Chat on March 8th

[wine...@gmail.com]

Just posted to my blog:

It's time to circle the virtual Wine 2.0 wagons for another monthly
online chat relating to Web 2.0 and wine. This month it will be held
this Thursday, March 8th at 7:00 pm EST/4:00 pm PST/12:00 am GMT
(Fri.)/ 11:00 am AEST (Fri.). in the Campfire room generously provided
by the folks at WineQ.

Like last month, we will ask each participant to post their question
for the group in our Google Group sometime before Thursday (preferably
as early in the week as possible so we have time to think about it).
I'll moderate and anyone who didn't get in on the last chat will be
put to the front of the queue with their question. Anyone with an
interest in the intersection of Web 2.0 and wine is welcome but we do
have limited space so please indicate your attendance by posting a
comment here or in our Google Group.

My question will be more of a presentation of the meta-data scheme for
the hReview wine tasting note plug-in I'm writing for Wordpress.
Pretty geeky stuff, but there are others who are more business model
focused so I'm sure there will be some balance to the discussion. And
maybe we can find out what's behind the holding page at the Wine 2.0
site...

--
Tim Elliott
Winecast

[Bill Wilson]

Count me in barring any unforeseen developments. In many ways I feel like a 6th grader sitting in on a college chemistry class, but this is still fascinating stuff.

--
Bill Wilson
wlw.wi...@gmail.com
The Wine for Newbies Podcast
http://www.winefornewbies.net/

[Cellar Rat]

I'm in...
Where are we meeting?
Google chat?

Sorry I missed the last one.. Not sure if there is a set method for
connecting yet.

ab

[wineo...@gmail.com]

I'm a new member of the group and my interests are in the broad area
of helping traditional wine shops to use the concepts and principles
of Web 2.0 in their marketing efforts. The "wine sale" seems to be
the most popular way for these outfits to attract customers; something
has always bothered me about cutting prices and selling based on
price, in general. (Don't get me wrong, as a consumer, I enjoy the
bargin and sale, but as a marketing professional, it bothers me!)

My question for discussion: What "direct to consumer" Web 2.0
practices might be adapted and built upon by retail shops?

I'm also interested in the discussion regarding microformats; I've
only a superficial exposure to the concepts but it seems to me that
the differentiating aspect of the hReview type microformat and the
vinoXML approach lies in the area of syndication: if my interests are
in syndication of wine data I've collected (or want to present), the
vinoXML approach seems more robust. I don't see how the hReview
microformat approach supports syndication but it does promote some
standardization of information which should support comparisons and
analysis.

Look forward to participating in the chat.

Ward Bell
WineOnline

[James Jory]

wineo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I don't see how the hReview
> microformat approach supports syndication but it does promote some
> standardization of information which should support comparisons and
> analysis.
>
>

Since microformats are expressed in (x)html, they actually work quite
nicely when when coupled with RSS. For most content publishers it's
much easier to create an hReview annotated wine review in, say, a blog
post than it is to create a separate blog post and vinoXML
representation of the same review. Once in the blog post, the hReview is
syndicated automatically as part of the blog's RSS feed.

Of course you can create all of your content in vinoXML and use XSL to
render it in HTML but that is beyond the capabilities of most content
publishers.

-James

http://www.scrugy.com

[wineo...@gmail.com]

Thanks, James, for your points. Yes, if you take the hReview
microformat and append it to your blog (along with other information,
the entire package will be accessible to your RSS feed for that blog
-- if you have that function enabled.

I guess I was thinking about "syndication" in a broader, more general
fashion. While I'm a strong fan of RSS and am exploring how
personalized RSS feeds can be implemented in different environments,
I'm thinking here of how tasting notes and reviews can be "syndicated"
or made available for reprint on other sites.

More like this: A winery creates a series of winemaker notes and the
like regarding their releases. They store that information in a
repository in microformat or vinoXML form. My retail client
"subscribes" to their "syndicated" information and renders the
resulting "feed" on their site.

While this *could* be done with blog content (ie, the mashup), I think
there may be other forms of syndication that will be considered and my
hunch is that something like vinoXML will work better than the
microFormat. Time will tell.

Thanks,

Ward Bell

[Philip James]

my question - why is their no standard database for wines that people
actually use (like an isbn numbering system). is there a need for
something like this?

Thank you
Philip

On Mar 6, 2:28 pm, James Jory <j...@scrugy.com> wrote:

[Hugo Sharp]

I'm in too.

[James Jory]

wineo...@gmail.com wrote:
> I guess I was thinking about "syndication" in a broader, more general
> fashion. While I'm a strong fan of RSS and am exploring how
> personalized RSS feeds can be implemented in different environments,
> I'm thinking here of how tasting notes and reviews can be "syndicated"
> or made available for reprint on other sites.
>

I think I'm following you. I was just using a blog and RSS as an example
because I thought it would be familiar to everyone. However, just
creating an HTML page with microformats is in effect syndicating the
information in the page. Without a more machine-friendly representation
of the information in a page, whether it's using microformats, vinoXML
or something else, the true information in the page remains locked away
as just textual content. This is what we have with the web today and
why text search engines such Google and Yahoo are still the best tools
for finding information.

> More like this: A winery creates a series of winemaker notes and the
> like regarding their releases. They store that information in a
> repository in microformat or vinoXML form. My retail client
> "subscribes" to their "syndicated" information and renders the
> resulting "feed" on their site.
>

I really like this example since it's exactly what I would like to see
too. Just as you would like to use the winemaker's tasting notes for
your retail client, I too would like to use the winemaker's tasting
notes on my site. I am aggregating wine related content from all types
of wine sites, including winery web sites, and providing access to the
information through a search engine. When I run across a web page or RSS
item that is formatted with microformats, I can derive much more meaning
from it than a page that is just text.

A key difference between using microformats and vinoXML in this case,
though, is that with microformats you're simply annotating your markup
and not creating/maintaining/storing an separate representation of the
content. The content and microformat are one in the same.

> While this *could* be done with blog content (ie, the mashup), I think
> there may be other forms of syndication that will be considered and my
> hunch is that something like vinoXML will work better than the
> microFormat. Time will tell.
>

Yep, time will tell. In my mind it all boils down to the quality of the
tools made available to content providers. XML has been around for a
long time now but has only had limited mainstream success. Perhaps the
most successful use of XML today is RSS. But why has RSS been so
successful? Blogging tools are the reason. Bloggers don't need to
understand HTML, XML or RSS to blog. The tools take care of it. Can the
same thing happen in the wine industry? Sure. But we need to build the
tools to enable end-users and content providers to unlock the
information buried in web pages and traditional walled gardens.

I'm not sure what format will win but I am partial to microformats
because I think the barrier to adoption is less than that of a separate
and, at least on the surface, more complicated format. I just wish a
format, any format, would get some traction. Hopefully this group can
start to change that?

-James

http://www.scrugy.com

[wineo...@gmail.com]

Thanks, again, James; this thread has turned into an interesting
little conversation!

Any other takes on the subject before we push it further? One of the
problems with these asynchronous "conversation", as opposed to the
chat we will have Thursday, is that with people spread out all over
the globe, you don't have a good feel for who has read what or if you
are moving ahead too fast or too slow.

[Gregoire Japiot]

I just notice that there's an error in the announcement: it seems to
be 12:00 pm for GMT, instead of 12:00 am (1 am on Friday, March 9th in
France).
So, next time for me, but I'm eager to read about this chat as the
first discussion here concerning microformats tastes promising.

[ideadude]

I might be a bit late, but looking forward to it.

[wine...@gmail.com]

On Mar 8, 4:36 am, "Gregoire Japiot" <gjap...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just notice that there's an error in the announcement: it seems to
> be 12:00 pm for GMT, instead of 12:00 am (1 am on Friday, March 9th in
> France).

I'm not sure where you got the "pm" Gregoire but ithe chat will start
at midnight GMT so it's 01:00 for you Friday morning. I know it's late/
early your time so you will not be on this one but I will try to move
the next chat to an earlier time so you and others in Europe will not
have to stay up so late.

Cheers,
--
Tim

[wineo...@gmail.com]

Chat Follow-up:

I found the chat to be very informative and fast paced. There were a
number of references and links mentioned and displayed and I look
forward to following up on those links and some of the ideas at a less
hectic pace.

When can we expect to see the transcript posted?

Regards,

Ward Bell
Wineonline Minnesota
(Pre-Alpha Development Stage Venture)