been there. Character is how to react, apologize, and move on.
Sometimes things just don't work out, sometimes you can't apologize enough to people who are not gracious enough to accept it and realize their own shortcomings. Sometimes we get an overdeveloped sense of justice and think our view is the only right one. Thats when things got worse.
I know that these awful emails are intended to not only raise eyebrows, but create division. If that is your goal, look inside and really dig deep about your character. (yes, this sounds ridiculous, but do it).
Another fact: No one has kicked anyone off the team! This is directed straight at you Rogan and Jocelyn. I have been in and out of town and when I got that first email, I was as puzzled as you and did not have the time (like I do now) to correct it. To set it straight, I talked to Val, who has tried to correct this and make it right. Rogan, you went public on email to get sympathy and it backfired. The reason she pulled the names was because you had listed yourself as not playing for the rest of the season. Why would you do that? You have your reasons I guess. Actually I know that answer.... you have made statements that you were done to other players, you said you weren't interested in the next season either, even though it was offered to you directly by me!
What many people don't see in these emails are the conversations in person, on the phone or private emails I had with you regarding all these issues, starting over three to four months ago. It seems that when I told you what others felt about problems that revolved around you, that you did not care or simply dismissed them. So when you get mad and have others back you up in public emails, don't pick parts and pieces of conversations that suit your needs. We don't need to do a bunch of lawyering to gain sympathy on either side.
Luke, you can have your team name back. You deserve it and by all rights, please keep it, we will come up with another. But please stay out of this, you are getting pieces and parts of this and really seem to be manipulating a situation that has nothing to do with you. I am going to keep this soft, because you know I know more than meets the eye with you. And you are right, Jason is very competitive and "critique-like". But you don't know him, he is a good guy, that just wants to play and keep the team morale together. So let's just end all of this and go away with a smile and know we are all going to try to be better people that have differences.
Jocelyn, Im sorry that you are caught in the middle of this, it is completely unfair to you and you didn't deserve to be upset by this. regardless of where your feelings and standings are, I wouldn't blame you for sticking by your guy. I hope this email truly finds you to believe that no one has ill will towards you regardless of your last email. Just know that you also were not privy to first-hand conversations about other issues and previous players we all as a team had issues with. It sucks to even have to send this email out to any one, but it needs to end here.
Again, I am holding back because I know there has been alot of manipulation, but its not worth fighting over anymore. Let's all be gracious and just stop all this nonsense right now. No one will win, no one will feel vindicated, no one will look like the good or bad guy. Just end it.....
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS. JUST END THIS HERE. IF WE MEET AGAIN, BE PLEASANT. IT'S OVER.......
From: flow...@hotmail.com
To: winner-b...@googlegroups.com; jooj...@gmail.com
CC: midgar...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Can't seem to access the team on teamcowboy....
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:06:20 -0700
Facts: We have been a team for over two years now and things have gotten sticky, especially over emails. The truth is we all have differing personalities and have either made it work or moved on. There has been a revolving door of players due to injuries, attitudes or whatever other reasons over the past two years. The truth is that people have been whining since the team started for one reason or another, it has just gotten worse since early summer. Some people are always going to not be happy with the state of things. When I started to "pseudo-manage" this team, I decided to listen to the majority of what the team wanted. In doing so, it was not popluar with certain players, I listened to them and realized they were right as well about certain issues but not all things. When I see this calling out and name calling, especially from people not participating and only getting one side of the whole picture, its time to step in and end it.
As I stated before in an email as well is in person: "you can't please everyone". And those of you who don't like me or my personality or attitude agreed with me in person and stated that. I will be the first to say that I am the first person to admit guilt on being a bit competitive, smart-alecky, and sometimes frustrated at other players teamwork. That being said, we all have been there. Character is how to react, apologize, and move on.
Sometimes things just don't work out, sometimes you can't apologize enough to people who are not gracious enough to accept it and realize their own shortcomings. Sometimes we get an overdeveloped sense of justice and think our view is the only right one. Thats when things got worse.
I know that these awful emails are intended to not only raise eyebrows, but create division. If that is your goal, look inside and really dig deep about your character. (yes, this sounds ridiculous, but do it).
Another fact: No one has kicked anyone off the team! This is directed straight at you Rogan and Jocelyn. I have been in and out of town and when I got that first email, I was as puzzled as you and did not have the time (like I do now) to correct it. To set it straight, I talked to Val, who has tried to correct this and make it right. Rogan, you went public on email to get sympathy and it backfired. The reason she pulled the names was because you had listed yourself as not playing for the rest of the season. Why would you do that? You have your reasons I guess. Actually I know that answer.... you have made statements that you were done to other players, you said you weren't interested in the next season either, even though it was offered to you directly by me!
What many people don't see in these emails are the conversations in person, on the phone or private emails I had with you regarding all these issues, starting over three to four months ago. It seems that when I told you what others felt about problems that revolved around you, that you did not care or simply dismissed them. So when you get mad and have others back you up in public emails, don't pick parts and pieces of conversations that suit your needs. We don't need to do a bunch of lawyering to gain sympathy on either side.
Luke, you can have your team name back. You deserve it and by all rights, please keep it, we will come up with another. But please stay out of this, you are getting pieces and parts of this and really seem to be manipulating a situation that has nothing to do with you. I am going to keep this soft, because you know I know more than meets the eye with you. And you are right, Jason is very competitive and "critique-like". But you don't know him, he is a good guy, that just wants to play and keep the team morale together. So let's just end all of this and go away with a smile and know we are all going to try to be better people that have differences.
Jocelyn, Im sorry that you are caught in the middle of this, it is completely unfair to you and you didn't deserve to be upset by this. regardless of where your feelings and standings are, I wouldn't blame you for sticking by your guy. I hope this email truly finds you to believe that no one has ill will towards you regardless of your last email. Just know that you also were not privy to first-hand conversations about other issues and previous players we all as a team had issues with. It sucks to even have to send this email out to any one, but it needs to end here.
Again, I am holding back because I know there has been alot of manipulation, but its not worth fighting over anymore. Let's all be gracious and just stop all this nonsense right now. No one will win, no one will feel vindicated, no one will look like the good or bad guy. Just end it.....
PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS. JUST END THIS HERE. IF WE MEET AGAIN, BE PLEASANT. IT'S OVER.......
Michael Anthony
From: flow...@hotmail.com
To: winner-b...@googlegroups.com; jooj...@gmail.com
CC: midgar...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Can't seem to access the team on teamcowboy....
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:06:20 -0700
[ floweras@hotmail.com ]
Oct 24, 2008, 12:09:44 AM10/24/08
to winner-b...@googlegroups.com
Michael,
I haven't really cared either way about the ugly discourse going on and was content to ignore it. With that said, I don't have an issue with Rogan either. My point was just that he is not a terrible guy.
About you, I have told Rogan I had been upset with Justin's style of play before, and that you had told me that you had talked to him. I also told Rogan that I was happily surprised to see that your efforts have worked, because Justin has become a team player. I also told Rogan that you have been responsive to me when I've asked questions about the sub situation. Thank you for that. At least from my perspective, there is no issue between you and me.
And, from that perspective, the one thing that I haven't understood is what led to Rogan no longer being on Team Cowboy. After the on-the-field dispute that happened between you and Rogan, I noticed that he had marked himself as a "no" for the rest of the season. Later, however, I saw that he had apparently changed himself to a "maybe" for the rest of the season. I don't know when it actually happened, but last Thursday, I noticed that his name was no longer listed on Team Cowboy. I'm not necessarily asking for an answer, but I've been left confused about how Rogan went from a "maybe" to unlisted. That's my one lingering question from this season's management.
That's all.
Hana
From: neword...@msn.com
I haven't really cared either way about the ugly discourse going on and was content to ignore it. With that said, I don't have an issue with Rogan either. My point was just that he is not a terrible guy.
About you, I have told Rogan I had been upset with Justin's style of play before, and that you had told me that you had talked to him. I also told Rogan that I was happily surprised to see that your efforts have worked, because Justin has become a team player. I also told Rogan that you have been responsive to me when I've asked questions about the sub situation. Thank you for that. At least from my perspective, there is no issue between you and me.
And, from that perspective, the one thing that I haven't understood is what led to Rogan no longer being on Team Cowboy. After the on-the-field dispute that happened between you and Rogan, I noticed that he had marked himself as a "no" for the rest of the season. Later, however, I saw that he had apparently changed himself to a "maybe" for the rest of the season. I don't know when it actually happened, but last Thursday, I noticed that his name was no longer listed on Team Cowboy. I'm not necessarily asking for an answer, but I've been left confused about how Rogan went from a "maybe" to unlisted. That's my one lingering question from this season's management.
That's all.
Hana
From: neword...@msn.com
To: winner-b...@googlegroups.com; jooj...@gmail.com
CC: midgar...@gmail.com
Subject: RE: Can't seem to access the team on teamcowboy....
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:22:57 -0700
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