Response to inquiry from new member - and an update for all

[Carl Scheider]

Just received this note:

just saw melted siding on my home built by K. Hovnanian in 2004. I'm being told by builder that they have no responsibility because of the year my house was built. KHov did arrange for melted siding to be fixed going back 7 years ago--not sure why they no longer accept responsibility. One neighbor said the problem was the screen that KHov put on the neighbors windows, so they also replaced those screens. At least one house in this 55+ community has experienced damage for the second time. Is there a class action suit against KHov at this time?

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More info here:  https://www.sites.google.com/site/windowsmeltingsiding/

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You should talk with a lawyer. Or do some legal snooping on your own.

Normally the builder will only warranty construction for a very limited period. Typically one year. If they are continuing to work and build homes in the area, they may do more than that to keep up a good business reputation. Our builder - Pulte - did so for multiple years, and through multiple attempts to repair the siding and replace the windows.  You state law may have some extended warranties. For example, here in MN foundation walls are warranted for 10 years by state law.  Not much else is however.

A screen will NOT cause the problem. It might actually help a little - but that has not been proven to my satisfaction.

The problem is that the windows are NOT FLAT - they are convex, they create a magnifying glass. If the curvature is extreme, the vinyl siding will be melted in one season of normal sunlight. If the curvature is less, it may take a bit longer. If the siding reflection occurs only for a small portion of a day for a small portion of the year it will also take longer.

The windows manufacturer say that it is not their problem. They say the windows collapse after they are installed. That is NOT true. We have had FLAT windows replacing the bad ones and they have not changed in over 10 years.

One glass company assures us that ALL of their window glass is shipped flat. But we still had some melting windows installed. So we check all new windows.

I am not aware of any class action suit against a glass company or window manufacturer.  I did hear about one against the vinyl people - but they are really not at fault, and I think that will not be a success.

Anyone with additional information?  Thanks.

Carl Scheider

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We are all in this together - and I'm pulling for you.

All means ALL - humankind and the planet.  

Stay Safe.

[Carl Scheider]

Now that is creative. And also glad to hear that the Turf Guard Film solved the problem.

Can you send me a link to anything?  I think our fire chief would be interested in this as well.

AND many others.  Great idea!  SUPER idea.

Carl Scheider

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We are all in this together - and I'm pulling for you.

All means ALL - humankind and the planet.  

Stay Safe.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mirabelle Vista <1442...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Response to inquiry from new member - and an update for all
To: Carl Scheider <carlsc...@gmail.com>

Local Fire Chief and Fire Prevention Officer in cooperation with Chief Building Inspector cited the offending neighbor for Allowing a Fire Hazard .  Builder was out of the picture due to age of houses (15 years)

Neighbor arranged to have Turf Guard film applied and it stopped the magnifying effect.

Repairs to our house are underway now. (September 2021). Offending neighbor held responsible for cost of repairs 

Suggest anyone else having this problem call your local Fire Department and Building Official.

Our case is more detailed than this but the important point is we found help from our local Fire Department and that was not mentioned by anyone earlier 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2021, at 5:17 PM, Carl Scheider <carlsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Carl Scheider]

Here's some good news - a local fire department has declared the windows a fire hazard and held the owner responsible for repairs!  Amazing! What a good idea.

Carl Scheider

----------------------

We are all in this together - and I'm pulling for you.

All means ALL - humankind and the planet.  

Stay Safe.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Mirabelle Vista <1442...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 4:35 PM
Subject: Re: Response to inquiry from new member - and an update for all
To: Carl Scheider <carlsc...@gmail.com>

Local Fire Chief and Fire Prevention Officer in cooperation with Chief Building Inspector cited the offending neighbor for Allowing a Fire Hazard .  Builder was out of the picture due to age of houses (15 years)

Neighbor arranged to have Turf Guard film applied and it stopped the magnifying effect.

Repairs to our house are underway now. (September 2021). Offending neighbor held responsible for cost of repairs 

Suggest anyone else having this problem call your local Fire Department and Building Official.

Our case is more detailed than this but the important point is we found help from our local Fire Department and that was not mentioned by anyone earlier 

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2021, at 5:17 PM, Carl Scheider <carlsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kathleen Russell]

Carl,

Thank you for this additional information from Mirabelle Vista.  I just have one comment.   In this 55+ community, KHovnanian’s inspector concluded that the reason for the magnification of the sun’s rays was due to the type of screens that the builder put on all of our windows, not the window itself.  Over seven years ago when several homeowners noticed that their siding melted, KHov fixed the siding and replaced the neighbor’s existing screens with those with a finer mesh.   I spoke with one neighbor that had this “fix” 7 years ago and, apparently, changing the screens worked—no more melted siding.   I called KHov and found out that, apparently, there was a time limit during which KHov admitted their culpability.

 

I understand about warranties, but don’t they usually contain wording about normal wear and tear?   The reason concluded by KHov themselves 7+ years ago was that the builder-grade screens they installed in this community caused the melted siding on several homes—not normal wear and tear.  KHov further concluded that the remedy was to replace the screens with those having a finer mesh.   Melted siding will continue to be a problem until KHov addresses it by installing new screens on all of our homes.   I had no idea that there was siding damage 7+ years ago and that KHov knew about it.     Damage to my house could have been avoided had KHov made the problem known to all of us and offered a solution years ago.    I spoke with a realtor who said that, in his experience, seeing the melted siding led to potential home buyers not even wanting to look at the house.   The reality is that we either have to put out thousands of dollars for new siding, or reduce the selling price significantly.     

 

I’m still confused because the posts point to the windows being the culprit while, in this community, changing the screens seems to have resolved the problem.  Be that as it may, I still believe that the builder is responsible for paying for the damage and the remedy.  I intend to seek legal advice.

 

Thank you for your hard work!

 

 

Kathleen Russell

Nothing in the World Is More Dangerous Than Sincere Ignorance and Conscientious Stupidy...Martin Luther King



All means ALL - humankind and the planet.  

Stay Safe.

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[Carl Scheider]

Well, in my humble opinion - it is the windows - not the screens. They managed to get screens that would reduce the bounce enough to stop melting the siding. It sounds like this turb guard id also going to work - much to my utter amazement and pleasure. LOTS of posts on the internet think it is something else - the windows are huge magnifying glasses. They can actually melt car mirrors, and set lawn furniture on fire!  Scary.

I measured the heat from those windows - it's over 200 degrees.  You can see the spotlight effect.

I still have one window that does that - but it only shines on a bit of grass that is perpetually brown!

I am NOT replacing this window for that.

The windows people know what it is - they are just dodging responsibility.

I think the approach of using the fire department is GREAT.

I really would like to get the FD info so I could send it to our fire department. 

Many, many thanks. 

Carl Scheider

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We are all in this together - and I'm pulling for you.

All means ALL - humankind and the planet.  

Stay Safe.