Re: Fwd: Energy without borders: New Scientist article

[dave andrews]

Yep...Mark and I and others debated this some time ago, and it was clear to me that Mark's analysi shows Desertec is extremely expensive for Europe. Dispersed wind plus supergrid is a much lower cost option as demonstrated by the Czisch optimisation

On 10 January 2012 10:04, Barrett, Mark <mark.b...@ucl.ac.uk> wrote:

I agree. And the economics not so good. Attached is a commentary.

Best wishes

Mark

Dr Mark Barrett, Senior lecturer
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-----Original Message-----
From: energy-disc...@googlegroups.com [mailto:energy-disc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Sears
Sent: 10 January 2012 08:54
To: energy-disc...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Robert French; Claverton Supergrid group; Roger Faulkner; g.cz...@transnational-renewables.org; mohamed; Andrew Morrison; Phil Griffin
Subject: Re: Fwd: Energy without borders: New Scientist article

Hello all

The way I read Roger's comment was that Desertec are following a model of large (solar) power plants selling their power in large quantities, built in combination with other large power plants (i.e. natural gas, I think, in North Africa), as opposed to pursuing distributed renewables in Europe.  If the N. African solar electricity suppliers cut off their supply to Europe, it would feel to Europeans similar to when Russia restricts its natural gas supply - the fact that the power we aren't getting is renewable won't be much comfort as we will still be at the mercy of external agencies.

Ed Sears

T4 Sustainability


On 10 January 2012 06:52, dave andrews <tynin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 9 January 2012 23:38, Robert French <french...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Roger
>> This is correct and why I was concerned in the direction PV was
>> heading as it uses high end petroleum products in manufacturing like
>> the EVA/LDPE which is a spin off ethylene process. This is'nt so bad
>> as eventually ethylene could be produced synthetically without using
>> crude but is not a clean technology overall, but then neither are
>> iPhones/iPads (Samsung etc.), but they are accelerating efficiency progress.
>> I am trying to get my ex. PDO colleague in Oman to trumpet the wind
>> cause......Mohamed Maskri and our colleague Phil Griffin in Kuwait/Germany.
>> Gregor's Down Draft Wind Towers, which should also be good in Dubai
>> as theses are the traditional forms used for air-conditioning before
>> the presence of GE/York.
>> I think we need to draw on Andrew Morrison's contacts with DEWA to
>> lobby the HVDC cause at the same time to enable these BIG ideas.
>>
>> kind regards
>> Bob
>>
>> Dubai unveils 1,000MW solar park plan
>>
>> 9 January 2012, 14:10 GMT | By Verity Ratcliffe
>>
>> The entire programme is expected to cost about $35bn
>>
>> Dubai Electricity and Water Authority (Dewa) has unveiled plans for
>> the Mohammed bin Rashid al-Maktoum solar park, a 1,000MW
>> multi-technology solar project.
>>
>> The megaproject will cover 48 square kilometres at Seih al-Dahal,
>> located south east of Dubai city. A collection of facilities using
>> photovoltaic (PV), concentrated solar power (CSP) trough and solar
>> power tower technology will feature at the site.
>>
>> According to Waleed Salman, Dewa's vice-president for strategy and
>> business development, the project will be built in phases and it is
>> not yet clear how much each section of the project will account for,
>> although he
>> says: "more than 50 per cent - perhaps 70 per cent - will come from CSP".
>>
>> The first facility to be developed at the site will be a 10MW
>> photovoltaic solar project. At a cost of about AED120m ($33m), the
>> project will be financed on balance sheet by six government bodies
>> headed by the Supreme Council of Energy.
>>
>> A tender for engineering, procurement and construction (EPC)
>> contractors will be launched. The chief executive and
>> secretary-general of the Supreme Energy Council, Nejib Zaafrani, said
>> that an award is expected to be made by June. with work commencing
>> shortly afterwards and first power produced by the fourth quarter of
>> 2013. The power plant will be connected to Dewa's grid.
>>
>> According to Dewa, the solar park will require a total investment of
>> about AED126bn. While the first phase will be government-procured,
>> subsequent projects could be financed by the private sector.
>> According to Salman, this could take the form of independent power
>> projects (IPPs) in a similar structure already employed for traditional power plants.
>>
>> Dewa has also said that it intends to establish a clean energy fund,
>> which will be a vehicle for private sector finance for new renewable
>> energy projects, including projects in the Mohammed bin Rashid
>> al-Maktoum solar park.
>>
>> Speaking at the launch of the solar park, Dewa officials commented on
>> the potential for the introduction of a tariff mechanisms to promote
>> renewable energy. "We are considering feed-in tariffs [for renewable
>> energy]," said Zaafrani.
>>
>> Dubai currently has around 4.5MW of installed solar power capacity.
>> The largest project is at Meydan and has a capacity of 750kW. Other
>> projects are at Jebel Ali and the Palm Jumeirah.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 1:51 AM, Roger Faulkner
>> <roger_r...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I enjoyed reading your work. Something you said rang particularly true:
>>> >I don't know why Desertec Initiative focuses on solar plants, but a
>>> >guess is that they don't really foster a quick transition to
>>> >alternative  sources, since they represent the industrial groups
>>> >and utilities that also  run the existing traditional plants.
>>>
>>> I call that a "diversionary tactic." This is essentially similar to
>>> George W. Bush backing the "hydrogen economy" with billions in
>>> federal research during his presidency, while leaving automobile
>>> efficiency standards, energy taxes, and incentives for electric &
>>> hybrid vehicles
>>> alone: point far out into the future, to an imagined
>>> paradise....like a matador fooling the bull...
>>>
>>> Roger Faulkner, Founder
>>> Ballistic Breaker Company (http://www.ballisticbreakers.com)
>>> Electric Pipeline Corporation (http://www.elpipes.com/) cell phone
>>> #: 617-549-9492
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Dr. Gregor Czisch <g.cz...@transnational-renewables.org>
>>> To: Dave Andrews <tynin...@gmail.com>; Roger Faulkner
>>> <roger_r...@yahoo.com>; Robert French <french...@gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Monday, January 9, 2012 7:59 AM
>>>
>>> Subject: Fwd: Energy without borders: New Scientist article
>>>
>>> Dear Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I thought you might be interested in the new Article
>>>
>>> Energy without borders
>>>
>>> http://www.energyrealities.org/detail/energy-without-borders/erp01A9
>>> 9BCF7CA12E960
>>>
>>> by New Scientist. I contributed with an interview of roughly two
>>> hours to it. The interviewer was MacGregor Campbell and the writer was Helen Knight.
>>> The date of publication must have been December 2011. I have not yet
>>> been able to figure that out properly. But I have got the link just
>>> since a few day from Helen Knight of the New Scientist.
>>>
>>> Some parts are a bit misleading. Therefore it might be helpful to
>>> read also the somewhat older Articles:
>>>
>>> BWEA - Real Power Magazin i Wind holds key to European super grid,
>>> Oktober 2009 Financial Times i Gregor Czisch on the super-grid,
>>> 13.07.2010
>>>
>>> Best regards and a happy new year,
>>>
>>> Gregor Czisch
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Dr.-Ing. Dipl.-Phys. Gregor Czisch
>>> Transnational Renewables Consulting
>>> Hermannstr.3 / 34117 Kassel / Germany Mobil +49 (0) 163 826 7921 Fax 
>>> +49 (0) 561 103095 Startseite zu einigen Folien, Daten und
>>> Veröffentlichungen
>>> http://transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/Home.htm
>>> Vorträge und Veröffentlichungen / Presentations and Publications
>>>
>>> http://www.transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/veroeffentlich
>>> ungen.html
>>> Medienspiegel / In The Media
>>> http://www.transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/Medienspiegel.
>>> html Ausgesuchte Veröffentlichungen / Selected Publications
>>> Dissertation: Szenarien zur zukünftigen Stromversorgung -
>>> Kostenoptimierte Variationen zur Versorgung Europas und seiner
>>> Nachbarn mit Strom aus erneuerbaren Energien
>>>
>>>      
>>> https://kobra.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/handle/urn:nbn:de:hebis:34-20
>>> 0604119596
>>>
>>>      
>>> https://kobra.bibliothek.uni-kassel.de/bitstream/urn:nbn:de:hebis:34
>>> -200604119596/1/DissVersion0502.pdf
>>> Low Cost but Totally Renewable Electricity Supply for a Huge Supply
>>> Area
>>>
>>>      
>>> http://transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/projekte/LowCostEu
>>> ropElSup_revised_for_AKE_2006.pdf Effects of Large-Scale
>>> Distribution of Wind Energy in and around Europe
>>>
>>>      
>>> http://transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/projekte/Risoe2003
>>> 05.pdf Global Renewable Energy Potential and Approaches to its Use
>>>
>>>      
>>> http://transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/folien/magdeb03090
>>> 1/overview.html High wind power penetration within huge catchment
>>> areas shown in an European example
>>>
>>>      
>>> http://transnational-renewables.org/Gregor_Czisch/projekte/awea_2001
>>> _czisch_ernst.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Andrews
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>
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